Kaggath Battlegrounds Heats - Galactic Alliance vs Phantom Hegemony

[Wolfninjajedi]

I just read it as well and that actually gives it more ammunition for the defection theory. Shale and his storm commandos turned against Vader after many, MANY disagreements in how to go about the entire operation. They were disgusted with his lack of concern for life as well as the fact there was proof that the one they had come to retrieve, had betrayed the Empire.

 

In essence, Lumiya will make many decisions similar to what Vader did, which could cause them to question her word saying that Pellaeon is a traitor. Not quite as stone cold these Storm Commandos as you said they were, after reading that page.

 

Shale was the only one questioning the orders really, it wasn't the Commando group. Although what says Lumiya and Vader are the same when it comes to operations?

Edited October 15, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

Scraps of non-autonomous metal. They mean nothing. Again no Storm Commando will be so sentimental as to be repulsed by an inanimate object, which has no mind of its own, and can't be affiliated with sentient ideals.

 

^This, did we forget that the Empire used Separatist droids for training purposes and study?

[Beniboybling]

I just read it as well and that actually gives it more ammunition for the defection theory. Shale and his storm commandos turned against Vader after many, MANY disagreements in how to go about the entire operation. They were disgusted with his lack of concern for life as well as the fact there was proof that the one they had come to retrieve, had betrayed the Empire.

 

In essence, Lumiya will make many decisions similar to what Vader did, which could cause them to question her word saying that Pellaeon is a traitor. Not quite as stone cold these Storm Commandos as you said they were, after reading that page.

Can't any evidence that the storm commandos gave a damn. Nor do I see any possibilities of Imperial casualties considering the Hegemony's force is mostly droids. Nor is Lumiya anywhere near as reckless as Vader. Edited October 15, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Silenceo]

^This, did we forget that the Empire used Separatist droids for training purposes and study?

 

I do not see warfare on that list...

 

Imperials had their own droids, why would they make use of CIS droids for actual warfare? Very few reasons, and among that list is treachery when other Imperials would not follow...

 

Side Note: If you guys wish to go to another topic, merely start it. I started this one only because it was related to another comment.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Silenceo

[Aurbere]

I do not see warfare on that list...

 

Imperials had their own droids, why would they make use of CIS droids for actual warfare? Very few reasons, and among that list is treachery when other Imperials would not follow...

 

The fact is that droids are machines programmed for a specific purpose. These droids the Hegemony use are programmed to serve the Hegemony. They are not enemies and have no personal feelings of their own. There is no reason for the Storm Commandos to refuse working with them. Nor would they even think of defecting to the side that has allied itself with rebels- traitors to the Empire.

[karadron]

^This, did we forget that the Empire used Separatist droids for training purposes and study?

 

So then that gives the 501st an advantage considering they would have trained against the models in the PH's faction

[Beniboybling]

Alright, lets start us off then.

 

There are three ways to defeat your enemy. The first, and most obvious, is to better him in a trial of force. The best way is to have him destroy himself; few enemies are so obliging. The middle way is to destroy your enemy from within. Judicious application of the middle way shall make your blows more effective if you later take the way of force. From the middle way it is also possible to push your enemy onto the path of self-destruction.

 

These are the defining principles of the Hegemony’s offensive.

 

A powerful siege unit comprised of battle droids and tanks will engage the enemy head on, but will only serve as a distraction, a diversion for a larger game that will destroy the enemy from within, weakening their vitality through whatever means necessary. Be it by sabotage, by turning them against one another, gathering vital information for the frontal assault, or, quite possibly, through the power of Lumiya’s illusions, causing her opponent to destroy themselves, and it is this shadow war that will be what brings the Phantom Hegemony’s enemies to their knees.

 

To begin I want to highlight the capabilities of Lumiya, who as a relatively 'minor' character I don't want to be underestimated. So I've made a mini-respect thread by sourcing information from Wookieepedia.

 

Lumiya, Dark Lady of the Sith

 

Personality and Traits

Cool, calm and collected

 

Cold and merciless, she brooked neither argument nor disobedience, and repaid both with torture, sometimes death.

 

...

 

She became more of a pragmatist in her later years and forsook previous obsessions with revenge – or put them on hold – for the greater Sith purpose.

 

A cunning manipulator

 

She readily exploited the weak-minded and blindly determined with subtle manipulations, Force assisted and otherwise. Deception was practiced as a matter of course, and she frequently capitalised on the misconceptions of her enemies. Secretive, purposely vague, and elusive, the specifics of her plans were seldom shared with anyone, and she was quick to change allegiances when it suited her purposes.

 

Capable and effective at acting alone

 

While she staunchly adhered to the stipulations of the Rule of Two, Lumiya preferred to work alone, often in a hands-on capacity to ensure the successful execution of her goals. Although she briefly entertained the idea of an entire order of Sith in opposition of the Jedi, she ultimately rejected that notion for the doctrine of her predecessors – patience, cunning, and secrecy – a point she stressed with the last of her own apprentices.

 

A master strategist and plotter

 

Lumiya was a master strategist who felt that the reward was well worth a properly-assessed risk. She learned to develop well-laid, multifaceted plans, courtesy of Emperor Palpatine, complete with hidden levels of treachery interwoven into each later, and only revealed herself upon the execution of such schemes...

 

...Such were her designs that victory for her was a guarantee, even if she suffered a loss in the process.

Equipment

Armed with a weapon few can overcome

 

While knowledgeable of lightsabers, Lumiya did not wield one; she instead preferred a custom-made lightwhip, one that she utilized with lethal efficiency and that was often more than a match of potential opponents. Indeed, she fought on equal and sometimes superior ground with Jedi Grand Master Luke Skywalker, widely considered the greatest living swordsman in the galaxy. Those unfamiliar with her whip were immediately confounded, while some premeditated strategy in preparation with Lumiya. Others recognised their own inferiority and abandoned the idea entirely...

 

...Lumiya’s lightwhip had a five meter attack radius, but she was able to shorten the lengths of the tendrils in combat when more precise control over a shorter area was required.

 

Skilled with many other forms of weaponry

 

Shira Brie learned to handle a number of weapons as a student of the Caridan Military Academy. She has extensive knowledge and experience with ranged energy blasters, throwing weapons, and projectiles armaments...

 

Benefits from extensive cybernetic enhancements

 

The accident that left Lumiya terribly scarred required the fitting of extensive prostheses and additional engineering that increased her strength, stamina, and pain threshold...

 

...and enhanced metabolism and healing capabilities. To prove the extent of her prosthesis on one occasion, Lumiya went as far as to plunge a vibroblades to the hilt into her cybernetic thigh without the slightest quiver of pain...

 

...The improved durasteel armour she received just prior to the Nagai-Tof conflict no longer included integrated blasters, but was impervious to vibroweapons and caused especially serious injury when an organic being connected with a physical attack.

Powers and Abilities

Has undergone elite military training

 

As a cadet of the Imperial Military Academy of Carida, Brie partook in the extremely aggressive stormtrooper training regimen, where her presence of mind and top-notch survival skills allowed her to excel. She became proficient in not only armed combat but also in forms of hand-to-hand fighting, including Echani and Noghri Stava...

 

...A woman with natural talent for astrogation, Shira Brie spent countless hours in combat simulation to sharpen her piloting skills. Perseverance paid off, and Brie graduated as the top student of the Coruscanti Pilots Institute...

 

A top intelligence agent and master infiltrator

 

Shira Brie was trained as an espionage agent of the highest calibre at the Intelligence Academy of Carida. She was hand-selected by Darth Vader to serve as his personal Rebel Alliance infiltrator, a job which she performed impeccably. She gave no hint of her true allegiance, and members of the highest tiers of the Alliance hierarchy had not the slightest clue of Major Brie’s duplicity, even as she dwelt regularly amongst them...

 

...Her spy training granted her the ability to adapt to all environments and any situation, and allowed her to hide anywhere, and indefinitely...

 

...Between employed agents, assumed identities, and Force illusions, Lumiya was able to infiltrate various buildings, residences, and organisations with its members none the wiser.

 

Skilled in overt as well as covert assaults

 

In the wake of the Imperial defeat at Endor, Lumiya assumed direct control of a modest fleet of warships as she began to consolidate her resources, but eventually abandoned her considerable firepower and adopted more subtle methods of malice where brute force no longer availed. Poisons, explosive-rigged datapads, meter-long durasteel darts, vibroweapons, and lethal traps were all within her arsenal.

 

Strong and talented in the Force

 

Shira Brie was naturally strong in the Force, but her initial dark side training consisted of rudimentary Force applications...

 

...Upon her transformation into Lumiya, Brie’s already advanced training reached new plateaus by way of Sith wisdom bestowed upon her by Darth Vader.

 

...A wealth of Sith knowledge by way of ancient texts, holocrons, and other artefacts was at her disposal, including the Sith oracle stone and King Adas’ holocrons, the oldest such device. Among her other skills were farsight, various Force deflection applications, mental and emotional manipulation, focused resolve augmentation, and the ability to emanate waves of pure hatred...

 

...She entered into a hibernation trance following the battle during which she was maimed and was thus able to survive until the rescue was effected.

 

A master of Force illusions

 

...Lumiya’s most prominent talent, however, lay in the creation of illusions of all kind: visual enhancements of one’s appearance when viewed through reflective surfaces; concealment of her own appearance, and the reverse; dazzling alterations of reality; doppelgangers whose sustained damage was inflicted instead upon the perpetrator; phantasms born purely of the dark side...

[Warren-Stride]

I'm not necessarily advocating that any of the GA troops defect. That's not the point of my argument.

 

My point is, there is a schism within the GA. Empire and Republic don't mix. Don't get me wrong, they have before. But those were much different circumstances. That was after the Vong and many wars and conflicts. If you try to combine Rebellion Era Empire and Rebellion, it's not going to work.

 

The 501st executed the Jedi at the Temple in Order 66. They enslaved the Wookiee people. They assassinated figures of power that opposed Imperial policies and ideologies, such as Queen Apailana of Naboo. They were the Fist of the most feared and hated man in the galaxy. They were stationed on the Death Star, which was responsible for the destruction of Alderaan and millions of lives.

 

Why is this an issue? Well, Pelleaon has been around long enough to see cooperation between Empire and Republic through exceptional circumstances. But Tholme, Garm Bel Iblis, Yutrane-Trackata, and the Rebel SpecForce Troopers haven't. They only remember the times, heck, they've experienced personally the times when the Empire was horrible and cruel and cut-throat.

 

How would it feel to fight alongside someone who is responsible for the deaths of thousands of the people you've risked your own life trying to protect? How would it feel to fight alongside your worst enemy? Literally the foil character to your very being. You would have to worry about backstabbing, resentment, orders that conflict with your morals. What happens if you're injured? Will your worst enemies help you? Would you help your worst enemy or let them die as payback for their opposition to your mindset?

 

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that the morale of the GA is going to be very low. The atmosphere will be tense, and the only way to somewhat resolve that issue is by separating the ground forces completely. Which is ironic, considering that it's supposed to be an Alliance. But the 501st will be less effective because they're confined in what they can do by Garn Bel Iblis's orders and the sentiments of the Rebellion troops, and the Rebellion troops are going to have to work around the starkly different combat style of the Imperials.

 

In not so many words: Rebellion-Era Rebels + Empire-Era Imperials: Internal Combustion

[Aurbere]

Side Note: If you guys wish to go to another topic, merely start it. I started this one only because it was related to another comment.

 

Yes, please.

[Aurbere]

So then that gives the 501st an advantage considering they would have trained against the models in the PH's faction

 

B2s weren't used for those purposes.

[tunewalker]

I do not see warfare on that list...

 

Imperials had their own droids, why would they make use of CIS droids for actual warfare? Very few reasons, and among that list is treachery when other Imperials would not follow...

 

Side Note: If you guys wish to go to another topic, merely start it. I started this one only because it was related to another comment.

 

Honestly that is still a poor arguement here, if you really wanted some ground in the arguement you would talk about using CIS LEADERSHIP..... but its still the same as the Empire....

 

 

Either way we just go to.

Star Wars history

 

Imperial Remnant

Splinter Factions of the Empire fighting one another, occassionally receiving aid from factions they would normally try to destroy.

 

 

GA Imperial Splinter group fighting the PH another Imperial Splinter group, GA recieves help from normally dislike Rebels, PH recieves help from Normally disliked CIS generals. Both splinter factions bent on taking others out.

 

No defection likely.

Edited October 15, 2014 by tunewalker

[tunewalker]

I'm not necessarily advocating that any of the GA troops defect. That's not the point of my argument.

 

My point is, there is a schism within the GA. Empire and Republic don't mix. Don't get me wrong, they have before. But those were much different circumstances. That was after the Vong and many wars and conflicts. If you try to combine Rebellion Era Empire and Rebellion, it's not going to work.

 

The 501st executed the Jedi at the Temple in Order 66. They enslaved the Wookiee people. They assassinated figures of power that opposed Imperial policies and ideologies, such as Queen Apailana of Naboo. They were the Fist of the most feared and hated man in the galaxy. They were stationed on the Death Star, which was responsible for the destruction of Alderaan and millions of lives.

 

Why is this an issue? Well, Pelleaon has been around long enough to see cooperation between Empire and Republic through exceptional circumstances. But Tholme, Garm Bel Iblis, Yutrane-Trackata, and the Rebel SpecForce Troopers haven't. They only remember the times, heck, they've experienced personally the times when the Empire was horrible and cruel and cut-throat.

 

How would it feel to fight alongside someone who is responsible for the deaths of thousands of the people you've risked your own life trying to protect? How would it feel to fight alongside your worst enemy? Literally the foil character to your very being. You would have to worry about backstabbing, resentment, orders that conflict with your morals. What happens if you're injured? Will your worst enemies help you? Would you help your worst enemy or let them die as payback for their opposition to your mindset?

 

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that the morale of the GA is going to be very low. The atmosphere will be tense, and the only way to somewhat resolve that issue is by separating the ground forces completely. Which is ironic, considering that it's supposed to be an Alliance. But the 501st will be less effective because they're confined in what they can do by Garn Bel Iblis's orders and the sentiments of the Rebellion troops, and the Rebellion troops are going to have to work around the starkly different combat style of the Imperials.

 

In not so many words: Rebellion-Era Rebels + Empire-Era Imperials: Internal Combustion

 

Garm Bel was there for the Vong war, he saw Rebel and Emperial working.

[Aurbere]

If you would kindly follow Beni's lead and move on from defection arguments. I don't see any happening here. Not that there haven't been interesting points. Edited October 15, 2014 by Aurbere

[Beniboybling]

In not so many words: Rebellion-Era Rebels + Empire-Era Imperials: Internal Combustion

I think I'm gonna to build on this, because it fits with the Hegemony's strategy to destroy the enemy from within.

 

And its not a defection argument.

 

Essentially, they can fan the flames of animosity and dissent. Lumiya doesn't need to convince her enemy to align with her, all she has to do is cause them to fight amongst each other, and then wipe them out.

 

How might they achieve this? Imperial Intelligence. Implant double agents into the Alliance's ranks, and have them begin disseminating false information revealing that say, Gilad plans on betraying and eliminating his rebel allies once this conflict is over. And vice versa spread lies that Iblis plains to overthrow Gilad and oust the 501st. Many will believe.

 

Intelligence has two arms that can be dedicated towards this, the infiltration arm most obviously, but also an arm called DeStab who specialise in "unraveling the fabric of society", most notably they initiated something called The Calamari Project, which aimed to spark a civil war between the Mon Calamari and the Quarren, sound familiar no?

[Wolfninjajedi]

B2s weren't used for those purposes.

 

They used B3s however, which were far more deadly and effective.

 

Also one other thing...but which 501st are we talking about here?

 

Clone Wars era?

 

Rise of the Empire/GCW era?

 

Post- ROTJ era?

 

Which? There were many different incarnations of the 501st.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

They used B3s however, which were far more deadly and effective.

 

Also one other thing...but which 501st are we talking about here?

 

Clone Wars era?

 

Rise of the Empire/GCW era?

 

Post- ROTJ era?

 

Which? There were many different incarnations of the 501st.

 

To be fair, there isn't much you need to know about a B2 to take it out. So experience there doesn't really matter.

 

I'm assuming the Stormtroopers are from the GCW era. That would be something for Karadron to decide as they are his unit.

[tunewalker]

To be fair, there isn't much you need to know about a B2 to take it out. So experience there doesn't really matter.

 

I'm assuming the Stormtroopers are from the GCW era. That would be something for Karadron to decide as they are his unit.

 

I would assume they were from Galactic Alliance era..... you know after the Vong, since they would have the proper loyalties.

 

 

Edit: to throw an argument beni's way since I havent put anything forth for him for most of this (other then his troops arent defecting) Palleon is a squishy human thing with no force powers... Lumiya (the other leader) is a well trained Force assassin by trade..... ya that might have an effect on this stuff.

Edited October 16, 2014 by tunewalker

[Aurbere]

I would assume they were from Galactic Alliance era..... you know after the Vong, since they would have the proper loyalties.

 

 

Edit: to throw an argument beni's way since I havent put anything forth for him for most of this (other then his troops arent defecting) Palleon is a squishy human thing with no force powers... Lumiya (the other leader) is a well trained Force assassin by trade..... ya that might have an effect on this stuff.

 

I'll make that a thing, then.

 

Good point.

 

OK, we've seen something of an opening argument from Beni, so I would like to see something from Karadron if he can.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Ok so then....the 501st would be a mix of different species, non-humans and humans.

[Aurbere]

Ok so then....the 501st would be a mix of different species, non-humans and humans.

 

How good would this incarnation of the 501st be?

[Wolfninjajedi]

How good would this incarnation of the 501st be?

 

I...have no clue, especially considering it would be a mix of different species, so would be hard to gauge as to what they all are.

 

Although considering the Imperial Academy of Carida was destroyed in 11 ABY, don't think they would be as good.

 

Prime wise I put the 501st during Clone Wars era, up to the end of the GCW and perhaps a little after that, before 11 ABY.

 

Tbh I think it would be more fitting to go with the GCW era, this way it's all human and we won't have to try and figure out different species and the like.

 

I would say or Clone Wars era, but since Kara has labeled Stormtroopers, GCW seems more fitting for that.

 

Speaking of Beni, what's next after all this?

Edited October 16, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Speaking of Beni, what's next after all this?

This is the last round of the heats, after that is the Semi-Finals, the matchups of which I will be announcing in advance.

 

There is also the possibility of a Runners-Up Bracket, if folks are interested.

[Aurbere]

This is the last round of the heats, after that is the Semi-Finals, the matchups of which I will be announcing in advance.

 

There is also the possibility of a Runners-Up Bracket, if folks are interested.

 

How exactly are the matches going to go? Because, IIRC, there are only five factions in each bracket.

[Aurbere]

I...have no clue, especially considering it would be a mix of different species, so would be hard to gauge as to what they all are.

 

Although considering the Imperial Academy of Carida was destroyed in 11 ABY, don't think they would be as good.

 

Prime wise I put the 501st during Clone Wars era, up to the end of the GCW and perhaps a little after that, before 11 ABY.

 

Tbh I think it would be more fitting to go with the GCW era, this way it's all human and we won't have to try and figure out different species and the like.

 

I would say or Clone Wars era, but since Kara has labeled Stormtroopers, GCW seems more fitting for that.

 

Speaking of Beni, what's next after all this?

 

I think Karadron should specify which era they are from. Personally, I would go with the later incarnations, because then you shouldn't have to worry about loyalties really.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I think Karadron should specify which era they are from. Personally, I would go with the later incarnations, because then you shouldn't have to worry about loyalties really.

 

Eh alright then, Karadron decides.