Damage Dropping In 3.0

[Ryuku-sama]

Which presumes that there's actually a significant problem, and not just an excuse.

 

WoW...

[Halinalle]

Hybrids bad! Damage too much! Must fix! ARGULBARGLE!

 

And now is perfect time to fix it.

[Max_Killjoy]

And now is perfect time to fix it.

 

You do realize that I was expressing nothing short of outright contempt for the belief that hybrids are bad, let alone the attempt to connect to the faux-concern over "too much" damage being done, yes?

[LordArtemis]

Do players feel that damage was ballooning out of control, and content needed to remain relevant?

 

Again, I am not against the changes. I think the majority of them will likely turn out to be positive ones. But I do hear quite a few forum members parroting official responses.

 

It seems some folks are questioning whether or not reducing DPS, Heals, Mitigation is really a required move and also questioning the wisdom of keeping certain elements of end game relevant in a level expansion through a "nerf", so to speak.

 

I think this fails to take into account many of the adjustments made that likely mitigate most of these balance changes. Sure, DPS is taking a small hit, but I think overall healing and mitigation could actually be looking at a small buff compared to live...certainly it looks like tanks are in a better spot overall.

 

Yes, we have heard them say they believe that DPS was beyond internal targets. What are those internal targets? Why do they have a target? To what purpose? And why in the world would they exceed their targets when THEY are the ones that set the multipliers? Were they unaware of how the multipliers work, or incapable of projecting total damage output based on those multipliers?

 

Also, why keep very high end end game content (ops) relative considering the likelihood that a very small group of the playerbase even participates? Seems like a rather dramatic change for rather odd reasons to me.

 

I have always felt that EVERYTHING in the game was too inflated.....that includes mobs. The number of levels, total health and power, multipliers all to high of a curve that would make a squish required at one point.

 

But the universal balance reduction is only for 1-50. They are reducing performance for players from 51-60 and keeping mobs at the current health and power levels, if one assumes the statements presented so far point to that. So they ARE nerfing players, apparently to keep up difficulty levels in CURRENT end game content.

 

Personally that seems like a VERY odd move to me. Obviously one that some folks are going have issue with.

 

It essentially looks like they are providing an extra 5 levels with out the normal impact an increase in 5 levels provides.

 

Then why even have an increase of 5 levels?

Edited November 25, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Max_Killjoy]

Yes, we have heard them say they believe that DPS was beyond internal targets. What are those internal targets? Why do they have a target? To what purpose? And why in the world would they exceed their targets when THEY are the ones that set the multipliers?

 

Which is why I'm highly skeptical, and why I said that the correct time to not let damage get "out of hand" was before it got out of hand.

 

For EAware to claim that damage got "out of hand" is for them to act as if they had no control over it, as if it somehow just "happened" on its own, which is patently ludicrous.

[Arkerus]

Do players feel that damage was ballooning out of control, and content needed to remain relevant?

 

Again, I am not against the changes. I think the majority of them will likely turn out to be positive ones. But I do hear quite a few forum members parroting official responses.

 

It seems some folks are questioning whether or not reducing DPS, Heals, Mitigation is really a required move and also questioning the wisdom of keeping certain elements of end game relevant in a level expansion through a "nerf", so to speak.

 

Yes, we have heard them say they believe that DPS was beyond internal targets. What are those internal targets? Why do they have a target? To what purpose? And why in the world would they exceed their targets when THEY are the ones that set the multipliers? Were they unaware of how the multipliers work, or incapable of projecting total damage output based on those multipliers?

 

Also, why keep very high end end game content (ops) relative considering the likelihood that a very small group of the playerbase even participates? Seems like a rather dramatic change for rather odd reasons to me.

 

I have always felt that EVERYTHING in the game was too inflated.....that includes mobs. The number of levels, total health and power, multipliers all to high of a curve that would make a squish required at one point.

 

But the universal balance reduction is only for 1-50. They are reducing performance for players from 51-60 and keeping mobs at the current health and power levels, if one assumes the statements presented so far point to that. So they ARE nerfing players, apparently to keep up difficulty levels in CURRENT end game content.

 

Personally that seems like a VERY odd move to me. Obviously one that some folks are going have issue with.

 

It essentially looks like they are providing an extra 5 levels with out the normal impact an increase in 5 levels provides.

 

Then why even have an increase of 5 levels?

 

Just a friendly reminder that these games are not static. The development process is extremely fluid. You are asking questions that can only be answered by internal development memos. You will never, ever be given those answers nor should you be given those answers.

 

Back to my point. MMO development is extremely fluid and the "plan", so to speak, will often change after the game has been active for 1, 2, or 10 years. It would be extremely foolish to expect anything else. While these games often have a skeleton built that the developers plan on using, they can change or modify their direction at any time.

 

Unless you are living in a cave, it's quite obvious the developers took a step back before level 60 and said "we need to stop power creep now instead of 5 years from now." You want I disagree with doing it now? Fine. Disagree with it. It won't make a lick of difference. The development staff and product managers have decided that their new power curve will stay extremely similar as it is now because they see the postives outweight the negatives. They positives have been listed time and time again in this thread so there is no use is doing it again. We can all read.

 

I have seen both sides of this argument and quite frankly the postives far outweigh the negatives because power is relative anyway. Your character will still grow from 55 to 60. It's all relative and it doesn't make one iota of difference. Doing 5 damage to a mob with 100 HP is exactly the same as doing 50 damage to a mob with 1000 HP. That is a simplistic example but the point is nothing is actually changing relatively speaking (literally).

 

Let me make this clear. It doesn't matter if people don't like it because relative power makes the argument to not do the squish completely null and void.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Arkerus

[Levram]

For EAware to claim that damage got "out of hand" is for them to act as if they had no control over it, as if it somehow just "happened" on its own, which is patently ludicrous.

 

Let's examine the Developer's method of balancing classes since the release of Dread Fortress and Dread Palace in October 2013. "Buffed" and "nerfed" are used in the broadest sense to mean any increase or decrease in DPS caused by a change to an offensive ability.

 

Patch 2.4.2 - Nerfed Mercenaries (vent heat change).

Patch 2.5 - Buffed Marauders (including implementing group-wide Bloodthirst), Inquisitors, Assassins, Agents.

Patch 2.6 - Buffed Mercenaries, Juggernauts, Sorcerers, Operatives, Snipers. Nerfed Agents (orbital strike).

Patch 2.7 - Buffed Sorcerers, Mercenaries. Nerfed Juggernauts and Marauders in PvP (Smash requires primary target).

Patch 2.8 - Buffed Marauders, Sorcerers, Assassins. Powertechs.

Patch 2.10 - Buffed Marauders, Assassins. Buffed/Nerfed Snipers (mixed changes including roll-bang in-place removal).

 

Not surprisingly, after all of the above changes, DPS is outperforming the DPS target levels that the current operations were balanced around back in 2013.

 

Why would the Developers follow the above "more buffs than nerfs" trend? As was posted by Rob Hinkle in the 2.8 PTS forums (emphasis mine),

This is an interesting topic, and one that the team I actually have spent a little time discussing this past week with the 2.8 stuff. I feel like we probably have fallen prey to mostly buffs because it makes people happy, and we’ve pushed our target DPS values for classes higher than the underlying combat theory on what the system expects. I think you will start to see some of that realization a bit as we try to be a little more careful about pure dps buffs (and some of the things we’ve done in round 1 of 2.8 patch are going to get ratcheted back a touch), and then we will need to decide what to do about the already live classes that are performing too well. It’s easy to say just start swinging the nerf bat, but that really isn’t a great solution. In a perfect world we will be able to make a bunch of small steps in a bunch of places (survivability, defense, threat, DPS, HPS) and get us to a better equilibrium, it is just going to take us awhile to get there.

 

Food for thought, for sure. I wish I had a good magic bullet.

 

As many posters have displayed in this thread, people get pissed off when the advanced Class and spec they play receives a nerf in the name of better balance. Just the thought of receiving a damage reduction in 3.0 has some people saying they will stop playing the game.

 

So yes, damage got out of hand as the Developers tried to balance using mainly buffs to keep players happy. There's no conspiracy theory. The Developers simply used too many "happy" buffs rather than "sad" nerfs over the past 13 months when trying to balance classes for an emotional playerbase.

 

With 3.0 they are finally saying "Suck it up. You were all on a DPS vacation for the past year. Your vacation is now over and you will be playing content as it is intended to be balanced."

Edited November 23, 2014 by Levram

[Levram]

It seems some folks are questioning whether or not reducing DPS, Heals, Mitigation is really a required move...

 

It has never been said by the Developers that healing or tank mitigation is being reduced with the launch of 3.0. That is a creation of your imagination.

Yes, we have heard them say they believe that DPS was beyond internal targets. What are those internal targets? Why do they have a target? To what purpose? And why in the world would they exceed their targets when THEY are the ones that set the multipliers? Were they unaware of how the multipliers work, or incapable of projecting total damage output based on those multipliers?

 

1. Guidance on 3.0's DPS targets.
   
2. Internal targets exist so that PvE flashpoint and operation content can be balanced around appropriate enrage timers, DPS checks, healing checks and tank mitigation so that content is appropriately challenging for each difficulty level according to the Developers' design philosophy.
   
3. Refer to my response on how DPS creep occurred in SWTOR over the past 13 months.

They are reducing performance for players from 51-60

 

This is incorrect. Player performance from levels 56-60 remains unaffected by the DPS reduction. Players will be fighting mobs and bosses that are correctly balanced as the Developers intended. If the Developers didn't reduce our damage, they simply would have added more hit points to everything included in 3.0 to provide the exact same experience. There is nothing that is suddenly "harder" about levels 56-60 because of the upcoming damage reduction.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Levram

[Halinalle]

Nerfed Agents (orbital strike

 

Really?

 

I still keep using Flyby even though people keep saying it's crap. But I'm casual player and I play most of specs wrong anyway.

 

It has never been said by the Developers that healing or tank mitigation is being reduced with the launch of 3.0. That is a creation of your imagination.

 

Exactly. What they are actually doing is reducing off-healing done by dps.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Halinalle

[LordArtemis]

It has never been said by the Developers that healing or tank mitigation is being reduced with the launch of 3.0. That is a creation of your imagination.

 

It is a general statement based on information that has been released. It is no more my imagination than your statement demonstrates a grasp of reality or keen insight.

 

Revivification and Crushing Blow stand in evidence, as only a few examples. This is common knowledge mentioned by folks in this thread. Some of the changes mentioned by folks in this thread have been mitigated by other additions, adjustments or potential player choices, but not all.

 

Other than this obviously inane comment, the rest of your points are sensible and informed IMO.

Edited November 23, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Levram]

It is a general statement based on information that has been released. It is no more my imagination than your statement demonstrates a grasp of reality.

 

Revivification and Crushing Blow stand in evidence, as only a few examples. This is common knowledge mentioned by folks in this thread.

 

Please point me to exactly where the Developers have stated, or shown, that healers were exceeding what they were expected to be able to achieve from a HPS perspective and that they should expect an across the board reduction in their healing output when 3.0 is released. I would be fascinated to see your source.

 

Also, a second Developer statement on tanks mitigating too much damage, and that they should expect to die more easily the morning that 3.0 launches, please.

 

An adjustment to a healer or tank ability or two is not even similar to the Developers' sweeping generalisation that all DPS output across all Classes is being reduced with 3.0. Have you accounted for the increased healing output or tank mitigation that comes from other expected ability changes? What about the Sorcerer's new bounce-heal?

Edited November 23, 2014 by Levram

[LordArtemis]

Please point me to exactly where the Developers have stated, or shown, that healers were exceeding what they were expected to be able to achieve from a HPS perspective and that they should expect an across the board reduction in their healing output when 3.0 is released. I would be fascinated to see your source.

 

Also, a second Developer statement on tanks mitigating too much damage, and that they should expect to die more easily the morning that 3.0 launches, please.

 

An adjustment to a healer or tank ability or two is not even similar to the Developers' sweeping generalisation that all DPS output across all Classes is being reduced with 3.0. Have you accounted for the increased healing output or tank mitigation that comes from other expected ability changes? What about the Sorcerer's new bounce-heal?

 

I made a simple statement that you chose to claim was imagination. The sources for that information is in the very blogs that speaks to every change that has been so far for 3.0. It is not exactly a state secret...I believe you are more than capable of finding the information for yourself.

 

If you wish to question the particulars, the mitigations, you can do so. The statement was matter of fact, you chose to give it deeper meaning to support your need to be divisive for the sake of divisiveness it seems.

 

Hence your comment was pure hyperbole when the adjustments made are common knowledge. You add more hyperbole due to an apparent lack of understanding your error.

 

It seems some folks are questioning whether or not reducing DPS, Heals, Mitigation is really a required move...

 

It is a general statement based on information that has been released. It is no more my imagination than your statement demonstrates a grasp of reality.

 

Revivification and Crushing Blow stand in evidence, as only a few examples. This is common knowledge mentioned by folks in this thread.

 

Both of my statements stand as they are. I stand by them both. You are free to reject them as you wish, as I reject your baseless accusation.

 

And that is where it stands.

Edited November 23, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Levram]

I made a simple statement that you chose to claim was imagination. The sources for that information is in the very blogs that speaks to every change that has been so far for 3.0. It is not exactly a state secret...I believe you are more than capable of finding the information for yourself.

 

“It seems some folks are questioning whether or not reducing DPS, Heals, Mitigation is really a required move...”

 

Both of my statements stand as they are. I stand by them both. You are free to reject them as you wish, as I reject your baseless accusation.

 

That’s cool. I’ll go do your work for you.

 

Mercenary Blog

Mercenaries that want to heal should feel at home in the Bodyguard discipline. It is rather similar to the old Bodyguard skill tree, but it has a few changes and improvements that should make healing feel a bit more streamlined. With the new discipline system, only Bodyguard Mercenaries have access to Rapid Scan, Kolto Missile, and Kolto Shell. Kolto Missile now heals up to 8 targets in its radius, and Bodyguards have gained a new healing ability:

 

Progressive Scan: Heals a friendly target over the channel duration, and heals one new friendly target within 20 meters with each tick, healing up to four total targets with the final tick. 28 heat is generated over the duration of the channel.

 

Sorcerer Blog

While most of the skills in the Corruption discipline will be familiar to Sorcerer healers, there are also a couple new passives. One new passive causes Resurgence to heal its target for an additional amount of health 1.5 seconds after the Sorcerer refreshes its duration on the target. The other new passive causes Crushing Darkness, Lightning Strike, Dark Infusion, and Revivification to make your next Dark Heal activate instantly and consume no Force (this effect cannot occur more than once every 10 seconds). Corruption Sorcerers also gain the following new active ability:

 

Roaming Mend: Places a mending Force on a friendly target that heals them the next time they take damage. After healing the target, Roaming Mend travels to another friendly target within 20 meters. Roaming Mend lasts up to 30 seconds on each target and travels up to 3 times, healing up to 4 targets. Roaming Mend can only be placed on one target at a time.

 

Powertech Blog

The Shield Tech discipline will be rather familiar to Powertech tanks. No drastic changes have been made to Powertech tanking, but there is a new ability:

 

Firestorm: Incinerates everything in a 10-meter cone, generating 28 heat and dealing elemental damage to up to 8 enemy targets over the duration. Affected targets are impaired for 45 seconds, reducing the Force and tech damage they deal by 5%. Shares a cooldown with Flame Thrower.

 

Juggernaut Blog

The Immortal discipline will be pretty familiar to most Juggernaut tanks, but the armor reduction effect applied by Sundering Assault is now just for the damage dealing disciplines. And Immortal get the following new ability (to effectively replace their Sundering Assault):

 

Aegis Assault: Increases damage reduction by 3% for 20 seconds, generates 6 rage, and deals weapon damage to the target with a series of quick melee attacks. Shares a cooldown with Sundering Assault.

 

With this new ability, Crushing Blow has been modified to now reduce the Force and tech damage dealt by targets it damages, rather than increase the Juggernauts damage reduction. Immortal Juggernauts also get a new passive that causes Aegis Assault to increase shield absorption by 3% for 20 seconds as well.

 

So, as we can see through the underlined passages above, the Developer blogs have provided no indication that healers or tanks will be suffering from any type of performance reduction in 3.0. Everything that is underlined actually provides a boost to healing or mitigation. The change to Crushing Blow replaced a flat damage reduction for the tank with the effect of being able to reduce the outgoing Force and tech damage of its target, a group-wide benefit.

 

For good measure, here’s the Developers discussing the overall philosophy of their tanking changes during the Trooper/Bounty Hunter LiveStream (12:15-13:02), which includes the following quote.

[Powertech tanks] didn’t have many changes that—in fact, most of the tanks, for that matter, are pretty similar to how they were on 2.0. They just got, like, one or two new passives, typically, and a new active.

 

I've supported my position that your statement suggesting that healing and mitigation reductions are coming in 3.0 is false by using only information directly from the Developers. Perhaps you can deign to do the same if you want to claim that I am incorrect.

 

In fact, I would say that based on the Developers' information above, players should not be surprised if healer performance increases with the launch of 3.0. The very opposite of your statement.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Levram

[Lotharofxev]

This thread isn't about heals, mitigation or anything dealing with anything other than DPS.

 

This is incorrect. Player performance from levels 56-60 remains unaffected by the DPS reduction. Players will be fighting mobs and bosses that are correctly balanced as the Developers intended. If the Developers didn't reduce our damage, they simply would have added more hit points to everything included in 3.0 to provide the exact same experience. There is nothing that is suddenly "harder" about levels 56-60 because of the upcoming damage reduction

 

Absolutely false. When they say that a current player in 186s will be doing the same as a 60 in 198s, you better believe this will affect leveling.

 

By the by, you make plenty of accusations towards Artemis, care to tell me what meetings you sat in on where the Devs talked about their "intentions"?

 

Insofar as your 4th sentence - well duh. Have you PLAYED a MMORPG other than SWTOR? I would expect a challenge from a new 56 MOB that I don't see from a 55. What I DON'T expect is to have my damage nerfed AND new 56 MOBs.

 

Unless you (for some odd reason) think a 55 on Oricon will be the EXACT same as a 56 on {Insert New Planet}.

 

THAT would be odd.

[Pagy]

you failed to see his point (not surprising)

 

the 55-60 levelling experience will be what the devs intend it to be with regards to TKK

if they dont reduce dps, they increase hp, mitigation etc. the devs are get what they want one way or another, and screaming that the sky is falling because your arbitrary dps is being reduced is utterly ridiculous.

 

the dmg you do pre-3.0 doesnt matter. there is only the 3.0 abilities moving forward.

[ivanhedgehog]

Really?

 

I still keep using Flyby even though people keep saying it's crap. But I'm casual player and I play most of specs wrong anyway.

 

 

 

Exactly. What they are actually doing is reducing off-healing done by dps.

 

most people consider a 66% reduction in damage to be a nerf..but they might be wrong....

[LordArtemis]

That’s cool. I’ll go do your work for you.

 

Mercenary Blog

 

 

Sorcerer Blog

 

 

Powertech Blog

 

 

Juggernaut Blog

 

 

So, as we can see through the underlined passages above, the Developer blogs have provided no indication that healers or tanks will be suffering from any type of performance reduction in 3.0. Everything that is underlined actually provides a boost to healing or mitigation. The change to Crushing Blow replaced a flat damage reduction for the tank with the effect of being able to reduce the outgoing Force and tech damage of its target, a group-wide benefit.

 

For good measure, here’s the Developers discussing the overall philosophy of their tanking changes during the Trooper/Bounty Hunter LiveStream (12:15-13:02), which includes the following quote.

 

 

I've supported my position that your statement suggesting that healing and mitigation reductions are coming in 3.0 is false by using only information directly from the Developers. Perhaps you can deign to do the same if you want to claim that I am incorrect.

 

In fact, I would say that based on the Developers' information above, players should not be surprised if healer performance increases with the launch of 3.0. The very opposite of your statement.

 

Again, you argue against the idea of the nerfs made with mitigation. So instead of indicating "the nerfs to healing or mitigation abilities are offset by other abilities or adjustments, you claim my statement is a figment of my imagination.

 

You obviously decided to have an argument in your head, then give the final comment when it is a discussion we never had.

 

My original statements stand and are ABSOLUTELY ACCURATE. Therefore your statement is pure hyperbole, and no amount of slant is going to change that.

 

You argue they are mitigated...and that is an absolutely valid argument. But you made a mistake.

 

Own it.

 

Revivication

 

Duffy Livestream notes

Link to Livestream

 

Revifification/Salvation heals too little

We will probably make a change so where the first 8 people that goes into it get a HoT and it disappears. It has to heal for less because it is too effective.

The healers are healing too effective and it trivialize the content in both PvP and PvE.

Some healing need to come down a bit maybe, not sure if Revification/Salvation will get reduced even further.

 

Crushing Blow

 

Duffy developer blog post

Link to Developer blog

With this new ability, Crushing Blow has been modified to now reduce the Force and tech damage dealt by targets it damages, rather than increase the Juggernauts damage reduction

 

Note, this is just two items mentioned in this thread...there are obviously more.

 

These are ACTUAL statements taken directly from the developer blogs and livestreams themselves, statements you conveniently decided to ignore to support your inane comment.

 

You were wrong, period. I didn't make it up. The nerfs are there, and some folks seem to be asking if these kind of changes were necessary, PERIOD.

 

Again, you can argue they are mitigated, you can argue they were necessary, you could even perhaps argue they are taken out of context...but you can NOT argue they are fabrications.

 

It seems some folks are questioning whether or not reducing DPS, Heals, Mitigation is really a required move...

 

It is a general statement based on information that has been released. It is no more my imagination than your statement demonstrates a grasp of reality.

 

Revivification and Crushing Blow stand in evidence, as only a few examples. This is common knowledge mentioned by folks in this thread.

 

These statements are matter of fact statements of the situation in this thread. It is not a stand on the merit of those statements. Therefore, both statements are completely accurate and are not fabricated in any sense of the word. It is time to own your mistake and stop iceskating uphill Levram.

 

Now perhaps you can get back to your contentions as to why it is silly to feel the way I indicated. You make good arguments to that effect. You should STICK TO THOSE ARGUMENTS.

Edited November 24, 2014 by LordArtemis

[KarathAnno]

The DR buff Crushing Blow gave just moved to Aegis Assault and a new debuff was added to Crushing Blow.

 

So while I don't know about the other tanks it appears the Immortal Juggernaut is getting a small buff to its mitigation before gear is taken into account (I have no idea what the 3.0 gear curves are like).

 

The 3.0 Jugg should have

Armor: +75%

Damage Reduction: +9%

Internal & Elemental Damage Reduction: +5%

Shield: +19%

Defense: +5%

Absorption: +3%

Sonic Barrier

 

Target Melee & Ranged Accuracy: -5%

Target Force & Tech Damage: -5%

 

The live Jugg tank has

Armor: +75%

Damage Reduction: +9%

Internal & Elemental Damage Reduction: +5%

Shield: +19%

Defense: +5%

Sonic Barrier

 

Target Melee & Ranged Accuracy: -5%

 

The 3.0 numbers are from the live steam./Dulfy's Discipline Calculator and of course subject to change.

[LordArtemis]

The DR buff Crushing Blow gave just moved to Aegis Assault and a new debuff was added to Crushing Blow.

 

So while I don't know about the other tanks it appears the Immortal Juggernaut is getting a small buff to its mitigation before gear is taken into account (I have no idea what the 3.0 gear curves are like).

 

The 3.0 Jugg should have

Armor: +75%

Damage Reduction: +9%

Internal & Elemental Damage Reduction: +5%

Shield: +19%

Defense: +5%

Absorption: +3%

Sonic Barrier

 

Target Melee & Ranged Accuracy: -5%

Target Force & Tech Damage: -5%

 

The live Jugg tank has

Armor: +75%

Damage Reduction: +9%

Internal & Elemental Damage Reduction: +5%

Shield: +19%

Defense: +5%

Sonic Barrier

 

Target Melee & Ranged Accuracy: -5%

 

The 3.0 numbers are from the live steam./Dulfy's Discipline Calculator and of course subject to change.

 

I think the argument can be made that any nerfs made have some sort of compensation added elsewhere, either in new abilities or adjustments to current ones.

 

Overall it is likely mitigation should improve.

 

I would also point out, as I have before, that the healing nerfs (or intention to do so) could just be for the PTS build...it may actually be a buff compared to live. That was mentioned more than once by a few folks, and I tend to think this is a logical possibility.

 

The only clear downward adjustment seems to be in overall dps, and that adjustment does not look like it is substantial so far.

 

Personally I am concerned with a few of the mechanics, but I think overall the changes are positive and, after some growing pains should be accepted by the majority of players.

[KTap]

Really?

 

I still keep using Flyby even though people keep saying it's crap. But I'm casual player and I play most of specs wrong anyway.

 

It's still decent on groups, but it was essentially removed from an optimized single target rotation.

[Pagy]

bumping, since now we are able to openly talk about the operative healing changes.

 

given the changes to operatives and sorcs that we can see in the new skill trees, its evident that healing too, has been reduced to fall in line with the dps adjustments imo.

[LordArtemis]

bumping, since now we are able to openly talk about the operative healing changes.

 

given the changes to operatives and sorcs that we can see in the new skill trees, its evident that healing too, has been reduced to fall in line with the dps adjustments imo.

 

Which was logical I think, though certainly not painless for some. It makes sense that reductions would occur across all three roles IMO.

[DARTHFERRUM]

I personally am not too optimistic about the nerfs to dps and heals in 3.0

 

I was looking forward to being able to finish NiM df/dp now that there was a new lv cap and new gear tiers, but dragging out these ops beyond the 15 months since their inception just seems lazy and short sighted on the part of the devs. They claim healing trivialized pve content that was meant to be challenging, but challenging is a relative term. challenging to whom and in what lv of gear. When 2.0 dropped S&V was challenging with our lv of gear at the time, even on sm. With subsequent updates and increased gear lvs content will inevitably become easier, and in fact trival. This seems like nothing more than an effort by the devs to milk the current content, in fact they have even admitted NiM df/dp might be harder at lv 60. The dev team did say they may have to make adjustments to these ops, but then they should just make them not look to keep 15 month old content relavent.

 

On my server there are only two 8 man groups that have cleared NiM df/dp, only one of which is still around, the other transfered to a pve server. It seems that the content is not too trival to me. I keep seeing claims that NiM df/dp can be solo healed, other than forum posts I have never heard of this in game or seen any videos. I am currently 4/5 on Nim df and only didn't complete because of a lack of skilled players on my pvp server. It seems like I am being forced to choose between being a top level raider and being on a server where open world pvp is possible.

 

I am going to wait and see how this all plays out as I pre-ordered the xpac a week after it was available. But I can definatively say that as a sub since early access of launch, that if this turns out to be what my initial impressions tell me I will not be playing past this 6 month sub. I'm actually sorry I made the 97 dollar investment in this xpac/sub purchase.

[KTap]

bumping, since now we are able to openly talk about the operative healing changes.

 

given the changes to operatives and sorcs that we can see in the new skill trees, its evident that healing too, has been reduced to fall in line with the dps adjustments imo.

 

Looks that way, we'll see very soon

[Mitsugoya]

I've read a lot things in this thread and other, but i think a lot of you are missing a point.

 

198 is the first top tier as 172 were the first top tier. Yes you'll get the same dps until the next tier of content and then you'll get a dps increase.

 

Back in the the pre 2.0 patch, the best dps were parsing near 2k. in August 2013 (RotHC released in april 2013) best dps (excluding eng sniper) were in the 3k range, now we are in the 4k5 range, yeah we took 1500 dps since the 168 stuff (was the top tier until the release of TFB & S&V nim). I think it's too much.

 

Just look what WoW did and you'll understand why swtor dev drop our damage.