Aurbere Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 OK, so to point this debate in another direction, I would like to see some more debate on fighters. Skill of pilots, quality of ships, and how all of that will impact the battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) Tbh both sides have pilots out of their elements in regards to piloting. This is moreso for the R Reborn than Resistance, now I know Beni said that the pilots have some sort of Kaggath pilot school thing they go to. But....I feel that only takes the pilots so far and this made up school is...well made up, so we obviously don't have any info on it. Both sides, their fighter pilots won't know the controls very well as they would knowing the fighters that they flew during their timeframe. As far as the bigger ships go, that is where the R Reborn falls short and the R Resistance naval crew know very well the full capabilities of the ships they are piloting, with the exception of the Imperious class. Meanwhile the R Reborn...the crew would really only know how to effectively fly the Hammerhead and Interdictor. While that does equal to what the Resistance can pilot, this leaves the other bigger ships unable to be used in full. However...this wouldn't make them entirely useless, the Reborn does have more ships, but the lack of experience piloting them is gonna be the thing that shoots them in the foot and why I don't think they would be that much of a game changer. Now as far as the skill of the pilots....there really isn't much for Clone Pilots in the way of describing training, the same with OR pilots from what I am reading. I mean just by logic, Clone Pilots should have greater knowledge on piloting and tactics and better training facilities compared to 3,000+ some odd years ago. But....that's falling flat on speculation. I don't have any problems accepting this though, if others are ok with it. Edited November 7, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7785979&postcount=843 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 The pilots know the ships they are using. The academy thing was just an explanation. Obviously we can't have pilots getting dropped into vessels they can't use. This is one of those suspension of disbelief things for the Kaggath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 You're insane Beni. I know people don't like admitting Post-ROTJ characters are any good, but seriously Revan Only won his war by copying his enemy's strategy. It was not tactically brilliant, he surpassed contemporaries like Saul Karath for god sakes. He was good, don't get me wrong, but Nek was on another level, not Revan (coincidently Sel even admitted Revan isn't much of a tactician especially in small-scale engagements) Show me, Beni, show me how good Revan is, because this "I don't subscribe to Post-ROTJ characters being any good" crap is getting really old really fast and your bias is showing like you wouldn't believe. Guess what Beni I don't subscribe to this "KOTOR characters are better than everyone" crap either.Revan single-handedly defeated the Mandalorians during the Mandalorian Wars, I don't see how the means by which he achieved this changes that fact, the tactic he used worked and it worked well. Indeed, what is it about analyzing and mimicking the strategies of your opponents, to a superior level, that is not tactically brilliant? Fact is, Revan won wars, Nek one battles. I've provided by reasons for why I believe Revan superior "show you" if you will, if you wish to disagree then go ahead, but I don't see any reasons here as to why Nek is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Technically, Revan won a war, not wars. Anyway, Revan isn't infallible, but he isn't a bad tactician either. Beni does make a good point. Revan did analyze the tactics of the Mandalorians and implemented them for himself. He did the same with the tactics of others as well. Essentially, Revan is a product of tactical ingenuity built up over centuries, perhaps even millenia. Further, Revan was able to devise his own tactics. After all, he did mastermind the defeat of the Republic, even if he wasn't successful. That said, I don't consider Revan on the same level as Thrawn. I think we need to stop throwing around that name. There is only one Thrawn. Deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 That said, I don't consider Revan on the same level as Thrawn. I think we need to stop throwing around that name. There is only one Thrawn. Deal with it. Well that's not quite what I meant, I just meant like Thrawn he was the legend of his era, and his impact on galactic events/battles is comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Well that's not quite what I meant, I just meant like Thrawn he was the legend of his era, and his impact on galactic events/battles is comparable. I know, I was joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) The pilots know the ships they are using. The academy thing was just an explanation. Obviously we can't have pilots getting dropped into vessels they can't use. This is one of those suspension of disbelief things for the Kaggath. Still the point is, they won't be able to use them as effectively as they did the fighters they did use right? Otherwise, I don't see the point of choosing Naval Crews. Nor am I seeing the point, of bringing up how well trained pilots are and such. Edited November 7, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 The idea of Mace trying an assassination attempt is probably strong, but he'd certainly be cut downIs it? i didn't think the Jedi Order liked assassinations, sure I read that somewhere... Was that not one of the reasons why they didn't try to assassinate Dooku? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 Tbh both sides have pilots out of their elements in regards to piloting. This is moreso for the R Reborn than Resistance, now I know Beni said that the pilots have some sort of Kaggath pilot school thing they go to. But....I feel that only takes the pilots so far and this made up school is...well made up, so we obviously don't have any info on it. Both sides, their fighter pilots won't know the controls very well as they would knowing the fighters that they flew during their timeframe. As far as the bigger ships go, that is where the R Reborn falls short and the R Resistance naval crew know very well the full capabilities of the ships they are piloting, with the exception of the Imperious class. Meanwhile the R Reborn...the crew would really only know how to effectively fly the Hammerhead and Interdictor. While that does equal to what the Resistance can pilot, this leaves the other bigger ships unable to be used in full. However...this wouldn't make them entirely useless, the Reborn does have more ships, but the lack of experience piloting them is gonna be the thing that shoots them in the foot and why I don't think they would be that much of a game changer. Now as far as the skill of the pilots....there really isn't much for Clone Pilots in the way of describing training, the same with OR pilots from what I am reading. I mean just by logic, Clone Pilots should have greater knowledge on piloting and tactics and better training facilities compared to 3,000+ some odd years ago. But....that's falling flat on speculation. I don't have any problems accepting this though, if others are ok with it.Well as Aurbere says, they'll be fully aware of how to operate the ships they are using, but yes this doesn't make up for years of experience. I still believe all vessels used will be effective, but no to maximum effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Still the point is, they won't be able to use them as effectively as they did the fighters they did use right? Otherwise, I don't see the point of choosing Naval Crews. Nor am I seeing the point, of bringing up how well trained pilots are and such. They know how to use the ships they are flying and they retain the skill they would canonically have. Basically, just imagine them flying the ships they are used to. If that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Is it? i didn't think the Jedi Order liked assassinations, sure I read that somewhere... Was that not one of the reasons why they didn't try to assassinate Dooku? The idea of assassinating Dooku did come up, but Mace said that Dooku was no longer a shatterpoint when it came up. Mace did, however, have regrets about not taking Dooku out on Geonosis. If Mace perceives a shatterpoint in the war, he may go after it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) They know how to use the ships they are flying and they retain the skill they would canonically have. Basically, just imagine them flying the ships they are used to. If that helps. Well as Aurbere says, they'll be fully aware of how to operate the ships they are using, but yes this doesn't make up for years of experience. I still believe all vessels used will be effective, but no to maximum effect. These two don't really match up together... I mean the pilots them being able to fly the ships that's fine. But I would expect for there to be a penalty with crews and ships chosen. Which is what I was bringing up and Beni said. Edited November 7, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 These two don't really match up together... I mean the pilots them being able to fly the ships that's fine. But I would expect for there to be a penalty with crews and ships chosen. Which is what I was bringing up and Beni said. Defer to Beni then. My post is what I would prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Well as Aurbere says, they'll be fully aware of how to operate the ships they are using, but yes this doesn't make up for years of experience. I still believe all vessels used will be effective, but no to maximum effect. Is it against the rules to have seperate crews of naval officers? I was denied the rebels as pilots because they were taken but they're not a anymore, having a split to reflect the fact my ground forces are also split makes sense to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 Is it against the rules to have seperate crews of naval officers? I was denied the rebels as pilots because they were taken but they're not a anymore, having a split to reflect the fact my ground forces are also split makes sense to me Nope nope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Nope nope! No I can't or no it's not against the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Is it? i didn't think the Jedi Order liked assassinations, sure I read that somewhere... Was that not one of the reasons why they didn't try to assassinate Dooku? He regretted not killing Dooku without a fight, and Surik/Revan would be similar to Dooku here... Either way I think it'd be a mission to Storm the bridge where they conveniently meet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 He regretted not killing Dooku without a fight, and Surik/Revan would be similar to Dooku here... Either way I think it'd be a mission to Storm the bridge where they conveniently meet. Well, I think we could explore it. It's a possibility since the space commander would be seen by Mace as a shatterpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 No I can't or no it's not against the rules.Well both really I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Well, I think we could explore it. It's a possibility since the space commander would be seen by Mace as a shatterpoint. So what's everyone's thoughts on the battle? I don't think Revan would leave her without a guard, seeing as he loved her almost as much as Bastilla and she's his greatest weapon... I'd think two spec ops Vanguards and 2 of the best Jedi Knights. Personally I think this is a challenge Mace would go for, but not one he can win. The Vanguards' armor has shown the ability to deflect Lightsaber strikes, the Jedi with Surik would know her by then and probably have force bonded, increasing their power and prowess. As for Surik herself, she's shown the ability to hold off a Master of Juyo, which indicates she at least has strong saber defenses. Coupled with random spec ops shots or Melee Strikes, and the blades of two Jedi with her, I think it'd basically be Maces' execution. But I guess I would say that, now wouldn't I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 So what's everyone's thoughts on the battle? I don't think Revan would leave her without a guard, seeing as he loved her almost as much as Bastilla and she's his greatest weapon... I'd think two spec ops Vanguards and 2 of the best Jedi Knights. Personally I think this is a challenge Mace would go for, but not one he can win. The Vanguards' armor has shown the ability to deflect Lightsaber strikes, the Jedi with Surik would know her by then and probably have force bonded, increasing their power and prowess. As for Surik herself, she's shown the ability to hold off a Master of Juyo, which indicates she at least has strong saber defenses. Coupled with random spec ops shots or Melee Strikes, and the blades of two Jedi with her, I think it'd basically be Maces' execution. But I guess I would say that, now wouldn't I. Mace probably wouldn't go alone, though. He'd probably take a group of Jedi Knights and a squad of Clones. But I don't think SpecOps dudes would be on the bridge. They'd be the ones sent to take out the boarding party. They'd fail, or course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Mace probably wouldn't go alone, though. He'd probably take a group of Jedi Knights and a squad of Clones. But I don't think SpecOps dudes would be on the bridge. They'd be the ones sent to take out the boarding party. They'd fail, or course. Spec ops are trained to kill Sith, and everyone knows how to take down Jedi. Revan could basically run a class on it to be honest. And no, Revan would go take the Boarding party on and slaughter them, he's going to be on the bridge too I just thought Revan + Surik vs Mace was unfair Mace would bring clones/Jedi for sure, but they'd be a distraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 I don't think Mace will have any trouble handling SpecOps, however if he senses the presence of two powerful Force Users aboard the Viscount I do not believe he will be reckless enough to attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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