Please introduce dual spec ASAP

[Elgreezy]

You have dual-spec currently in game for a cost..what are you complaing about..

 

Respec=/=dual spec.

 

Well thats how Bioware implemented it, you'll just have to deal with it.

 

They've already announced they're introducing dual-spec, you'll just have to deal with it.

 

 

Because WOW and Rift had dual-specing a certain way doesn't mean SWTOR should.

 

Because WoW and Rift had is doesn't mean SWTOR shouldn't have it.

[ferroz]

You have dual-spec currently in game for a cost..what are you complaing about..the cost?

That seems pretty clear: people are unhappy with the scaling, use dependant cost. They'd much rather have a high, but one time unlimited use cost.

 

It's like paying for dial up internet usage by the minute or a flat fee... dual speccers prefer the latter. People who go rabid whenever someone mentions dual spec prefer the first.

Edited December 28, 2011 by ferroz

[Nautius]

Cloning!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2011 by Nautius

[Kunitsukami]

I really don't know why we are comparing a Western game (SWTOR) to an Eastern Game (WOW) anyways. Now before anyone objects remember who makes up 75% of the player base for WOW---> China & Korea now to me this sounds like an Eastern game. Now lets look at the upcoming expansion for said game. It includes Pandas and Kung-fu sure sounds like an Asian setting to me.

 

I don't think what just happened is what you think is what just happened.

[ferroz]

I really don't know why we are comparing a Western game (SWTOR) to an Eastern Game (WOW) anyways. Now before anyone objects remember who makes up 75% of the player base for WOW---> China & Korea now to me this sounds like an Eastern game. Now lets look at the upcoming expansion for said game. It includes Pandas and Kung-fu sure sounds like an Asian setting to me.

it's an american game that happens to sell in china and korea... it's not an eastern MMO by any stretch.

 

you can tell by which group gets the latest expansion at launch, and which one has to wait 6 months for it.

[Zarovich]

That's what I said....

 

so, why quote me, since I was only pointing out his incorrect statement?

 

So you still going on about this because I was incorrect by 20 days. Forrealdude 20 days, so your claim to fame on the internet is 20 days, be sure to let your grand kids know when they get older that their grand father won the internet because of 20 days, the difference between EQ2 and WOW launch.

[Durnazax]

As someone else pointed out, I am not intersted in playing CoD: Star Wars. No to dual specs. I played Rift, and I praised that game for that functionality. I prefer this game to stick to their mantra of having meaningful choices.

[Zarovich]

Respec=/=dual spec.

 

 

 

They've already announced they're introducing dual-spec, you'll just have to deal with it.

 

 

 

 

Because WoW and Rift had is doesn't mean SWTOR shouldn't have it.

 

Really your guaranteeing something that Bioware won't even do. So are you really Stephen Reid because if so you went from a maybe to guarantee in a short time frame.

[Kunitsukami]

it's an american game that happens to sell in china and korea... it's not an eastern MMO by any stretch.

 

you can tell by which group gets the latest expansion at launch, and which one has to wait 6 months for it.

Because it was developed in the US by an English speaking team in an English speaking country working on the servers for it's local environment before all others?

 

The majority of the player base is still based in the Eastern Continents though so it depends how you would subjectively or objectively qualify the game: by it's content makers or by its player base.

[Zarovich]

it's an american game that happens to sell in china and korea... it's not an eastern MMO by any stretch.

 

you can tell by which group gets the latest expansion at launch, and which one has to wait 6 months for it.

 

Its true Blizzard is an American company but its target audience is the Eastern region. Starcraft and WOW are huge over there and not to bad here.

[Grimwyrm]

/signed.

 

Please add it as soon as possible!

[Bekkal]

Because it was developed in the US by an English speaking team in an English speaking country working on the servers for it's local environment before all others?

 

The majority of the player base is still based in the Eastern Continents though so it depends how you would subjectively or objectively qualify the game: by it's content makers or by its player base.

 

No. Eastern and Western MMOs typically vary in several core principles. Educate yourself a bit. They have nothing to do with playerbase.

[ferroz]

So you still going on about this because I was incorrect by 20 days.

I made one, now 2, posts about it. That's hardly going on about it.

 

I did respond to some people asking why they were arguing with me regarding stuff I didn't say... but that's kind of a different issue.

 

Forrealdude 20 days, so your claim to fame on the internet is 20 days, be sure to let your grand kids know when they get older that their grand father won the internet because of 20 days, the difference between EQ2 and WOW launch.

3/6 isn't more than half either... for "more than half" you'd need 4/6... so it's a bit more than 20 days. Edited December 28, 2011 by ferroz

[SilverScreemer]

Ok, I've been reading this topic, and while I've not read it all, I did get up to page 28.

 

The people arguing against Dual Spec, are using nothing but logical fallacies.

 

Seriously, let me think of a few reasons.

 

1. Slippery Slope - If we do this, we may as well do all this other crap too!

 

2. Argument from absurdity - Sort of goes with slippery slope, but a bit nuttier. "May as well just let people mash buttons on the keyboard to get prized EZ Mode WoW babies!"

 

3. Elitist Snobs - And don't get me wrong, I tent to be one myself. I'm a healer, and a kick *** one at that. There are people that can play as a healer from 1 - 50 that will NEVER be as good as me. And there are people that can level DPS, then pay to respec at 50, and be better than me. Equating skill with sacrifice is just stupid.

 

4. The "Ninja Looters for offspec" argument - I wasn't aware Operative Healers had significantly different gear than Operative uh, the other two. The poison and stealth melee classes. I'm still going for that awesome knife with cunning. And guess what, if there's a main spec Poison Operative, I sure as hell am not going to roll need on his + to poison knife. In THIS game, what gear specifically is for one spec and not another? As an Operative, I don't think there's a single bit of gear that isn't basically universal. And if the gear isn't my best in slot, and IS someone elses best in slot, AND he is there and wants it, it's his. As long as they attribute me the same respect.

 

5. The "You won't have any skill" argument - I touched on this before, basically it says that if you don't JUST heal, you won't know how to heal at all. The game isn't that hard. Maybe it is to you, but I can handle it. Guess what, I'm playing a Warrior and an Agent, does that mean I suck at both of them because I'm dividing my time between them? Alts ruin this argument.

 

 

My reason for wanting dual specs is simple, I want it because it will piss you guys off. I want The Old Republic to be ruined forever. I want the game to be ruined by the auction house getting fixed too. I laughed with glee as they ruined the game by fixing the bug with the gathering nodes last patch. It thrilled me to know how much that must have pissed all you purists off!

 

To say that the game is, in it's current form, how Bioware "intends" it to be is stupid. They have extremely long term plans and have to stagger their work. They had a deadline pushed on them, they HAD to have it out before Christmas. MMO's are never done.

 

 

So really, I'm playing as a healer and to be honest, it's sort of boring. I really want to try the other 2 specs. But I don't want to rack up huge bills to do it. My Warrior too. I went Juggernaut. I would like to try a more DPS tree at some point, and be able to switch back to tank mode when needed. Playing as DPS for a little while won't make me a "terrible bad tank". I've already got the rotations down, and yes I know it's going to get complicated as hell. I'm not looking forward to that to be honest.

 

But really, the majority of the complaints are "No! you need to spend 400 hours building a character that's virtually identical!". Let's be real, if I make another Agent, it'll be a sniper. But I'm probably just going to make a Gunslinger on the Republic side and call it a day.

 

I know how draining it can be to have too many mains. You can either have one elite guy, or a lot of sub par ones. No one in their right mind would make two elite quality Operatives. It's a ridiculous proposition, especially with only 8 character slots per server.

 

Some other changes I want to bring up.

 

Auto loot. You autoloot BOP items. this needs to be fixed immediately. There also needs to be some sort of trade window. I know nothing will make Ninja's give back loot they don't want to give back, but if you accidentally end up with something that should have gone to someone else (Maybe the loot guy clicked the wrong name? Or you accidentally auto-looted it, Or your friend accidentally needed it, the reasons go on and on) You need to have a window to fix this, and make sure the loot gets to its proper owner. The "casual" WoW has an hour window to sort things out. That sounds good to me.

 

The hotbars need fixing. In Wow, I had 24 along the bottom, 12 above it, 2 vertical bars along the right side, and a smaller one on the right side for little things. Yeah, 6 hotbars, all different sizes and put where I want them. Everything else I want minimal.

 

Oh also, treat companions as existing in the Operations bar. I don't like seeing JUST the two names, sometimes I want to heal my partners companion.

 

What was I talking about? Oh yeah, dual spec. If you don't want it you're a selfish sociopath. You don't have to use it. You don't have to tolerate terrible players, period. If you get a part time healer that isn't up to snuff, tell him you'll see him later. Guild trying to make you heal? Tough cookies, tell them you are DPS and that's that. They'll say "ok" and move on. There will only be 2 dedicated DPS classes in the game, the rest can either tank or heal. So odds are some one will be willing to make the sacrifice you weren't willing to make. Someone who would rather be DPSing will be healing you because he or she is a better person than you. Ok I'm kidding, you'll likely have a dedicated healer. But if you want to be a hero and heal so your guild doesn't have to sit the night out if your healer can't make it, you'll be able to!

 

So yeah, as it's been said, there are no valid arguments.

 

The best one you have is that someone may DPS too much and not learn to Tank or Heal. That's actually wrong in all likely hood.

 

See without dual spec, they would likely 1-50 all DPS, then switch to healing if they so desired when it was time to raid.

 

With dual spec, they can DPS most of the time, but heal in instances. And that's all that matters. Newsflash, you don't learn much casting heal on your companion. Sure you learn a bit, but healing instances is what matters, and people will heal instances that they otherwise would have just DPSd in. Why wouldn't they? They get faster groups, to access the sweet loot, that they can use to DPS in when soloing. Or healing a bit soloing to change it up. Same goes with tanking. Hell I would say Tanks are MORE likely to switch things up. If I had dual spec on my tank I would probably switch back and forth often just for variety. Favoring DPS for the trash mobs, and the Tanking for the tougher stuff perhaps?

 

So yeah, I win. Dual spec should be in now. And so should the ability to trade loot for a small period of time in instances, and no autolooting BOP stuff.

 

Among other things...

Edited December 28, 2011 by SilverScreemer

[Elgreezy]

Really your guaranteeing something that Bioware won't even do. So are you really Stephen Reid because if so you went from a maybe to guarantee in a short time frame.

 

You can continue to stick your head in the sand all you'd like. It's pretty clear from the link I posted earlier that this is something they are introducing and soon.

 

The good news is it won't change a thing for you! If you want to commit to one spec and one spec only you can still do that! Awesome, right? The difference is you won't be able to dictate how I choose to play the game.

[Kunitsukami]

No. Eastern and Western MMOs typically vary in several core principles. Educate yourself a bit. They have nothing to do with playerbase.

 

That was my point.... I was saying that people have subjective views of what is an Eastern or Western MMO and it doesn't matter..... so.... You educate yourself a bit maybe? I don't know, I am a bit confused by straw manning in general.

[Psykhe]

I really don't know why we are comparing a Western game (SWTOR) to an Eastern Game (WOW) anyways. Now before anyone objects remember who makes up 75% of the player base for WOW---> China & Korea now to me this sounds like an Eastern game. Now lets look at the upcoming expansion for said game. It includes Pandas and Kung-fu sure sounds like an Asian setting to me.

 

Quoting this just to laugh at you.

 

Keep going, you are killing your own credability just fine.

[Tamas]

/signed

 

RIFT had a great Soul system that was THE best part of the game. It offered freedom and a chance to experiment, plus an ability to easily switch to help out - I'd like to heal, but I love to DPS as well - it's my problem to get gear for both and my problem to learn the skills to do that which I believe I easily can as I did this in more than 4 MMOs.

[justargos]

I am not against dual spec, but at the same time, the fact that this game has been out for less then 3 weeks and tons of people have already reached max level and are calling for dual spec disturbs me.

 

Why not just reroll and spend the couple weeks it took you the first time to level again with the second spec you want, make the game take a while longer, and have both specs ready to go?

 

With a game so easy to max level, making players have less reason to replay some content just shortens the life of the game even more.

 

I remember when reaching max level in a game was a huge accomplishment, that was the goal. Now everyone just races to max level and wonders what is next. God forbid they have to go back and replay something or see a different part of the story on their hellbent quest to 50.

[Skovick]

I can see the reason behind dual speccing, I can also see just rolling another toon, for heals, and another for dps. I already see tons of lvl 50's and the games been out for 2 weeks. In the end I'm neither for or against dual spec's but I certainly don't think its a high priority either way. I rather they fix Satele looking small in the JK story line.

[ferroz]

That was my point.... I was saying that people have subjective views of what is an Eastern or Western MMO and it doesn't matter..... so.... You educate yourself a bit maybe? I don't know, I am a bit confused by straw manning in general.

oh that's easy. Straw manning is where someone misrepresents your argument and refutes the misrepresented one, and then claims to have refuted your original point. Noone's done that to you as far as I can tell. I'm glad I could clear that up for you.

[geogenetic]

I see no reason to not have a dual spec as long as you can't change your Advanced Class. There are 3 talent trees though and you should at least be able to save 2 of them. I like this idea but it won't kill the game for me either way. I'm enjoying my Sage because he can still do damage and heal when needed.

[Andjalis]

I support this.

 

A downside would be that this would only increase the "comparison between games" from all the WoW fanboys

[TonyJP]

I'm all for Dual Spec. If you don't want it in game, you don't have to use it. It will have no affect on your gameplay what-so-ever. It'll make LFG for Flashpoints a hell of a lot easier. I play a DPS Sorcerer but when someone screams "LF1M <Flashpoint> Healer" I wish I could just go "Hey! I'll spec into my Corruption build! Invite me!".

[Kunitsukami]

oh that's easy. Straw manning is where someone misrepresents your argument and refutes the misrepresented one, and then claims to have refuted your original point. Noone's done that to you as far as I can tell. I'm glad I could clear that up for you.

 

Odd because it seems as though you've done it a good few times in this thread so far if that's it's definition. Look up a few other definitions of terms while your at it, being: "passive aggressive", "self righteous", ""ignorant", "arrogant", and "callow". Some "introspection" may then take place on your side.