Damage Dropping In 3.0

[Quraswren]

Really because 3.0 55s will do less damage than 3.0 60s. You won't be losing damage going from 55 to 60 nor will you be losing damage going from 1 to 55.

 

How much damage you do now is totally irrelevant, 3.0 is no different than any other balancing pass.

 

 

Right and wrong I think you are.....

 

A level 55 in 186 gear will do less than what they did the day before.

We know a level 60 will be no stronger than they were at level 55 even though they have 192/198 gear.

 

You are leveling for no reason other than to see some points add up and see a pretty flash every so often.

 

It kinda goes against why "leveling up" was created in the first place.

 

You leveled up 5 times to get to 60 suddenly you are equal to 55 in damn near every aspect that matters.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Quraswren

[Zoom_VI]

Right and wrong I think you are.....

 

A level 55 in 186 gear will do less than what they did the day before.

We know a level 60 will be no stronger than they were at level 55 even though they have 192/198 gear.

 

You are leveling for no reason other than to see some points add up and see a pretty flash every so often.

 

It kinda goes against why "leveling up" was created in the first place.

 

You leveled up 5 times to get to 60 suddenly you are equal to 55 in damn near every aspect that matters.

 

It doesn't matter what you did the day before. This is called a "transition," after 3.0 55s will do less damage than 60s, and people will forget they ever got mad about it.

 

Under your logic they should never make any balance changes ever.

[pquadro]

It doesn't matter what you did the day before. This is called a "transition," after 3.0 55s will do less damage than 60s, and people will forget they ever got mad about it.

 

Under your logic they should never make any balance changes ever.

 

 

What he says

[Quraswren]

It doesn't matter what you did the day before. This is called a "transition," after 3.0 55s will do less damage than 60s, and people will forget they ever got mad about it.

 

Under your logic they should never make any balance changes ever.

 

No under my logic, When I level 5 levels I expect to be a bit more powerful than I was the previous 5 levels. I expect level 60 characters to roll through level 55 content, not be on equal ground as if they were 55.

 

The only balance here is killing hybrids, not from damage output. Thats more of a place card of things BW had on a wall and choose from so it's easier to swallow the BS they just added.

 

That being, as of 3.0, level 60 will be pretty much equal to level 55. That way they can keep some one year old, worn out ops around. (eke DF/DP)

 

Which begs the question, why level at all? Story? Story planets could be added without leveling. Gain 5 levels to get to 60 so you act as a 55?

 

Its a *** moment in gaming. sure it kills hybirds and helps them balance from that but the "DPS that got out of hand..... Really?. If it was DPS where the hell is all that metrics we hear about and how accurate it is?

 

Not reliable it seems after all.

[BarrinMarshall]

No under my logic, When I level 5 levels I expect to be a bit more powerful than I was the previous 5 levels. I expect level 60 characters to roll through level 55 content, not be on equal ground as if they were 55.

 

The only balance here is killing hybrids, not from damage output. Thats more of a place card of things BW had on a wall and choose from so it's easier to swallow the BS they just added.

 

That being, as of 3.0, level 60 will be pretty much equal to level 55. That way they can keep some one year old, worn out ops around. (eke DF/DP)

 

Which begs the question, why level at all? Story? Story planets could be added without leveling. Gain 5 levels to get to 60 so you act as a 55?

 

Its a *** moment in gaming. sure it kills hybirds and helps them balance from that but the "DPS that got out of hand..... Really?. If it was DPS where the hell is all that metrics we hear about and how accurate it is?

 

Not reliable it seems after all.

 

Can anyone at all refute this mans claims?

[TACeMossie]

Did they buff Balance/Madness a year ago? Did they buff Assault/Pyro a year ago?

 

http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/2.4.0/dread-war

 

October last year. Has Pyro buffs

 

Kolto Overload now triggers at 35% health and may heal up to 35% of max health (both up from 30%).

Rail Shot now deals slightly more damage.

 

Increased Thermal Detonator explosion damage, but reduced the damage it deals over time.

 

Reduced the cost of Incendiary Missile to 16 heat (down from 22), and slightly reduced the damage it deals.

In addition to its previous functionality, Automated Defenses now also increases damage reduction by 15/30% while Kolto Overload is active.

 

Bursting Flame has been redesigned: Rocket Punch has a 33/66/100% chance and Flame Burst has a 20/40/60% chance to trigger your Combustible Gas Cylinder if active.

 

Sweltering Heat has been redesigned: While Combustible Gas Cylinder is active, Flame Burst and Flame Sweep have a 50/100% chance to reduce the movement speed of affected targets by 40% for 6 seconds.

 

Degauss has been redesigned: Activating Chaff Flare increases your defense chance by 12.5/25% for 6 seconds.

 

http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/2.5/galactic-starfighter-early-access

Late November:

Slightly increased the damage dealt by Thrash.

 

In addition to previous effects, Devour now prevents the damage-over-time effects applied by Creeping Terror, Discharge, and Crushing Darkness from being cleansed.

 

So yes, they did buff Balance/Madness and Pyro/Assault a year ago

[Max_Killjoy]

How much damage you do now is totally irrelevant, 3.0 is no different than any other balancing pass.

 

Well, whether it's relevant or not is one of the major points of disagreement.

 

In absolute raw numbers, it's probably irrelevant.

 

However, after all the adjustments are made, if characters are doing less damage in relative terms to the same exact content, and the same exact content feels significantly harder or more grindy, then it most certainly is relevant, and players do have a legitimate reason to object to the change.

[Zoom_VI]

However, after all the adjustments are made, if characters are doing less damage in relative terms to the same exact content, and the same exact content feels significantly harder or more grindy, then it most certainly is relevant, and players do have a legitimate reason to object to the change.

 

I don't think you get the point. You seem to think the goal is to keep the status quo when it comes to content. The point *is* to make content harder, because right now the content is easier than its supposed to be, and rather than rebalance every single bit of group content in the entire game, they just rebalanced the classes.

[Max_Killjoy]

I don't think you get the point. You seem to think the goal is to keep the status quo when it comes to content. The point *is* to make content harder, because right now the content is easier than its supposed to be, and rather than rebalance every single bit of group content in the entire game, they just rebalanced the classes.

 

No, understand that's their motive.

 

Unfortunately, that horse already got out of the barn.

 

My real life job is largely about customer expectations, and one thing you simply don't do is "accidentally" deliver at a certain level, and then tell the customer "Oops, we know we've been providing these extra services for free, but that was entirely accidental, so now we're going to stop unless you want to pay more per order."

Edited November 3, 2014 by Max_Killjoy

[tdmaha]

No under my logic, When I level 5 levels I expect to be a bit more powerful than I was the previous 5 levels. I expect level 60 characters to roll through level 55 content, not be on equal ground as if they were 55.

 

The only balance here is killing hybrids, not from damage output. Thats more of a place card of things BW had on a wall and choose from so it's easier to swallow the BS they just added.

 

That being, as of 3.0, level 60 will be pretty much equal to level 55. That way they can keep some one year old, worn out ops around. (eke DF/DP)

 

Which begs the question, why level at all? Story? Story planets could be added without leveling. Gain 5 levels to get to 60 so you act as a 55?

 

Its a *** moment in gaming. sure it kills hybirds and helps them balance from that but the "DPS that got out of hand..... Really?. If it was DPS where the hell is all that metrics we hear about and how accurate it is?

 

Not reliable it seems after all.

 

Nobody cares what you expected. No matter what your teachers or parents told you growing up the world is not always going to be the way you want it or expect it to be.

 

You have two choices....

1) Adapt and continue playing

 

2) Not adapt and stop playing.

 

They also don't need to put out proprietors information just because a small minority of players are complaining.

[pquadro]

Watch it.

 

 

 

This was a great watch

 

 

Thank you

[Quraswren]

Nobody cares what you expected. No matter what your teachers or parents told you growing up the world is not always going to be the way you want it or expect it to be.

 

You have two choices....

1) Adapt and continue playing

 

2) Not adapt and stop playing.

 

They also don't need to put out proprietors information just because a small minority of players are complaining.

 

Its not about what any one person expects.

 

What is the point of leveling? You do not "level up" to be equal to where you started at. That is poor design.

 

Sure, take out hybrids for balance. Balance skills, turn talent tress into disciplines.

 

However, making it so gaining 5 levels in some kind of warped facade "leveling experience" that actually doesn't do all that much is a bit moronic design. Taking level 60 content and balancing it to 55 because the leveling up to 60 doesn't actually do anything, I find a bit hard to grasp. Designing level 60 content around level 55 ops you don't want to put out to pasture after it's been run for nearly a year is also a bit hard to swallow.

 

No needs to accept anything, as you said, anyone can leave. Gamers can also play the parts they like and complain about the part that screams " WTH is wrong with them?"

 

There is a myriad of choices in play here.

 

And Im not talking about simple reduction of DPS. Numbers don't mean all that much but given the relative nature of 55 to 50 now, you would expect it to be similar to 60 in 55 content. When it doesn't turn out that way, it makes me wonder, Just what the point is?

 

Leveling? Thats an illusion this go round. Leveling doesn't seem to mean Jack in SOR.

It's more like its being done to save to tired, old OPS and little to do with balance. Talent trees skills changes does that.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Quraswren

[tdmaha]

Its not about what any one person expects.

 

What is the point of leveling? You do not "level up" to be equal to where you started at. That is poor design.

 

Sure, take out hybrids for balance. Balance skills, turn talent tress into disciplines.

 

However, making it so gaining 5 levels in some kind of warped facade "leveling experience" that actually doesn't do all that much is a bit moronic design. Taking level 60 content and balancing it to 55 because the leveling up to 60 doesn't actually do anything, I find a bit hard to grasp. Designing level 60 content around level 55 ops you don't want to put out to pasture after it's been run for nearly a year is also a bit hard to swallow.

 

No needs to accept anything, as you said, anyone can leave. Gamers can also play the parts they like and complain about the part that screams " WTH is wrong with them?"

 

There is a myriad of choices in play here.

 

And Im not talking about simple reduction of DPS. Numbers don't mean all that much but given the relative nature of 55 to 50 now, you would expect it to be similar to 60 in 55 content. When it doesn't turn out that way, it makes me wonder, Just what the point is?

 

Leveling? Thats an illusion this go round. Leveling doesn't seem to mean Jack in SOR.

It's more like its being done to save to tired, old OPS and little to do with balance. Talent trees skills changes does that.

 

Or it's being done so they don't end up like WoW. Players used to do 500k dps now they are back to level 30 levels...that's a 60 level squish.

 

Yeah you can continue with your assumptions as to why it's being done, but when you have an agenda (doom and gloom) of coarse you will lean towards something negative.

 

I just experienced a stat squish in wow I have experience in this and sorry you and the rest making this into some doom and gloom for Swtor are out of line and no offense have no clue what you are talking about. Luckily you guys are just the minority of the player base and the Devs know this.

[Quraswren]

Or it's being done so they don't end up like WoW. Players used to do 500k dps now they are back to level 30 levels...that's a 60 level squish.

 

Yeah you can continue with your assumptions as to why it's being done, but when you have an agenda (doom and gloom) of coarse you will lean towards something negative.

 

I just experienced a stat squish in wow I have experience in this and sorry you and the rest making this into some doom and gloom for Swtor are out of line and no offense have no clue what you are talking about. Luckily you guys are just the minority of the player base and the Devs know this.

 

My argument has little to do wit stat squish but more along the line of relative content and difficulty if your talking balance.

 

At least in wow everything stayed relatively the same. You leveled up and generally got better from the content you left. You did not level up 5 levels to be at the same point you left from - even in WOW.

 

WHY? Because all the content was adjusted below that in a relative manner. At level 85 in Cata, I could run 80 WoTLK content much easier after leveling. Soloing many parts of it for fun. When I was 90 in MoP, I could do level 85 cata. content pretty easily.

 

What I did not experience is a worthless leveling system so I could be at the same place I was before I started. It's got little to do with numbers when BW says level 60 will be roughly the same as level 55 jsut so they can keep some year old worn out ops as more relevant - alternate ways to gear. IT kinda makes the entire point of level up at all a joke.

 

Sure, change the skill tress to balance the game and change skills to balance the game, kill hybrids to balance the game but turn leveling into nothing more than a mediocre side attraction or pointless task to keep some old ops available?

 

Of course we're a minority. Anyone on forums are the minority, no matter the side you take.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Quraswren

[Zoom_VI]

No, understand that's their motive.

 

Unfortunately, that horse already got out of the barn.

 

My real life job is largely about customer expectations, and one thing you simply don't do is "accidentally" deliver at a certain level, and then tell the customer "Oops, we know we've been providing these extra services for free, but that was entirely accidental, so now we're going to stop unless you want to pay more per order."

 

What bioware is doing is they are willing to take the brunt of temporarily unhappy customers over longterm unhappy customers.

 

A month after 3.0 drops after the new meta has sorted itself out, these threads will be back on page 20+ and we will have completely forgotten about this issue entirely. We already saw this with 2.0 where everyone was up in arms over the huge nerf to stat returns, and yet nobody complains about those anymore.

 

But leaving the power creep in place can lead to people being unhappy for much longer peroids. We already see evidence with one simple complaint that is seen frequently. "This game is too easy" We saw this when the NiM operations dropped, with many guilds clearing the highest level of content in the game on the first day it was live, and having it on farm mode within the week. And what's the point of playing the game if everything is on farm mode?

[Quraswren]

SNIP...

 

But leaving the power creep in place can lead to people being unhappy for much longer peroids. SNIP...

 

Quick question for you?

 

How does it stop power creep in the long term of things? So this time around, they make level 60 similar to level 55 in terms of power creep and doing a so called, "to much DPS"

 

What about next expansion? Make level 65 or 70 equal to 55 again? That way, no one does any more DPS than they did before and power creep is killed off but you never actually need to level again in a game based on leveling?

 

It's a band aid fix at best by turning 60 into level 55 just to lower DPS don't you think?

[BuriDogshin]

New lvl tier makes 186 worthless anyway. Now they make a year of playing the game worthless.

Well, if your goal is to get gear, and you suffer through playing the game to do that, yeah, maybe.

Not me though: I get the gear so I can play more of the game, not the reverse. So since my current gear will probably allow me to level through the new content, and start getting the new 60 gear, I'm fine.

 

And nothing they change in 3.0 can undo or diminish the fun I have already had in this game.

How could it? And don't we play the game to have fun?

[Zoom_VI]

Content is designed on a set of assumptions, one of those assumptions is DPS output. The level 60 content has likely been in production for quite some time as demonstrated by the content drought we have been in for the past year. They cannot simply change up the content they have been developing because players figured out ways to pull more DPS than they ought to be. Not that you would understand this as you will only read my paraphrased sentence at the bottom. Your method is terrible from a design standpoint as it requires devs to be constantly making content changes to adapt to random unforeseen changes in DPS output.

 

In short you design the classes to fit the content not change the content to match the classes.

[Lt-Snake]

I'm with you on tha tline of thinking.

 

Never have I leveled up just to be whee I was 5 levels ago. It goes against the entire point of leveling up.

 

Why do you level up? Because you are suppose to get strong by doing so.

 

However, BW's model is entirely different. You level up to actually be no better than when you started out.

 

IF it was all about story and changing DPS, they could just not add in the level up because lets be honest, at this point BW made leveling up pointless. Just add in the story planets and be done with it. You were not going to be stronger anyway so why add the artificial levels.

 

BW wants to keep DF/DP into play without actually having to do much so its' easier to just keep gamers at their current power levels.

It's a bit off-putting.

 

i agree with you, that leveling will be useless since you wont get any stronger as you go up, which beg the question you originally asked, why increase level the cap? if there's nothing to be gain when you reach the end? why not release 3.0 without raising the level cap..why do we need level if this is the way things are going to be moving forwards?

[Jrr_hypernova]

Well, if your goal is to get gear, and you suffer through playing the game to do that, yeah, maybe.

Not me though: I get the gear so I can play more of the game, not the reverse. So since my current gear will probably allow me to level through the new content, and start getting the new 60 gear, I'm fine.

 

And nothing they change in 3.0 can undo or diminish the fun I have already had in this game.

How could it? And don't we play the game to have fun?

 

You play this game for fun!?! Burn the witch!!

[pquadro]

Quick question for you?

 

How does it stop power creep in the long term of things? So this time around, they make level 60 similar to level 55 in terms of power creep and doing a so called, "to much DPS"

 

What about next expansion? Make level 65 or 70 equal to 55 again? That way, no one does any more DPS than they did before and power creep is killed off but you never actually need to level again in a game based on leveling?

 

It's a band aid fix at best by turning 60 into level 55 just to lower DPS don't you think?

 

 

Watch the power creep video on youtube

 

 

Is a step, alongside incomparables (disciplines that are real choices), in order to have combinations and variety and whatnot, and not kill the game for the gamers. A game that is supposed to be challenging and not a farm fest

 

Enjoyment in overcoming a threat is much different than lootwhores running content just to get the next shiny piece of armor that in actuality cost little effort. Go buy some rocks and blings for that

 

Is a damage adjustment that was needed and going forward they hope it will make them able to balance future content, this is by resetting some values and fine tuning to what they designed it to be but got out of hand, cos the creep was hungry.

 

Stop the hunger in the world, stop the power creep. Say no to the next one111!!! Big dick1111 dps useless whore in a warzone. You can do it.

 

I believe in you. Use the Force

[pquadro]

i agree with you, that leveling will be useless since you wont get any stronger as you go up, which beg the question you originally asked, why increase level the cap? if there's nothing to be gain when you reach the end? why not release 3.0 without raising the level cap..why do we need level if this is the way things are going to be moving forwards?

 

 

You my friend are confused

 

Think of two numbers X and Y

 

Y is lower than X

 

Now you are at 55 and do X damage

 

In SoR at 55 you will do Y damage

 

At 60, you will do similar to X damage (in the devs words)

 

So you see, you damage will still progress!

 

Yay for progress!

 

Do you like dyi magazines?

[Quraswren]

i agree with you, that leveling will be useless since you wont get any stronger as you go up, which beg the question you originally asked, why increase level the cap? if there's nothing to be gain when you reach the end? why not release 3.0 without raising the level cap..why do we need level if this is the way things are going to be moving forwards?

 

and it pretty much will be. The amount of DPS wont really matter at that point because BW still wants you to run year old content and the new ops apparently wont drop gear that makes much of a difference.

 

You will level to 60 and get new 192/198 gear and be damn near the same as you were at 55 in in 180/186 gear.

BW said you would be doing a bit less damage when 3.0 hits as 55 in Nim gear but the difference wont be some massive gap or gamers with lower gear would be hit much harder.

 

The idea of "leveling up" come SoR is just a facade.

[ZETA_SCORPII]

I'm just happy that my dps will FINALLY come down a bit. I was getting embarrassed going into raids and HM 55 FP's with so much power. Heavy is the head that wears the crown and I'll finally get to be like one of the peasants.

Thank you Bioware!! A HUGE burden has been lifted from my shoulders. The best part is that I won't get kicked from raids anymore for having too much dps

[ivanhedgehog]

I don't think you get the point. You seem to think the goal is to keep the status quo when it comes to content. The point *is* to make content harder, because right now the content is easier than its supposed to be, and rather than rebalance every single bit of group content in the entire game, they just rebalanced the classes.

 

what they actually said was that a few classes were putting out too much dps with 186 gear. balance would have been dealing with those cases. not kneecapping every class,including those not exceeding the arbitrary level. what they really wanted was to be able to claim that dp/df are still top level content. they are not "too easy" if 99.5% of the player base cant even start to clear them. balancing the entire game based on a few edgecases is an awful idea. only time will tell if this is a bad idea.