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The Gamers of Today... Are the same as the Gamers of Yesterday folks.

ZionHalcyon

By ZionHalcyon
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Gomla

Gomla

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Jesus th ere needs to me iq checks here

 

I honestly wouldn't ask for IQ checks if I were you, it would be a shame to see you go.

 

 

This is the first time i've ever physically cringed at something another poster has linked to back up his story...

 

Something a random nobody typed out. Something a random nobody typed up after, in his own words....

 

in-depth surveys completed by roughly 15 players.

 

And you seriously called someone else stupid after linking someones college study as actual evidence of anything that in itself contains no actual evidence of anything....

 

No wonder people put you on ignore.

Edited by Gomla
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SithKoriandr

SithKoriandr

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TOR forums aren't that bad. When your forums require a sub they tend to have better atmosphere than a free for all forums like TERA.

 

That of course doesn't mean there won't be those who people consider trolls (though I think that term gets thrown around by most people as "I don't like your post...you're a troll") or just people you disagree with.

 

There will also of course be those elitest types who like to put everyone on ignore and then think they can hold any sort of conversation on a forum :p *note: They can't*

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Elyx

Elyx

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I think that when people pine for the "good old days" they tend to forget that it wasn't really the "game" but the experience, and the people they connected with that made it special.

 

I remember a while back i tried a private WoW BC server. everything i remembered it to be. Know what? it really wasn't as fun as i had thought. it had all the right stuff...but i didn't have my old guild there to enjoy it with. crack jokes, laugh about an experience, help one of my buddies on a quest or two...prepare for another raid night...

 

that's usually what makes up those "good old days" in MMO's. and we tend to remember the good stuff, and disregard the bad.

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Gomla

Gomla

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I think that when people pine for the "good old days" they tend to forget that it wasn't really the "game" but the experience, and the people they connected with that made it special.

 

And the fact that we were younger and MMO's were new.

 

When I first stepped into Meridian 59 back in 1996 I was 16 and the internet was becoming a household thing (yay for dial up).

 

After 18 years we've pretty much seen and done everything we can possibly do with MMO's. People say this game is different to others but, as much as I enjoy it, i've seen it all before. Same old questing, same old gearing up, similar talent trees. There isn't much here that is unique.

 

When I pine for the old days I want to get that "new" feeling again. I play every MMO I can get my hands on from AAA releases to obscure free to play titles. I've found some good ones I play quite a lot but I never get that sense of "freshness" I got when it was all new.

 

One thing I hear from some MMO players is they want top end raid gear so others will be impressed and aim to be like them.

 

Yeah, that did happen once. Now people just don't really have any interest in what others are doing.

 

There was a realm merge in another game I played and top raid guilds all stood around low level zones in their best gear and mounts and they were met with a resounding "meh". Not one person gave a damn.

 

Times have changed and so have the players. Some of us got older while younger players joined in.

Edited by Gomla
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Elyx

Elyx

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And the fact that we were younger and MMO's were new.

 

When I first stepped into Meridian 59 back in 1996 I was 16 and the internet was becoming a household thing (yay for dial up).

 

After 18 years we've pretty much seen and done everything we can possibly do with MMO's. People say this game is different to others but, as much as I enjoy it, i've seen it all before. Same old questing, same old gearing up, similar talent trees. There isn't much here that is unique.

 

When I pine for the old days I want to get that "new" feeling again. I play every MMO I can get my hands on from AAA releases to obscure free to play titles. I've found some good ones I play quite a lot but I never get that sense of "freshness" I got when it was all new.

 

One thing I hear from some MMO players is they want top end raid gear so others will be impressed and aim to be like them.

 

Yeah, that did happen once. Now people just don't really have any interest in what others are doing.

 

There was a realm merge in another game I played and top raid guilds all stood around low level zones in their best gear and mounts and they were met with a resounding "meh". Not one person gave a damn.

 

Times have changed and so have the players. Some of us got older while younger players joined in.

 

Roger that. That was the same feeling i was searching for when i hopped onto the private servers and had my realization. that "new and exciting" feeling comes back a bit every time i try out a new MMO I've been looking forward too.

 

On a different note, after reading the thread, I realize i have hopped into a much older argument between a small group of old school players. Based on some of the comments i have a hard time taking the debate between the two groups at face value (a.k.a there's a history here). but I will say this.

 

I think both sides have a bit of truth in them. OP was right. smaller communities means smaller presence of issues. Stuff was still there. I still remember griefers, ninjas, etc. it's tough to say how many bad people there are in a game when you cut them out of the community...you don't' interact with them anymore. it's like shutting off general chat, and then talking about how peaceful the game is.

 

But on the flip side, there was more consequence to your actions. I remember even in wow how things changed after they instituted the LFG tool. the environment changed. allot. back when you had to talk with people , interact with them, wait at a summoning stone to bring the others in...you actually talked. i got a much more complete sense of who i was running with (and a more personal connection with them) when we talked.

 

And that talking often established them as a "person" in a more real way. when i run FP's over here, i get the same results when i engaged people, crack a few jokes, etc. suddenly the environment was more open and friendly, and people enjoyed the run more. they are more open to trying different things, and more tolerant to mistakes, etc.

 

Can we do it now (a.k.a talk, get people involved)? yes, I do it allot. but it's optional. back in the early days i rarely ran a group without some positive casual conversation. nowadays i can run multiple FP's without a single word. sometimes ill even try and talk...and no response.

 

not to isolate LFG solely (it certainly makes grouping easier), but I think there's enough weight behind the opposite argument to give some of it merit.

Edited by Elyx
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Gleneagle

Gleneagle

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The new gamers come from a different culture than we did. I talked with my son about it and he agreed, although he did have some odd takes on what the 'Love' generation was actually like. But talk to anyone who employs both young people and older people and they'll tell you about some serious differences between generations, their respective attitudes, the different ways they approach personal relationships... everything. So I don't think I can agree with the OP. Maybe his experience is with different groups of people, but No. The younger set of players is different from the older set.
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well

well

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DA2 was the worst forum I ever dealt with. It was a Borg forum. You will be assimilated. I always wondered what happened to the Stasi after the Wall came down. They became gamers who lurked on the forums. Now BG 1 forum was the Wild Wild West. It was fun in a way. People who came on the forum asking for help got it. They didn't have a bunch of Princesses just waiting to jump on them for asking a question. Not like some forums.....:eek:
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Gomla

Gomla

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How could we not see something new, when computers are becoming much more powerful and sophisticated?

 

Again, that's just improvements.

 

Machines are far more powerful now than they were 20 years ago but we still see pretty similar things.

 

I don't think you understand what i'm saying.

 

I don't think we'll see innovation, entirely new things we've never seen before. No matter how much technology advances we'll still be doing the same things in MMO's than we're doing now. It will just be a lot more shiny.

 

It doesn't matter if they program the best AI in the world that can practically think for itself. You'll still have to kill 20 of them for a random quest.

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Gleneagle

Gleneagle

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Again, that's just improvements.

 

Machines are far more powerful now than they were 20 years ago but we still see pretty similar things.

 

I don't think you understand what i'm saying.

 

I don't think we'll see innovation, entirely new things we've never seen before. No matter how much technology advances we'll still be doing the same things in MMO's than we're doing now. It will just be a lot more shiny.

 

It doesn't matter if they program the best AI in the world that can practically think for itself. You'll still have to kill 20 of them for a random quest.

Hm. I disagree, but here is how I disagree. You're right we won't see anything new until something new is really needed.

 

Most people usually say, and rightly, that it is common sense to avoid 'fixing' what ain't broke. Yet were that invariably the case we would still be hunting with pointy stone -tipped sticks. Remember Robert Heinlein? Technology goes through three stages:

  1. Something new demands a solution, so somebody innovates and invents a technology
  2. The new technology is great but it is cumbersome or unwieldy, inefficient, so to overcome those failings it grows increasingly complex and difficult
  3. Finally the new technology is refined, eventually simplified, and made elegant.

Then everything is the 'don't fix what ain't broke' world... until something new requires invention.

 

We will see development and evolution when it is absolutely necessary, and not before.

 

Before we see anything new in MMOs, what is old and cumbersome with MMOs will get better.

Edited by Gleneagle
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Gomla

Gomla

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Hm. I disagree, but here is how I disagree. You're right we won't see anything new until something new is really needed.

 

Most people usually say, and rightly, that it is common sense to avoid 'fixing' what ain't broke. Yet were that invariably the case we would still be hunting with pointy stone -tipped sticks. Remember Robert Heinlein? Technology goes through three stages:

  1. Something new demands a solution, so somebody innovates and invents a technology
  2. The new technology is great but it is cumbersome or unwieldy, inefficient, so to overcome those failings it grows increasingly complex and difficult
  3. Finally the new technology is refined, eventually simplified, and made elegant.

Then everything is the 'don't fix what ain't broke' world... until something new requires invention.

 

We will see development and evolution when it is absolutely necessary, and not before.

 

Before we see anything new in MMOs, what is old and cumbersome with MMOs will get better.

 

Technically we don't disagree.

 

You just seem far better at wording it than I am.

 

I know we'll see, probably, vast improvements on what we have in MMO's today but I think it will be a while, if ever, that the mechanics in those games change to something we've never seen.

 

Arguably they don't need to be changed. What we have now does work.

 

I can't see the future so I can't say for sure. I'm only going by what we've seen for the past 18 years and that MMO's now are pretty similar to what we had then. All that's changed is they are lot better looking and run a lot smoother. We're still doing the same quests with the same kind of progression. But, as you say, if it aint broke.

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Gleneagle

Gleneagle

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I think 'Disciplines' is an effort to bring Heinlein Tech Stage II into Stage III.

 

Most likely results will be marginal, but at least the skill system in SWTOR is evolving, so it will likely evolve again somewhere down the road assuming our players haven't turned to fossils in the old system and can no longer adapt to a changing environment.

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