You know, it really is rude to pull if you're not the Tank.

[DarkDisturbed]

Normally I don't get so mad at people trying to do my job for me. People are impatient and want to clear a FP quickly, I understand this. But it really is bad etiquette to pull for your tank. It's rude, it's a slap in their face, regardless of whether they're keeping up or going a bit slow. Even in an easy FP like a 50 or a Tactical, it's rude.

I

Get over it. There is no need for tanks in tacticals, if you're slow and want to act like supertank in a tactical you're going to have people pulling before you.

[Halinalle]

Get over it. There is no need for tanks in tacticals, if you're slow and want to act like supertank in a tactical you're going to have people pulling before you.

 

There's no need for healer in SM FPs if we believe one certain Merc. Also if we believe that same Merc, tanks have their AoE taunt at level 29 and should be spamming it.

[DollQueen]

The occasional oops, that sometimes occurs with the Sentinels/Marauders leaping ability isn't a big deal, it happens. I've done it a few times, but you quickly recognize the trend.

 

Man, I hate when I accidentally do that. Doesn't happen often, but when it does, I apologize all over myself every time and feel really bad when my group is nice enough to save my ***. Luckily, I don't do Operations, so I think that's why my groupmates are understanding.

[Grayseven]

Only a pain if you're a terrible tank, you don't need all your cooldowns up every pull.

 

Not true. Not everyone in a FP is geared in 180 gear, especially right now with everyone zipping to 55 due to the 12x xp and trying to get gear for new toons.

 

It can be difficult to try to keep the mobs on you instead of running off to your under-geared healer if you don't have your full arsenal. Add to that people gearing tanks and you'll run into your slower tanks being careful to ensure that a wipe doesn't slow things down further.

 

If you don't like the way the tank is doing things as a dps...well, tough really. Your tank sets the pace whether you like it or not and if you try to jump out and pull your tank would be smart to just stand back and watch you die. If you want a rapid run then you need to form your own group instead of using GF.

 

Otherwise, deal with it. Until these new 55's start getting geared you're going to keep running into these types of things and if you don't like it, don't run GF.

[Halinalle]

Not true. Not everyone in a FP is geared in 180 gear, especially right now with everyone zipping to 55 due to the 12x xp and trying to get gear for new toons.

 

Not to even mention that

level 54 Veracity implants/earpiece + 156/162 + 4x 146 setbonus armoring is considered to be "undergeared" for 55 HMs.

[Pirana]

Man, I hate when I accidentally do that. Doesn't happen often, but when it does, I apologize all over myself every time and feel really bad when my group is nice enough to save my ***. Luckily, I don't do Operations, so I think that's why my groupmates are understanding.

 

Yeah, it happens. I remember playing on my Smuggler, tab targeting and hitting the cc'd one and causing a wipe. I'll even offer to pay for the repair costs of the group. I don't like causing a wipe anymore than anyone else does. We're human and we make mistakes. You hopefully learn from it and move on.

 

It's the trends most people pick up on while moving from mob to mob. It becomes clear in a short time how a group will perform. and sometimes it's best to just cut your losses, and not cause multiple wipes because the tank isn't allowed to do their job, which is, allow the tank to pull. If that doesn't happen, remove the disruptive player.

 

Non trinity groups excluded.

[Grayseven]

Not to even mention that

level 54 Veracity implants/earpiece + 156/162 + 4x 146 setbonus armoring is considered to be "undergeared" for 55 HMs.

 

I think people forget how tough some of these HM 55's can be when you are at the "appropriate" gear levels to run them, let alone undergeared because you hit 55 faster than you could gear up.

 

I was healing some HM 55's the other day in my 180 gear. Not only did I have nearly double the HP of the dps but the tank only had 29k hp. It was the first time in a long time I was actually busy in a FP.

[Loadsamunny]

I'm not dissing the op when I say this in the slightest but the few times I've done some group finder flashpoints the tank has quite often been sooooooooooo slow it's insane. You can be thorough without being insane slow, there's nothing worse than having a tank in your group that seems to wait a minute between every encounter

 

Then again when it comes to tanking on the even far fewer situations when I've done some tanking I'm one of the fast ones, never seems to take long to check peoples health and energy/force levels.

 

I don't like making my group wait, but if my Challenging Call is on cooldown and the next pull is too spread out for me to pick up conventionally, I'm not jumping in until it's ready.

 

I don't make them wait 5 minutes in between pulls, but it's better to be safe than sorry. I'd rather a FP take a few more minutes to complete than to ramp up everyones repair bill unnecessarily because they (or I) weren't ready.

[Halinalle]

I think people forget how tough some of these HM 55's can be when you are at the "appropriate" gear levels to run them, let alone undergeared because you hit 55 faster than you could gear up.

 

Except that's not even close to undergeared.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Halinalle

[Spetulhu]

Except that's not even close to undergeared.

 

With the 12x XP boost you see a lot of players in not-so-great gear. When I did my first FPs as a new 55 back in the days I'd instead often see entire groups of people with 35K+ health when I was on 20K or so. Maybe some still think those guys in full OPS gear is the "right" gear?

[Grayseven]

Except that's not even close to undergeared.

 

No, it's appropriate to 55 HM's which means you can't speed run and need to pay attention. In gear appropriate to 55 HM's you can still easily wipe if you push too hard.

[Heat-Wave]

My philosophy when playing a tank; You pull it, you deal with it.

 

And as an overpowered DPS, I do that sometimes, but I only pull what I can kill without the tank's help.

 

Honestly, if we're in a 50 HM FP and I'm on my Commando with full 180 gear, please don't yell at me when I pull trash mobs, it is more of a tactical at that point.

 

Boss fights? Yea, I let the tank go first.

 

BTW, as a tank (I play a Guardian most), I don't mind when DPS pulls trash, it rarely matters most of the time, unless the DPS is underpowered. But at this stage of the game, many of them are overpowered and it doesn't matter.

[Halinalle]

No, it's appropriate to 55 HM's which means you can't speed run and need to pay attention. In gear appropriate to 55 HM's you can still easily wipe if you push too hard.

 

How do you gear properly if

- Veracity = best in slot until Dread Forged(?)

- 4 piece 146 set bonus > 162 without (can't get Arkanian set bonus without running operations as tank)

- All 156/162 pieces are above the recommended 148.

[Loadsamunny]

And as an overpowered DPS, I do that sometimes, but I only pull what I can kill without the tank's help.

 

Honestly, if we're in a 50 HM FP and I'm on my Commando with full 180 gear, please don't yell at me when I pull trash mobs, it is more of a tactical at that point.

 

Boss fights? Yea, I let the tank go first.

 

BTW, as a tank (I play a Guardian most), I don't mind when DPS pulls trash, it rarely matters most of the time, unless the DPS is underpowered. But at this stage of the game, many of them are overpowered and it doesn't matter.

 

It's still rude man. You shouldn't pull just because "you can handle it." It's bad etiquette, even for pubs.

 

And if you do, you can't expect the tank not to yell at you for it.

[Warrgames]

I think people forget how tough some of these HM 55's can be when you are at the "appropriate" gear levels to run them, let alone undergeared because you hit 55 faster than you could gear up.

 

This is going to be a HUGE problem when 3.0 comes out. People are going to try and run the new HM like they do now.

[Zoom_VI]

It's still rude man. You shouldn't pull just because "you can handle it." It's bad etiquette, even for pubs.

 

Rude? I'm here to do a flashpoint, not cater to some oversensitive tank's ego. If nobody dies it doesn't matter.

 

And this is coming from someone who has spent the majority of their SWTOR career playing tanks.

[BuriDogshin]

It's still rude man.

Says you, but who made you "Miss Manners of SWTOR"?

 

Too many people take offense when none is intented.

Too many people think their way of running FPs is the One True Way.

That's the path to the Dark Side. Anger, dissapointment, and rage-quit lie down that path.

Try embracing the philosophy of "No Wipe, No Foul" and you may find pugging FPs a lot more enjoyable.

[Warrgames]

Says you, but who made you "Miss Manners of SWTOR"?

 

Too many people take offense when none is intented.

Too many people think their way of running FPs is the One True Way.

That's the path to the Dark Side. Anger, dissapointment, and rage-quit lie down that path.

Try embracing the philosophy of "No Wipe, No Foul" and you may find pugging FPs a lot more enjoyable.

 

Until that play style leads to a wipe, than what? Suck it up and move on? "No wipe, no foul" is retarded because it is only works till you wipe the group. Letting tank pull doesn't lead to wipe.

[Dras_Keto]

Not to even mention that

level 54 Veracity implants/earpiece + 156/162 + 4x 146 setbonus armoring is considered to be "undergeared" for 55 HMs.

 

Thats slightly above where you should be for just starting out...

 

It's still rude man. You shouldn't pull just because "you can handle it." It's bad etiquette, even for pubs.

 

And if you do, you can't expect the tank not to yell at you for it.

 

How the heck is that bad etiquette? If the tank is taking unnecessarily long and you pull and handle the group, the only person who should feel bad about it is the tank. Cause unless there is some crazy situation going on (nim geared dps and way undergeared tank who cant survive a single trash pull without a CD) if the DPS is ready and can handle a pull without you, then the group was ready and you should have pulled already.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Dras_Keto

[Grayseven]

Thats slightly above where you should be for just starting out...

 

 

 

How the heck is that bad etiquette? If the tank is taking unnecessarily long and you pull and handle the group, the only person who should feel bad about it is the tank. Cause unless there is some crazy situation going on (nim geared dps and way undergeared tank who cant survive a single trash pull without a CD) if the DPS is ready and can handle a pull without you, then the group was ready and you should have pulled already.

 

Because the tank sets the pace. It's that simple. The tanks job is to start the fights and keep agro. And if you read the OP, the DPS pulling ISN"T handling the group, he's dying.

 

Even a superbly geared DPS can get smoked by pulls in 55 HM FP. Unless you are the tank, you don't know when the tank is ready. If you don't like how long the tank is waiting between pulls, drop the group. Otherwise, pulling because your panties are in a wad like you have something more important to do than actually let the tank do their job is not only rude, but will get you booted out of most groups relatively quick.

 

If you wonder why more and more players who play tanks refuse to use group finder, YOU and the people like you are the reason.

[Halinalle]

Thats slightly above where you should be for just starting out...

 

Starting out?

- 4 piece 146 set bonus -> 162 without set bonus = reduced DR for Shadow/Assassin

- Can't get Arkanian (162) set bonus without running operations (higher gear requirement than 55 HMs)

- Can't get DF (180) implants/earpiece without running operations with very high gear requirement.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Halinalle

[Loadsamunny]

Says you, but who made you "Miss Manners of SWTOR"?

 

Too many people take offense when none is intented.

Too many people think their way of running FPs is the One True Way.

That's the path to the Dark Side. Anger, dissapointment, and rage-quit lie down that path.

Try embracing the philosophy of "No Wipe, No Foul" and you may find pugging FPs a lot more enjoyable.

 

And when a wipe happens because DPS pulled when the tank/group wasn't ready, does the "No Wipe, No Foul" philosophy still apply?

[Dras_Keto]

Starting out?

- 4 piece 146 set bonus -> 162 without set bonus = reduced DR for Shadow/Assassin

- Can't get Arkanian (162) set bonus without running operations (higher gear requirement than 55 HMs)

- Can't get DF implants/earpiece without running operations with very high gear requirement.

 

Yeah... if you have that youre above the grade of gear you should have before doing HM 55 FPs...

 

You realise youre agreeing with me and that I was agreeing with you, right?

[Loadsamunny]

I'll make a note here of people claiming some tanks to be "unnecessarily slow." Sometimes they're like that for a good reason. Several, usually, and this applies to me as well.

 

-Making sure everyone is together and the healer is ready. Random AFKs happen a LOT and they do lead to wipes (especially if it's the healer who randomly goes AFK without warning). Frequently.

-Making sure I target the right mob, and that I can pick up all the nearby trash. If Challenging Call is not up at the very least (and preferably Saber Reflect as well, to generate threat on ranged that won't move), I don't even think about making a pull.

-Making sure my position is correct. More than once I've jumped into a pull, gotten knocked back in such a way as to separate me from my group, and they get the aggro and wipe because I picked a bad spot to jump from. I see this happen a lot on Hammer Station.

 

Better safe than sorry. I'm not going to jeopardize the safety of my team and create unnecessary down time and repair bills simply because the DPS is in a hurry. If you don't like it, drop the group. Slow and steady gets the job done without complications. Fast and loose is a gamble, and not one I'm comfortable with.

 

Even if you're in full 186 gear as a DPS, you don't have Defense, Shield, or Absorb rating. If the Tank does not intervene, you will get dropped. The healer will simply not be able to keep up with all the damage you're failing to mitigate. So either be patient and let the Tank do his/her job so you can finish the FP without a wipe, or find another tank.

[Halinalle]

I'll make a note here of people claiming some tanks to be "unnecessarily slow." Sometimes they're like that for a good reason. Several, usually, and this applies to me as well.

 

-Making sure everyone is together and the healer is ready. Random AFKs happen a LOT and they do lead to wipes (especially if it's the healer who randomly goes AFK without warning). Frequently.

 

This is main reason for me and of course the fact that I'm blind (or at least they keep saying that).

 

-Making sure my position is correct. More than once I've jumped into a pull, gotten knocked back in such a way as to separate me from my group, and they get the aggro and wipe because I picked a bad spot to jump from. I see this happen a lot on Hammer Station.

 

Painful memories... False Emperor and I didn't know where to tank last boss. That knockback.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Halinalle