BYONN Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I cant wait to see whats in store with this new Discipline System. It looks very promising. For future Expansion Packs one thing that I would like to see above all else is the inclusion of Lightsaber Form Proficiencies including all styles of Lightsaber Combat and allow players a Maximum of 3 styles for their character. As a Sage myself I love the use of in depth Healing and Force Techniques but I also would like a little bit more emphasis on Lightsaber Combat for this particular Class as well as Sith Sorceror. I think Disciplines is a step in the right direction to make that dream a reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) What he's saying is that you weren't going to have your mixed build anyways. If you have 5 more skill points and Innervate requires 5 more skill points to get and Force In Balance requires 5 more points to get to, you have to sacrifice something to keep your build. Also seems unfair to say the top-tier points are wasted. Each Discipline gets a new ability at the top.... for example, a Corruption gets a multi-target Heal-on-damage-taken. Lightning gets a powerful short cast hit that increases your force regen. Madness gets a life-steal and an upgraded version of Crushing Darkness. Might be worth testing and trying before saying they are a waste. Additionally, and I mean no disrespect by it, your statement regarding top tier points being a problem indicates you need to do some more research on these Disciplines before you condemn them. I say this because it seems you are unaware that current top tier abilities are being moved into the mid-20's and the core identifying ability is given the moment you take your advanced class. Sorry, to be clear, under the current trees, I've found little compelling about the "tree-top" skills, which has been one of my motivations to avoid specializing (Arsenal on my Merc is a notable exception, I like that tree quite a bit, other than a couple of "filler" skills at the bottom, which ties into some of the other points that have been made). The "Inversion" of the order in which many of the skills are acquired in the new system does kill the simple initial idea of forgoing the top of one tree for the bottom of another, doesn't it? Would be completely broken to end up with two of the former "treetop" skills. Still seems to me that there has to be SOME way to allow for the equivalent of the current 50/50 builds. It seems to me that some part of the opposition to a finding a balanced way to incorporate that sort of thing into the new system is ideological / philosophical, and not really a matter of the practical. Edited October 14, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrionSol Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Your customers were not asking for this change Many of them don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Your customers were not asking for this change Many of them don't like it. Many is a guess. Honestly, you and Max are the two most vocal opponents... It is however a given that the player-base wants output balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) Many is a guess. Honestly, you and Max are the two most vocal opponents... It is however a given that the player-base wants output balance. I'm not opposed to output balance as a goal. Hell, if it's as unlike what was done to WoW as some insist, I'm not opposed in theory to the new system. At the core of the issue, what I'm opposed to is the wiping out a whole segment of existing character builds over what amounts to philosophical matters, catering to two smallish segments of the playerbase, and/or lack of effort or imagination to come up with a more inclusive solution. Edited October 15, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SammuelColdheart Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I give +1 for safe utility on your secondary gear, your secondary build, your quickbar slots and to switch easily between them for like 4-5 sec when you are out of combat... your energy will go down to 0 of course every time you do it and you will have to wait a bit until it regains, but I think this will be great... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pourekos Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Many is a guess. Honestly, you and Max are the two most vocal opponents... It is however a given that the player-base wants output balance. Just because more of us are not here posting all the time, it doesn't mean we are not deeply concerned and unhappy. I had exactly the same kind of circular arguments on the WoW forums when that change was announced with the proponents of the system giving the exact same arguments as here. In the end though a) it still went through and b) the results were as negative as predicted, ie dire balance, no wonderful variety in "meaningful" specs and bad players were still bad players even if you put their rotational abilities on their bars in numerical order and told them to roll their face on the keyboard. So apologies for having a very strong case of dejavu and not wanting to get through the same story all over again. All I will say is that just like in WoW, despite my better judgement, I will still give this system a spin. Unlike WoW though, I can and I will do it without paying and if I am not satisfied that will be the end of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdeezil Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 i really hope these changes dont result in us getting a user interface/quickbar like that in GW2. It sounds like it's going to with the whole "utility" thing. For those who havent played it, the user interface/quickbar setup in GW2 absolutely sucks, you only get 6 buttons with attacks and 4 for utility abilities, plus you cant change your utility abilities during combat so its like you have to figure out what abilities you wanna use before every fight because you dont have access to all your skills at anytime, like we have in swtor now. its the main reason i couldnt get into that gane and came back to swtor. while i agree a skill tree change is necessary and what the devs have so far sounds pretty promising, except for the whole "utitlity" thing. I hated that part of GW2 so much and if we wound up with a similar setup here it would ruin this game, for me at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenkidd Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I'm to going to knock it before i try it, but next time maybe try something noone will complain about..like more races/planets id love to have a jawa force user hinted at in the tat missions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LantzmanOmega Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 This update stifles creativity and locks the player into un-warranted constraints. Mix and match is dynamic . To constrain is ideological socialist in its philosophy. I have only played this game for 2 months and am 72 years on this blue marble. Played an ridiculous number of games from Pacman to this. I quit a lot of those because the developers sought balance, inadvertently psychologically bumped their favorite, and destroyed months of effort to be uber. They created rage or boredom ! Diversity is the hallmark of freedom, even in a game the human element is the changer else you get Wash-Rinse-Dry and repeat. B O R I N G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodamaxxxx Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Instead of making really cool things (such as new class stories, races, classes, pvp warzones, arenas etc.) Bioware spits me in the face with these...diciplines. They say that now players will have more choice, that people will not copy each others builds...thats preposterous! There always will be strong combinations of skills no matter how you will call `em - diciplines utilry points or smth else. The only thing that this new **** will do - it will make decelopers` job easier. But it will kill variety! They say it will give us flexibility but nothing could be far from the truth. I myself very like playing hybrid. Deception/Madness Darkness/Madness Darkness/Deception....I really enjoy making and testing new builds in pvp (mostly) and pve (sometimes). And this **** will ruin my joy completely. If it is sooo hard for developers to balance new skill trees - why even raise lvl cap? As a result - time wasted on senseless efforts which will bring nothing but boredom. Why not spend this time on something REALLY cool? I personally am in love with SWTOR class stories, but this expansion brings only 5 quests...and i know why only 5. Because time is wasted on making a useless thing. Still I cant wait until new story, but diciplines...0 Revans of 100. I dont have to see them because it is the same thing from WoW (that was added in Cataclysm), Its a f***ing Attack of the Clone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleneagle Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) I'm to going to knock it before i try it, but next time maybe try something noone will complain about..like more races/planets id love to have a jawa force user hinted at in the tat missionsSomething no one will complain about? Heh, like that will ever happen. Someone would complain loudly and bitterly about the dearth of complaint opportunities. Edited October 15, 2014 by Gleneagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncohioguy Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Why are people concerned about "skill level of players". The more people that can enjoy the game, the better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleneagle Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) Why are people concerned about "skill level of players". The more people that can enjoy the game, the betterVaries. In at least some cases it is because the player's evaluation of 'success' for some reason depends upon the cooperation of other player characters estimated to be sufficiently powerful. Being sufficiently powerful appears to be wholly focused on gearing and build rather than talent or skill. If you examine closely, 'skill' boils down to gear and build. These evaluations of 'success' arise either because they are themselves too weak, the challenge posed by the game is too great, or possibly because there is some measure of gratification/bolstered self-esteem derived from issuing commands and requirements of others and seeing those commands obeyed and requirements fulfilled. I think that covers the possibilities. In sum a game focused on consumerism, whether by design or by player preference, will focus on what you have rather than who you are. Edited October 15, 2014 by Gleneagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardsfanMLB Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I loved it when they got rid of skill trees in WoW, and I love it here. Man you ain't kidding I hated those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennimeistari Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) Star Wars inhabitants! To those that haven't checked out their twitch video showcasing the disciplines. Do it now! It's very informative and might shed some light and answer some of the questions that have been asked here. Trust me. I had some quarrels and irks about this thing but I'm starting to feel very positive about this whole thing. Take a look here if you're interested = http://www.twitch.tv/swtor/c/5252907 Edited October 15, 2014 by bennimeistari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belhawk Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 bw is getting rid of purge that removes conditions like stun, and forcing u to take the perk that reduces periodic damage reduction. He seemed very smug abt it to, u can choose not to take it but u r going to need it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsdiamond Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 What I would like to see is a preview screen to show stat changes when choosing a skill or discipline *before* committing to it; maybe something similar to gear changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwinnington Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Just so I understand, this isn't really going to effect my 55's in any way. I'll just have a broader span of abilities. Does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tito_O Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 What I would like to see is a preview screen to show stat changes when choosing a skill or discipline *before* committing to it; maybe something similar to gear changes. Why? I'd guess that most, if not (nearly) all of the players choose their discipline based on the playstyle and/or raid utility of said discipline and not because that tree gives them 2% more crit than the other. Just so I understand, this isn't really going to effect my 55's in any way. I'll just have a broader span of abilities. Does that make sense? Yes, that is absolutely correct. You still have the option to skill in the exact same way as you do now, or choose some other passive skills formerly only available to the other two speccs of your AC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverWF Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) I've heard they will remove Hidden Strike from Opers, also as +50% crit damage at Discharge and Shock from Sins Just wanna ask: ARE YOU CRAZY? Are you eaten wrong drugs again? *** WITH THAT STEALTHERS NERF? WHO IS YOUR MAIN DESIGNER? Not just fire him - kill him! :mad: Edited October 18, 2014 by SilverWF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleneagle Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Aside from the hyperbole, you "heard" from who? Wife's second cousin on her father's side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Aside from the hyperbole, you "heard" from who? Wife's second cousin on her father's side? Datamining obviously. And I thought they were making Backstab/Backblast doing Hidden Strike/Shoot First job when you open from stealth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBoba Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Information to date says backstab will work as hidden strike. Ops also lose explosive probe, it seems. One of the most interesting things to come out of the "potato rumours" is there is (I think) no sign of the 6/9% primary stat buff in the disciplines or utilities. For those complaining about removal of choice - that is a huge change because it opens up all the augment slots to more customisation and theory-crafting. You'll be far less likely to gimp yourself choosing anything other than pristat augments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverWF Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) And I thought they were making Backstab/Backblast doing Hidden Strike/Shoot First job when you open from stealth Yes, but BS still have cooldown! Does Maul (Sins analogue) have it? Lol, no! Also, did you seen Sins utility: total immune to any CC while Deflection active? Opers didn't have anything(!) similar: nor skill, nor utility! http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7742695&postcount=23 Here is the changes for 2nd tree Opers.Lol, this class will be: "healer or Go The F**k Out" Every, EVERY another class and spec got their own special COOL features, but not Opers! Even more: WE ARE LOST SOMETHING IMPORTANT! What we see now at the every WZ: tons of sorcs, sins, juggers and maras. If sometimes you see an Oper then in 90% cases he is healer. God, bioware have no any idea about what they are doing! Poor balancing skill even after 3 years of game maintenance. They looks like blinded man, trying to construct Eiffel Tower from LEGO: "Hey, I've done something! Is it it? - No, man, sorry, try harder." IOne of the most interesting things to come out of the "potato rumours" is there is (I think) no sign of the 6/9% primary stat buff in the disciplines or utilities. For those complaining about removal of choice - that is a huge change because it opens up all the augment slots to more customisation and theory-crafting. You'll be far less likely to gimp yourself choosing anything other than pristat augments. This is stupid change again. Main stat gives you Power and Crit - most important stats for any battle. As I've said before: they have no any idea... Edited October 19, 2014 by SilverWF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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