Flagging system

[BuriDogshin]

Yea, he "popped" out of stealth alright, when OP let him have both barrels point blank

 

No. The greifer popped out of stealth when the greifer killed the mob the Op had been fighting.

 

Unfortunately, I checked the ToS, and telling lies on the Forums isn't a ban-worthy offense.

[HammerOneOne]

The guy who attacked you is a gutless coward who is too scared to do any real PvP...that was established by how he popped out of stealth in your opening post. He's a d-bag...nothing else. I don't think anyone here is defending what he did...I'm certainly not.

 

However...he didn't exploit anything other than player laziness...and there's nothing Bioware can do to fix that.

 

Clearly you don't understand the definition of gutless or coward. It doesn't apply in anyway to a video game. Ever.

[HammerOneOne]

/facepalm

 

 

 

OP ATTACKED WITHOUT LOOKING.

 

 

Yes he did. You guys can say it over and over. But the fact is that a pvp/griefer timed a shot at the last second.

[Foambreaker]

Clearly you don't understand the definition of gutless or coward. It doesn't apply in anyway to a video game. Ever.

 

Wrong again.

 

Insulting the winner makes the vanquished feel better about themselves.

 

So it does have a purpose

[BuriDogshin]

Clearly you don't understand the definition of gutless or coward. It doesn't apply in anyway to a video game. Ever.

Sure it does. There's no activity so petty and inconsequential that you cannot be gutless and cowardly in the doing of it. That the stakes are so small just makes the cowardice that much more damning: if a person cannot be courageous when the risks are inconsequential, will they somehow find courage when the risk is grave? I doubt it.

 

In a video game, you get to be who you want to be without much risk of any life-altering consequences.

Apparently, some people want to be cowardly back-shooting jerks.

[HammerOneOne]

Wrong again.

 

Insulting the winner makes the vanquished feel better about themselves.

 

So it does have a purpose

 

No insult. Just stating that you guys don't know how to apply those two words.

 

You on the other hand have thrown out plenty of insults and clearly you can't take the heat so you resort to reporting people.

 

PsyOps. That's where you got your combat experience. It must be because now all you are doing is repeating the same tired lines over and over in hopes everyone will just give up.

[TUXs]

Clearly you don't understand the definition of gutless or coward. It doesn't apply in anyway to a video game. Ever.

Clearly you fail to realize we're on a video game forum. Go take your RL tough guy act somewhere else...we're debating GAME mechanics...in the scope of "video games", the guy was a coward. He might be as tough as you irl...but that's not what we're talking about is it?! We're talking about his in game actions.

Edited November 5, 2014 by TUXs

[HammerOneOne]

Clearly you fail to realize we're on a video game forum. Go take your RL tough guy act somewhere else...we're debating GAME mechanics...in the scope of "video games", the guy was a coward. He might be as tough as you irl...but that's not what we're talking about is it?! We're talking about his in game actions.

 

OK. then you and foamroller are the cowards by trying to force someone into PvP. See you guys can make points once in a while.

 

And I'm not the one that keeps trying to compare this to real life. I believe you two started that waaay back at the beginning of this thread.

Edited November 5, 2014 by HammerOneOne

[Jadescythe]

No, actually, it's just the same people going back and forth. With one claiming no one has made a valid point by simply ignoring any point that doesn't agree with his view. If you go by number of posters instead of number of posts, you can't really draw a conclusion as to support or not for any solution or for no change at all.

 

I'm not sure what change is worth making. Turning off auto-target is already in game and resolves the issue. Why would the devs need to spend time fixing a potential issue that is already solved? Like I said, perhaps make the default setting off rather than on, but no mechanics need to change.

[TUXs]

OK. then you and foamroller are the cowards by trying to force someone into PvP. See you guys can make points once in a while.

Huh...how have I tried to force anyone into PvP? As I stated earlier, I play on a PvP server. I've not once defended what the guy did either. What's your problem here Hammer?!

[Foambreaker]

OK. then you and foamroller are the cowards by trying to force someone into PvP. See you guys can make points once in a while.

 

And I'm not the one that keeps trying to compare this to real life. I believe you two started that waaay back at the beginning of this thread.

 

I stood over OP IRL and forced him to give that bad PvPer both barrels point blank, he was like nooo, wrong target, don't shoot.

[azudelphi]

OK. then you and foamroller are the cowards by trying to force someone into PvP. See you guys can make points once in a while.

 

And I'm not the one that keeps trying to compare this to real life. I believe you two started that waaay back at the beginning of this thread.

 

All irrelevant.

 

TUXs and I have already agreed that auto-target not jumping to flagged players may be sufficient a change. Allows for tactical strikes against flagged players intentionally, but protects players like the OP from a well-timed jerk move by a flagged player.

 

Yes, caution, attentiveness, and/or disabling auto-target prevents OP's situation.

No, the game is not lacking because of some huge systemic flaw that allowed OP's situation to happen.

 

But, I feel the auto-target change should relieve enough of a concern for most players with a near-zero change to the way open world PVP currently occurs. So... can we focus on what we might agree on instead of perpetually going round and round?

Edited November 5, 2014 by azudelphi

[TUXs]

And I'm not the one that keeps trying to compare this to real life. I believe you two started that waaay back at the beginning of this thread.

I don't believe I did...but making real life comparisons doesn't mean we're confusing fantasy with reality...it's simply a comparison, meant to be something others can relate to to help understand a point better. That doesn't mean anyone is saying this is just like anything in real life dude.

[MozOTheUndercity]

The fact that it's possible to accidentally become flagged because you weren't wandering around a PvE server constantly thinking about PvP seems like an admission that it isn't working like it should.

 

I agree with the people saying it should be impossible for me to become involved in PvP unless I manually toggle my flag on; only people that would really inconvenience are the people who abuse the system at the moment?

[DanNV]

Yes, but the timing for this is pretty narrow.

 

Actually, how short it is depends on your settings for how far ahead the game caches your key presses. The Ability Queue Window defaults to 0.5 seconds but can be set from 0 to 1 second in 0.25 second increments. So, it is possible to have up to 1 second worth of key presses queued up and with auto target on, that can get you in trouble.

 

So, if I am attacking a target and pressing keys before the GCD (or internal cooldown for itemes off the GCD) completes, I have some number of key presses queued. At the point the cooldown expires the oldest key press still in queue is applied. So, assuming I am at the default setting, I have key presses queued for 0.5 seconds. So, assuming the target dies after I pressed a key but before the game applies the key press, auto targeting will apply that attack to the next target the game's algorithm picks. This is most likely what happened to the OP and what happens to every ranged player who inadvertently attack the next mob when the opponent they were fighting dies.

 

So, in spite of what some people in this thread have said, this is a relatively common issue (attacking some other target when the one you are attacking dies.) The problem here is that it is easily exploited by griefers who behave like the one mentioned in the OP.

 

A few different solutions have been suggested that would eliminate or make it harder for griefers but some people will argue against all of them. I'll leave it to you to determine what their motives might be.

[azudelphi]

The fact that it's possible to accidentally become flagged because you weren't wandering around a PvE server constantly thinking about PvP seems like an admission that it isn't working like it should.

 

I agree with the people saying it should be impossible for me to become involved in PvP unless I manually toggle my flag on; only people that would really inconvenience are the people who abuse the system at the moment?

 

PVE server just means that flagging is not automatic. It doesn't grant immunity from flagging in any way.

 

It alters owPVP even on PVE servers. Yes, it does happen rarely as it may be.

 

Please see my previous post to see if that appeases your view on a system change.

Edited November 5, 2014 by azudelphi

[Jadescythe]

The fact that it's possible to accidentally become flagged because you weren't wandering around a PvE server constantly thinking about PvP seems like an admission that it isn't working like it should.

 

I agree with the people saying it should be impossible for me to become involved in PvP unless I manually toggle my flag on; only people that would really inconvenience are the people who abuse the system at the moment?

 

It prevents you from quickly flagging. So maybe you don't typically PvP, but you come across someone on your faction being attacked and choose to help them. Instead of simply being able to heal them or attack/CC the enemy, you have to turn your flag on and then begin. Which could mean your ally dies before you hop in.

 

Honestly, you should have your auto target turned off or the chances of accidentally aggroing nearby mobs while questing or in ops/FPs is too high. The fact that it helps prevent you from accidentally flagging in PvP is an added bonus.

[Foambreaker]

It prevents you from quickly flagging. So maybe you don't typically PvP, but you come across someone on your faction being attacked and choose to help them. Instead of simply being able to heal them or attack/CC the enemy, you have to turn your flag on and then begin. Which could mean your ally dies before you hop in.

 

Honestly, you should have your auto target turned off or the chances of accidentally aggroing nearby mobs while questing or in ops/FPs is too high. The fact that it helps prevent you from accidentally flagging in PvP is an added bonus.

 

^ this and all because OP shoots without looking at his target, or lack of target as it were in this case.

 

OP just needs to look before he shoots, a lesson he will have to learn before he can FP or Raid successfully.

[HammerOneOne]

I don't believe I did...but making real life comparisons doesn't mean we're confusing fantasy with reality...it's simply a comparison, meant to be something others can relate to to help understand a point better. That doesn't mean anyone is saying this is just like anything in real life dude.

 

I stand corrected. You did not. But in making a real life comparison the door is being opened to more real life comparison.

[HammerOneOne]

^ this and all because OP shoots without looking at his target, or lack of target as it were in this case.

 

OP just needs to look before he shoots, a lesson he will have to learn before he can FP or Raid successfully.

 

Again you keep leaving out the entire scenario. The OP didn't just not look and shoot. That's completely inaccurate. The OP has one shot left when someone times there shot hoping he has his auto target on.

 

And he should turn his auto target off but not because he needs to worry about being griefed.

Edited November 5, 2014 by HammerOneOne

[Cordarn]

^ this and all because OP shoots without looking at his target, or lack of target as it were in this case.

 

OP just needs to look before he shoots, a lesson he will have to learn before he can FP or Raid successfully.

 

Ive 2 manned most the flashpoints and 4 man heroics in this game. Im pretty sure I look before I shoot. Their was simply nothing I could do when the auto target was in effect, it searched for a target and found one right next to me and attacked. I can't control what the game does I can only correct the mistake by turning it off.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Cordarn

[Foambreaker]

Ive 2 manned most the flashpoints and 4 man heroics in this game. Im pretty sure I look before I shoot. Their was simply nothing I could do when the auto target was in effect, it searched for a target and found one right next to me and attacked. I can't control what the game does I can only correct the mistake by turning it off.

 

Sure there was, stop shooting.

 

Look the GCD is more than a second, there is no advantage to pressing buttons that fast, slow down.

[azudelphi]

Sure there was, stop shooting.

 

Look the GCD is more than a second, there is no advantage to pressing buttons that fast, slow down.

 

To be fair, based on the OP's scenario, it sounds as though the GCD had basically just cleared and the instant of pressing the ability was fractions of a second after the mob had died and the flagged player became target-able. I'm going to say that in this instance, predicting that in <.5 seconds the mob you are attacking is no longer going to be there and a flagged player will be there is a bit of an unrealistic expectation.

 

High APM is fairly common for PVE, so I see nothing wrong with preparing for the GCD to complete.

 

The issue here has been a lack of knowledge that the auto-target was able to be turned off; highly recommended in high traffic cross-faction areas. OP's "mistake" was having it on, not preparing for the GCD to clear.

Edited November 5, 2014 by azudelphi

[BuriDogshin]

Look the GCD is more than a second, there is no advantage to pressing buttons that fast, slow down.

Totally wrong. You'll never get decent DPS if you wait for each skill to finish before triggering the next one.

That's guaranteed by the typical quarter-second human reaction time and the inherent lag in an MMO.

 

Heck, when the lag is bad, a mob can be dead for multiple GCDs before your client displays it as dead.

I've seen lag so bad that an Orbital Strike didn't activate for several seconds after it should of, and then all the ticks came at once: boomboomboomboom mobs dead. You don't stop fighting because of lag if you want to survive.

 

You do not seem to know much about how to play this or any other MMO involving real-time-ish combat.

[leihn]

Actually, how short it is depends on your settings for how far ahead the game caches your key presses. The Ability Queue Window defaults to 0.5 seconds but can be set from 0 to 1 second in 0.25 second increments. So, it is possible to have up to 1 second worth of key presses queued up and with auto target on, that can get you in trouble.

 

So, if I am attacking a target and pressing keys before the GCD (or internal cooldown for itemes off the GCD) completes, I have some number of key presses queued. At the point the cooldown expires the oldest key press still in queue is applied. So, assuming I am at the default setting, I have key presses queued for 0.5 seconds. So, assuming the target dies after I pressed a key but before the game applies the key press, auto targeting will apply that attack to the next target the game's algorithm picks. This is most likely what happened to the OP and what happens to every ranged player who inadvertently attack the next mob when the opponent they were fighting dies.

 

So, in spite of what some people in this thread have said, this is a relatively common issue (attacking some other target when the one you are attacking dies.) The problem here is that it is easily exploited by griefers who behave like the one mentioned in the OP.

 

A few different solutions have been suggested that would eliminate or make it harder for griefers but some people will argue against all of them. I'll leave it to you to determine what their motives might be.

 

I would say a 0.5s window is fairly small, when you consider that the griefer has to kill the target between your press and 0.5s when the press is registered, and again, only applies if you're using instant activation abilities, as anything with an activation timer can be canceled or will fizzle if the target dies before it's finished.

 

While I'm not saying it's not possible, the timing is quite precise and the entire thing can be avoided by toggling the auto target anyways.