Damage Dropping In 3.0

[aeterno]

Watch it.

 

TBH you can barely call what TOR has power creep.

 

That implies trivialization of content before it's time. DF and DP have had their time, same as TfB before it.

 

You can't chalk everything up to ze big bad germans of MMOs: powercreep. As game matures and advances some content is supposed to become trivia, visited for nostalgia purposes and weekly comms prizes. But as it stands we're doing less progressing of anything in TOR and more shifting our weight standing around.

[Levram]

so because SOME classes with 186 gear BIS do a little more damage than intended they will nerf ALL classes no matter what level and gear? why not put a diminishing returns cap where it was needed and not break everyones ankles because 2 runners were too fast?

 

No one knows how the Developers will actually implement the DPS reduction. It could very well be done through an adjustment to the diminishing return curves of secondary statistics, thereby resulting in the best geared players experiencing the largest DPS reduction and players in lower gear tiers barely noticing it.

 

Your "two runners" analogy isn't quite applicable to the game. With a runner, there is no artificial limit to the performance they can extract from their natural genetic talent. With SWTOR, the mechanic of the "Global" institutes a 1.5 second ability limit to every character, and every character of the same Class is capable of moving at the exact same speed. As long as a player is genetically capable of pressing a button every 1.5 seconds, they have the potential to perform as well as a nightmare-level player of the same Class when equally geared.

 

Therefore, any balance decision is logically made based on the "ceiling" numbers demonstrated by nightmare progression players because any player who's output is below that ceiling has the opportunity to rise to the ceiling numbers with better gameplay (i.e. order of 1.5 second button clicking, character positioning) and gearing. Physical genetic talent makes essentially no difference.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Levram

[Halinalle]

TBH you can barely call what TOR has power creep.

 

That implies trivialization of content before it's time. DF and DP have had their time, same as TfB before it.

 

You can't chalk everything up to ze big bad germans of MMOs: powercreep. As game matures and advances some content is supposed to become trivia, visited for nostalgia purposes and weekly comms prizes. But as it stands we're doing less progressing of anything in TOR and more shifting our weight standing around.

 

Maybe this is the reason for DPS drop. They want to avoid what looks like potential power creep.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Halinalle

[Hikaru_Kuma]

Watch it.

 

New lvl tier makes 186 worthless anyway. Now they make a year of playing the game worthless. Most player still do TFB and SNV because they are easy and they give comms, credit, or they needed the loot at their level of gear.

[Halinalle]

New lvl tier makes 186 worthless anyway. Now they make a year of playing the game worthless. Most player still do TFB and SNV because they are easy and they give comms, credit, or they needed the loot at their level of gear.

 

First of all, I didn't know 186 has been in the game a year. That's like 12 months. That's impressive.

Second, I keep reading that 180 or 186 is going to be minimum for level 60 ops and most likely you have to do ops to get 192/198 gear in the first place.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Halinalle

[Hikaru_Kuma]

First of all, I didn't know 186 has been in the game a year. That's impressive.

Second, I keep reading that 180 or 186 is going to be minimum for level 60 ops and most likely you have to do ops to get 192/198 gear in the first place.

 

There, you answered your own question. People need 180-186 gears to do lvl 60 ops, that's why there will still be players that do DF and DP. What is this power creep that you are worrying about then ?

 

1 year of playing the xpac I mean, because after the next year, my dps will be just like now haha.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Hikaru_Kuma

[DawnAskham]

First of all, I didn't know 186 has been in the game a year. That's impressive.

Second, I keep reading that 180 or 186 is going to be minimum for level 60 ops and most likely you have to do ops to get 192/198 gear in the first place.

 

Wow - something we agree on - people complaining about gear being made irrelevant with a new level cap and new content is just dumb.

 

Such is life in a level / gear progression MMO where yesterday's new and shiny is now vendor junk.

Edited November 2, 2014 by DawnAskham

[tdmaha]

Lol... you're the worst troll in this thread, seriously.

 

 

 

 

You're talking such a ********...

 

 

Thanks...Reported

[Halinalle]

Wow - something we agree on - people complaining about gear being made irrelevant with a new level cap and new content is just dumb. Such is life in a level / gear progression MMO where yesterday's new and shiny is now vendor junk.

 

You can probably do level 60 content in level 55 gear but it's not going to be roflstomp/bignumberseverywhere-easy.

 

Even CZ dailies are yawn fest for my undergeared Shadow tank (level 50 set bonus, Veracity implants/earpiece, a lot of 156s mixed with some random 162s).

Edited November 2, 2014 by Halinalle

[DawnAskham]

You can probably do level 60 content in level 55 gear but it's not going to be roflstomp/bignumberseverywhere-easy.

 

Nor should it. New content should be challenging and require actually playing close to potential in order to overcome.

 

Though IMO, level 55 content should be easier with five additional levels, as well as better gear, and significantly easier with both.

 

What we are seeing though, is that one must progress five additional levels and collect some amount of gear just to achieve the same level of performance as today in yesterday's content.

 

That is what sounds stupid to me.

Edited November 2, 2014 by DawnAskham

[Halinalle]

What we are seeing though, is that one must progress five additional levels and collect some amount of gear just to achieve the same level of performance as today in yesterday's content.

 

You don't need BIS gear to roflstomp content. How would you explain that my undergeared Shadow + Nadia (mostly in 148/156) makes Makeb/CZ/Oricon look like sandbox?

Edited November 2, 2014 by Halinalle

[Max_Killjoy]

I have to say, all these threads about them changing Damage rates is hilarious. Core issue = most of you just hate change unless it gives you personally a compelling advantage in game play.

 

Funny how easy it is for some people to dismiss concerns they don't share by tossing out presumed understandings of other people's thinking and motivations.

 

 

What we are seeing though, is that one must progress five additional levels and collect some amount of gear just to achieve the same level of performance as today in yesterday's content.

 

If the scenario you describe turns out to be what actually happens, it will be interesting to see how some of the "this is no big deal" people react.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Max_Killjoy

[Thoop]

Funny how easy it is for some people to dismiss concerns they don't share by tossing out presumed understandings of other people's thinking and motivations.

 

 

 

If the scenario you describe turns out to be what actually happens, it will be interesting to see how some of the "this is no big deal" people react.

 

wow,

 

the irony of this comment from the doom and gloom head cheerleader

 

also "this is no big deal" damage get balance passes all the time, welcome to online gaming

[Zoom_VI]

If the scenario you describe turns out to be what actually happens, it will be interesting to see how some of the "this is no big deal" people react.

 

Except that assumes that's how it happens. We don't know, therefore people should be QQ'ing about something that could happen in the future.

 

Besides it doesn't matter if the entire forums rose up in a great unanimous outcry against it, it will still go lives. Part of being a game developer is the ability to say "as I dev I am in a firm possession of the facts and am confident that the direction I am taking this game is the right one for the overall health, to hell with what the forum warriors say."

[Max_Killjoy]

wow,

 

the irony of this comment from the doom and gloom head cheerleader

 

also "this is no big deal" damage get balance passes all the time, welcome to online gaming

 

You seem to have me mistaken with someone else. Oh well.

 

IF this is as big an adjustment as some are speculating (not without reason) it will be, then it's not just the typical damage adjustment.

 

Typical damage adjustments don't make the same content noticeably more grindy across the board for every class and spec.

 

 

 

Except that assumes that's how it happens. We don't know, therefore people should be QQ'ing about something that could happen in the future.

 

Please note the IF in my statement.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Max_Killjoy

[Thoop]

You seem to have me mistaken with someone else. Oh well.

 

your they guy that dosn't want damage nerfed because it might take you some thinking to run cz dailies because content is hard enough as is

 

 

or was that someone else?

[Max_Killjoy]

your they guy that dosn't want damage nerfed because it might take you some thinking to run cz dailies because content is hard enough as is

 

 

or was that someone else?

 

Sorry, I'm not that guy. That guy is a strawman of your own creation.

[Thoop]

Sorry, I'm not that guy. That guy is a strawman of your own creation.

 

orly

 

because some guy with your same avatar sure sounds like that guy

 

I'm still curious and a touch concerned about what effect this will have on those of us who are content to do the dailies on Oricon, etc, and a few heroics a day... it's not like we're doing those for the challenge, just the credits.

 

(inB4 "if you're not being challenged, you should quit, scrub" comment is made by a random poster...)

 

the content in question is said to go quickly WITH thought and effort, and that the concern is that 3.0 will make that same content into a numbing grind, which to any calm and thoughtful reading indicates a lot more than an extra GD.

 

:rolleyes:Personally, I think it's lame.

I'm on CZ and Oricon for the credits and whatnot, NOT the "challenge". The last thing I need is that same content magically getting more grindy "because challenge".

 

If crying is so bad, why are you crying about the crying?

 

True, the numbers only matter as they relate to all the other numbers, and affect the resulting gameplay.

 

What matters is whether the same character will find the same content easier, harder, or the same after 3.0 hits.

 

My concern is less with "progress" and more with the possibility that current content might become significantly more difficult, which is still hard to tell from what they're saying. I'm not going to go off the deep end about it happening until we know more, but it does concern me.

[Max_Killjoy]

orly

 

because some guy with your same avatar sure sounds like that guy

 

Thank you for conveniently gathering up what I've actually said in one place, making it all the more obvious that the position you're trying to reply to is not the position that I've taken on this issue.

[Thoop]

Thank you for conveniently gathering up what I've actually said in one place, making it all the more obvious that the position you're trying to reply to is not the position that I've taken on this issue.

 

you are still the guy that dosnt want damage nerfed because it might make running dailies to hard for you

 

 

If a character is at the point of "some thought and effort will result in a clean run" on the dailies at Planet A now, the same character should not be knocked back to "every group of mobs takes absolute concentration and timing to avoid a nail-biter" after 3.0 hits.

 

"LoL, you gonna call you're mommy if Bioware takes away your deeps? LoL, crybabbies, LoL. OMG no not my deeps! Suing Bioware, LoL"

 

the exact same avatar who keeps posting QQ all over the forums about how his dps nerf will make dailies next to impossible to run

[ivanhedgehog]

Except that assumes that's how it happens. We don't know, therefore people should be QQ'ing about something that could happen in the future.

 

Besides it doesn't matter if the entire forums rose up in a great unanimous outcry against it, it will still go lives. Part of being a game developer is the ability to say "as I dev I am in a firm possession of the facts and am confident that the direction I am taking this game is the right one for the overall health, to hell with what the forum warriors say."

 

part of being a dev is the ability to say "as I had sole responsibility for keeping the game fun and I was confident that my way was the right way in spit of huge dissent I am ok with applying for unemployment because my game tanked", just like the wildstar devs. people are stating their opinion of these changes, not QQing like the BW fluffers would have you think. this is based off of the dev approved livestream info releases. of course we will see what happens on release day. there is a lot of data the devs have declined to release, like the com exchange rates. we will see

[Max_Killjoy]

you are still the guy that dosnt want damage nerfed because it might make running dailies to hard for you

 

 

the exact same avatar who keeps posting QQ all over the forums about how his dps nerf will make dailies next to impossible to run

 

You'll have to point out where I said "Lowering DPS will make dailies too hard to run".

[zuile]

I just wish we could get bounty hunters to go after the dev team for these changes, too bad we're not in Star Wars I guess. You're not supposed to get weaker with expansions until the end you're supposed to get stronger, idk what got in the dev's heads but it's nothing good. The spiteful side of me is wishing that the expansion will be terribly received but it'll be so so.

[Quraswren]

SNIP...

 

You're not supposed to get weaker with expansions until the end you're supposed to get stronger, idk what got in the dev's heads but it's nothing good. The spiteful side of me is wishing that the expansion will be terribly received but it'll be so so.

 

I'm with you on tha tline of thinking.

 

Never have I leveled up just to be whee I was 5 levels ago. It goes against the entire point of leveling up.

 

Why do you level up? Because you are suppose to get strong by doing so.

 

However, BW's model is entirely different. You level up to actually be no better than when you started out.

 

IF it was all about story and changing DPS, they could just not add in the level up because lets be honest, at this point BW made leveling up pointless. Just add in the story planets and be done with it. You were not going to be stronger anyway so why add the artificial levels.

 

BW wants to keep DF/DP into play without actually having to do much so its' easier to just keep gamers at their current power levels.

It's a bit off-putting.

[Zoom_VI]

Never have I leveled up just to be whee I was 5 levels ago. It goes against the entire point of leveling up.

Really because 3.0 55s will do less damage than 3.0 60s. You won't be losing damage going from 55 to 60 nor will you be losing damage going from 1 to 55.

 

How much damage you do now is totally irrelevant, 3.0 is no different than any other balancing pass.