Max_Killjoy Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) There is implied consent by logging in that the event is active and you are part of it. There is acknowledgement of consent by not having a vaccine. "There is an implied consent that walking down this hallway means I get to harass you. You know that I harass people who walk down this hallway between 3rd and 4th period. If you didn't want to be harassed, all you had to do was go the long way around to get to your locker." If you don't like the parallel being drawn, stop walking the same line... I don't target a particular player to harm their experience. I doubt many do target individuals beyond who has a vaccine and who doesn't... How does the randomness of who is targeted make it better? Why do you hate the infection so much anyways? How does it harm your experience? I am being serious. Other than it bursting your insulated bubble of no-player interaction, how does it harm you? I want specifics, not just "I don't like it"... if we're to be rational, convince me with reason. Because I don't see anything that is being inflicted other than a small 2k cost (or less if you just jump down a chasm on fleet). Bubble of no interaction? I do heroics on multiple planets multiple times a week. What bothers me is the very fact that it's opt-out instead of opt-in, that it gives a certain type of player the ability to harass others unless they go out of their way to avoid it. And if you don't believe that the appeal of the event for some is precisely that ability to go around greifing other players, then I suggest you re-read this thread. It's the things that have been said in this thread, nothing before it, that have lead me to draw the parallels with the rationalizations that are used to justify far worse things in the real world. Edited October 29, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorgrimLutgen Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) I'm not trying to stand up for the pro infection people, but I see parallels.....like when I am drawn into a deadly battle by an NPC that catches me off guard, or I fall off of a platform, or get knocked off a bridge. The entire world of SWTOR rises up to try and exterminate us. Is it really wrong to face danger simply because it is a player and not an NPC? If it was an NPC that was infecting us, would it be ok then? I am an advocate for not forcing playstyles on others (like forcing a PVP flag) but in this case this disruption can easily be avoided or fixed...I just don't understand why having a player do it would be different than having a NPC do the same. You can fight back against NPCs, or anyone flagged for PVP. There is nothing you can do to these spluttering queens. Edited October 29, 2014 by ThorgrimLutgen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApostleThirst Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Those who enjoy inflicting the event on others, who stand around key points on fleet to ambush other players, who chase random other players who are clearly trying to avoid it... those would be the Raktrolls. Those who are willing to live and let live are not Raktrolls. Simple. What else would you call a mentality that puts the onus on those being targeted to avoid being dragged into something they want no part of, instead of on those who could just as easily leave them alone but choose not to? How else would you describe the mentality of "I don't care what that guy wants, I'm going to have my fun, and if he objects, that's his problem"? I'm many things. A bully is not among them. If YOU read carefully, all I have said and done is tell you to protect yourself instead of whining, and that your whining is unfounded by the idea that you can actually protect yourself. Again, you aren't being dragged into doing anything. All you have to do is buy a vaccine. Even if you do get infected, you can easily remedy that with the aforementioned vaccine or by simply /stucking your character. If you refuse to, that's your own fault, not anyone else's. You may not like what I'm telling you. That's tough - I don't dictate the truth, I just speak it. As already said, calling me a bully for that is being a bully yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Utter crap, and you know it. Actually, not utter crap... quite serious. If you know an event is active that is FFA, then by logging in you know you have to deal with that event. By logging in and not using a vaccine you are confirming that not only are you dealing with it, but you are open to being infected. And really... what is the big detractor from the event? What don't people like? Is it merely the principle of no free way to avoid it? Or is there a mechanic of it that is particularly detracting from your experience? I just don't get the crazed opposition to something that lasts 1 week... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 You can fight back against NPCs, or anyone flagged for PVP. There is nothing you can do to these spluttering queens. I find your insults far worse that a stupid in-game plague mechanic. What's my recourse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorgrimLutgen Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I'm many things. A bully is not among them. If YOU read carefully, all I have said and done is tell you to protect yourself instead of whining, and that your whining is unfounded by the idea that you can actually protect yourself. Again, you aren't being dragged into doing anything. All you have to do is buy a vaccine. Even if you do get infected, you can easily remedy that with the aforementioned vaccine or by simply /stucking your character. If you refuse to, that's your own fault, not anyone else's. You may not like what I'm telling you. That's tough - I don't dictate the truth, I just speak it. As already said, calling me a bully for that is being a bully yourself. Why should he buy a vaccine to pander to your enjoyment rather than his? Feel free to explain that part in detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 You can fight back against NPCs, or anyone flagged for PVP. There is nothing you can do to these spluttering queens. You fight back by taking a vaccine. And that is quite a bit easier to do I might add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorgrimLutgen Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I find your insults far worse that a stupid in-game plague mechanic. What's my recourse? Perhaps making a stand for fairness? Allow the victim to strike back? Any reason you object to that concept? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 "There is an implied consent that walking down this hallway means I get to harass you. You know that I harass people who walk down this hallway between 3rd and 4th period. If you didn't want to be harassed, all you had to do was go the long way around to get to your locker." Who is the individual saying that? Do they have the authority to make such claims? Bioware has the authority to make statements about the current status of the game servers. Current status: Rakghoul Event! A bully has no authority to make the statements in your quote. They are free to say them, but they have zero grounds to stand on to enforce them... in fact, quite the opposite; they are in violation of the authoritative bodies by enforcing them. So... you're wrong. Choose a better analogy, otherwise you're just a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Perhaps making a stand for fairness? Allow the victim to strike back? Any reason you object to that concept? No. You just want revenge on the 'sploders. That's not fairness. That's anger and vitriol. Take it elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorgrimLutgen Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 You fight back by taking a vaccine. And that is quite a bit easier to do I might add. If the vaccine was free and persisted through death, therefore giving those who do not wish to participate the option to utterly opt out, you would be correct. Fighting back though would be much more fun. Oh wait a second, it's not about everyone's fun though it is, just some people's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorgrimLutgen Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 No. You just want revenge on the 'sploders. That's not fairness. That's anger and vitriol. Take it elsewhere. Double standards, I see, at least the truth is coming out at last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) Who is the individual saying that? Do they have the authority to make such claims? Bioware has the authority to make statements about the current status of the game servers. Current status: Rakghoul Event! A bully has no authority to make the statements in your quote. They are free to say them, but they have zero grounds to stand on to enforce them... in fact, quite the opposite; they are in violation of the authoritative bodies by enforcing them. So... you're wrong. Choose a better analogy, otherwise you're just a troll. 1) the parallels remain regardless -- the rationalizations are the same regardless of this supposed notion of "authority to make such claims" 2) I guess you've never observed the way in which "authorities" have historically turned a blind eye, or even subtly encouraged the sort of behavior this parallels Edited October 29, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 If the vaccine was free and persisted through death, therefore giving those who do not wish to participate the option to utterly opt out, you would be correct. Fighting back though would be much more fun. Oh wait a second, it's not about everyone's fun though it is, just some people's? You already have people who have agreed persist through warzone death is a good idea... There are already reusable relics that cure you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) Double standards, I see, at least the truth is coming out at last. Who has anger and vitriol by just participating in the event? 1) the parallels remain regardless 2) I guess you've never observed the way in which "authorities" have historically turned a blind eye, or even subtly encouraged the sort of behavior this parallels They aren't parallels. They are completely different. Your saying otherwise doesn't make it true. As such, Bioware isn't encouraging bullying... because it isn't bullying... Edited October 29, 2014 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorgrimLutgen Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 You already have people who have agreed persist through warzone death is a good idea... There are already reusable relics that cure you. Why do I need to take part in the event to avoid taking part in the event? Please feel free to explain in detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorgrimLutgen Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Who has anger and vitriol by just participating in the event? They aren't parallels. They are completely different. Your saying otherwise doesn't make it true. As such, Bioware isn't encouraging bullying... because it isn't bullying... YOU said, it's not fair to take retribution against "sploders", I would suggest it's not fair for the "sploder" to explode over me. See the double standard ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Why do I need to take part in the event to avoid taking part in the event? Please feel free to explain in detail. Because you are assisting THORN in dealing with the Rakghoul outbreak. It makes sense they'd authorize the distribution of equipment to deal with it once you've earned their favor. Question, have you ever killed Nightmare Pilgrim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) YOU said, it's not fair to take retribution against "sploders", I would suggest it's not fair for the "sploder" to explode over me. See the double standard ? Open combat != debuff that does nothing for 20 minutes. See the difference? And I didn't say it was "unfair", I said several times that I saw mechanical and technical issues with it. Open combat on fleet being one of the big issues... Edited October 29, 2014 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) They aren't parallels. They are completely different. Your saying otherwise doesn't make it true. As such, Bioware isn't encouraging bullying... because it isn't bullying... The lengths that people will go to, to make themselves believe that what they enjoy is "harmless", no matter the effect on others... (And as noted numerous times, "parallels with the thought processes used to justify bullying" != "bullying". Never mind that it's all the comments made by the defenders of the event's opt-out setup that lead one of the observation that the parallels exist. It never occurred to me before this thread to draw that parallel.) Edited October 29, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorgrimLutgen Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Because you are assisting THORN in dealing with the Rakghoul outbreak. It makes sense they'd authorize the distribution of equipment to deal with it once you've earned their favor. Question, have you ever killed Nightmare Pilgrim? Excellent, the penny is dropping for you at last, and by assisting THORN I should be able to kill all the plague carriers right ? Of course not, I do not PVE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 The lengths that people will go to, to make themselves believe that what they enjoy is "harmless", no matter the effect on others... Explain the harm then.... I have asked, you have avoided. Explain the harm of the event? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 If the vaccine was free and persisted through death, therefore giving those who do not wish to participate the option to utterly opt out, you would be correct. Fighting back though would be much more fun. Oh wait a second, it's not about everyone's fun though it is, just some people's? Well...I don't know. Sure, taking a vaccine might not be fun....though it is fun to prevent the infection and see players get frustrated because they can't infect anyone. I see that all the time. They even complain in chat. As for free, sure, reducing to 100 credits or even 1 credit could be ideal...and having it persist through death makes sense to me. But to remove it all together, or compare it to some kind of intrusion like PVP? I find myself incredulous to the notion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Excellent, the penny is dropping for you at last, and by assisting THORN I should be able to kill all the plague carriers right ? Of course not, I do not PVE. I think they're more concerned about the plague sources than the subsequent outbreak. I am not against adding a PVP element, but I stand by the issue with open warfare on fleet between carriers and non-carriers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) Explain the harm then.... I have asked, you have avoided. Explain the harm of the event? Asked and answered. Edited October 29, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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