Jedi Wizard Returns

[x_Boots_x]

Only people that are obsessed with or care about WOW or being compared to WOW would care about this, Wizard is a perfectly "Star Wars" term used with Obi Wan in Ep 4, so who cares?, the term wizard has been used in one form or another for hundreds of years to describe exactly what a Jedi is and does.

[LordMatthewS]

I agree with you. Star wars isn't some fantasy magic, it's Sci-Fi!

[DarthDymond]

I agree with you. Star wars isn't some fantasy magic, it's Sci-Fi!

Which is why everyone was overjoyed when they introduced the scientific element of midichlorians to the previously purely mystical concept of the Force, right?

 

I don't personally think there's much point in subdividing "sci-fi" into science fiction, speculative fiction, science fantasy, etc, etc, etc, the way some authors and fans do, but if one were to go that route then Star Wars is about as clear-cut a case of space fantasy as you're going to get (short of He-Man I guess).

Edited November 22, 2014 by DarthDymond

[Silverspar]

Jedi Wizard(SW 7 Spoiler Alert)

 

Seriously, I hate that terminology and it just doesnt belong here, there is rarely any magic in star wars, I never liked fantasy.

 

Wizard? Seriously?

 

Do the writers pay attention to what happened with swtor when they decided to name one of their jedi advanced classes jedi wizard. Majority wanted it changed, and it changed but the wizard returns in another form, in the movie apparently.

 

This is going to drive away a ton of sci-fi fanatics.

 

/facepalm

 

Script= /facepalm times 9001

 

Rarely any magic in Star Wars? Did you forget the whole Force thing? Or perhaps that you forgot that the basic premise of Star wars is a heroic knight saving princesses from evil wizards? Seriously, saying there hardly any magic in Star wars you would have to throw the Force out of the story completely.

 

And let's not get into the fact how completely wrong all the "science" in Star Wars actually is. Calling a Jedi a wizard is just as apt as calling them a sage since they are using powers that are pretty much magic. They aren't anything a human being could do, take years or decades of dedication, training and research and often find themselves locked away in isolated towers studying under masters. Exactly what wizards do. Try as you might saying there is no relation is just trying to blind yourself to the facts.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Silverspar

[Rhyltran]

Rarely any magic in Star Wars? Did you forget the whole Force thing? Or perhaps that you forgot that the basic premise of Star wars is a heroic knight saving princesses from evil wizards? Seriously, saying there hardly any magic in Star wars you would have to throw the Force out of the story completely.

 

And let's not get into the fact how completely wrong all the "science" in Star Wars actually is. Calling a Jedi a wizard is just as apt as calling them a sage since they are using powers that are pretty much magic. They aren't anything a human being could do, take years or decades of dedication, training and research and often find themselves locked away in isolated towers studying under masters. Exactly what wizards do. Try as you might saying there is no relation is just trying to blind yourself to the facts.

 

The rules of the force come across as more psychic abilities than magic.

[Khantalas]

The rules of the force come across as more psychic abilities than magic.

 

Psychic abilities are basically magic with some pseudosciencey makeup.

[Silverspar]

The rules of the force come across as more psychic abilities than magic.

 

You realize, that's magic to. Plus you must be forgetting that whole Force lightning bit. Seriously, Star Wars is Science FANTASY, everything from the Force to how technology works is all fantastical. It's a story with wizards and knights and princesses in dark towers, the only difference is they made the setting with a "futuristic" backdrop.

 

The Force is very much magic trying to say it's mind manipulation is so much of a stretch that it is beyond silly. Especially since Jedi describe the Force as being everywhere and apart of everything, much like how magic in games today describe magical energy as mana a force around everyone.

 

So no, Wizard is an apt name, and Force is magic. Plain and simple. Trying to deny that simple fact because you think they are using psychic powers when the Jedi have clearly stated that is NOT what it is, nor do they have the ability to read minds, is just reaching.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Silverspar

[Rhyltran]

You realize, that's magic to. Plus you must be forgetting that whole Force lightning bit. Seriously, Star Wars is Science FANTASY, everything from the Force to how technology works is all fantastical. It's a story with wizards and knights and princesses in dark towers, the only difference is they made the setting with a "futuristic" backdrop.

 

The Force is very much magic trying to say it's mind manipulation is so much of a stretch that it is beyond silly. Especially since Jedi describe the Force as being everywhere and apart of everything, much like how magic in games today describe magical energy as mana a force around everyone.

 

So no, Wizard is an apt name, and Force is magic. Plain and simple. Trying to deny that simple fact because you think they are using psychic powers when the Jedi have clearly stated that is NOT what it is, nor do they have the ability to read minds, is just reaching.

 

I'm just saying the way it's worded makes me nervous. If Luke Skywalker starts throwing fireballs, casting curses, turning enemies into womprats I will wash my hands of disney's star wars.

[Jonoku]

Rarely any magic in Star Wars? Did you forget the whole Force thing? Or perhaps that you forgot that the basic premise of Star wars is a heroic knight saving princesses from evil wizards? Seriously, saying there hardly any magic in Star wars you would have to throw the Force out of the story completely.

 

And let's not get into the fact how completely wrong all the "science" in Star Wars actually is. Calling a Jedi a wizard is just as apt as calling them a sage since they are using powers that are pretty much magic. They aren't anything a human being could do, take years or decades of dedication, training and research and often find themselves locked away in isolated towers studying under masters. Exactly what wizards do. Try as you might saying there is no relation is just trying to blind yourself to the facts.

 

Sorry to break it to you but midichlorians are not magic mate, its a scientifically advanced genetic that enables you many powers.

 

Its not about a heroic character saving a princess from evil lol. Star Wars is about a battle between good midichlorian users and bad midichlorian users basically. Your just making up what you wish star wars could be. Since we are trying to change the genre of franchises, I mine as well work on a change of script for Harry Potter to make it sci-fi oriented and ruin the entire purpose of the story.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Jonoku

[Spartanik]

Sorry to break it to you but midichlorians are not magic mate, its a scientifically advanced genetic that enables you many powers.

 

Its not about a heroic character saving a princess from evil lol. Star Wars is about a battle between good midichlorian users and bad midichlorian users basically. Your just making up what you wish star wars could be. Since we are trying to change the genre of franchises, I mine as well work on a change of script for Harry Potter to make it sci-fi oriented and ruin the entire purpose of the story.

Sorry to break it to you but you dont know what midichlorians are.

They are not the force. They are only what alow living beaings be in touch with the force.

Go watch the Original triology, they cleary state it is a mystical field in the universe.

Basicaly its the physical, means wich taps the "mana" field.

 

And yes Star wars is a mixed bag of Fantastic sci fantasy, classic adventure, and science fiction. The force however is mostly magic in space by all means.

I mean you even have sith doing alchemy, and rituals, as he said there is fortresses, knights, princess, the first star wars movie was pretty much a classical saving the princess locked up in the evil fortress of doom, taking cues on the classical "hiden fortress" film of Akira Kurosawa, essencial at its core star wars is a gran homage to the japanese film maker ( wich Lucas, Spielberg, and Scorsese are gand fans), and many stuff were draw from Japanese themes, from japanese kabuki theatre, for instance to small words like jedi etc, and the concept of warrior monks, it was inspired in the oriental schemes as well. Lucas said that himself.

 

To put it bluntly he is not wrong in the assertion of fantastical-scy-fy. In wich Star wars cleary is and always have been. Sorcerers, Warriors, Sages, Wizards it is all part of it. Alec Guinesss played Obi wan as a old wizard / mentor figure, in wich he himself adimited he liked very much the concept.

[Khantalas]

Midichlorians are basically angels (they speak the will of the Force to people) to The Force's deity. That they live in your bloodstream and can be analyzed by a gizmo doesn't make them any less angels.

 

Remeber, science fiction isn't about the trappings of the story. It's about the story itself. You can have a science fiction story with magic crystals and flying carpets, and you can have a high "space" fantasy (science fantasy implies there is science in the Star Wars movies) with plasma rifles and interstellar flight.

[TheNahash]

Why are you guys arguing over semantics?

Wizards, Sorcerers, Warlocks, Mages, Witches, Force Users... call them what you like.

What difference does it really make whether midichlorians are the cause or the product of using the Force? Or what does it matter if the power the heroes have comes from the Force or Eru Ilúvatar?

 

OP, if you can train yourself to do Force Choke in real life, then it's not magic.

If you can't, then it is.

 

And I like how people are uncomfortable with the possibility of Luke shooting fireballs and casting curses because that's not realistic, but a dude who can shoot lightning from his hands is A-OK and perfectly realistic.

 

...

Edited November 28, 2014 by TheNahash

[Rhyltran]

Why are you guys arguing over semantics?

Wizards, Sorcerers, Warlocks, Mages, Witches, Force Users... call them what you like.

What difference does it really make whether midichlorians are the cause or the product of using the Force? Or what does it matter if the power the heroes have comes from the Force or Eru Ilúvatar?

 

OP, if you can train yourself to do Force Choke in real life, then it's not magic.

If you can't, then it is.

 

And I like how people are uncomfortable with the possibility of Luke shooting fireballs and casting curses because that's not realistic, but a dude who can shoot lightning from his hands is A-OK and perfectly realistic.

 

...

 

Perfectly realistic? No. True to the spirit of Star Wars? Also no. Jedi don't shoot fireballs or cast curses. Doing so would go against everything we know of Jedi and the Force.

 

If you want to argue that if they can do one thing that's unrealistic then other unrealistic things are also okay. In which case why not have Jedi flying around shooting lasers from their behind that can put craters in a planet? They can already release lightning from their hands so why not right? It'd be ridiculous. That's why.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Rhyltran

[Beniboybling]

Why are you guys arguing over semantics?

Wizards, Sorcerers, Warlocks, Mages, Witches, Force Users... call them what you like.

What difference does it really make whether midichlorians are the cause or the product of using the Force? Or what does it matter if the power the heroes have comes from the Force or Eru Ilúvatar?

 

OP, if you can train yourself to do Force Choke in real life, then it's not magic.

If you can't, then it is.

 

And I like how people are uncomfortable with the possibility of Luke shooting fireballs and casting curses because that's not realistic, but a dude who can shoot lightning from his hands is A-OK and perfectly realistic.

 

...

You appear to be appealing to the false logic that because its fantasy, anything goes. I'm afraid that's not the case, any functioning fictional universe establishes its own rules and "reality", some boundaries by which it can be defined.

 

Without that you have an illogical mess, no one wants to watch that, simple as.

[TheNahash]

You appear to be appealing to the false logic that because its fantasy, anything goes. I'm afraid that's not the case, any functioning fictional universe establishes its own rules and "reality", some boundaries by which it can be defined.

 

Without that you have an illogical mess, no one wants to watch that, simple as.

 

No, I'm actually appealing to the logic that because its fantasy, you never know what might happen next.

Look at the expanded universe. There are things in there that are never mentioned in the movies.

Sure, there's usually an explanation that ties them to the Force, but basically what sci-fi or fantasy means is that the only limits you actually have are what the copyright holders choose them to be (and, in the case of movies, the technology that is available at the time of production).

 

If Disney or LucasArts wanted to make flying Jedi, they would find a way to explain it.

It would most likely be some sort of stupid "use the force" moment and it would definitely look ridiculous, but it doesn't mean they can't do it, it just means that they have the good sense not to do it.

 

 

But all this is sort of irrelevant to what I originally said.

The OP seems to be hung up on the word "wizard". But, for all intents and purposes, that's exactly what they are.

They are the wizards of the SW universe. Just because other wizards in other mythologies throw fireballs and have pointy hats, doesn't mean SW can't use the word to describe "wise individuals with supernatural abilities", so long as they adapt them properly to the SW mythology and not suddenly present us with a bunch of Merlins.

 

Words mean nothing. It's the context that matters.

Edited November 28, 2014 by TheNahash

[Max_Killjoy]

The Force IS space magic.

 

Maybe using terms like "wizard" just makes certain people uncomfortable because they like to pretend that Star Wars isn't space fantasy.

[Rhyltran]

No, I'm actually appealing to the logic that because its fantasy, you never know what might happen next.

Look at the expanded universe. There are things in there that are never mentioned in the movies.

Sure, there's usually an explanation that ties them to the Force, but basically what sci-fi or fantasy means is that the only limits you actually have are what the copyright holders choose them to be (and, in the case of movies, the technology that is available at the time of production).

 

If Disney or LucasArts wanted to make flying Jedi, they would find a way to explain it.

It would most likely be some sort of stupid "use the force" moment and it would definitely look ridiculous, but it doesn't mean they can't do it, it just means that they have the good sense not to do it.

 

 

But all this is sort of irrelevant to what I originally said.

The OP seems to be hung up on the word "wizard". But, for all intents and purposes, that's exactly what they are.

They are the wizards of the SW universe. Just because other wizards in other mythologies throw fireballs and have pointy hats, doesn't mean SW can't use the word to describe "wise individuals with supernatural abilities", so long as they adapt them properly to the SW mythology and not suddenly present us with a bunch of Merlins.

 

Words mean nothing. It's the context that matters.

 

The part that bothers people is that it's a term used out of source by the people developing the movie. It doesn't automatically equate to bad but these are new people who might decide that Jedi in this case should fly, cast hexes, turn people into animals, and other powers. Some of us are concerned that they might turn "Jedi" into "Wizards of other fantasy." The concern is that they "Can" and you mentioned "They have the sense not to" but we haven't seen the new movies yet. Do they have enough sense not to? It's what lead to my statement "If Luke Skywalker suddenly starts casting curses, throwing fireballs, and turning people to toads I'm out."

[TheNahash]

The part that bothers people is that it's a term used out of source by the people developing the movie. It doesn't automatically equate to bad but these are new people who might decide that Jedi in this case should fly, cast hexes, turn people into animals, and other powers. Some of us are concerned that they might turn "Jedi" into "Wizards of other fantasy." The concern is that they "Can" and you mentioned "They have the sense not to" but we haven't seen the new movies yet. Do they have enough sense not to? It's what lead to my statement "If Luke Skywalker suddenly starts casting curses, throwing fireballs, and turning people to toads I'm out."

 

I understand that and that's precisely why I said that even though there are no limits to what copyright holders can do, it still doesn't mean they are going to do it just because they can.

 

Whether they have the good sense to not do something or not, will obviously only be answered when the movies come out but there is no good reason for them to turn Jedi Knights and Sith Lords to Maleficent. I mean give them a little credit, Kasdan co-wrote two of the original SW movies and Abrams is a pretty good choice as well. Unless they were high when writing the script and Lucas even higher when OK-ing it, I think it's safe to say there won't be any flying Yodas in the new trilogy.

 

Besides, hasn't Lucas said that he is "advising" them on what they can or can't do?

 

Nevertheless, this is a pretty different discussion than the one the OP started. The point here is that people are seemingly afraid of words and changes. Shooting lightning IS magic. Now, if they decide to have Sith also cast hexes and turn people into animals that would be an overkill and an idiotic addition - although, didn't the EU introduce the idea of Sith alchemy and Korriban zombies? You certainly can't blame that on Kasdan/Abrams.

 

But at some point people have to learn to relax, trust the writers and, most importantly, adapt to changes.

2015 Star Wars WILL NOT and SHOULD NOT be 1977 Star Wars, because even though 1977 Star Wars was good for when it was released, by today's standards, it would be cheesier than a SyFy Tv movie.

Things will change, some new ideas will be added to the mythology and inevitably some old ones will die out. And fans should be happy about those things, because that means the Star Wars mythology will live on so they will have the chance to do what their parents did with them - introduce them to quality sci-fi.

Edited November 28, 2014 by TheNahash