Not understanding the hate for Consular story

[Vicentegrev]

So with 12x upon us I've been exploring the stories of classes I would've otherwise not been interested in playing, chief among them the Consular. My progress so far is Tatooine finished, waiting to start Alderaan.

 

I gotta say I don't get it, why all the hate for this story? If you ask a group of people what the best stories are no one mentions the Consular. Conversely if you ask which are the worst you will frequently get Consular as an answer, and I just don't get it.

 

the storys slower, yes, much more sedate, and not at all whiz-bang like the Trooper was and what the Jedi Knight is turning out to be. Admittedly I haven't finished Act 1 so should I be expecting the other shoe to drop on Act 2? What was it that people hated? Is it the 'boredom factor' or does it get silly in later Acts?

[DogeDandolo]

I like the Consular story a lot. Very satisfying to play the diplomat. Diplomat with a lightsabre, that is.

[psandak]

the storys slower, yes, much more sedate, and not at all whiz-bang like the Trooper was and what the Jedi Knight is turning out to be.

 

You have hit on part of it right there.

 

Another issue is that the story does not make a lot of sense when you go "in opposition" to the intent.

 

 

i.e. in chapter one you are going after "rogue" jedi masters with the intent of curing them (you have gone through an intense trial to obtain the ability to cure them). So if upon encountering these masters, you choose the DS option and kill them, why did you bother learning how to cure them?

 

 

Admittedly I haven't finished Act 1 so should I be expecting the other shoe to drop on Act 2? What was it that people hated? Is it the 'boredom factor' or does it get silly in later Acts?

 

Not boring per se or silly, but

 

 

you are assigned to be a diplomat and all too often engage in "aggressive negotiations" (sorry for the PT reference)

 

[Sarathis]

The Consular story is a rollercoaster in terms of enjoyment, at least for myself. It starts off slowly and gradually builds up as Act 1 continues, getting more and more interesting. Then it drops into mediocrity only to rise in interest again as Act 2 starts, so on and so forth.

 

I don't think the story is bad so much as it is weak. The premise is good but the actual execution of the story is poorly done. Psandak mentioned a good example of that in his post. From the beginning of the story you aren't given a very good reason for your character's motivations, especially if you're Dark Side. It's just assumed you're an all around swell guy who loves being self-sacrificing... otherwise why would you be a Jedi!? Oh, and you're very close to your teacher Yuon, who taught you so much even though she totally didn't teach you anything. Inconsistencies and under-developed plot lines like those take away from the overall decent idea behind the storyline and leave one feeling unfulfilled overall.

 

The story does pick up again in the beginning of Act 2 and we're finally given a sense that the Consular is an important figure in the galaxy with heavy responsibilities. By Act 3, though, the plot line started in Act 2 is set aside not even half finished as you try to do other... stuff... that you're told is important. It's all very vaguely presented and disjointed and, ultimately, not very interesting.

 

There are some very cool tie ins with the Jedi Knight storyline and the basic premise is still a cool one. There's actually a lot to like, especially in Act 2. Many of the NPCs you become involved with are interesting and they actually stick with you for a good portion of the storyline. I'm also a big fan of Nadia Grell and she's a part of the story long before she joins you as a Companion.

 

The story as a whole is just very poorly executed. You're never given a lot of focus or motivation and throughout the storyline it feels as though there's no sense of leadership from your character. In every other class storyline save the Inquisitor's (who suffers from a lot of the same weaknesses the Consular story has) there's a feeling of being accomplished and making your own destiny. Even if you're following someone else's orders you're still a bad ***. A lot of the Consular story is just reactionary, though. When I finally finished the last mission I was just kind of like, "Oh... um, OK."

 

In the end I didn't think the Consular story was a bad one. It just wasn't a very good one. Wasted potential, really.

[errant_knight]

People fail to look at the intent behind the stories, so they want them all to play the same. IMO, that would be less interesting. The consular is a story about diplomacy and politics. I enjoyed it a lot. It's only real downfall it that you can't play it darkside believably. In the knight story, while some dark choices are just petulant, there are many others with are completely logical, even 'better' choices if one keeps one's goal in mind. In the consular, that is rarely the case. it's simply impossiblle to believe that your behavior would be tolerated in the context of the story.

 

I agree with some of the critique about motivation. They really needed to establish more of a bond with your teacher and/or give the character some personal reasons to be willling to make a sacrifice, ones that would be compelling to a darkside character as well.

 

I disagree about the inquisitor story. it's one of straight up personal survival and it does that in a very interesting and compelling way.

Edited November 9, 2014 by errant_knight

[Daxy]

the thing 12exp has done is to keep me familiar with the class story

on many of my toons i would play a bit and then play another so when i would actually get around to a class mission (all the missions were just things to finish to clearout cobwebby quest logs on toons i hadn't played in months) i'd forgotten what was happening in the first place

 

the consular story has benefited greatly from the 12exp since you can chain together the whole thing in a few play sessions- at least from my point of view

Edited November 9, 2014 by Daxy

[Vicentegrev]

the thing 12exp has done is to keep me familiar with the class story

on many of my toons i would play a bit and then play another so when i would actually get around to a class mission (all the missions were just things to finish to clearout cobwebby quest logs on toons i hadn't played in months) i'd forgotten what was happening in the first place

 

the consular story has benefited greatly from the 12exp since you can chain together the whole thing in a few play sessions- at least from my point of view

 

I can see that. I feel that if I was playing the Consular more normally the very subdued nature of the story would overshadowed by some of the planet mission lines which could be in part a source of the criticism to the story.

 

in any case I'm looking forward to finishing it

[JLazarillo]

Consular is honestly my favorite story on the Republic side. It was indeed somewhat awkward on if you tried to go the darker path, and doubly frustrating because there really are threads that could've completely justified a more "dark side" approach to Chapter 1 (and from after chapter 1, it stops being as much a problem anyway), and the Warrior story, which was also mostly great, had a similar sort of problem (albeit with sort of the opposite approach, feeling more awkward for Light characters and encouraging Dark).

[DomiSotto]

Consular's is mt favorite story. I was particularly impressed that in Beta the Consular actually was weakened by choosing the LS in Chapter I. Unfortunately, they took it out, so the story was significantly damaged by it imo, because the temptation of Darkness was not as obvious. I love the story, I love the companions, I love the building momentum. If I could only have Zenith' romance I doubt I would have played any other class, lol. All and all, a big fan.

 

Having mixed impression with Inq right now, just doing a 12xXP run with all my Imps. Got as far as the end of Taris. It feels that the Inq's personality is more set in stone than any other class I tried so far. And the story is very uneven, and doesn't tie in with the planets so much.... and another padwan-naping?! I just did that with SW, lol!

[menofhorror]

Counsular is just a pile of wasted potential.

Don´t get my wrong. I lked Act 2 and Voss and Belsavis were great.

 

But all in all just weakly executed. Oh and in chapter one finale your dark side choice is negated lol. The game thought that there would be no dark side counsulars.

[Darth_Advent]

Rumor has it that the author of the Consular class story was a essentially an amateur who was one of BioWare's newest writers hired fresh out of school into an internship, and that seems perfectly believable to me.

 

It's not that the Consular story is bad in and of itself and it's evident that a respectable amount of homework was done in making it fit into the spirit of the old Expanded Universe. The problem is that it was written like a novella for a character that was destined to be a "Light Side" character and overwhelmingly fails to account for the compelling variety of choices that are supposed to be part of a good story-driven RPG.

 

As lots of people explained before me, playing a Dark Side consular doesn't result in an immersive departure from the Jedi norm. Instead it feels more like you're a galactic troll who gets away with an absurd amount of corruption because the player hacked the game files.

[SithKoriandr]

Let me first say, I enjoyed the Consular story. Consular and Assassin both in fact, where I'm now playing both stories again due to 12x XP.

 

However, playing through it the second time, it made me realize it's biggest flaw is all the enemies you face.

 

First you're out trying to get to all the Master's who have been corrupted. However, the end choice is "Do I kill them to just kill them" or "Do I not kill them because it really wasn't their fault for the atrocities they committed"

 

It really wasn't their fault they committed such acts. It was really someone else in control of them. To just kill them means you really are just being dark side to be dark side.

 

Then we get to the Children of the Emperor. More enemies who are that way because of someone else. The ones who revel in it, you just kill off. Those with a bit more background you go back to the same as before.

 

Consular just doesn't have that ONE real enemy. Even if it was one who may have been something akin to Vader. Do you choose to redeem them or do you rightfully deliver justice unto them.

[Galdos]

I consider the starting planet storyline for the Consular to be the worse of all the characters in the game. After that, the Consular's story shoots up for me.

 

I found the story far more enjoyable than the Bounty Hunter (the worse in my eyes), Inquisitor, or Smuggler.

 

I never understood all the hate for it either (with the exception of that starting planet)

[Master-Nala]

I consider the starting planet storyline for the Consular to be the worse of all the characters in the game. After that, the Consular's story shoots up for me.

 

I found the story far more enjoyable than the Bounty Hunter (the worse in my eyes), Inquisitor, or Smuggler.

 

I never understood all the hate for it either (with the exception of that starting planet)

 

I actually thought the Tython story was excellent. All the Lore and history of the Jedi interspersed with stopping a rogue force user.

 

The Consular story has a ton of those moments. I really don't get the hate either. I see the story as very similar to everyone's favorite, the Agent. Only your final enemy is about a thousand times more impressive than Hunter.

 

The IA story makes much less sense and the 'space Illuminati' as the big bad left me flat, but to each his own.

[Cawyden]

I think it really helps to be able to concentrate on the class story thanks to the 12xp event. I leveled my second consular (shadow, first time was sage healer) and he is now my favourite toon ever - and I liked the story much more compared to when I played it for the first time. I can't say it is the best story, but a really good one in my opinion. But I do play light side and not dark side.

[errant_knight]

Consular is honestly my favorite story on the Republic side. It was indeed somewhat awkward on if you tried to go the darker path, and doubly frustrating because there really are threads that could've completely justified a more "dark side" approach to Chapter 1 (and from after chapter 1, it stops being as much a problem anyway), and the Warrior story, which was also mostly great, had a similar sort of problem (albeit with sort of the opposite approach, feeling more awkward for Light characters and encouraging Dark).

 

I disagree on the warrior story. Many of the LS choices are the most effective option if you're playing a pragmatic character with a sense of honor. The only time you have to pick some choices that are slightly awkward is if you're going for 100% lightside. You can get lightside 3 or 4 without any difficulties in justifying your actions.

 

If your character is 'rawr, no mercy', then yeah, it might not work, but a character who sees the empire on a no win path which must change? Easy, peasy.

Edited November 10, 2014 by errant_knight

[Morrolan]

I actually thought the Tython story was excellent. All the Lore and history of the Jedi interspersed with stopping a rogue force user.

 

I agree about Tython but after that it falls down for the first chapter, like others have said if you want to play dark side it doesn't make sense.

 

Trooper is the worst story for me.

[DomiSotto]

Chapter 1 of Consular gives the strongest motivation of all to select DS choices – self-preservation. You are supposed to die if you keep using the Shielding ability. You are sacrificing your immense Force pool every time you Shield. In beta, I am told, the character was so weakened if s/he pursued LS only, Consular became unplayable solo. That was absolutely brilliant. I wish they borrowed some of the Mask of the Betrayer mechanics to make it viable.

 

I also think that the unseen presence of both the First Son and the traitorous nature of the Emperor’s Children was great as the Enemy. I spent most of the Chapter 2 and 3 thinking that my Consular was the First Son. Until I came to help someone out with dat fight on Corellia on my Smuggler J And I was glad she was not.

 

I loved that my Consular spoke up a few times in more than a single-sentence bit, and well, sounded intelligent.

 

I also loved that most of the characters in the Consular story were gray-oriented, had their own goals and ambitions, and their stories were all opened to the bigger future, and did not end with their joining the Consular.

 

Lol, whenever I see one of these threads, I want to make another Consular immediately and try out the Shadow. J

[Yezzan]

The inquisitor story was good. I wanted to kill Thanaton so badly, it hurts!

 

My first toon was a Sage..... ermmm... i stopped at level 23. And it is now the last toon that i have to level on the republic side....

 

Since I haven't done the counselor to end-game, I can only say that Yuon is the worst jedi master. She never though me anything because she was out of her mind! The inquisitor story was much better because I wanted to kill Thanaton whereas with the counselor, I didn't want to save Yuon.

[DogeDandolo]

Yuon is the worst jedi master. She never though me anything because she was out of her mind!

 

So ... exactly like Zash, Baras and Orgus?

[DomiSotto]

Oh, I am exactly the opposite way. In the Inquisitor story I am working through now, I kindda lost count and mix up all those endless people I need to kill because by some reason they are after my tender buttocks. I feel like a cornered animal.

 

In the Consular story I felt immensely powerful because I could chose self-sacrifice and offer mercy, and say "I t is only my duty."It was hugely appealing, way more so than just killing another guy and the guy after him in a power-building succession.

 

With Yuon, well, at first it meant I would see Attros Finn, whom I really liked (and coudn't flirt with, bad BioWARE, bad...), and then I got sucked into the love story there, and then she became irrelevant because I started meeting all those exotic wonderful quirky characters through the Rift Alliance (and finally got Zenith!), and then the mystery of the First Son started... awesome!

 

Inquisitor story is Okay, but just so much like every other game I've played. You are a descendant, have huge power, and you go kill those who want to kill you because you are so special. Jon Irenicus all over again.

Edited November 11, 2014 by DomiSotto

[QuiDonJorn]

Rumor has it that the author of the Consular class story was a essentially an amateur who was one of BioWare's newest writers hired fresh out of school into an internship, and that seems perfectly believable to me.

 

It's not that the Consular story is bad in and of itself and it's evident that a respectable amount of homework was done in making it fit into the spirit of the old Expanded Universe. The problem is that it was written like a novella for a character that was destined to be a "Light Side" character and overwhelmingly fails to account for the compelling variety of choices that are supposed to be part of a good story-driven RPG.

 

As lots of people explained before me, playing a Dark Side consular doesn't result in an immersive departure from the Jedi norm. Instead it feels more like you're a galactic troll who gets away with an absurd amount of corruption because the player hacked the game files.

 

Yeah, I kinda figured that was the case.

It is really like the author and the dialog choice people didn't talk to each other at all and none of it makes any sense if you don't play it lightside.

[DomiSotto]

You do realize that writing 2 drastically diverting paths for a game that initially planned to go on with the Class story into Chapter 4 etc would mean that you will start with 2 completely different characters at the next turn? Say one is a shiny Jedi heroine, and the second - an Imperial plant in the Jedi Order? You will inevitably get railroaded eventually, because you cannot keep this up forever, as honoring every junction makes the further story arc more and more complicated, and leads to basically dealing with 2 classes instead of one.

 

No other class I played allowed for a dramatic difference in LS/DS play and outcomes.

 

You are playing a Jedi after all.

Edited November 11, 2014 by DomiSotto

[Alec_Fortescue]

I'll tell you where the hate comes from: if people suddenly like Consular story during 12xp it means that all those side quests you're forced to do completely ruin it, like they do for many other stories. Instead of being focused on the story you need to do dozens of other quests, meet and talk to gazillion of other characters and eventually you're just following the quest markers without knowing where, to who and for what you're headed.

[SithKoriandr]

You do realize that writing 2 drastically diverting paths for a game that initially planned to go on with the Class story into Chapter 4 etc would mean that you will start with 2 completely different characters at the next turn? Say one is a shiny Jedi heroine, and the second - an Imperial plant in the Jedi Order? You will inevitably get railroaded eventually, because you cannot keep this up forever, as honoring every junction makes the further story arc more and more complicated, and leads to basically dealing with 2 classes instead of one.

 

No other class I played allowed for a dramatic difference in LS/DS play and outcomes.

 

You are playing a Jedi after all.

 

Well, for the Knight, don't you get to see some NPCS again, if you didn't kill them off/saved them before?

 

I still think the problem is Consular didn't have a truely evil opponent that could be redeemed or killed because they were rightfully evil as well.

 

Instead Consular gets enemies who are all made evil by mind alteration. None of them were really responsible for their actions. Rather, they need to be saved, and then learn to live with the acts they committed while being mentally screwed with by a more powerful force user (and some may be able to live with it just fine "Wasn't me who did it. Was the Emperor!"