CM Packs

[Foambreaker]

My wife and I think of this as gambling. We open some from time to time for fun but we recognize that due to the odds if you want a particular item GTN is the place to go.

 

Discussion:

Do you think people could have a problem with packs like some do with gambling?

[KTap]

My wife and I think of this as gambling. We open some from time to time for fun but we recognize that due to the odds if you want a particular item GTN is the place to go.

 

Discussion:

Do you think people could have a problem with packs like some do with gambling?

 

Of course they can. It is gambling

[Galbatorrix]

What this weeks episode of South Park. It plays in perfectly with this thought process.

[Deewe]

Indeed, at the end it's gambling with real money.

[Essence_of_Light]

What this weeks episode of South Park. It plays in perfectly with this thought process.

 

I believe you mean watch, not what.

[TUXs]

Of course people could. But Bioware is a business that is there to generate profit, I don't fault them at all for doing this how they do it. As the consumer, we have all the power to end this for good...we just don't have the will.

[Icestar]

Discussion:

Do you think people could have a problem with packs like some do with gambling?

 

Ofcourse players have problems with the gambling aspect of the cartel packs. If you check around on the forum you will find the "I opened 150 packs and did not get the item I wanted" posts.

 

Players that spend tons of money only to get that special item that they never got so they open more and more and more packs.

 

Sometimes I think that the cartel packs might be some kind of substitute for the loot that is usually hard to get in a MMO. In this game there is no real item chase, the game is to simple for that with bolster and all. The cartel market can offer the excitement some players need in a MMO, it is just a thought.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Icestar

[ashikagaoda]

Ofcourse players have problems with the gambling aspect of the cartel packs. If you check around on the forum you will find the "I opened 150 packs and did not get the item I wanted" posts.

 

Players that spend tons of money only to get that special item that they never got so they open more and more and more packs.

 

Sometimes I think that the cartel packs might be some kind of substitute for the loot that is usually hard to get in a MMO. In this game there is no real item chase, the game is to simple for that with bolster and all. The cartel market can offer the excitement some players need in a MMO, it is just a thought.

 

Those random items packs on the CM are pure, unadulterated gambling. The Cartel Market (and man, even the name of the Cash Shop boils my blood) was one of the reasons I de-subbed back in 2012. It is a wretched hive of scum and villainy and a disgrace to the original vision of SWTOR.

Edited November 6, 2014 by ashikagaoda

[DarthDymond]

Is it gambling? Yes.

Could some people have a problem with a game that includes gambling? Sure.

 

By the same token, could some people have a problem with a game that focuses on war/violence and includes sex outside of marriage? Sure.

 

We all pick what forms of entertainment work for us, and gravitate away from the ones that emphasize things we don't care for.

[Rankyn]

Those random items packs on the CM are pure, unadulterated gambling.

No, for it to be gambling, you'd have a chance of not getting what you paid for.

In the case of the packs, you paid for a "grab bag" and that's exactly what you got.

The things in the pack may not have been what you wanted, but you did, in fact, get what was clearly promised would be in the pack:

- A decoration

- 2 rare bonus items with a chance of a super rare

- 1 boost item

- 1 high-end companion gift

- 1 rep token or cartel cert

- A chance for a scrap token

 

For it to be 'unadulterated gambling' you would pay your money and then you may or may not receive the pack.

[hadoken]

My wife and I think of this as gambling. We open some from time to time for fun but we recognize that due to the odds if you want a particular item GTN is the place to go.

 

Discussion:

Do you think people could have a problem with packs like some do with gambling?

 

Oh absolutely and BioWare is counting on and profiting off that.

[DOHboy]

hmm must be a new pack released with a rare® item in it...cause we need more glue from this horse.

 

blah blah blah gambling...blah blah blah grab bag...blah blah blah definition of gambling...blah blah blah definition of "chance" blah blah blah definition of risk...blah blah blah money grab...

 

miss any of the blah blah stuff we usually end up getting to? ....oh yeah missed one law....blah blah blah Hitler

[Icestar]

No, for it to be gambling, you'd have a chance of not getting what you paid for.

In the case of the packs, you paid for a "grab bag" and that's exactly what you got.

The things in the pack may not have been what you wanted, but you did, in fact, get what was clearly promised would be in the pack:

- A decoration

- 2 rare bonus items with a chance of a super rare

- 1 boost item

- 1 high-end companion gift

- 1 rep token or cartel cert

- A chance for a scrap token

 

For it to be 'unadulterated gambling' you would pay your money and then you may or may not receive the pack.

 

Considering there are a pool of items that has higher value and items that are hardly worth anything at all it still is a gamble to recieve those higher value items.

 

You know what you get, like a random decoration and such but the items the players want is random if they recieve or not.

 

Like the smaller Revan statue, players probably spent tons of cash trying to get thatone or the latest krayt dragon skeleton. It is still a gamble if you loose or win if that is the items the player chase after. A gambling addiction is based on something may it be "the search of the jackpot" or "the search of that special item" but it is still a random event that will decide if the player is successful.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Icestar

[DarthTHC]

No, for it to be gambling, you'd have a chance of not getting what you paid for.

In the case of the packs, you paid for a "grab bag" and that's exactly what you got.

The things in the pack may not have been what you wanted, but you did, in fact, get what was clearly promised would be in the pack:

- A decoration

- 2 rare bonus items with a chance of a super rare

- 1 boost item

- 1 high-end companion gift

- 1 rep token or cartel cert

- A chance for a scrap token

 

For it to be 'unadulterated gambling' you would pay your money and then you may or may not receive the pack.

 

That's like saying when I play a slot machine, I'm paying to pull the lever so it's not gambling. Or when I shoot "dice" (because the forum will censor the name of the game), I'm playing to roll the dice so it's not gambling.

 

I might not have got what I wanted (money) but I sure did get to see those little wheels spin around and land on pretty pictures... or see the dice flop about and watch people around the table ooh, ahh, or sigh as the case may be.

[Galbatorrix]

I believe you mean watch, not what.

 

Yeah... on a side note, this forum has more board police than any other I've visited, lol.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Galbatorrix

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I'm one of those addicted to CM packs / hypercrates ... I know I'm addicted because I can't even think of why I buy them or anything in particular I am after, I just enjoy opening them and the luck of getting something interesting or valueable.

 

In saying that though there is no real loss factor for me other than running out of storage space to buy more CM packs . I say no loss factor because every hypercrate I tend to work out the rough "current" values of the items I get and compare them to what I paid for the hypercrate and I almost always come out on top, sometimes very greatly so depending on the drops I get.

 

I fund it solely through selling items from other CM packs and crafting/gathering etc. also so no real cash either which is all good.

[Oneirophrenia]

No, for it to be gambling, you'd have a chance of not getting what you paid for.

In the case of the packs, you paid for a "grab bag" and that's exactly what you got.

The things in the pack may not have been what you wanted, but you did, in fact, get what was clearly promised would be in the pack:

- A decoration

- 2 rare bonus items with a chance of a super rare

- 1 boost item

- 1 high-end companion gift

- 1 rep token or cartel cert

- A chance for a scrap token

 

For it to be 'unadulterated gambling' you would pay your money and then you may or may not receive the pack.

 

Not quite. Imagine if you were playing roulette and put down a single chip on every inside/outside bet. With that strategy you are guaranteed to win "something" on every spin but still end up on the losing end in the long run due to the way the payout structure. The nature of CM packs is quite similar to that strategy as you will always get "something" in return for your money but chances are it won't be the jackpot items you were looking for.

 

It's gambling by definition but not the type that is regulated by interstate gambling laws since no real money is paid out as a result of winning.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Oneirophrenia

[CmdrShpd]

I fail to see how buying CM packs is substantively different than buying packs of baseball cards (or various other things like it).

[tdmaha]

I will never understand those who judge others based on how they spend their money. Sure call it gambling if that is what you need to do to justify degrading those that enjoy spending their money the way they see fit. Those people who choose to spend money on packs probably think those who spend $100s a night at the bar probably have issues too. But they dont go on some forums trying to claim how much better they are then those who spend tons of money at the bar...

 

I guess all those kids playing that crane game have a gambling problem too right?

 

I guess all those kids who put a quarter in one of those machines hoping for a specific sticker have a gambling problem too right?

Edited November 7, 2014 by tdmaha

[Nightfalll]

Once and for all..........Families deal with TRUE addiction every day in this country. Substance abuse destroys people every day. EVERY DAY. Kills them........Got it? KILLS

 

An 'online' MMORPG gaming addiction is pure crap. There is no comparison.

 

 

 

end thread silly

[Kulyok]

Well, before the strongholds came up, it was fairly useless to open packs. You usually ended up with lots of crap armor parts nobody wanted on GTN. It was better to sell the packs unopened for credits.

 

Now, however, nearly all decorations cost 70-100++ k(especially in the first few days), and even if you see them sold for peanuts, you can wait a few weeks for the next pack and THEN sell them for what they're worth. And you get 2 or sometimes 4 decorations in each pack. (if you got one, it's usually an expensive fountain or a gunship or something even cooler). So, contents of each pack with decorations cost about 160-200k already.

 

Add to that a certificate that can buy you a 300-500k decoration(green bushes in particular sell extremely well, because nobody bothers to buy them), add the gifts and the experience boosts(half of the gifts are purple and sell for 20+k, one third of the XP boosts are yellow and pink and sell for quite a lot, especially with 12xp boost).

 

And if you sell your armor parts as soon as possible and relist them every hour or two during the first day, well, that's 50+k; more, if you're lucky.

 

So, it's not gambling. Rather, it's a rather rational way to get credits AND to decorate your strongholds, if you're into it.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Kulyok

[Rankyn]

Not quite. Imagine if you were playing roulette and put down a single chip on every inside/outside bet. With that strategy you are guaranteed to win "something" on every spin but still end up on the losing end in the long run due to the way the payout structure. The nature of CM packs is quite similar to that strategy as you will always get "something" in return for your money but chances are it won't be the jackpot items you were looking for.

 

It's gambling by definition but not the type that is regulated by interstate gambling laws since no real money is paid out as a result of winning.

Hardly.

You paid real money (or the equivalent) for all those roulette bets that lost.

You paid something and got nothing.

THAT is gambling and it is vastly different from CM packs.

 

With CM packs, you may not have gotten what you wanted, but the fact is that you got what was promised... a random assortment of items.

You made a straight-up purchase of a random bundle of goods.

You can call it gambling all you want, but that won't make it gambling.

[JouerTue]

yes, i think people may suffer of this, like you can suffer of addiction from the game itself..they could just add a message like ''enjoy responsibly'' to discharge even more any responsibility.

one has his life in his hands and shouldn't interfere with others'

[Oneirophrenia]

Hardly.

You paid real money (or the equivalent) for all those roulette bets that lost.

You paid something and got nothing.

THAT is gambling and it is vastly different from CM packs.

 

With CM packs, you may not have gotten what you wanted, but the fact is that you got what was promised... a random assortment of items.

You made a straight-up purchase of a random bundle of goods.

You can call it gambling all you want, but that won't make it gambling.

 

Uh... sorry but you don't get to make up the definitions of gambling or betting/wagering. For reference, read up on 31 U.S. Code § 5362, specifically sections 1(A) and 1(B). The point is that "money" is not mentioned even once, only "prize" and "something of value". You will also notice that game "subject to chance" is mentioned multiple times and CM packs definitely fall into that category due to its randomized nature which players have exert little control over. Anyway, there is a reason why the definition for gambling (or bet/wager) under these types of federal or state statutes is very broad and not as specific as you seem to believe. It has to be in order to give the justice system more interpretative power and to eliminate potential loopholes. As such, a lot of things can technically fall under the definitions of gambling but not all of them are subjected to regulations or is illegal.

 

Quit being so tunnel visioned when it comes to the term "gambling".

Edited November 7, 2014 by Oneirophrenia

[tdmaha]

Uh... sorry but you don't get to make up the definitions of gambling or betting/wagering. For reference, read up on 31 U.S. Code § 5362, specifically sections 1(A) and 1(B). The point is that "money" is not mentioned even once, only "prize" and "something of value". You will also notice that game "subject to chance" is mentioned multiple times and CM packs definitely fall into that category due to its randomized nature which players have exert little control over. Anyway, there is a reason why the definition for gambling (or bet/wager) under these types of federal or state statutes is very broad and not as specific as you seem to believe. It has to be in order to give the justice system more interpretative power and to eliminate potential loopholes. As such, a lot of things can technically fall under the definitions of gambling but not all of them are subjected to regulations or is illegal.

 

Quit being so tunnel visioned when it comes to the term "gambling".

 

So a 5 year old who plays those crane games for a stuff animal is GAMBLING?

 

That same 5 year old who puts a quarter (now probably $0.75) into the machine for a random sticker or toy is also GAMBLING?

 

The same 5 year old that picks out a pack of baseball cards or super hero cards hoping for a spefic card is also GAMBLING?

 

All three of these are a lot closer to cartel packs then playing Roulette.