Kurin Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I realize that all of the combat changes in 3.0 are not solidified, but having watched the live stream from last week, and given it some thought, of all of the changes being propose, the potential that taunts *could* miss after 3.0 has me the most concerned. I completely get that this is primarily targeted at lowering the damage reduction that taunt is having in PVP by non tank classes. That's great. Taunt is definitely a powerful CD in PVP by the DPS versions of tanks classes. Giving taunt a chance to miss in PVP and lengthening the CD, by a non-tank sounds like a great idea. Please...implement it. But in PVE, if a taunt misses during an operation encounter, the taunt is going to go on a longer cooldown than today, and whatever mechanic was needed to be mitigated by that taunt is now untanked for this now longer time period. I can't think of any scenario where a missed taunt for 12 seconds is unlikely to result in a wipe or at least 1 person dead. That's a pretty serious miss, particularly when the tank actually did their job and taunted when they were supposed to. It would be one thing if they didn't taunt and we wiped...but when the do taunt and we wipe...that's going to get annoying in a new york minute. To prevent this, tanks are going to be forced to gear up at least some level of accuracy. Hopefully, it's actually possible to get enough accuracy to prevent missing, but it seems to me that there are encounters that exist today, where it may not even be possible to stack enough accuracy. For example, taunting off a monster from NiM Dread Master Bestia, when 1 tank has 2 monsters and they are seriously buffing each other. The buffed monsters have a huge amount of defense when they are close to each other....missing taunts may be unpreventable in that scenario. And the DPS check is insane with perfect taunts...you don't have 12 seconds longer with them stacked. For most things, I'm willing to give BW the benefit of the doubt, until I see it. However, we've been down this road before with SWTOR. Taunts were able to miss (or be resisted) prior to 2.0. QoL was not good. PUG tanks, the rarest of all players in the game, need tank mechanics that are clear and predictable. They need help from the game to make their job easier, not harder. Lowering tank DPS (which equates to even more difficulty holding aggro), and having taunts potentially miss is just not the correct direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Might need some accuracy... /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamennebbie Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Tank stances will provide 10% additional accuracy for tanks. Special ops bosses mechanics aside, you will be able to hit and taunt reliably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Stat allowances at level 60 > stat allowances at level 55. Room for some accuracy. 10% accuracy bonus from tank stances = default 110% force / tech accuracy. Chance of miss very very low; give yourself an extra 1-2% from gear and it is extremely unlikely, though not impossible, that a taunt could miss. Basically, I think the idea is that in PVP, a taunt could miss an opponent using a defensive such as saber ward. Bosses rarely have defense boosting, so I suspect this won't really be an issue in PVE. Edited November 3, 2014 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaricSevGirl Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 And we all know that PvP is more important than PvE to Bioware when it comes to balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Tank stances will provide 10% additional accuracy for tanks. Special ops bosses mechanics aside, you will be able to hit and taunt reliably. I still can't believe they are actually going to do that. If it was just a troll. Edited November 3, 2014 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 And we all know that PvP is more important than PvE to Bioware when it comes to balance. Wouldn't go that far as to say that. The aim is to balance both; the detriment goes both ways. In this case it seems like it won't cause too big an issue for PVE. PVP, you have to be careful who you taunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I still can't believe they are actually going to do that. If it was just a troll. Doubtful it was trolling. Just a way to assist in tanks missing out on threat from resisted attacks because they are stacking mitigation, not accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurin Posted November 3, 2014 Author Share Posted November 3, 2014 I'll repeat my point: the chance to miss a tuant needs to be zero. It needs to be possible for a tank, in tank gear to NEVER miss a taunt. In every fight, in every operation, in every scenario. It needs to be impossible to miss a taunt. If 111 or 112% accuracy will ensure a tank can NEVER miss, then that's fine. But the live steam seemed to indicate they weren't sure if having more accuracy for Ops encounters was going to be enough. Hopefully over the next month they figure it out. I'll still re-iterate...I believe this is a change for the worse, not the better. I love the Discipline system. I love the DPS "nerf". I love most of what we are hearing about 3.0. This...I'm not behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Taunts *could* miss before 2.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpope Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Unless the boss has a defense buff or you have an accuracy debuff applied, you should be fine. If and when certain bosses have mechanics that do one of those things, you can either gear more accuracy or if there are only 1 or 2 instances in a fight, an Accuracy Adrenal. And I'm pretty sure taunts couldn't miss prior to 2.0 because they were counted as Force / Tech and accuracy only applied to Melee / Ranged. When 2.0 dropped, BW had to put special checks in place to prevent taunts from missing. I could be wrong about that, it was a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacta Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Raiding will suck if taunts can miss. I play games for fun and having a raid wipe because a tank that taunts on time is met with a slap in the face from the RNG god is not my idea of fun. "Oh, sorry guys, Bob's taunt missed for our needed tank swap. Rez in area and someone pop repair droid plz. Lulz." Yeah... no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Unless the boss has a defense buff or you have an accuracy debuff applied, you should be fine. If and when certain bosses have mechanics that do one of those things, you can either gear more accuracy or if there are only 1 or 2 instances in a fight, an Accuracy Adrenal. And I'm pretty sure taunts couldn't miss prior to 2.0 because they were counted as Force / Tech and accuracy only applied to Melee / Ranged. When 2.0 dropped, BW had to put special checks in place to prevent taunts from missing. I could be wrong about that, it was a long time ago. They could miss pre-2.0 in the same sense that they could miss in post-3.0. Pre-2.0 Force/Tech attacks never missed because bosses didn't have any defense that would cause it to, but they could have. And in fact in 2.0 they started to miss when BioWare added 10% defense to bosses, which caused all Force/Tech to start missing. They fixed this for taunts by explicitly making them not resistable. In 3.0 they're removing that special property from taunts, but also giving tanks an extra 10% accuracy. That accuracy directly cancels out the 10% defense on bosses. So we're in the same situation as pre-2.0. Taunts and other tank abilities could miss, but they won't. Edited November 3, 2014 by MillionsKNives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Basically, I think the idea is that in PVP, a taunt could miss an opponent using a defensive such as saber ward. Bosses rarely have defense boosting, so I suspect this won't really be an issue in PVE. No, taunt is force/tech, the vast majority of defensive abilities in PvP only affect M/R. The only affects capable of causing a taunt to miss is Assassin's resilience, Pyro's Chaff flare, and Diversion from a sniper. That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loc_n_lol Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Raiding will suck if taunts can miss. I play games for fun and having a raid wipe because a tank that taunts on time is met with a slap in the face from the RNG god is not my idea of fun. "Oh, sorry guys, Bob's taunt missed for our needed tank swap. Rez in area and someone pop repair droid plz. Lulz." Yeah... no thanks. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I can't think of any ops boss that has more than 10% tech/force resist (except for brief phases where they get 100+%), or an accuracy debuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levram Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 They could miss pre-2.0 in the same sense that they could miss in post-3.0. Pre-2.0 Force/Tech attacks never missed because bosses didn't have any defense that would cause it to, but they could have. And in fact in 2.0 they started to miss when BioWare added 10% defense to bosses, which caused all Force/Tech to start missing. They fixed this for taunts by explicitly making them not resistable. In 3.0 they're removing that special property from taunts, but also giving tanks an extra 10% accuracy. That accuracy directly cancels out the 10% defense on bosses. So we're in the same situation as pre-2.0. Taunts and other tank abilities could miss, but they won't. Everyone please re-read the above post because it is the correct explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torvai Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Taunts from a tank won't miss, although they could, in 3.0 You get +10% accuracy from tank stance, taunts probably will be a "special attack", or force/tech attack As such it'll have a base accuracy of 100%+10% from tank stance=won't miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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