changeplaces Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 What the gear gap will be like between people with the new 2 tiers of pvp gear and people new or returning to pvp with old pvp gear in 3.0? Will players be expected t replace old pvp gear and /or gear a certain way before they can contribute to a warzone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Will the gear gap between people using 50/55 gear vs people in lvl 60 gear be big? Probably. If you go into to a WZ with what will become leveling gear 5 levels below cap you deserve to get smoked. Returning players will have 5/10 levels to save comms for end game gear. Looks like you'll have to find a different excuse when 3.0 launches. Edited November 3, 2014 by Capt_Beers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) What the gear gap will be like between people with the new 2 tiers of pvp gear and people new or returning to pvp with old pvp gear in 3.0? Will players be expected t replace old pvp gear and /or gear a certain way before they can contribute to a warzone? Best "guess" is they will do what they did last time and remove expertise from the old gear... Then the old gear will just be 156 or 162 PVE gear... If they don't fix bolster and leave it as it is now... Then this gear will probably bolster to approx entry lvl pvp gear at 60... An example of how it is currently broken is... I have 2 Sorc lvl 55, both madness (one will become a healer after the expansion)... My main is fully geared, tweaked, augmented and BiS with Augments The new one is geared with a mix of all PVE gear... 148 blue mods, etc, purple 152, 154 purple implants/ear... Fully purple 55 augments... She has better stats than my geared Sorc... She has non pvp relics (lvl 29) that just have 55 augments, I did try swapping them for Oberon pvp ones and actually lost a lot of stats and expertise So if they don't fix bolster... You can expect the same sort of thing with your current lvl 55 gear that has (hopefully) had expertise removed Edited November 3, 2014 by Icykill_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Best "guess" is they will do what they did last time and remove expertise from the old gear... Then the old gear will just be 156 or 162 PVE gear... If they don't fix bolster and leave it as it is now... Then this gear will probably bolster to approx entry lvl pvp gear at 60... An example of how it is currently broken is... I have 2 Sorc lvl 55, both madness (one will become a healer after the expansion)... My main is fully geared, tweaked, augmented and BiS with Augments The new one is geared with a mix of all PVE gear... 148 blue mods, etc, purple 152, 154 purple implants/ear... Fully purple 55 augments... She has better stats than my geared Sorc... She has non pvp relics (lvl 29) that just have 55 augments, I did try swapping them for Oberon pvp ones and actually lost a lot of stats and expertise So if they don't fix bolster... You can expect the same sort of thing with your current lvl 55 gear that has (hopefully) had expertise removed They already said they aren't taking the expertise off of gear. Bolster will be changing since the max level is changing so all the values will be adjusted. Can I see some pics of your character sheet to verify what you are claiming about your stats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racter Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) The only reason they removed expertise on WH/EWH is because they changed expertise significantly in 2.0. They are not doing that again so no reason too. Also confirmed they weren't removing expertise. They're also going to count augments for bolster so they can make the gear gap sizable aka actually worth farming. They're shooting for a 20-25% gap between fresh 60 (so current gear with current augments) and the new gear. Hopefully every tier after that as well. No point in having seasonal gear that's 1-3 points better than last seasons. Edited November 4, 2014 by Racter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 They already said they aren't taking the expertise off of gear. Bolster will be changing since the max level is changing so all the values will be adjusted. Can I see some pics of your character sheet to verify what you are claiming about your stats? If they aren't removing expertise, how will they compensate non expertise players pre 60... Or will our expertise gear be useless?... I doubt the current bolster system could handle not removing the expertise... Unless they "are" introducing a new bracket, 55-59... To my knowledge, this hasn't been announced... Do you have any information you are "allowed" to share on those points? Sorry I don't post pics of my toons... People Troll to hard in the actual game if they know who you are... Learnt that from WoW... If you want to test it, go to the bolster terminal on the fleet and play around with some pieces of your gear... Just make sure it has a similar stat mix as the slot you are testing against and don't have any expertise mixed in with that piece Also have a read of this thread on different ways to do it - http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=707204 Go to the end and work your way back... The beginning is a bit out of date... But does give you an idea on how it works L-Randle spent a lot of time testing and I have spent too many hours and credits doing the same... LoL I have also found that sometimes when you replace a blue 148 mod, say with a purple 156 mod... It goes up... Then you do the same thing in another piece and it drops again... It is a fickle system... And basically trial and error Also note your main stats (in the upper stat column next to your pic) show less than your higher end gear... Ignore this and only look at the stats for melee, force, ranged or tech, depending on your class... This is where bolster boosts those stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 If they aren't removing expertise, how will they compensate non expertise players pre 60... Or will our expertise gear be useless?... I doubt the current bolster system could handle not removing the expertise... Unless they "are" introducing a new bracket, 55-59... To my knowledge, this hasn't been announced... Do you have any information you are "allowed" to share on those points? Sorry I don't post pics of my toons... People Troll to hard in the actual game if they know who you are... Learnt that from WoW... If you want to test it, go to the bolster terminal on the fleet and play around with some pieces of your gear... Just make sure it has a similar stat mix as the slot you are testing against and don't have any expertise mixed in with that piece Also have a read of this thread on different ways to do it - http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=707204 Go to the end and work your way back... The beginning is a bit out of date... But does give you an idea on how it works L-Randle spent a lot of time testing and I have spent too many hours and credits doing the same... LoL I have also found that sometimes when you replace a blue 148 mod, say with a purple 156 mod... It goes up... Then you do the same thing in another piece and it drops again... It is a fickle system... And basically trial and error Also note your main stats (in the upper stat column next to your pic) show less than your higher end gear... Ignore this and only look at the stats for melee, force, ranged or tech, depending on your class... This is where bolster boosts those stats. Thank you for pointing out where my stats are in my character sheet I never would have been able to find them without you. While leveling the six 55's in my sig I was never able to locate it. print screen > windows + r > mspaint > ctrl + v > go nuts with the black paint brush on your name. I don't have my computer with SWTOR installed with me. I just moved and it's shipping tomorrow or I would test it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Thank you for pointing out where my stats are in my character sheet I never would have been able to find them without you. While leveling the six 55's in my sig I was never able to locate it. print screen > windows + r > mspaint > ctrl + v > go nuts with the black paint brush on your name. I don't have my computer with SWTOR installed with me. I just moved and it's shipping tomorrow or I would test it myself. Oh Man... I wasn't trying to be condescending with my response about where to look at the stats, just being thorough if other non experienced players wanted to try it... I've had discussions with people telling me in game that they see no increase in those stats from bolster and there fore it doesn't work... Sorry to offend you I too am with out my PC at the moment... I am on a job... When you get your PC back you can go check... I'm sure a few days to a week won't hurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
changeplaces Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 Will the gear gap between people using 50/55 gear vs people in lvl 60 gear be big? Probably. If you go into to a WZ with what will become leveling gear 5 levels below cap you deserve to get smoked. Returning players will have 5/10 levels to save comms for end game gear. Looks like you'll have to find a different excuse when 3.0 launches. Yep, and likely you will find these people on your team as much as on the opposite side, leaving you to complain about carrying bads on your team. I'm not even qq-ing about you having the divine right to destroy me as you have earned your gear. I'm asking in the POV of someone new to or returning to pvping at max level and how much of a gear gap s.he will experience by just jumping in and thus how much s/he may enjoy the experience. Really, should there actually even be a barrier to entry for lvl 60 unranked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Yep, and likely you will find these people on your team as much as on the opposite side, leaving you to complain about carrying bads on your team. I'm not even qq-ing about you having the divine right to destroy me as you have earned your gear. I'm asking in the POV of someone new to or returning to pvping at max level and how much of a gear gap s.he will experience by just jumping in and thus how much s/he may enjoy the experience. Really, should there actually even be a barrier to entry for lvl 60 unranked? If someone returns to the game that has level 55/50 gear and levels to 60 without doing a single WZ and has no comms then that is their problem. 5-10 levels is plenty of time to at least max out your regular comms (10 levels is more than enough). So yes, if you level to end game while avoiding getting the gear you need to be competitive that is your problem. Most people who are "coming back" will likely be level 55. They will have 5 levels to get some WZ comms and gear up. That is plenty of time to at least get a few pieces if not more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
changeplaces Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 If someone returns to the game that has level 55/50 gear and levels to 60 without doing a single WZ and has no comms then that is their problem. 5-10 levels is plenty of time to at least max out your regular comms (10 levels is more than enough). So yes, if you level to end game while avoiding getting the gear you need to be competitive that is your problem. Most people who are "coming back" will likely be level 55. They will have 5 levels to get some WZ comms and gear up. That is plenty of time to at least get a few pieces if not more. And if they decide to quest to 60 instead, they should never ever try pvp, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vennian Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) They're also going to count augments for bolster so they can make the gear gap sizable aka actually worth farming. They're shooting for a 20-25% gap between fresh 60 (so current gear with current augments) and the new gear. Source for those claims? As I read it, they are doing bolster for augments to LESSEN the gear gar for unaugmented people. Widening the gear gap is detrimental to getting more people into PVP Edited November 4, 2014 by vennian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramtar Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) Source for those claims? As I read it, they are doing bolster for augments to LESSEN the gear gar for unaugmented people. Widening the gear gap is detrimental to getting more people into PVP check out feeds. 2018 Expertise will remain in effect for 3.0 Edited November 5, 2014 by Ramtar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 And if they decide to quest to 60 instead, they should never ever try pvp, right? No one who calls themselves a PvPer is going to quest to level 60. And if for whatever reason they do quest to 60, anyone who PvPs semi regularly will have some comms, probably at least enough for bracers/belt. If a PvE player quests to 60 and has no level 60 PvP gear (or decides to use gear that is 5/10 levels below cap) then there is going to be a gear gap, the same one that they have now. Nothing will be different. If you avoid the content you won't have the gear for it. Every PvPer is going to have to get all new gear as well it's like it's being gifted to us. Everyone has to do the gear grind for whatever content they do. Bolster will be there to help the undergeared. Doing no PvP and expecting to be geared for it is the same as trying to go in to an Op with only story mission gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
changeplaces Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) And not everyone who pvps in unranked is supposed to be a pvper. Why should lowbies be the entry point for unranked pvp? If someone decides to try out pvp from max level in whatever gear they have, what is the gear gap going to be like as opposed to someone with tire 1 or tier 2 gear? I never said anything about getting the gear u got with your precious gear grind for free. I'm asking how much of a difference it will be. Make it too big and you discourage new players from trying once they hit max level or pvping that that pve geared tank that they never pvped with but always wanted to try out. Or is max level unranked pvp supposed to be hard mode where if you never pvped in lowbies, you should never try it out? Edited November 5, 2014 by changeplaces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 If they aren't removing expertise, how will they compensate non expertise players pre 60... Or will our expertise gear be useless?... I doubt the current bolster system could handle not removing the expertise... Unless they "are" introducing a new bracket, 55-59... To my knowledge, this hasn't been announced... Do you have any information you are "allowed" to share on those points? 2018 will still be the expertise cap, so current PvP won't be outright bad, particularly since it should have augs in it. Note there is abolster for augs in 3.0, but having augs should still be better than not having augs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vennian Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) check out feeds. 2018 Expertise will remain in effect for 3.0 Yeah, expertise and bolster will fortunately remain in effect. I was wondering about the silly claim that bolster for augments would increase the gear gap. As I see it, they are bolstering augments so that unaugmented players wont have a considerable gear disadvantage compared to augmented players Edited November 5, 2014 by vennian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 And not everyone who pvps in unranked is supposed to be a pvper. Why should lowbies be the entry point for unranked pvp? If someone decides to try out pvp from max level in whatever gear they have, what is the gear gap going to be like as opposed to someone with tire 1 or tier 2 gear? I never said anything about getting the gear u got with your precious gear grind for free. I'm asking how much of a difference it will be. Make it too big and you discourage new players from trying once they hit max level or pvping that that pve geared tank that they never pvped with but always wanted to try out. Or is max level unranked pvp supposed to be hard mode where if you never pvped in lowbies, you should never try it out? Probably the same as it is now. What's your point? Either way it's irrelevant since you can gear rather quickly. If you do only the daily everyday you can have a piece a week at least. If someone at max level who had never PvPed before all the sudden loves PvP they can be completely geared up in normal PvP gear in about a week if they go hard or 2 or 3 weeks playing casually. Due to bolster the gear gap is all but non-existent. If brand new PVPers are struggling in regs it's probably more due to inexperience than gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 The gear gap is actually going to be bigger. Based on the live stream, bolster will take augments into consideration and give you some stats if you don't have augments which is probably a win for PvP. They stated that this was a large portion of the gear gap between bolster and full PvP gear. Unfortunately, they also mentioned that since augments were being accounted for with bolster, it left an opening to make the actual stats on the gear better for PvP gear as opposed to what you get when bolstered. So if you were playing without augments today in PvE gear, you'll be better off in 3.0. If you were playing with augments in PvE gear today, then you'll be worse off in 3.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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