Kaggath Battlegrounds Semi-Finals: Republic Resistance vs Republic Reborn

[Selenial]

But that was a special quality of those turbolasers, so I don't think its that simple.

 

But yeah I recall now your correct.

 

And I don't recall any instances of tri-fighters soloing Venators... well there was the Battle of Saleucami but I assume that the Venator in question had been damaged and perhaps had its shields taken down first.

 

The Venator was in perfect condition, it had no shields.

 

Which is the exact point...

 

No it's not a specialized quality of those Turbolasers, the "Special Quality" is it's ability to switch between Destroyer blasting and Point Defense turret.

[Selenial]

Star Wars Rogue Squadron: The Official Nintendo Player's Guide, I doubt you're gonna get an accurate reading on it.

 

Even then, it's contradicting 3 other sources.

 

Haha, god no I don't have that. Though yes I'd assume if it ever mentioned something like that, it was retconned.

 

This will be my last post for a few minutes by the way, I just noticed I have yet to post my opening argument.

[Selenial]

And concerning the people of Coruscant, I reiterate how by the time any such force could be rallied the battle would be over, literally overnight. Not that I personally believe that would ever happen, this is not the Mandalorian Blockade.

 

If you're not allowing this, then I at least get forces from the Hutt Cartel Fleet.

 

They had a standing fleet of Mercenaries constantly, an expeditionary fleet, an Expansion fleet and a defense fleet.

 

Since suppliers of ground Vehicles are allowed to give tanks on the ground (A huge advantage) the space equivalent needs to be noted too. I'd put the space equivalent of that at 500.... As the Hutts supply both however, I'd happily halve it to 250 fighters.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Selenial

[Beniboybling]

The Venator was in perfect condition, it had no shields.

 

Which is the exact point...

 

No it's not a specialized quality of those Turbolasers, the "Special Quality" is it's ability to switch between Destroyer blasting and Point Defense turret.

Well, it was coming under supressive fire from several Munificents.

 

But I guess tri-fighters are just that bad@ss *makes a note for next round*

[Beniboybling]

If you're not allowing this, then I at least get forces from the Hutt Cartel Fleet.

 

They had a standing fleet of Mercenaries constantly, an expeditionary fleet, an Expansion fleet and a defense fleet.

 

Since suppliers of ground Vehicles are allowed to give tanks on the ground (A huge advantage) the space equivalent needs to be noted too. I'd put the space equivalent of that at 500.... As the Hutts supply both however, I'd happily halve it to 250 fighters.

I've said it before and I say it again, the rules don't permit suppliers to field anything in large numbers! So no!

 

A hundred times no! Not 500, not 250, half a dozen or so at best!

 

Though I'm don't think there fleet was that expansive, do you have a source?

Edited November 6, 2014 by Beniboybling

[StarSquirrel]

If you're not allowing this, then I at least get forces from the Hutt Cartel Fleet.

 

They had a standing fleet of Mercenaries constantly, an expeditionary fleet, an Expansion fleet and a defense fleet.

 

Since suppliers of ground Vehicles are allowed to give tanks on the ground (A huge advantage) the space equivalent needs to be noted too. I'd put the space equivalent of that at 500.... As the Hutts supply both however, I'd happily halve it to 250 fighters.

 

Rules #39, #41 play heavily against you.

 

Also I was under the impression that providing more fighters was restricted to reloading an existing ship's complement post-battle. That discussion occurred in mine and Rayla's match...

[Selenial]

I've said it before and I say it again, the rules don't permit suppliers to field anything in large numbers! So no!

 

A hundred times no! Not 500, not 250, half a dozen or so at best!

 

Though I'm don't think there fleet was that expansive, do you have a source?

 

I'm so confused as to why you think this is any different to 20 T2B tanks, or other cases like this. This isn't "Large" numbers at all, a supplier chosen for their Space bonuses cant feed Half the complement of a Venator? Really?

[StarSquirrel]

I'm so confused as to why you think this is any different to 20 T2B tanks, or other cases like this. This isn't "Large" numbers at all, a supplier chosen for their Space bonuses cant feed Half the complement of a Venator? Really?

You made the mistake of thinking that there ARE space bonuses. It was heavily implied (and outright stated I think) that suppliers would have very, very little impact on the naval aspect. Why do you think everyone went with ground-focused suppliers? Rayla got pissed at that in our match as well, just ask.

[Selenial]

Rules #39, #41 play heavily against you.

 

Also I was under the impression that providing more fighters was restricted to reloading an existing ship's complement post-battle. That discussion occurred in mine and Rayla's match...

 

Perhaps, but oh how he likes to contradict himself...

However Sienar does give you production facilities a good fighter boost.

Then on the space front say that the Underworld supplies the things Sienar used to, as well as mercenary and Smuggler pilots replacing the TIE's I got from them?

Well yes, though obviously they wouldn't be able to supply you with TIEs.

 

Meh, not like I need them exactly, it just seems fair.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Selenial

[Selenial]

You made the mistake of thinking that there ARE space bonuses. It was heavily implied (and outright stated I think) that suppliers would have very, very little impact on the naval aspect. Why do you think everyone went with ground-focused suppliers? Rayla got pissed at that in our match as well, just ask.

 

note that this only applies to capital ships.

 

/5char

[Beniboybling]

I'm so confused as to why you think this is any different to 20 T2B tanks, or other cases like this. This isn't "Large" numbers at all, a supplier chosen for their Space bonuses cant feed Half the complement of a Venator? Really?

Again I don't think 250 to 500 is small by any stretch of the imagination, the Venator-class star destroyer is a military-grade carrier built by the most illustrious shipyards for the wealthiest government of the time.

 

We are dealing with Hutts here, they don't even have a standing fleet, let alone military grade shipyards.

 

Anyway its up to Aurbere to decide what is "small" in this respect and I'll abide by his decision.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

Perhaps, but oh how he likes to contradict himself...

 

 

 

 

Meh, not like I need them exactly, it just seems fair.

If I gave you the impression that you would be receiving 100's of fighters, then I apologise, but I never said that.

[StarSquirrel]

Just found this gem back in the CA v RR thread.

 

Yay, I get to be R2!

 

Lol, I can see it now:

 

Me: You're gonna lose

Rayla: Am not

Me: R2!

 

Also, nothing

[Selenial]

Again I don't think 250 to 500 is small by any stretch of the imagination, the Venator-class star destroyer is a military-grade carrier built by the most illustrious shipyards for the wealthiest government of the time.

 

We are dealing with Hutts here, they don't even have a standing fleet, let alone military grade shipyards.

 

Anyway its up to Aurbere to decide what is "small" in this respect and I'll abide by his decision.

 

What do you think the fleet of 8 Valor-sized cruisers than Invaded Makeb was? The Expansionary fleet that the Republic came across before they invaded Karraggas palace?

 

The Hutts had both a standing fleet and a standing army.

 

Not sure what the source is but Wookieepedia mentions them too.

 

Found it: "Thirteen days ago, the Hutt Cartel violated Republic space and seized the planet Makeb. They've blockaded the system with thirty Ajuur-class heavy cruisers." - Jace Malcom

Edited November 6, 2014 by Selenial

[Beniboybling]

What do you think the fleet of 8 Valor-sized cruisers than Invaded Makeb was? The Expansionary fleet that the Republic came across before they invaded Karraggas palace?

 

The Hutts had both a standing fleet and a standing army.

 

Not sure what the source is but Wookieepedia mentions them too.

 

Found it: "Thirteen days ago, the Hutt Cartel violated Republic space and seized the planet Makeb. They've blockaded the system with thirty Ajuur-class heavy cruisers." - Jace Malcom

Yeah but those are actually just armed transports. And when are they called an Expansionary Fleet? Edited November 6, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Selenial]

Ok, I'm going to make this a long-ish post, divided into multiple segments. I'll try to keep these points short and sweet.

 

Ship to Ship:

 

Personally I believe Single ship vs Single Ship comparisons are less than meaningless, they provide a biased view of the battle as they make someone gauge a Ship as a singular force, not as a fleet which this battle is obviously focusing on. Even Light Capital ships vs Light Capital ships, this is not one Hammerhead vs an Accalamtor, it is 13 Acclamators vs 13 hammerheads and 5 Endurance class's.

 

With that said, here is the total firepower my fleet possesses:

260 Double Light Laser canons. (Note, this doesn't mean Less than Light, as some assume, it means a twin barrel)

383 Turbolasers

353 heavy Turbolasers.

130 Medium Turbolasers,

450 Quad Turbolaser Canons

860 Point Defense Canons,

35 assault Concussion Missile tubes

and 53 Heavy Ion Canons.

 

Rayla's fleet in Comparison:

48 DBY-827 Canons

12 Medium Dual turbolaser canons

48 Turbolasers

624 Point Defense laser canons

24 Heavy Proton Tubes

156 Quad Turbolaser canons

65 proton tubes

25 Octupette canons,

25 Heavy Ion canons

 

To roll with a comparison here, simpled down the Republic Reborn has:

251 more Turbolasers

294 more Quad Turbolasers

353 more heavy Turbolasers

236 more Point Defense laser canons

35 more concussion missile launchers

28 more Heavy Ion canons

at the expense of

48 DBY-827 Canons

65 Proton Torpedo Tubes

and 24 heavy proton tubes

 

NB: above I factored in 25 Octupettes as worth 200 standard Turbolasers.

 

 

 

As you can see, in ship to ship, the Republic Resistance are astronomically outgunned. Put this on top of quotes like this for the acclamator...

Though it can certainly defend itself from small spaceborne threats, it doesn't have the staying power or flexibility to stand against a concerted attack by capital ships, It is for this reason, more than any other, that the Acclamator design was eventually abandoned by the Empire. - Source: Starships of the Galaxy.

And you see, at least in my eyes, that the only saving grace of the Republic Resistance is it's fighters... and here's what I have to say about that.

 

Starfighters:

 

Whilst yes, it is true that the Resistance outnumbers the Republic Reborn 2:1, the issue is the Republic Resistance will be forced into engaging in an attack. Unfortunately for Nek and Co, there is no chance of a Ship to Ship dominant battle in favor of the Resistance. Venators were designed for fighter carrying warfare, and they relied heavily on them.

Whilst the fleet's turbolasers are pounding on the enemy vessels, Wedge will have his work cut out for him.

 

Currently it is 1922 fighters for the Reborn, and 4608.

Add in the 250 support from the Cartel's standing fleet and we get a measely 2172 for the Republic Reborn.

 

Seem like a massive advantage to the Resistance? It should. Until you look deeper.

 

The Resistance is forced into the offensive. Be as unpredictable as you want Nek, you cannot deny that when your fleet is this outgunned it has to attack.

 

However when it does this, the Republic Reborn gains an advantage. At this range, the resistance cannot utilize it's Point defence canons, they have limited range and become too inaccurate and slow.

 

This leaves it as 2172 fighters, and 860 Point Defense cannons against 4608 fighters. All the Canons need to do is take out one ship each, an easy task, and this battle becomes closer. Not of course mentioning the fact that my ships have a total of 324 Tractor beams. Perfect for taking out pesky "quick" fighters.

 

Point defence canons can also target Fighters in a dogfight, who are tailing allied fighters. A way to cover each others backs per-say.

 

All in all, this leaves Wedge (Whilst on the Defensive) Significantly at an advantage. All he need do is Delay the enemy while their cruisers are destroyed.

 

 

In terms of Tacticians and Battle Meditation:

 

I'm going to get flamed for saying this, but I believe post NJO Tacticians are very overrated. As a tactician Nek is brilliant, however beating the Thrawn Simulator is not an astounding feat. The Thrawn simulator is exactly that, a Simulation. Thrawn's genius comes from the fact he is ingenious and adapted to situations, something the simulator never did.

 

Nek is given the credit of being one of the the best tacticians of his time. Surik is the best Naval tactician of her time, she was to the Military what Revan was to the Galaxy. She single handedly won victories at Dxun and many other worlds that other generals could not do with 10x the force. Both thanks to her natural skill in Battle Meditation and her ingenious tactics.

 

They are near to a match, in my opinion.

 

Having Wedge leading fighter wings from his personal starfighter however tips the republic reborn over the edge Tacticians wise, they can coordinate better than Nek ever could given how much he'd have to handle. When your capital ships are going down and your fighters are being scattered, which does one tactician pick? The answer doesnt matter, since Surik and Wedge can handle both.

 

As for Battle Meditation, I don't honestly think Nomi's will play a large part. Battlefield meditation requires someone to actually be aware of the battle, communicate with all of their forces subconsciously etc. The Distance she would have to cover in my opinion is too great, it will weaken her hold.

Surik's battle meditation was usually only used as a buff to her own armada, so she will be pouring more power into her soldiers from a closer distance, than Nomi could pour into both armies from such a huge distance away.

 

I believe they'd cancel each other out, with Surik perhaps taking a negligibly small advantage.

 

 

I have more to post after this has been debated. I'll also copy this into my post on the Front Page to allow for easier viewing, and for it not to get lost.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Selenial

[Selenial]

Yeah but those are actually just armed transports. And when are they called an Expansionary Fleet?

 

Actually that's just assumption, they're called both Cruisers and heavy transports.

 

However we've seen them in open warfare before, enough to threaten Thranta cruisers.

 

As for the fleet thing, I made up the name Expansionary = Expanding things, that fleet was used to Invade, and IIRC there was a similar fleet protecting Nal Hutta.

[StarSquirrel]

In terms of Tacticians and Battle Meditation:

I'm going to get flamed for saying this, but I believe post NJO Tacticians are very overrated. As a tactician Nek is brilliant, however beating the Thrawn Simulator is not an astounding feat. The Thrawn simulator is exactly that, a Simulation. Thrawn's genius comes from the fact he is ingenious and adapted to situations, something the simulator never did.

You'd be wrong. Nek won the Thrawn Simulator (which to that point was unbeaten even by some of the greatest tactical minds of that time period) with no real fleet command experience. That is the impressive part Sel. Not only that, it was his tactics that led to the toppling of perhaps the single deadliest force to have ever attacked the galaxy (Vong). He won several engagements during the Second Galactic Civil War over some other talented leaders... He developed some of the greatest naval tactics in the galaxy and was hailed as a hero on a planet which is known for great admirals.

 

He lives up to the hype and this isn't bias on everyone elses part, it is bias on your part Sel. That is obvious by your next statement.

 

Nek is given the credit of being one of the the best tacticians of his time. Surik is the best Naval tactician of her time, she was to the Military what Revan was to the Galaxy. She single handedly won victories at Dxun and many other worlds that other generals could not do with 10x the force. Both thanks to her natural skill in Battle Meditation and her ingenious tactics.

 

They are near to a match, in my opinion.

You're going to compare Meetra, by all accounts a decent general who has the advantage of the force to a non-force sensitive admiral who routinely defeated or countered force sensitive leaders successfully and routinely? I think not Sel. I'm not demeaning or dismissing Meetra, she just isn't on Nek's level and will be playing catch-up throughout this match.

 

"There's nobody aboard Healing Star but a few mouse droids. Admiral Bwua'tu said you were going to attack it."

―Jedi Grand Master Luke Skywalker reveals the extent of Admiral Bwua'tu's tactical predictions just prior to killing Lomi Plo

 

Having Wedge leading fighter wings from his personal starfighter however tips the republic reborn over the edge Tacticians wise, they can coordinate better than Nek ever could given how much he'd have to handle. When your capital ships are going down and your fighters are being scattered, which does one tactician pick? The answer doesn't matter, since Surik and Wedge can handle both.

Wedge in a fighter is extremely vulnerable considering the Resistance has twice the number of fighters, and their fighters are better. But if you feel that's what he'd do then the Reborn loses a coordinating asset and gains minimal in-flight leadership for a few of their 2k fighters.

 

As for Battle Meditation, I don't honestly think Nomi's will play a large part. Battlefield meditation requires someone to actually be aware of the battle, communicate with all of their forces subconsciously etc. The Distance she would have to cover in my opinion is too great, it will weaken her hold.

Surik's battle meditation was usually only used as a buff to her own armada, so she will be pouring more power into her soldiers from a closer distance, than Nomi could pour into both armies from such a huge distance away.

 

I believe they'd cancel each other out, with Surik perhaps taking a negligibly small advantage.

 

I have more to post after this has been debated. I'll also copy this into my post on the Front Page to allow for easier viewing, and for it not to get lost.

Your forget Sel, she's sitting on a LS Nexus! Distance is nothing to her at this point. And as evidenced by the CA vs. RR match Sunrider has perhaps the most powerful Battle med of anyone while Surik has a mediocre version at best.

Edited November 6, 2014 by StarSquirrel

[Selenial]

You'd be wrong. Nek won the Thrawn Simulator (which to that point was unbeaten even by some of the greatest tactical minds of that time period) with no real fleet command experience. That is the impressive part Sel. Not only that, it was his tactics that led to the toppling of perhaps the single deadliest force to have ever attacked the galaxy (Vong). He won several engagements during the Second Galactic Civil War over some other talented leaders... He developed some of the greatest naval tactics in the galaxy and was hailed as a hero on a planet which is known for great admirals.

 

He lives up to the hype and this isn't bias on everyone elses part, it is bias on your part Sel. That is obvious by your next statement.

 

Heh.

Just because you have never led a fleet of warships before doesn't mean you're inexperienced, he had at least studied Naval warfare which is all Surik had done as well.

 

How is him beating a computer that lacked all the Skill of the real deal, better than her single handedly pushing back the Mandalorians? And I say single handedly, since neither Revan or Malak led the numbers of battles she did.

She had never in her life led a fleet battle either.

 

You're going to compare Meetra, by all accounts a decent general who has the advantage of the force to a non-force sensitive admiral who routinely defeated or countered force sensitive leaders successfully and routinely? I think not Sel. I'm not demeaning or dismissing Meetra, she just isn't on Nek's level and will be playing catch-up throughout this match.

 

"There's nobody aboard Healing Star but a few mouse droids. Admiral Bwua'tu said you were going to attack it."

―Jedi Grand Master Luke Skywalker reveals the extent of Admiral Bwua'tu's tactical predictions just prior to killing Lomi Plo

That quote is taken unbelievably out of context. Luke leaked that Mara Jade and Jacen were aboard that Vessel, in critical condition.

 

What idiot Wouldn't attack it?

 

How is force sensitivity anything to do with this? She never actively employed Battle Meditation, it was all subconcious as many of her talents were, and because of this it was less Potent.

 

Again she's done just as many impressive things as Nek has done, just as Nek helped to push back the Vong, she pushed back the Mandalorians alone. With a smaller fleet, a more inexperienced Force and a rag tag team of Jedi.

Wedge in a fighter is extremely vulnerable considering the Resistance has twice the number of fighters, and their fighters are better. But if you feel that's what he'd do then the Reborn loses a coordinating asset and gains minimal in-flight leadership for a few of their 2k fighters.

He doesn't have to be in a fighter, however once the enemy is lured in I think he would be. With a wing of starfighters protecting him, and Dagger wing at his back, he won't go down. Dagger wing being the best wing of starfighter pilots in the entire Republic, as good in the skies as Havoc was on the ground. Their constant string of successes against impossible odds was a huge upper of Morale in the fleet.

 

Also the Revanchists flew in the skies constantly, they don't even need to be taken from the ground force as they count as my naval officers.

However I do agree for the first portion of the battle he will lead his fighters from the bridge.

 

Your forget Sel, she's sitting on a LS Nexus! Distance is nothing to her at this point. And as evidenced by the CA vs. RR match Sunrider has perhaps the most powerful Battle med of anyone while Surik has a mediocre version at best.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but I'll reply as if you aren't.

Nomi's battle meditation is good, but it has never been used from Planet side before, and never to the extent where it battles someone elses.

The Temple is a good Light Side Nexus, but it is the only reason she can even contemplate reaching her fleet, and it is not as powerful of a Nexus as the Praxeum on Yavin IV. No Jedi performed strong feats in there, it didn't save them from the 501'st. After all, the only time it's properly described is during the construction of the Jedi Temple, where it was described as an Above average concentration of force Energy.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Selenial

[tunewalker]

Time for the wonky ways of fleet calcs, This is only cap ship vs cap ship to start, fighter numbers and point defense cannons are meaningless here.

 

 

 

Imperius vs Viscount.

 

Honestly looking at these 2, they probably cancel each other out. The Imperius took on an entire "Fleet" (Size unknown) of smaller warships, and thats what the Viscounts were meant to do as well. Though it is a prototype, they have similar Size, firepower, and considering both are Mon Cal Designs..... Which actually begs the question of the Legality of the Imperius to begin with, Unless this is the Imperious (Pallaeon-class) in which a Duh Kuat. And if that's the one then the Advantage goes to the Viscount. The Imperious (pallaeon-class) was slightly larger then an IMP II with slightly more fire power, and better shielding. IT never took on a Fleet single handedly to my recollection. Pure firepower and defensive, advantage goes to the Viscount against Imperious (pallaeon-class). The Alliance (Imperious-class) Is illegal, as no member of the Resistance would have had access to it.

 

 

 

18 Interdictor-class Cruiser vs 6 Venator-class

 

 

Interdictor 5 Medium Turbo Batteries. As a cruiser each battery is made up of 3 Turbo Cannons. (see early debates with Sel, where we showed different "groupings" of guns that were specified and how Destroyers commonly grouped in 5 and cruisers commonly grouped in 3, while heavy cruisers commonly grouped in a mix, and Frigates mixed between 3 and 2. Battery size depending on Ship size. As a cruiser the battery here would number 3.

 

Each Interdictor, thus has 15 Turbo Cannons x 18 Interdictors= 270 Turbo Cannons of Capship firepower

 

 

Venator: 8 Dual Heavy Turrets, Efficiency wise worth 16. I dont see anything about the claimed 12, and even with it, the Venator sacrifices shield strength for it, which since this is pure face to face calc (tactics dont come into play here) shield strength matters, every ounce of shield strength lost counts against the gun. The most efficient way then is obviously with the average the shield strength good and hardy, while gun strength equally so.

2 Dual Turbo cannons

4 Heavy Torp tubes

 

Overall Firepower of 6= 16x 6 Dual Heavies 2 x 6 Dual's and 4 x 6 heavy Torps= 96 Dual heavies, 12 duals, and heavy 24 Torps.

 

Duals have more firepower then standards, as do heavies.... as such for standard turbo laser strength, I am adding a 1.5x multiplier to duals and a 2x multiplier to heavies...... recalcs say

 

3x 96 (both multiliers together here)= 288+ (12 x 1.5)= 306 Turbo lasers and 48 Torps of Capship Firepower. Pure cap ship firepower and Cap ship defensives go to the Venators. May offset the slight advantage of the Reborn's Flagship

 

 

 

13 Acclamator 1 vs 13 hammer head

 

13 Hammerheads (if I recall the info may be incorrect here I appoligize, I can only go off of what i have access to)

 

4 Dual heavy turbos and 2 Turbo's x 13 = 52 Dual heavy and 26 Turbo, as before Multipliers added to Dual Heavy means total Turbo fire = 52 x 3( both multipliers here) + 26= 182 Turbo lasers of capship Fire power

 

 

13 Acclamator 1

 

12 Quad Turbo cannons x 13, and 4 Proton Tubes x 13=

 

156 Quad turbo and 52 Proton tubes of fire power. Again we know that Quads are even better then Duals, but its definitely not "quadruple" the damage, as such I am only putting a 2x multiplier on it, just as I would with Heavies, mostly because Quads often fire in "2 linked" mode to keep a decent rate of fire while also adding punching strength with out overheating it. though other modes exist and are used, that is for tactial purposes

 

Total Turbo Firepower= 156 x 2= 312 Turbo lasers and 52 Torpedoes of Capship fire power

 

Now it appears so far that the Resistance is taking the lead in Capship fighting power, BUT we have forgotten 1 Reborn ship.

 

5 Enduranc-class

 

12 Turbo x 5 + 8 Ion cannon x 5= 60 Turbo lasers and 40 Ion Cannons. This adds an additional 100 Turbo Lasers of Cap ship fire power to Shields while adding 65 Turbo lasers of fire power to hull (ion cannons do still do damage to a ships hull, just not as much as standard cannons)

 

 

 

 

Total Fleet Turbo lasers of capship firepower (this doesnt include the flagships as I am unclear of what is going on there)

 

Resistance= 306 + 312= 618 Turbo Lasers of firepower and 48 + 52= 100 Torpedoes of Capship fire power

Total firepower= 618 Turbo lasers and 100 Torpedoes. (actual number of guns less meaning ability to spread firepower is less, Heavy torps are being counted as double just as heavy turbo's would be, but 1 point defense taking it down takes out the whole thing so it would be effectively losing 2 Torpedoes of firepower)

 

Reborn= 182 + 270 + 100= 552 Turbo lasers of Cap Ship Shield firepower (Loses less ability to spread around compared to resistance, but still less then shown here) and 182 + 270 +65= 517 Turbo lasers of Cap ship Hull firepower (second verse same as the first)

 

 

In cap ship firepower (not including Flagship) the winner is the Resistance, though flagships could EASILY sway it in Reborns Favor.

Edited November 6, 2014 by tunewalker

[Selenial]

Interdictor 5 Medium Turbo Batteries. As a cruiser each battery is made up of 3 Turbo Cannons. (see early debates with Sel, where we showed different "groupings" of guns that were specified and how Destroyers commonly grouped in 5 and cruisers commonly grouped in 3, while heavy cruisers commonly grouped in a mix, and Frigates mixed between 3 and 2. Battery size depending on Ship size. As a cruiser the battery here would number 3.

 

Battery sizes is actually listed individually in each sourcebook, for the Interdictor it is 5.

 

Also, the wookieepedia pages you inspected were out of date and Generally incorrect, see my analysis was more accurate IMO and can be found a few pages back.

 

Edit, Here you are Tune:

Ship to Ship:

 

Personally I believe Single ship vs Single Ship comparisons are less than meaningless, they provide a biased view of the battle as they make someone gauge a Ship as a singular force, not as a fleet which this battle is obviously focusing on. Even Light Capital ships vs Light Capital ships, this is not one Hammerhead vs an Accalamtor, it is 13 Acclamators vs 13 hammerheads and 5 Endurance class's.

 

With that said, here is the total firepower my fleet possesses:

260 Double Light Laser canons. (Note, this doesn't mean Less than Light, as some assume, it means a twin barrel)

383 Turbolasers

353 heavy Turbolasers.

130 Medium Turbolasers,

450 Quad Turbolaser Canons

860 Point Defense Canons,

35 assault Concussion Missile tubes

and 53 Heavy Ion Canons.

 

Rayla's fleet in Comparison:

48 DBY-827 Canons

12 Medium Dual turbolaser canons

48 Turbolasers

624 Point Defense laser canons

24 Heavy Proton Tubes

156 Quad Turbolaser canons

65 proton tubes

25 Octupette canons,

25 Heavy Ion canons

 

To roll with a comparison here, simpled down the Republic Reborn has:

251 more Turbolasers

294 more Quad Turbolasers

353 more heavy Turbolasers

236 more Point Defense laser canons

35 more concussion missile launchers

28 more Heavy Ion canons

at the expense of

48 DBY-827 Canons

65 Proton Torpedo Tubes

and 24 heavy proton tubes

 

NB: above I factored in 25 Octupettes as worth 200 standard Turbolasers.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2014 by Selenial

[tunewalker]

Battery sizes is actually listed individually in each sourcebook, for the Interdictor it is 5.

 

Also, the wookieepedia pages you inspected were out of date and Generally incorrect, see my analysis was more accurate IMO and can be found a few pages back.

 

Oh thank you, I do appoligize, I knew some of the information was out of date. Where did you get the info for Battery size on the Interdictor. I was under the impression we had difficulties on that last time, which is why we found the size commonalities based on ship size.

 

Edit: i would like to see what is on every ship so I can more easily do my own calcs to make sure nothing was accidentally missed, but I do appreciate this.... let me take that info and recalc down to "pure turbo" firepower IE capship only we will deal with fighter defenses later.

Edited November 6, 2014 by tunewalker

[Selenial]

Oh thank you, I do appoligize, I knew some of the information was out of date. Where did you get the info for Battery size on the Interdictor. I was under the impression we had difficulties on that last time, which is why we found the size commonalities based on ship size.

 

Edit: i would like to see what is on every ship so I can more easily do my own calcs to make sure nothing was accidentally missed, but I do appreciate this.... let me take that info and recalc down to "pure turbo" firepower

 

I can get the individual ships to you after this Smite match, complete with Sourcebook quotes if need be.

 

Under each article is the amount of gunners in each battery, and it varies from ship to ship so it seems to fit.

[tunewalker]

I can get the individual ships to you after this Smite match, complete with Sourcebook quotes if need be.

 

Under each article is the amount of gunners in each battery, and it varies from ship to ship so it seems to fit.

 

Thank you very much, if you wish to post it here or PM it to me that would be great. Going to head out do some chores and head to the bank. Will repost my calcs (showing my math as I did there) when I get home.

 

 

Edit: my philosophy on fleet combat is a multi faceted break down as usual. 1 Facet is Ship to ship, then its Fleet to fleet. Cap ship vs Cap Ship, both ship to ship and fleet to fleet (emphasis on fleet to fleet), Fighter vs fighter (both ship to ship and again Fleet to fleet, emphasis on fleet to fleet), Cap ship vs Fighter (third verse same as the first 2), and Fighter vs Cap ship break downs (same as before), in addition to likely and known tactics I will leave tactics to others. i dont know who is fighting who, nor do I care, I just want to look at cool ships. Yes overall emphasis is on fleet to fleet, as this is NOT a duel, this is a battle.

Edited November 6, 2014 by tunewalker

[Aurbere]

Again I don't think 250 to 500 is small by any stretch of the imagination, the Venator-class star destroyer is a military-grade carrier built by the most illustrious shipyards for the wealthiest government of the time.

 

We are dealing with Hutts here, they don't even have a standing fleet, let alone military grade shipyards.

 

Anyway its up to Aurbere to decide what is "small" in this respect and I'll abide by his decision.

 

OK, I'm going to make a decision here. The Hutts can provide a small quantity of fighter-class vessels. A wing, or so. However, said craft is not available instantly. They need to travel there from wherever the nearest Hutt controlled world is.