You know, it really is rude to pull if you're not the Tank.

[hadoken]

Honestly it's really the healer who would be offended and hard pressed to keep up if this was a big deal, not the tank. Tank shouldn't really be ************ about it.

[Dras_Keto]

Even if you're in full 186 gear as a DPS, you don't have Defense, Shield, or Absorb rating. If the Tank does not intervene, you will get dropped. The healer will simply not be able to keep up with all the damage you're failing to mitigate. So either be patient and let the Tank do his/her job so you can finish the FP without a wipe, or find another tank.

 

Tell that to the Verpine geared sorc who healed my Verpine/Oriconian marauder through the ENTIRETY of Hammer station. Yeah, just the two of us. The only pulls we did with a tank were the patrolling Elite at the start. The two Silver droids at the door, and the small group of one silver and 3 or 4 standard before the death pull.

 

You might be suprised at what people can do given sufficient skill.

[Halinalle]

Tell that to the Verpine geared sorc who healed my Verpine/Oriconian marauder through the ENTIRETY of Hammer station. Yeah, just the two of us. The only pulls we did with a tank were the patrolling Elite at the start. The two Silver droids at the door, and the small group of one silver and 3 or 4 standard before the death pull.

 

You might be suprised at what people can do given sufficient skill.

 

Healers... Who even needs them?

[Kalfear]

Next pull, he jumps in when nobody is ready,.

 

LOL stopped reading because OP has experienced the standard Sent/Marauder GF issue

 

I dont know why Sents and Mauraders think they are tanks but 90% of them do this crap every single time

 

That or they refuse to leave boss to fight adds and just sit there jumping on boss while healers around them dieing.

 

I HATE to stereotype a class but I have more Mauraders/Sents on ignore from this crap then all of the all classes combined.

 

Loads, sadly ths not a new issue for these classes.

Seems force leap drains IQ points from DPSer and they all get leap happy no matter how often you tell them not to.

[Loadsamunny]

Tell that to the Verpine geared sorc who healed my Verpine/Oriconian marauder through the ENTIRETY of Hammer station. Yeah, just the two of us. The only pulls we did with a tank were the patrolling Elite at the start. The two Silver droids at the door, and the small group of one silver and 3 or 4 standard before the death pull.

 

You might be suprised at what people can do given sufficient skill.

 

That's not most randoms. That's the rare elite player.

[Grayseven]

That's not most randoms. That's the rare elite player.

 

Yep, and Hammer Station is probably the easiest of the 55 HM's anyway. Try the dog pulls in Mando Raiders or Athiss and you'll find it a different story.

[Loadsamunny]

Yep, and Hammer Station is probably the easiest of the 55 HM's anyway. Try the dog pulls in Mando Raiders or Athiss and you'll find it a different story.

 

Athiss is easy, except some players are retarded and like to eat fireballs in the final fight. Mando Raiders is only tricky in the final boss because healing through the turrets is rough, and DPSing them down takes time.

 

You'd be surprised how many healers I get who fail to cleanse the first boss laser in Hammer. And who get too close to the pit in the final boss and don't move away from grenades.

Czerka Labs is the easiest 55 HM imho, easy bosses that do piss-poor damage, easy pulls, and short.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Loadsamunny

[Spetulhu]

I HATE to stereotype a class but I have more Mauraders/Sents on ignore from this crap then all of the all classes combined.

 

Well, sent/mara is the huntard suspect of SWtoR. Every new player reaching the character creation screen sees this cool loking dude with not one but TWO lightsabers! That must be übercool to play!

[Grayseven]

Athiss is easy, except some players are retarded and like to eat fireballs in the final fight. Mando Raiders is only tricky in the final boss because healing through the turrets is rough, and DPSing them down takes time.

 

You'd be surprised how many healers I get who fail to cleanse the first boss laser in Hammer. And who get too close to the pit in the final boss and don't move away from grenades.

Czerka Labs is the easiest 55 HM imho, easy bosses that do piss-poor damage, easy pulls, and short.

 

The damage output from the dog pulls in Athiss is higher than normal for trash. Boss fights don't seem to be the issue in this thread. Trash pulls can kill even the best geared dps if they decide to pull and no one helps them. Since I heal more than I do anything else I can honestly say that dps that pull first do not get heals if it is obvious that they want to jackrabbit the FP.

 

Tac's are a bit different, but if there is a tank in the group they should still set the pace no matter how easy the tac is.

 

In short, dps that can't control their ADHD and play as a group member in a FP will get the boot vote from me. I don't have to do FP's through GF as I have plenty of guild options but on the rare occasions I do use GF I simply won't put up with someone who wants to force everyone to play "their game".

[Loadsamunny]

The damage output from the dog pulls in Athiss is higher than normal for trash. Boss fights don't seem to be the issue in this thread. Trash pulls can kill even the best geared dps if they decide to pull and no one helps them. Since I heal more than I do anything else I can honestly say that dps that pull first do not get heals if it is obvious that they want to jackrabbit the FP.

 

Tac's are a bit different, but if there is a tank in the group they should still set the pace no matter how easy the tac is.

 

In short, dps that can't control their ADHD and play as a group member in a FP will get the boot vote from me. I don't have to do FP's through GF as I have plenty of guild options but on the rare occasions I do use GF I simply won't put up with someone who wants to force everyone to play "their game".

 

Another FP I tanked for yesterday had a DPS that wouldn't stop pulling even after I asked him politely. He claimed "it's just a tactical, calm down." And when I initiated a votekick, he called me scrub, worthless tank, douche, etc.

[jimbothirtytwo]

A few things:

 

- If you're tanking a FP, you should look on it as part of your job to be pulling the instant that everyone is ready. There are far too many tanks who stand there staring at mobs with everyone at full health and ready to roll. Personally, I try to set a very fast pace when tanking FP's - people are less likely to afk or get distracted by guild chat or whatever if there's very little downtime. When playing on my dps, I've initiated pulls just because the tank is so damn slow. If you don't want dps pulling, make sure you're the first one in.

 

- With the situation that the OP experienced, there's not much you can do except votekick. Or at least that's how it sounded. Not only was the guy jumping in before everyone was ready, he was also tossing around blame and not taking responsibility for his own stupidity.

[Loadsamunny]

A few things:

 

- If you're tanking a FP, you should look on it as part of your job to be pulling the instant that everyone is ready. There are far too many tanks who stand there staring at mobs with everyone at full health and ready to roll. Personally, I try to set a very fast pace when tanking FP's - people are less likely to afk or get distracted by guild chat or whatever if there's very little downtime. When playing on my dps, I've initiated pulls just because the tank is so damn slow. If you don't want dps pulling, make sure you're the first one in.

 

- With the situation that the OP experienced, there's not much you can do except votekick. Or at least that's how it sounded. Not only was the guy jumping in before everyone was ready, he was also tossing around blame and not taking responsibility for his own stupidity.

 

I waste as little time as I can, but I'm less concerned with setting a fast pace and more with making sure the team is ready instead of just assuming it. People may say "that tank is slow" but nobody is saying "that tank is bad at holding aggro or staying alive". If you don't have the time to commit to a FP, you shouldn't be queueing for one.

 

I'll take a slow tank that can hold aggro anyday over a fast tank that cannot.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Loadsamunny

[IndigoHawk]

No, it is not the tank's role to pull as soon as everyone is ready.

 

The tank sets the pace. If the tank is too slow for you, then you should be the tank next time.

 

If you have experience as dps and tank then you should know better than to just start the fight to move things along when you're dps. Some tanks are slow. Some aren't very good. Some are great.

 

You can't change how skilled people are by rushing them or telling them they should be better. When people step on other roles or rush ahead because they can handle it, group morale suffers and even the slightest mistake can tear the group apart. Compare that to doing a slower run where the group completes the content.

 

If you're too good of a player to deal with slow tanks, then you should be good enough to have friends who will do the content with you. If not, then work with who you get. Or tank and set the pace.

[jimbothirtytwo]

No, it is not the tank's role to pull as soon as everyone is ready.

 

The tank sets the pace. If the tank is too slow for you, then you should be the tank next time.

 

The idea that no tank is too slow because it's the tank's prerogative to set whatever glacial pace they feel like is preposterous. If the rest of the group is standing around picking their noses before every pull, the tank is too slow. I've been in groups as a dps where the rest of the group had to say "on you, dude" to the tank before nearly every pull. Trying to say that it's acceptable to hold up a group like that is just insane.

 

The reality is that if dps queues for FP's didn't take forever, a lot of tanks would be votekicked. There's so many tanks out there who are either slow as cold molasses, complete prima donnas, or just plain bad. I'm not sure which one of those I dislike more, which is why I generally only run HM FP's on my tank.

[Deewe]

If ever that was so easy. Happened once: pushed off a mob a marauder jumped into... followed down the cliff.

 

Next time he waited a bit before jumping in. Wonder why.

 

BTW as a tank sometimes we are slower than what some players wants. Maybe it's just we're not in the mood of storming trough the FP. You are always free to quit the group or roll a tank.

[Loadsamunny]

The idea that no tank is too slow because it's the tank's prerogative to set whatever glacial pace they feel like is preposterous. If the rest of the group is standing around picking their noses before every pull, the tank is too slow. I've been in groups as a dps where the rest of the group had to say "on you, dude" to the tank before nearly every pull. Trying to say that it's acceptable to hold up a group like that is just insane.

 

The reality is that if dps queues for FP's didn't take forever, a lot of tanks would be votekicked. There's so many tanks out there who are either slow as cold molasses, complete prima donnas, or just plain bad. I'm not sure which one of those I dislike more, which is why I generally only run HM FP's on my tank.

 

I'm not making people wait around 5 minutes for each pull. But I'm also not gonna speed things up unnecessarily just because you're in a hurry to finish. Your time constraints are not the tanks problem.

[McSomething]

Had a FP once where the healer was pulling aggro constantly. Would jump into a room and do an AoE. Good god was that a bad run.

[aceavenger]

Dude I can't tell you how many people I have on ignore on my Guardian tank just for this very reason. Or most recently healers in 140 gear that just finished his 12x xp push and now thinks he can heal and DPS at the same time.

[tharbison]

I agree with you op. This is a trinity based mmo. Everyone has their role. Pulling before the tank upsets their pull strategy, creates chaos, bad mojo in the group, puts pressure on the healer, and puts the entire group at risk. If someone else wants to pull, they should roll a tank.

[HelinCarnate]

Only a pain if you're a terrible tank, you don't need all your cooldowns up every pull.

 

^^ QFT

 

Some spots you do need to make sure you have your CDs ready. The vast majority do not. On my Juggie I use saber reflect and that's it for 95% of the fights and that's only for extra damage.

Edited October 27, 2014 by HelinCarnate

[Loadsamunny]

^^ QFT

 

Some spots you do need to make sure you have your CDs ready. The vast majority do not. On my Juggie I use saber reflect and that's it for 95% of the fights and that's only for extra damage.

 

Challenging Call is the only one I need up for every pull.

[Darth_Wicked]

Challenging Call is the only one I need up for every pull.

 

If you use Challenging Call at every turn, you are doing something wrong.

[Loadsamunny]

If you use Challenging Call at every turn, you are doing something wrong.

 

It has a lower CD than Saber Reflect. You shouldn't be using Saber Reflect at every turn either.

 

Some pulls are too wide to be picked up with Sweep, Cyclone, or Guardian Slash.

[Kirazy]

So pull faster, Tank.

 

I say this as a Tank, as a DPS, and as a Healer. :C Very, very few things do you need to stand around for longer than what it takes to target the next group and engage.

[Heat-Wave]

It's still rude man. You shouldn't pull just because "you can handle it." It's bad etiquette, even for pubs.

 

And if you do, you can't expect the tank not to yell at you for it.

 

We each have our own opinions on what is and what is not rude...

 

If the tank asks me not to pull trash, then I'll respect that. They usually don't care, but yes, from time to time they'll say something.

 

I generally try to go at the pace and speed of the tank, they more or less run the show, but thanks to tactical flashpoints, that has become muddy. I'm not a fan of tacticals.