GSF Tier List

[tunewalker]

This thread is not about guides, or balance changes. This is about what the Current balance IS and why. What ships define the Meta and where they lie and why. This thread is for thoughts on how the Meta is, now how we would like it to be. Thanks.

 

 

Top Tier

T2 Scout

T1 Gunship

 

These 2 ships define the meta in nearly every game mode. They have 2 missile breaks and great burst damage and what I like to call threat range, the range at which these ships are threatening to other ships around them, because the long range on the Rail gun and the high efficiency and speed to close in of the scout. Further more their burst damage is not reliant on mid to long missile locks and they have high evasion (which many show to be mathmatically the best type of defense) by both having access to armor and Distortion field.

 

 

High Tier

T1 Bomber

T2 Bomber

T3 Gunship

 

The 2 bombers I place in high tier because they are essential in Domination which makes up 60% of the game (3/5 maps) and actively compete and are capable of destroying the top tier T2 scout, if the scout pilot isnt super careful. While the T3 Gunship comes in rounding out the High Tiers do to its ability to successfully "hybrid" doing both the Job of the Top Tier T1 GS and Top Tier T2 Scout, but of course no where near to their success level, but being able to both Rail gun and fight effectively up close makes for a good alternative to the other Top Tier ships.

 

Mid Tier

T3 Strike

T3 Scout

T1 Scout

T3 Bomber

 

This Tier might as well be called the Type 3 tier as you can tell. The strike and the scout hit the upper portions of the Mid tier because they still make meaningful additions to the current Meta. The strikes access to reactor and armor and the ability to heal with out a destroyable drone makes it an incredibly tough customer and can add further support to the top tier ships, same can be said for the scout. The reason both of these ships land lower is because of their inability to truly bring the burst damage that higher ships can bring, thus being unable to truly compete with Top Tier ships with out the support of other Top Tier ships. The strike gets higher billing then the Scout because of its ability to equip Charged plating and handle High Tier Bombers. The T1 scout and T3 bomber round out the bottom, because while not the best at their role, the role they DO preform they can do so adequetly enough to the Top or High Tier ships that running them isnt all that bad. The T1 scout is bassically just a weaker version of the T2 when built properly, and the T3 bomber can preform a similar role to the T1 bomber, just missing replacing siesmic mines with the less useful missiles, and adding the supremely useful Powerdive to his repertoire.

 

 

Bottom Tier

T2 GS

T1 Strike

T2 Strike

 

These ships bassically dont have a place in the Meta at the moment. They preform no role and bring nothing to the table that isnt covered better else where. The T2 GS gets higher billing because it still has a railgun, but with the lack of Distortion field, and with the addition of mostly useless Long lock missiles instead of much more useful Ion Rail or Short Lock missiles it finds itself massively weaker then all other GS. The T1 strike's ability to swap weapons is slightly undercut by its lack of speed and evasive abilities as well as lack of truly good weapon selections to choose from. The T2 strike is limited by missile lock and reload times vs the most prevelent ships abilities to defend against such missiles, additionally its speed was crippled by the Increased CD of Barrel roll severely limiting its ability to dog fight. Niether strike brings anything to the table thats not done supremely better by the T3 Strike, Scout and Bomber thanks to their access to highly useful systems abilities.

 

 

Share your thoughts on the current Meta, or if you have other reasons you think the Meta is how it is. Reminder this is NOT about asking for any changes, this is how the Meta currently is and why.

If you wish to cover specific components (say make a Primary weapon tier list or a Shield Tier List) feel free, but again this is not about asking or suggesting changes. This is about what we have now and why it is that way and possibly how to deal with it.

Edited October 21, 2014 by tunewalker

[Verain]

This was unwise, and you should not have done it. I am surprised by how reckless you can be, Tune.

 

 

With a couple minor points, I agree entirely with your ranking. But I hate the idea of this thread.

 

The points I'll wiggle on are this:

1)- The type 1 bomber could be argued to be top tier.

2)- The type 3 strike could be argued to be second tier. It really is surprisingly effective and flexible.

 

 

 

The reason I don't like the idea of the thread is it basically becomes a one-stop shop for a dev who doesn't want to read all actual debate and conversation, while ALSO quickly poisoning the minds of the playerbase. EVERY game that lists tiers tends to brainwash the playerbase, because that then becomes the metric for comparison. I think it's more than adequate to tell a new player to look into the following ships, and to expect that they could be nerfed, or the other ships will be increased, at some point in the future.

 

 

Anyway, a tier list creates a whole NEW crappy map for everyone to believe is the territory. A post like this can do a lot of harm, because it compresses a field of data into a tight little ball. Today, you tried to help people by ranking the ships, tomorrow the devs will announce a buff for the tier 3 scout and instead of everyone saying "sounds cool, might be powerful / fun", the question will get phrased as "Did it it bump it to high tier?" and "Yawn, call me when it's god tier". If we get the mild battlescout nerf we want, it will now be "what tier is it postnerf?".

 

 

I've seen this language created on other forums, and it can hurt debate in surprising ways.

 

 

 

And where credit is due, solid job boiling the ships down. I really do think you nailed it. You even have them ranked properly INSIDE each tier.

[MiaowZedong]

I agree with most but not all of what you posted. Especially:

The T1 scout is bassically just a weaker version of the T2 when built properly

This is not true. You can build the T1 scout as a gimped T2 (and in that, it isn't as far behind the true battlescout as you suggest) but 'properly' built, you have considerably more speed at the expense of raw survivability. While it does require higher skill to make work, it has shown itself competitive in terms of how many kills it can get. You could argue it's less good as it essentially takes more skill to reach a similar performance, but it's certainly a very lethal build.

 

I would say:

First Tier:

T2 Scout

T1 Gunship

T3 Gunship

T1 Scout

The defining characteristic of this tier is high ability to kill the enemy and survive in any situation. As such, these are ships that are always welcome in a competitive team, and when solo queuing good players generally want to be in one of these four ships. The T2 scout and T1 GS are arguably the better ships in this tier, certainly the most popular, but all four of these ships are excellent ships that are competitive, at least, under all circumstances.

 

Second Tier:

T1 Bomber

T2 Bomber

T3 Strike

T3 Scout

The defining characteristic of this tier is being situationally excellent: with some maps and matchups, these ships can become part of the optimal team composition for the match. Unlike the First Tier ships, they are not always the best choice for a competitive match, but under some circumstances their contribution to the team (if not to your personnal stats) can be as good as the First Tier ships. You see these ships alot more in premades than on solo queuers for these reasons. The T3 scout is clearly bottom in this tier, because of how narrow its field of excellence is.

 

Third Tier:

T3 Bomber

T1 Strike

These ships can perform acceptably, but better ships will always have an edge over them. The T1 Strike generally fills essentially the same role as the T1/T2 scouts but its few advantages don't make up for the disadvantages. It can also serve as a specialised bomber buster, though enough other ships can fill this role than it simplies doesn't make up for the disadvantages. The T3 Bomber is a true hybrid ship and can sometimes combine to great effect with team-mates, but it just doesn't reach the same performance levels as some other ships.

 

Fourth Tier:

T2 Strike

T2 Gunship

These ships are basically flown just for fun. This is the meta garbage tier. They can be enjoyable, they can work in many games, but in a truly hard, competitive match, they just don't have a place.

Edited October 21, 2014 by MiaowZedong

[Verain]

Ha, never mind, everyone's gonna fight. I think we're safe.

 

Tune, one more thing: the actual problem with the tiering language isn't that it isn't descriptive (it is) or accurate (it is) or fast guidance for devs (it is) or good guidance for building teams (it is) or good guidance for leveling ships (it is). It's that it is fragile.

 

Pretend, for a moment, that there was a technical glitch that prevented the tier 2 scout from entering battle. No battle scouts, devs are sorry, fix in two weeks.

 

Over those two weeks, would everyone move up a box? Or would it juggle the heck out of it?

 

 

I submit it is the latter. You'd suddenly see the starguard go from right near the bottom to "best dogfighter", you'd suddenly see type 1 scout go up to meet the rising gunship threat, etc, and you'd very likely see bombers become a little less effective. In other words, the because this tiering is entirely determined by pvp, the meta is a really big part, and is not represented.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Verain

[caederon]

I'd move T1 scout to your 'High Tier,' T1 Strike and T3 gs to 'Mid Tier,' and T3 scout to the bottom of the 'Mid Tier.'

 

I guess my Mid Tier would be...

Mid Tier

T3 Strike

T3 GS

T1 Strike

T3 Bomber

T3 Scout

 

There's a reason I see so many people choose T3 scout in domination, hit tensor, then immediately self destruct to get a real ship. The reason being Tensor Field is great, but after that initial burst leaving the capship, other ship choices are almost always better for the developing game.

 

T1 Strike can be pretty effective at a few roles. It has really solid shield strength, good midrange weapon options, and ion cannon isn't bad. It has retro thrusters, which can make it pretty tough in a dogfight. It's at least a mid-tier ship. It's not great, but it can be durable and capable of good damage. It can be set up to be effective against bombers and turrets.

 

T3 GS and Bomber are unessential ships which in the right situations can be fun to fly, but as hybrids they don't do any one thing spectacularly. T3 GS mainly gets extra points since it has a railgun and nice missile options, but it can't fulfill the support role of the T1.

 

T1 Scout was a ship I took a while to get warmed up to, but it can be really deadly and very hard to kill. It's an unforgiving ship to learn, and its weapons (rockets mainly) require a lot of practice to get good at, but it has plenty of potential and can be used very well as a harasser to hit & run and it has excellent mobility.

 

- Despon

[caederon]

Over those two weeks, would everyone move up a box? Or would it juggle the heck out of it?.

You're completely right, of course, but this is the internet, and I hear that they take away your Internet Credentials if you don't engage in a 'List These Things In Some Defensible Order' thread at least once a month. Gotta fulfill the quota.

[tunewalker]

Ha, never mind, everyone's gonna fight. I think we're safe.

 

Tune, one more thing: the actual problem with the tiering language isn't that it isn't descriptive (it is) or accurate (it is) or fast guidance for devs (it is) or good guidance for building teams (it is) or good guidance for leveling ships (it is). It's that it is fragile.

 

Pretend, for a moment, that there was a technical glitch that prevented the tier 2 scout from entering battle. No battle scouts, devs are sorry, fix in two weeks.

 

Over those two weeks, would everyone move up a box? Or would it juggle the heck out of it?

 

 

I submit it is the latter. You'd suddenly see the starguard go from right near the bottom to "best dogfighter", you'd suddenly see type 1 scout go up to meet the rising gunship threat, etc, and you'd very likely see bombers become a little less effective. In other words, the because this tiering is entirely determined by pvp, the meta is a really big part, and is not represented.

 

Actually, that's the point, I am glad you pointed this out. That is a point that it should get accrossed.

 

The "List" as it were or the "meta" when buffs come or nerfs or what have you will drastically shift. The T1 Scout is only as low as it is because it adds little compared to what the T2 adds. If the T2 wasnt their you would see a huge shift in the List of what is and why.

Edited October 21, 2014 by tunewalker

[Verain]

I'd move T1 scout to your 'High Tier,' T1 Strike and T3 gs to 'Mid Tier,' and T3 scout to the bottom of the 'Mid Tier.'

 

Yes, yes, garble it all up. Yessssssss Tower of Babel this new language before it becomes some shorthand that twists all eyes, renders all colors red.

 

 

There's a reason I see so many people choose T3 scout in domination, hit tensor, then immediately self destruct to get a real ship.

 

The reason is that this is how you worship Sol Invictus, the Unconquered Sun.

 

Also because the bomber you are hopping will give you a ride with beacon.

 

 

 

And for what it's worth, I actually think that systems abilities should all spawn with 30 seconds of cooldown, all of them.

 

 

T1 Scout was a ship I took a while to get warmed up to, but it can be really deadly and very hard to kill.

 

Look, his point is that it's a bad version of a type 2 scout. And that's mostly true. It DOES have builds that only it can access, but these are strange utility builds. Rocket pod build? Better on a battle scout. The GOOD builds it has are better on a type 2 scout. The shield to engine version feels weaker than disto, the sensor component never lines up with the reactor, the laser cannon is normally a weaker version of quads.

[Magira]

Hm, I see some things differently and depending on the situation. You throw together here Domination and TDM, group and solo and make an average. Because I would answer it differently.

 

I write out my top three ships depending on game mode.

 

Domination solo + group

 

T1 Bomber

T3 Scout

T1 GS

 

This does not change whether solo or group. T3 Scout and T1 bombers are indispensable, T1 GS depending on the situation.

 

TDM solo

 

T3 GS

T2 Scout

T1 Scout

 

T3 GS is mobile and can defend himself alone, T2 Scout is the solo ship itself and T1 scout for enemy GS.

 

TDM group

 

T1 GS

T2 Scout

T3 Strike

 

T1 GS with ION Slug as support of the Scouts, Scout for Dogfighting T2, T3 Strike as a very good support ship.

 

And as I write this I notice again that I would like 6 places in the hangar. In fact 7, a troll ship I would also like always present.

[Danalon]

Pretend, for a moment, that there was a technical glitch that prevented the tier 2 scout from entering battle. No battle scouts, devs are sorry, fix in two weeks.

 

Over those two weeks, would everyone move up a box? Or would it juggle the heck out of it?

 

I probably would switch to a mixture of T3 gunship, T2 bomber, T1 strike and T1 scout.

 

Edit: I already use those ships, mainly for farming achievements, but also depending on situation. Maybe I would try T1 gunship.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Danalon

[tunewalker]

This was unwise, and you should not have done it. I am surprised by how reckless you can be, Tune.

 

 

With a couple minor points, I agree entirely with your ranking. But I hate the idea of this thread.

 

The points I'll wiggle on are this:

1)- The type 1 bomber could be argued to be top tier.

2)- The type 3 strike could be argued to be second tier. It really is surprisingly effective and flexible.

 

 

 

The reason I don't like the idea of the thread is it basically becomes a one-stop shop for a dev who doesn't want to read all actual debate and conversation, while ALSO quickly poisoning the minds of the playerbase. EVERY game that lists tiers tends to brainwash the playerbase, because that then becomes the metric for comparison. I think it's more than adequate to tell a new player to look into the following ships, and to expect that they could be nerfed, or the other ships will be increased, at some point in the future.

 

 

Anyway, a tier list creates a whole NEW crappy map for everyone to believe is the territory. A post like this can do a lot of harm, because it compresses a field of data into a tight little ball. Today, you tried to help people by ranking the ships, tomorrow the devs will announce a buff for the tier 3 scout and instead of everyone saying "sounds cool, might be powerful / fun", the question will get phrased as "Did it it bump it to high tier?" and "Yawn, call me when it's god tier". If we get the mild battlescout nerf we want, it will now be "what tier is it postnerf?".

 

 

I've seen this language created on other forums, and it can hurt debate in surprising ways.

 

 

 

And where credit is due, solid job boiling the ships down. I really do think you nailed it. You even have them ranked properly INSIDE each tier.

 

Just a Quick note, on the T1 Bomber and the T3 strike, I largely agree with you which is why they are at the top of their respective tiers. The bomber not being put on Top because of its lack of use in TDM, and the T3 not being placed in the High Tier because I already had 3 ships there lol.

 

Note to every one. The list is NOT gospel, nor is it ever intended to be. It was just a visual representation of how I have seen the current Meta. The Intent is to discuss how the Meta is, the list itself is just one of many ways to easily visually see what the current meta of ships is and my reasoning behind it.

 

While I truly believe the T1 Scout and the T3 GS are great ships and can hold their own, I feel other ships do their job/jobs better. there are other reasons even why some ships I put higher but didnt put the full reason, this is just a short easy to visually see break down of the current Meta. Its not set in stone, its not something that cant radically change tomorow, its not something to be taken as you either play this or you always lose. None of that is true.

 

I am glad some discussion has begun, but I would like less discussion of the Tier's or how you would rank them and more on the Meta as a whole, more on the Why some ships are useful and others arent. Some of you have given that and I appreciate that. Please keep the discussion about What is, and lets stay away from what should be (which everyone has done a fantastic job of doing so far so thank you )

[RickDagles]

I think that the T3 gunship may actually be better than the T1 gunship under many circumstances. Powerdive and regen thrusters means you should never get hit by a missile. And the lack of armor isn't a big deal since there are so many BLC and HLC users out there with ignore enemy armor upgrade. The only real drawback is the lack of ion railgun. And even that is becoming less useful now that everyone is using powerdive which works with 0 engine reserve. The AoE is pretty nifty against scouts that fly too closely to teammates but I wouldn't say it's a game changer. Edited October 22, 2014 by RickDagles

[tunewalker]

I think that the T3 gunship may actually be better than the T1 gunship under many circumstances. Powerdive and regen thrusters means you should never get hit by a missile. And the lack of armor isn't a big deal since there are so many BLC and HLC users out there with ignore enemy armor upgrade. The only real drawback is the lack of ion railgun. And even that is becoming less useful now that everyone is using powerdive which works with 0 engine reserve. The AoE is pretty nifty against scouts that fly too closely to teammates but I wouldn't say it's a game changer.

 

Armor Piercing doesnt ignore "armor upgrades" it ignores damage reduction. Things like Lightweight armor which add to evasion is not effected by Armor Piercing.

 

Also reminder a Tier list and the list itself (or at least the list I put together) IS NOT x ship is ALWAYS better then Y ship, its just the meta is more defined by those ships rather then by the others. High Tier ships and Mid tier ships are still apart of the Meta just more player preference or only used for specific situations is involved rather then pure strength of the ship.

 

Edit: Again reminder to everyone the list I put together is just an easy to see map of what I have seen of the Meta, it is not gospel, it is not a measure of ships in 1v1 situations, it is not a guide, it is not a suggestion of what should be, nor is it a true measure of the usefulness of every ship in every situation. That's not what this thread is about. Its about what the meta is and how it evolved into what it is. That is a decent question for all, why do you guys think the T2 Scout and Gunships largely dominate the Meta, why did it come to be this way. Why does no one use the T2 GS, what uses in the Meta do the ships I listed at the mid tiers have, because as I just said they DO have a purpose.

 

I really should have put this into a different format, but it was the easiest to understand visually, but as Verain said..... yaaaa for its intent and meaning being lost.... whoops.

Edited October 22, 2014 by tunewalker

[Drakkolich]

I think that the T3 gunship may actually be better than the T1 gunship under many circumstances. Powerdive and regen thrusters means you should never get hit by a missile. And the lack of armor isn't a big deal since there are so many BLC and HLC users out there with ignore enemy armor upgrade. The only real drawback is the lack of ion railgun. And even that is becoming less useful now that everyone is using powerdive which works with 0 engine reserve. The AoE is pretty nifty against scouts that fly too closely to teammates but I wouldn't say it's a game changer.

 

While I agree somewhat with the first part, that the thrusters and power dive make you virtually immune to missiles.

I feel you are confused about what armor penetration does. It make the targets damage reduction become 0%, it does not "ignore" their armor component slot. The lack of the armor component makes you much weaker in gunship to gunship battles and is why most people consider the T1 gunship superior. Also that it has Ion railgun makes a huge difference too.

 

For everyone out there that thinks armor penetration makes you ignore your opponents armor component how on earth would it ignore them having more health? I'm speaking of the reinforced armor component here. After lots of testing when the game first came out we concluded it was the damage reduction that it ignores.

[Nemarus]

As a T1 Scout devotee, I'd say that the S2E hit and fade build is potential superior in TDM to the T2 Scout for well-known pilots, especially if they are solo queuing. That build of T1 Scout is simply great for avoiding getting focused or suppressed, as well as for scooping up powerups.

 

But for Domination it is useless, and the T2 Scout is always superior. In general through, I'd say the T1 Scout belongs in the High (2nd) Tier.

 

As for the rest of the list, OP seems spot on, though perhaps a little hard on the T1 Strike. The Ion/HLC/Cluster build does have some unique utility, and helpful as part of a team. I think that one build lifts it above the T2 Gunship and Strike.

[RickDagles]

I feel you are confused about what armor penetration does. It make the targets damage reduction become 0%, it does not "ignore" their armor component slot. The lack of the armor component makes you much weaker in gunship to gunship battles and is why most people consider the T1 gunship superior.

 

Hmm well the tooltips are very confusing then. Why does the tooltip for the T2 bomber railgun drone Lvl4 upgrade specify ignore enemy hull damage reduction rather than just say the same thing as all the other ignore enemy armor upgrades?

 

So T1 is better when the enemy has a good gunship player or two, but T3 may be better if there isn't an opposing gunship.

[Verain]

Hmm well the tooltips are very confusing then. Why does the tooltip for the T2 bomber railgun drone Lvl4 upgrade specify ignore enemy hull damage reduction rather than just say the same thing as all the other ignore enemy armor upgrades?

 

Because it is newer. It is the same thing.

[ALaggyGrunt]

It depends heavily on what kind of fight you're looking at.

 

On Domination, mass bomber stacking will often win the match. Seriously, I took a bomber-killing Clarion into one of those and killed bomber after bomber, but it took too long. It laughed at every mine and drone they threw at it and charged plating wasn't an issue, but the bombers just kept coming. The bombers came out with very few kills, but it ended up a 3-cap loss because our team was never able to evict them from a sat long enough to capture it. If that had been a deathmatch, well... that strategy would have been really dumb.

 

So:

Deathmatch Tier 1: Stingfire and Mangrrel.

The turn rate on Mangrrels means the only way to seriously threaten them with a scout is with very close-range BLC attacks. Try to line up a shot on one with laser cannons/quads, and you have a choice: you can attempt a pass starting at 4km or less and get ripped apart by BLC, or you can start at 5.5km and get hit by the railgun.

Deathmatch Tier 2: Dronecarriers (repairs and some area-denial vs. stingfire) and Striker-With-Railgun+BLC (type 3 gunship)

Deathmatch bottom tier: Anything without distortion field and/or a railgun should find a hole to hide in and stay there. If it's not skilled enough to be a threat, it's a boring easy target. If it is skilled enough to be a threat, it's still a boring easy target. The reason this isn't true in most matches is: most gunships aren't very good shots and/or do something wrong with Wingman (not take it/use it too early) and/or fail to be aware of their surroundings.

 

Domination Tier 1: Drone/minelayer are effective against most things. They're very good at area denial, which is the other name of the game.

Domination Tier 2: Type 1 strikers are good against some bombers, but weak against others. Type 1 scouts with laser cannon and TT+CF can make short work anything without charged plating, without getting too close to the minefields.

Domination really-bad-idea list:

EMP scouts are weak against minefields. Seismic mine detonations out-range EMP field's AoE, and a smart bomber will keep a mine ready for precisely that: EMP field/missile won't disable the bomber's secondary weapon slot. Also, if there are enough concussion and seeker mines floating around the sat, you will be lucky to get close enough to take out even two of them with EMP before you have to break a missile lock They can disable charged plating, so not too bad if you have a teammate with non-piercing guns ready to finish the job. EMP field is good if the other team was dumb enough to set 3 gunships really close together.

[Magira]

I think that the T3 gunship may actually be better than the T1 gunship under many circumstances. Powerdive and regen thrusters means you should never get hit by a missile. And the lack of armor isn't a big deal since there are so many BLC and HLC users out there with ignore enemy armor upgrade. The only real drawback is the lack of ion railgun. And even that is becoming less useful now that everyone is using powerdive which works with 0 engine reserve. The AoE is pretty nifty against scouts that fly too closely to teammates but I wouldn't say it's a game changer.

 

Yes, I agree. In my experience, the T3 is superior to the T1 in Kuat Mesa, since mobility is the most important thing. Both solo and in spontaneous group.

 

Lost Shipyards, it is difficult because I would usually put the T1 in the first place, in all cases in group with strong Scouts / Strikers. Solo I'm not sure.

 

Although I do not fly the T3 with Power Dive but with retros, I find it very useful for after the first shot on an opponent GS again out of reach to come. That makes up for the lack of armor, I think.

 

But this is not conclusive, but just my impressions from longer tests. At least with my current air flying opportunities, in 2-3 months may be different again.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Magira

[tommmsunb]

I've never seen a thread on these forums that has made me want to throw crap at my monitor and yell "You must be really bad at this game". Congratulations, you've done it. This game is entirely skill based and those skills may lend to a specific ship more than others. In certain hands, any ship can be top tier if played correctly. Edited October 22, 2014 by tommmsunb

[Verain]

The map based dependency doesn't come up much in these discussions. Tune considered it- specifically, he considered how a Razorwire is a vastly different beast in TDM versus Domination- and Magira hits on it by pointing out that the Type 3 and Type 1 gunship get different stuff out of the two TDM maps (and I believe that the Type 1 is superior on both, disagreeing, but I do agree that the relative value changes a lot).

 

In fact, while lost shipyards dom and kuat dom are very similar (except kuat dom is like half of games, lol!), I really feel the other three maps are VERY different. Denon gives great rewards for beacon and tensor, much more so than the other maps. The ability of a spearpoint to actually ferry a bomber from C to B with tensor means that the ship has way more power there than on any other map, and the opening boost with and without tensor is huge as well. Meanwhile, a decently placed beacon can basically let you spawn slightly closer to a node than the base spawn points on Kuat Dom, and that beacon can be REALLY far back from the center line- meaning it would basically take an enemy scout to go hunt it down (it's obviously LOS of gunships unless you derped the placing of it).

 

Denon rewards speed in general, regeneration thrusters, heals, and defensive flight. They also allow for a very fast swarm attack in most games to A or C.

 

 

The two TDM maps are also pretty damned different from each other: Kuat has this whole passageway network below, allowing you to get wherever you want without going in range of a gunship. It has plenty of tight spaces in RELEVANT places as well, rewarding that kind of flight. I definitely feel that Kuat rewards scouts and bombers relatively more than lost shipyards (both TDMs make gunships very important, because if a gunship is sniping you can't just make him worthless by hiding behind a rock like you can in Dom). Lost Shipyards TDM is the most gunshippy map, and I doubt any would disagree.

 

 

I think that would actually be kind of useful to mention with each ship: like, what kind of map and playstyle this ship or build can go with. That's a relevant section of discussion where only the edges have been touched.

[Drakkolich]

I've never seen a thread on these forums that has made me want to throw crap at my monitor and yell "You must be really bad at this game". Congratulations, you've done it. This game is entirely skill based and those skills may lend to a specific ship more than others. In certain hands, any ship can be top tier if played correctly.

 

You can't really think that certain ships/builds arn't better for certain situations and that some players have practiced on all these ships so that they have all the tools available to them for said situations? I'd also like to point out that scouts are so good right now that they can be used on every map to great effectiveness. There is never a point where hey we really don't want the most mobile and high dps ship on this map.

 

However there are many ships like a Razorwire/Rampart mine bomber that are only good in certain situations. You would never play a charged plating/hyperspace beacon Razorwire/Rampart in a lost shipyard deathmatch that's just silly and hurt your team.

 

Further more have you even practiced all these different builds enough in all these situations to even weigh in? I've only ever seen you flying high dps scouts and strikes. I'm really curious as to how much gunship or bomber practice you've had in the specific situations others are talking about.

 

Look forward to your reply.

[LilSaihah]

I'm probably gonna go with an average between TDM and Domination, mostly for the sake of how you build your ship lineup.

 

S tier:

T2 scout

T1 gunship

 

These ships are good in both gamemodes. They are so good you might want to consider running them along with their Cartel Market equivalents so you can have a dedicated loadout for each gamemode, but they're still more than good enough to hold their own without specialising that much.

 

A:

T3 Strike

T1 Bomber

T2 Bomber

T1 Scout

T3 Gunship

 

Two sets of ships here:

1. Point bunkers which are really really good in domination but not so good in TDM.

2. Ships which are very similar to the S ships, but which trade raw output for some form of utility.

 

B:

T3 Scout

 

Bloodmark has one button which is really, really, REALLY good- so good that it can win games. Unfortunately, that's it- beyond pressing that button, the ship is subpar to everything above.

 

C:

T1 Strike

T2 Strike

T2 Gunship

 

These are 'mercy' ships. You fly it when you want to spare new players from the cruel, heartless reality of war.

 

IDFK:

T3 bomber

 

I haven't flown this ship enough to tell where it goes. The only thing I know is that it's not S tier; it probably hovers somewhere around B.

[Ryuku-sama]

I'm probably gonna go with an average between TDM and Domination, mostly for the sake of how you build your ship lineup.

 

S tier:

T2 scout

T1 gunship

 

These ships are good in both gamemodes. They are so good you might want to consider running them along with their Cartel Market equivalents so you can have a dedicated loadout for each gamemode, but they're still more than good enough to hold their own without specialising that much.

 

 

A:

T3 Strike

T1 Bomber

T2 Bomber

T1 Scout

T3 Gunship

 

Two sets of ships here:

1. Point bunkers which are really really good in domination but not so good in TDM.

2. Ships which are very similar to the S ships, but which trade raw output for some form of utility.

 

 

B:

T3 Scout

 

Bloodmark has one button which is really, really, REALLY good- so good that it can win games. Unfortunately, that's it- beyond pressing that button, the ship is subpar to everything above.

 

C:

T1 Strike

T2 Strike

T2 Gunship

 

These are 'mercy' ships. You fly it when you want to spare new players from the cruel, heartless reality of war.

 

IDFK:

T3 bomber

 

I haven't flown this ship enough to tell where it goes. The only thing I know is that it's not S tier; it probably hovers somewhere around B.

 

This part is false. T1 scout can dish out as much DPS as a T2.. even more if you consider LLC'n'pods with TT.

[tunewalker]

This part is false. T1 scout can dish out as much DPS as a T2.. even more if you consider LLC'n'pods with TT.

 

T2 scouts have access to LLC'n'pods with TT, most dont go with it though cus its not as good as Quads'n'pods with TT or Burst and Cluster with TT or Burst and pods with TT.

 

Short hand is, T2 can do that to, but better because it has a reactor instead of sensors.

 

 

 

Edit: also what Verain said, I would like more of the discussion on ships in certain maps and certain situations. Which maps favor which ships, which maps favor what team comp... like to hear peoples thoughts about this, that may actually shift things around in my own list... but we will see.

Edited October 22, 2014 by tunewalker