What is the main intent of the skill rework? We need to know this.

[stockmks]

I think the answer to this will make all the difference.

 

If it is really just bioware just resetting the system so they can reduce the amount of balancing work and surprise hybrids that's probably okay.

 

If the intent is also, or even more than just a side effect, to make the game more accessible as wow did, we're screwed, as wow is.

 

I'm not going to be watching the livestream (not in the states) so would be great if someone could call them up on this. What is the impact to the gameplay and rotations? If any? Its completely true that putting numbers into talents doesn't do anything apart from making you "feel good" (which i kinda like) but i can appreciate removing this gameplay system if hybrids need to be simplified on their end. Actually i can feel for players because i did play a hybrid spec in wow and remember being quite upset when this was pulled on me back in the day.

 

If the changes however promote the same output for whatever class role with less thinking and complexity of button pushes then i'm /ragequit. Wow did this, and.. geez leave the office and go actually play some games bioware. swtor is awesome compared to cata+panda wow. It would be insanity to seek this intent.

Edited October 7, 2014 by stockmks

[Morrolan]

I think the answer to this will make all the difference.

 

If it is really just bioware just resetting the system so they can reduce the amount of balancing work and surprise hybrids that's probably okay.

 

With 5 extra levels under the current system clearly hybrids were going to become a full blown problem, being able to max 1 tree and have a significant number of points in a second tree, so they had to do something.

[pquadro]

To dumb everything down style Diablo 3

 

Look it up

[Muljo_Stpho]

If it is really just bioware just resetting the system so they can reduce the amount of balancing work and surprise hybrids that's probably okay.

 

On this point, I have to wonder if this easier general concept view of things might at least make it possible for them to consider expanding to many more disciplines than those named after the original skill trees. Somewhere down the line maybe they add 1 or 2 new disciplines to the list for each advanced class (perhaps 1 new one shared by the overall class and 1 new one exclusive to the advanced class). These could acknowledge some of the hybrids in use by some players now with some of these new disciplines and expand the classes into completely new play styles with other new disciplines. And all the balance work for adding so many new discipline paths is kept much simpler than it would be to add new trees with the current system.

[KTap]

To dumb everything down style Diablo 3

 

Look it up

 

Everyone already uses the same skills/rotations... what are you talking about exactly?

 

@ OP - http://dulfy.net/2014/10/06/swtor-developer-update-introduction-to-disciplines/

[Dawginole]

Obviously it was done in place of new content for us

[JediMasterSLC]

With 5 extra levels under the current system clearly hybrids were going to become a full blown problem, being able to max 1 tree and have a significant number of points in a second tree, so they had to do something.

 

Tying talents to stances is hard. This was totally unnecessary with respect to preventing hybrids.

[Rykko]

In order to combat hybrids at end game you would have to move all the good stuff further up the skill trees.

 

That means gimping specs for people in early levelling making for dull rotations.

 

Even now 45 is very late to be maxing a tree but imagine if that became lvl 50 just to stop hybrids.

 

If you have to pick a discipline that automatically prevents you from mixing the good stuff from 2 trees at end game.

[Marb]

I think the answer to this will make all the difference.

 

If it is really just bioware just resetting the system so they can reduce the amount of balancing work and surprise hybrids that's probably okay.

 

If the intent is also, or even more than just a side effect, to make the game more accessible as wow did, we're screwed, as wow is.

 

I'm not going to be watching the livestream (not in the states) so would be great if someone could call them up on this. What is the impact to the gameplay and rotations? If any? Its completely true that putting numbers into talents doesn't do anything apart from making you "feel good" (which i kinda like) but i can appreciate removing this gameplay system if hybrids need to be simplified on their end. Actually i can feel for players because i did play a hybrid spec in wow and remember being quite upset when this was pulled on me back in the day.

 

If the changes however promote the same output for whatever class role with less thinking and complexity of button pushes then i'm /ragequit. Wow did this, and.. geez leave the office and go actually play some games bioware. swtor is awesome compared to cata+panda wow. It would be insanity to seek this intent.

 

How does the current skill tree system present players with meaningful choices? Other than unintended hybrid builds, most classes only get to choose where they put a few scant points if their lucky.

 

WoW moved to a similar system but they made the mistake of tying dps skills to talent tiers, creating the same cookie-cutter spec issue that they set out to rectify by moving away from a talent tree system. As long as the swtor combat team stick to their guns and restrict the available choices in the discipline system to utility, this system will probably provide more true choices to players than the current skill tree system does.

 

To dumb everything down style Diablo 3

 

Look it up

 

Presenting uninformed players with the choice to break their character isn't a meaningful choice, and has little value for experienced players as well. I'm eager to hear how the current skill tree system provides you more true choices than the proposed discipline system could potentially offer.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Marb

[Cawyden]

From what I understand the new system gives the player more choices and that is normally a good thing. And how often people were/are asking about changing the chosen skill tree?

[Avatarless]

The original talent skills were a carbon copy of WoW back when it had talent trees.

 

Now that WoW has reworked their system, SWtoR is simply following what they've done. It will just be the same as what WoW currently has, which is a simplified talent system.

[Drake_Hound]

How does the current skill tree system present players with meaningful choices? Other than unintended hybrid builds, most classes only get to choose where they put a few scant points if their lucky.

 

WoW moved to a similar system but they made the mistake of tying dps skills to talent tiers, creating the same cookie-cutter spec issue that they set out to rectify by moving away from a talent tree system. As long as the swtor combat team stick to their guns and restrict the available choices in the discipline system to utility, this system will probably provide more true choices to players than the current skill tree system does.

 

It will not do that, like said before they are taking the lazy way out of balancing.

While I can sympathise with them, but part of raising levelup with this system was that you had to be prepared for strange combinations, that was kept people enticed and looking forward to level cap raise.

And how they would rework the trees to combat it.

 

With the new system means people understand they can raise the level cap indefinetly!

This alone turns a interesting dillema for both players and developers, into a hamster wheel just for the players.

Sorry untill we see some not covered screenshots of talents and utility,

I really feel a storm is brewing and it ain't a postive storm sadly for both the community and developers.

 

So drop the pretense of freedom is one thing, but rubbing into people faces they don't really have a choice is a another. I guess in a strange fitting way, seems always RL comes to haunt escapisme,

 

Now my predictions are already said, and let see if DEV are bold enough to do the other thing and have a internal discussion about the change. Cause it will affect the silent majority these change like it happened in wow.

Not the vocal majority on the forum, those people just fade away without protest or even bother to say goodbye.

[Brittaany_Banks]

We'll have to take a wait and see approach to this. But the INSTANT I read about this...for any of you familiar with Star Wars Galaxies this sounds exactly like an NGEing of the class system. We'll see though.

[Karkais]

Presenting uninformed players with the choice to break their character isn't a meaningful choice, and has little value for experienced players as well.

I would say that kind of thing precisely makes choices meaningful. If choices didn't have any effect, how would they be meaningful?

 

Overall, I worry about this change a LOT. If for nothing else it presents me with one of my most hated things if I return after a hiatus to play MMO: reset talents. I come back for a little bit of easy fun, but not being able to do anything at all until I have gone through all the changes and figured out what the new talents gonna be in excruciating detail. Now they are going to do that to all of my 6 characters all at once. GRRRRR

 

This games issues are NOT in the skill/talent system. They haven't introduced anything at all yet and I'm mad already. Even at a conceptual level I fail to see what good can come out of this.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Karkais

[Karkais]

The main intent is that the players were not using builds that the devs wanted them to use, so devs took away that option. Edited October 7, 2014 by Karkais

[Marb]

I would say that kind of thing precisely makes choices meaningful. If choices didn't have any effect, how would they be meaningful?

 

Overall, I worry about this change a LOT. If for nothing else it presents me with one of my most hated things if I return after a hiatus to play MMO: reset talents. I come back for a little bit of easy fun, but not being able to do anything at all until I have gone through all the changes and figured out what the new talents gonna be in excruciating detail. Now they are going to do that to all of my 6 characters all at once. GRRRRR

 

This games issues are NOT in the skill/talent system. They haven't introduced anything at all yet and I'm mad already. Even at a conceptual level I fail to see what good can come out of this.

 

Welcome to MMO's. Under the proposed discipline system, all abilities that are key to a specs playstyle are granted to you automatically. You don't have to relearn anything. The only difference will be choosing utility for your chosen discipline, which is much broader under the new system. The example in the dev blog was an engineering sniper being able to spec for utility that was previously locked away from them under the old skill tree system.

 

The current tree system does not provide you with choices. If you are 55 you should have speced into a single tree enough to have a capstone skill, and if you have "chosen" not to, you have an ineffective character. The devs have continually stated that they don't consider hybrids as intended, and have made moves to funnel options away from other trees by binding certain skills to stances.

 

Tying talents to stances is hard. This was totally unnecessary with respect to preventing hybrids.

 

I don't see how continuing down this road of taking choices away from players is preferable.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Marb

[Karkais]

 

The current tree system does not provide you with choices.

 

Please do not post blatantly false information.

[Marb]

Please do not post blatantly false information.

 

Did you read the rest of my post?

 

Best case scenario, you have have 2-3 genuine choices under the skill tree system without breaking your character build. The discipline system as proposed is meant to give us more choices, not less.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Marb

[TrigPt]

They're doing it to have more control over the build players have to make it easier for them to balance the game in the future. This will also allow them to raise level cap easier in future.

 

I suppose one benefit down the road is that a lot of the development resources for this expansion was probably spent on the new system. So now that work is done the 4.0 expansion should either arrive sooner or have more playable content.

[Aries_cz]

Its most obvious function is to eliminate hybrids, which are next to impossible to balance without screwing over the main tree.

Another function is to give players possibly a bit more utility choices (via the utility points, hint, hint), we will have to see it working before saying anything.

Another function seems to allow players to get their core or "cool" abilities sooner.

Yet another function seems to allow people to modify their utilities on the fly, without needing to fully reset the tree (Field respec and respec will probably remain to switch between Disciplines)

 

Let's face it people, there were not that many ways to select your skills to achieve a result you wanted. This system does not really take away the ability, it adds to it (from what we can tell from the little info we have)

[Reno_Tarshil]

The intent is to streamline the skill trees.

 

This is a good change.

[Drake_Hound]

Its most obvious function is to eliminate hybrids, which are next to impossible to balance without screwing over the main tree.

Another function is to give players possibly a bit more utility choices (via the utility points, hint, hint), we will have to see it working before saying anything.

Another function seems to allow players to get their core or "cool" abilities sooner.

Yet another function seems to allow people to modify their utilities on the fly, without needing to fully reset the tree (Field respec and respec will probably remain to switch between Disciplines)

 

Let's face it people, there were not that many ways to select your skills to achieve a result you wanted. This system does not really take away the ability, it adds to it (from what we can tell from the little info we have)

 

And again you tell others not to jump gun, but you do exactly the same,

Sadly my analysis is that it is exactly the same story WoW gave to people about the new system.

But atleast they were honest and targettting the newer generation, the youth!

Sadly youth do not stick around long enough to run years of guilds etc and ruin there lives to settle dispute, especially if they are reaching a different stage in life

 

Well swtor is honest about one thing it is easier to balance the new system and ad levels.

So the carrot got replaced by a hamster wheel, part of the old system is how are they going to balance the 5 more level increase and what OP combo can we find before they nerf it.

Now it is like we can nerf everything on the fly! Or replace OP build right away.

I understand it from DEV point of view, but the price is too high if done wrong. Especially with this current community.

[Lotharofxev]

From what I understand the new system gives the player more choices

 

Yes, because going from three distinct talent trees to one with "branches" equates to "more choices".

 

/facepalm

[GRINnBARRETT]

I'm less concerned with the WHY & more concerned with the WHAT. All the dumbing-down jargon and bravado is over-hype in my opinion. I don't care if it allows a less talented person to compete at the same level as me. I'm here to have fun in my own little community of gamer friends, not set out to find who is the best of the best of the best button pusher.

[Aries_cz]

I do not jump the gun, Drake, I merely state what is written in the DevBlog, and make some extrapolations from it, based on many BW standpoints on hybrids.