Need Hard Mode OP queues, too. With Gear checker.

[Alec_Fortescue]

I can't get a team for regular raiding becuase of my work. I'd like to have a Hard Mode group finder, too. Nightmare - okay - I can forget about nightmare but why do you prevent me from doing hard mode ops through the group finder?

[Torvai]

Did you ever pugged DF/DP HM? If yes, then you have your answer

[Alec_Fortescue]

No time to look for pugs

[Gardimuer]

No time to look for pugs

 

You assume sitting in queue would be any faster?

 

The people capable of completing HMs are relatively few, and the people willing to pug HMs are even fewer. Your chances of getting a pop for it if they implemented GF would be slim to zero.

[killerdcs]

Wil not work. Wy? Ppl like op. Hm DF/DP tru GF wil bring out all the ppl how wane get carry tru. No time to do HM then u cant do HM. Cant have ure cake and eat it too.

[rantboi]

SM ops through group finder are terrible enough, I don't even want to imagine what HM would be like

[ELRunninW]

Three words: buff, buff, buff

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I think it's a good idea personally. If you don't like it and are scared of the results then simply don't queue for it. At the very least it would get a few more people completing HM content to be able to join all the pugs that require you having completed the content ( paradox for anyone not able to run with a guild ).

[ELRunninW]

It will not be a good idea. If you make it available people will demand that they should be allowed to participate no matter what. There is no point of having a queue that is only used by premade groups.

[AshlaBoga]

SM ops through group finder are terrible enough, I don't even want to imagine what HM would be like

 

It's easy to imagine:

 

Op group wipes on trash before 1st boss. Spends 1 hour trying to replace players so they get to boss. Group disbands after boss kills them at 99%.

[Ryuku-sama]

You got it wrong

 

Ops group disband after trash wipe them at 90%

[RikuvonDrake]

I believe this would create even more problems than it would solve, not to mention the increasing amount of frustration. Edited November 5, 2014 by RikuvonDrake

[JouerTue]

it's not a bad idea..but it would take the same if not more time it takes to pug hm ''manually''

 

and for what? more comms? useless since you're there for tokens or RE relics or enhancements

 

btw 90% of the ''show achievement'' runs i joined were successful, while the ''have gear, know tactics'' tend to fail.

i think the best is if you tank it yourself, because that's the role wasting more time to fill..

[Qvasar]

Maybe but...

 

Gear check is completely useless. No amount of gear will save you from people screwing up mechanics, also some undergeared people outperform properly geared ones. An achievement check would be best, and even that won't prevent you from picking up someone who was carried and still doesn't know what he/she is doing.

 

In all honesty no automated system can accurately pick a successful HM group. Having experience putting together PuGs for all kinds of content can say even handpicking people often leads to failure.

[goeblu]

The problem with this is, gear doesnt mean someone is competent with HM ops. Any dummy can get geared in full 180s without stepping foot in HM's. So you will essentially get a bunch of people que'd for HM's that have never been there, know what they are doing, let along know how to play their class properly.

[AshlaBoga]

You got it wrong

 

Ops group disband after trash wipe them at 90%

 

Ha! I suppose that could happen in TFB or Dread Palace.

[Elusive_Thing]

The problem with this is, gear doesnt mean someone is competent with HM ops. Any dummy can get geared in full 180s without stepping foot in HM's. So you will essentially get a bunch of people que'd for HM's that have never been there, know what they are doing, let along know how to play their class properly.

This. It's sad to see how some of the stock 180 crusaders perform even in SM Ops.

[Loc_n_lol]

I'm sorry but this is a terrible idea. Unless you meant HM EV/KP ?

Please stick to jedi robes.

[Rithoma]

I agree with most posts in this thread. A groufinder for HM operations wouldn't lead to anything good.

 

My advice to the OP is that you should be looking for a good raiding guild. My guild farms HM operations almost daily and when you log in around prime time, there is a good chance that a group for HM is already being formed and you can just join. If not, you can just ask in guild chat and about half an hour later you are good to go. And I'm not talking about a raid team here. Just random guildies getting together.

 

Since you seem to have not a lot of time, I would say this is the fastet way to get into HM operations. You wouldn't get very far by using PUGs for HM, even if you could find a group quickly.

 

 

Edit: Gear checker doesn't make much sense either. A high item rating doesn't make good gear.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Rithoma

[MASOLIZ]

I thought he'd ask for a fashion checker....

[Shwarzchild]

The problem with this is, gear doesnt mean someone is competent with HM ops. Any dummy can get geared in full 180s without stepping foot in HM's. So you will essentially get a bunch of people que'd for HM's that have never been there, know what they are doing, let along know how to play their class properly.

 

There was a time you didn't know what you were doing in a hard mode operation as well. Sometimes you have to actually remember there was a time before you knew what you were doing. And, I bet you still don't fully know everything. I haven't been able to do a hard mode DF or DP yet. But, that doesn't mean anything other than I just haven't done one yet thanks to coming back to the game after a long hiatus and needing to re-gear. Sometimes explaining a fight to someone is all it takes. If they learn that's one more person people like you don't need to worry about.

[Macio]

I doubt it would be successful considering how much coordination is required on HM fights.

I don't have anything against it and if it would be there, i hope it would be successful but i wouldn't use it.

 

If anything they should give us a tool to allow to join pre-made groups that struggling to find last spot for their ops. Something like WoW is doing with WoD expansion

[icednerves]

There was a time you didn't know what you were doing in a hard mode operation as well. Sometimes you have to actually remember there was a time before you knew what you were doing. And, I bet you still don't fully know everything. I haven't been able to do a hard mode DF or DP yet. But, that doesn't mean anything other than I just haven't done one yet thanks to coming back to the game after a long hiatus and needing to re-gear. Sometimes explaining a fight to someone is all it takes. If they learn that's one more person people like you don't need to worry about.

 

Even after explaining every detail of a fight doesn't equal success. Especially on HM DF/DP. It takes time and wipes to LEARN the fights and after a few wipes, most PUG groups would give up. If you want to run more HM, find a good guild that does them frequently. HM DF/DP is tough enough even with a regular team until everybody has the chance to learn the fights and mechanics.

[Rithoma]

There was a time you didn't know what you were doing in a hard mode operation as well. Sometimes you have to actually remember there was a time before you knew what you were doing. And, I bet you still don't fully know everything. I haven't been able to do a hard mode DF or DP yet. But, that doesn't mean anything other than I just haven't done one yet thanks to coming back to the game after a long hiatus and needing to re-gear. Sometimes explaining a fight to someone is all it takes. If they learn that's one more person people like you don't need to worry about.

 

I absolutely agree with you. Yet, I think there are some factors that you forgot to consider, because this thread is not only about first timers, but rather about guild runs vs. PUG runs.

 

For guild runs, everything you said is true. A guild group can easily bring in one or two new players, teach them the fights and still have a smooth run. Even if the guild group consists only of first timers, you don't have to end up disappointed even though maybe you wiped a lot on a boss and couldn't finish the ops. But the purpose of the group is to learn and progress, so the group will be ok with it.

 

In PUG runs, on the other hand, you can easily end up with several people who don't kow the ops on HM. Some might even refuse to use TS, which will make it even harder to organize the group. Then you have different players with different expectations (in contrast to a guild progression group). Some veterans who have cleared this content many times and the newbies. So the veterans want a fast and smooth run while the newbies want time to learn to learn the fight. That often brings the conflict.

 

You are right that everyone can learn how to do HM. But HM PUGs are not the environment to learn for first timers. Of course, you can be lucky and end up with 7 veterans in the group. Yet, ask yourself who is more likely to join a PUG run anyway? The veteran who is able to raid HM ops several times a week with his guild or the newbie who is in a guild that he could never do HM ops with?

Edited November 6, 2014 by Rithoma

[Shwarzchild]

I absolutely agree with you. Yet, I think there are some factors that you forgot to consider, because this thread is not only about first timers, but rather about guild runs vs. PUG runs.

 

For guild runs, everything you said is true. A guild group can easily bring in one or two new players, teach them the fights and still have a smooth run. Even if the guild group consists only of first timers, you don't have to end up disappointed even though maybe you wiped a lot on a boss and couldn't finish the ops. But the purpose of the group is to learn and progress, so the group will be ok with it.

 

In PUG runs, on the other hand, you can easily end up with several people who don't kow the ops on HM. Some might even refuse to use TS, which will make it even harder to organize the group. Then you have different players with different expectations (in contrast to a guild progression group). Some veterans who have cleared this content many times and the newbies. So the veterans want a fast and smooth run while the newbies want time to learn to learn the fight. That often brings the conflict.

 

You are right that everyone can learn how to do HM. But HM PUGs are not the environment to learn for first timers. Of course, you can be lucky and end up with 7 veterans in the group. Yet, ask yourself who is more likely to join a PUG run anyway? The veteran who is able to raid HM ops several times a week with his guild or the newbie who is in a guild that he could never do HM ops with?

 

Good points. The only thing I don't want to admit, or accept, is that the guys who enter pug groups are underskilled, and that they would cause the Op to fail more often than it succeeded. I'd agree that they are players who probably haven't been able to raid with their guild yet (since that's pretty much my situation), and I'd also agree that the education of the mechanics isn't probably up to par (for the most part). I just think that maybe we're selling these newbies short a bit here when really it takes a quick second to educate to solve the problems. Maybe this stems from me being a healer, and really I don't have to worry about kill orders or tank swaps. I just get to sit back enjoy the light show and make sure nobody dies. I could also be totally naive to my surroundings. I also can't just dismiss how flashpoints are where people enter with just green gear and the like.

 

I'm wondering if there is a sweet spot we all would enjoy? Maybe make a hard mode group finder operations tab unlockable after they were successful in completing the Oricon operations on story mode? 8 man unlocks the 8 man option, and 16 man unlocks the 16 man option?