What is your ion cannon experience?

[Verain]

Ion cannon is a primary weapon available only on the type 1 strike (Starguard / Enforcer || Rycer / Gladiator, "Starguard" in this conversation). Distinguished by a blue ball of ion with short range and incredible dps to shields and very low hull damage, ion cannon is the only unique weapon on the Starguard, the only ship capable of switching active blasters.

 

Because the cannon is tied to the ship, I think we should discuss it as such- ion cannon and burst laser cannon switchable on a scout frame might be amazing, but we don't have that as a thing, so we shouldn't spend time discussing it in that context.

 

The move, facts

The ion cannon has the same range increments as burst laser cannon, light laser cannon, and rapid fire laser cannon. This means that it caps out at 4000m. It has a LOT of close ranged accuracy- 122 is entirely possible as a 500m increment. It falls a bit short of double the damage of other lasers versus shields, but damage is divided by eight when applied to hull. The accuracy drops by 20% over the course of the move- not as amazing as weapons defined by a small drop (heavy laser cannon, 10%), but nowhere close to weapons with shocking drop offs (rapid fire lasers, 35%, burst laser cannons, 45, light laser cannons, 30%). Combined with up to a 28 degree firing arc with a 1% tracking penalty.This means that it retains really good damage per second and solid accuracy over the entirety of its short but wide cone.

 

It has a unique skill tree, accounting for the incredible accuracy. A 6% accuracy boost is the first talent, an incredible talent point that most guns can't approach. The already mild cost is then mitigated by a relatively not valuable -10% cost talent point, and then the reasonable rate of fire is increased by 8%.

 

At this point, the move forks out- the left options drain energy and blasters (4 per hit, not very much), and the right choices offer more of the same (5% range, 40 extra shield drain).

 

 

 

The builds

 

The normal builds discussed are:

 

Ions/Heavies/Clusters

Ions/Heavies/Concussions

Ions/Quads/Clusters

Ions/Quads/Concussion

Ions/Rapids/Clusters

 

There aren't that many total builds, but normally an ion cannon build doesn't rely on proton torpedo- with a long range, long lock on, and direct hull damage, it often works at cross purposes to the short range shield stripping ion cannon. Meanwhile, Ions/Rapids/Concussions has a problem where you are always fighting to stay in range and on target, and the concussion is harder to land than he properly "should" be.

 

Any of these builds normally discusses using Quick Charge (for mobility) or Directional (for defense), and barrel roll (for mobility) or retros (for offense), but the effect on ions is pretty small- in general, you'll be able to stay on targets longer with Quick Charge and Retros (and Retros makes the much larger difference), but that's true of all the weapons, not just ions.

 

 

 

 

My experience

 

I leveled my Starguard with heavy lasers / ion cannon / concussion, and my gladiator with rapid fire lasers / ion cannon / clusters. Both ships have had every possible upgrade for some time, but as I tried all the Starguard builds that sounded appealing to me, I always had a soft spot for the ion cannon- a very powerful but niche move.

 

As the heavy laser/ion build, I would normally run heavies, but the moment an opponent was both CLOSE and HAD SHIELDS I would press one and tear the shields off. I still fought as a normal medium ranged combatant, but I had this as a technique available. I would also preferentially close to gunships and bombers and tear their shields off as well- these opponents were normally being focused by allies, so this was more helpful than if I did it to some slow-game strike fighter (the fast-game gunship was playing at a different pace, and would likely not be allowed to regen to full without serious cooldown investment).

 

As the rapids/ion build, I was a lot weaker, mostly because of rapids. This build needs to close in on EVERYTHING, and a strike fighter choosing double turning can run out of breath very easily. You can do well in a fight, but GETTING to that fight can be hard, and scouts can simply opt out at any time, returning when they have numbers or initiative. But even with that more systemic weakness, the power of the build was still obvious, and it was clearly based on ions leading the charge. Ions would destroy any shield arc I was facing, and then rapid fires (talented for hull) would be combined with the clusters in mid air already to deal damage. The enemies that took that couldn't normally tank it- exceptions being charged plating builds, which the build had no game against at all.

 

 

 

 

Recently, folks have started debating the usefulness of the move. I think it's kind of hard to figure exactly how good it is, because it is absolutely wedded to the frame. Good pilots won't normally approach me with an ion cannon, because most good pilots don't run around on Starguards. There are exceptions, of course, players who excel at strikes and focus on them, but they aren't in such numbers that I can really say with authority what it is like to be set upon by a top tier player with a Starguard- it has only happened a couple times. I will say that when average and good players approach me or my teammates on an ion Starguard, it tends to be called in mumble. This means that we are aware of the threat of instantly losing a shield arc, and consider it not very desirable.

 

On the flipside, playing AS the Starguard, it's absolutely trivial to destroy a shield of any target that happens to allow me to be close without engaging in serious defensive maneuvers. I find that ion cannons can often hit scouts through evasion, even through distortion at times (and the shots are certainly cheap enough to try), leaving them in a great position for any hull damage. The problem, of course, is that the ship is not excellent at dealing said hull damage- rapid fire laser is the weakest close range option, and cluster missiles are certainly powerful but a scout has a lot of options to evade even them. Meanwhile, should you be running heavies (which can ignore armor, but whose final tier talent is entirely wasted versus shieldless enemies) or quads (which have a very high dps, and have an option to increase it versus hull) you will notice that close enemies are very hard to hit, as both of these weapons have a pretty powerful tracking penalty.

 

 

Ramalina brought up playing a "synergy" scout, where close enemies get ions and then swapped off, as enemy scouts and gunships deal hull damage and get kills. I've tried something a little bit similar, but normally found that I wasn't mobile enough to get my ions consistently on the target before the scout had thrown a lot of effort into clearing his shields- but in a dog-ball, it was definitely able to perform as you would imagine, with 600+ damage going off multiple times a second.

 

It's also almost unfair versus overcharged shields and fortress shield. The time on target for these is normally a bit higher, so the shield normally has no chance at all, and these shields put a lot of effort into "be big". It also deals tons of damage versus charged plating shields (who get a massive percent boost in exchange for their shield bleedthrough), but that damage is very likely to be meaningless- a charged plating ship would LIKE to have his shields around for when his plating is down, but it isn't strictly necessary, and if you don't have armor piercing (or a teammate) to immediately follow through with, the effort was not a good one, despite making numbers happen.

 

 

 

Overall, I like the excitement of having such a weapon, and I find that when flying against it, I fly differently enough because I don't want my shield stripped.

 

 

What is everyone else's experience with this move? Do you like it? Fear it? Hate it? Do you find opponents of high quality flying it or shunning it in your meta? When you fly it, do you find a lot of targets that it is effective against? Do you use a synergy strategy where in some situations you will swap off of shieldless opponents to find more shields to burn, with some burst laser scout taking shots?

Edited September 29, 2014 by Verain

[jcurri]

sorry m8...I'm sure there's plenty of worth in this post, but at the same time...

 

 

tl;dr

[Verain]

sorry m8...I'm sure

 

tl;dr

[Ryuku-sama]

Honestly?? Ion Cannons are probably the most powerful cannons on the T1.

[Delta_V]

My experience mirrors yours. When I get in range of an enemy *and* they still have shields, the ability to press "1" and simply make those shields cease to exist is pretty amazing. But this is a Strike we're talking about, and getting within 4k of an enemy that still has shields can be challenging. Especially if you are running Heavies or Quads, in which case you often could be shooting at the enemy for several thousand meters before you enter Ion Cannon range. But I definitely love the accuracy that lets you burn the shields off an evasion scout when other weapons would struggle to connect.

 

I've been arguing for buffing the Ion Cannon's range to 5k pretty much since release. That would increase the synergy with the T1 Strike's other weapon choices and represent a decent buff to a ship that is generally considered underpowered. If it is combined with some combination of buff to RFLs or the inclusion of LLCs, the build choices of the T1 Strike would become very interesting. You could be a mid-range death-dealer with Ions and Quads, or a multirole ship capable of fighting at any range with Heavies and RFLs or LLCs.

[arrefmak]

I'm not an ace pilot. I am a support pilot and focus usually on wingman duties and taking heat off someone who is getting double-teamed by the enemy.

 

I put some respectable numbers up for the team. And my style usually has good hit percentages and high assist numbers and modest kills.

 

I really like the synergy of the heavies/ions/concussions. It gets results, especially on satellite defense; where the satellite may kill the scout after you have ripped their shields off. In a dust-up ball of combat, flying with ions can produce a string of enemy deaths as pilots around me execute the finish of ships now without shields.

 

I'm not flying with voice or often in groups, but I think I also get a bit more focus from the enemy when they realize I'm loaded with ions.

[Nemarus]

I feel like there really is only one viable Rycer/StarGurad: Ions/Heavies/Clusters. Everything else is, at best gimp, and at worst a trap. And I think the original post spends a disproportionate amount of time discussing what primary weapon to pair with Ion Cannons. There is no good synergistic pairing--that's not the point of the Ion Cannon build.

 

The "main game loop" of the Ion Cannon build comes from its synergistic pairing with Cluster Missiles. Ion Cannons turn Cluster Missiles into quick-lock Proton Torpedoes. By the time you've finished locking on (1.3 seconds), your Ion Cannons have stripped the shields off almost any target. Your Cluster volley lands and deals over 800 hull damage (barring damage reduction).

 

This isn't some "bonus" of the build. It is the build. Ion/Cluster is your primary damage combo to burst-kill people before they know what's happening. Even if you have Heavies or Quads, it's better to not open with them, because they will force your target to go evasive. It's better to close to 4600m and open with Ion/Cluster.

 

Yes, that's right--4600m. Note that Ion Cannons get a range bonus at T4 that is far more valuable than the extra power drain. Combined with a range capacitor, this pushes Ion Cannon range to 4600m, making it combo even better with Cluster Missiles.

 

As for primary weapon, there is no choice but Heavies. You need them for 4 reasons:

 

1) To pop turrets

2) To cut through Charged Plating

3) To rack up mid-range kills when you get damage overcharge

4) To snipe kills on badly wounded targets

 

Heavies are also the best weapon to benefit from the Range Capacitor, since it pushes their range up to 6900m. And with Wingman, Heavies are perfectly adequate for finishing off targets you've red-hulled with the Ion/Cluster combo. That being said, in this build, Heavies are not your main weapon--they are a situational utility weapon.

 

Thus, there is no reason to consider Quads, which lack the utility of Heavies and don't get much in return; or Rapids, which are Rapids.

 

As for other missile choices, no. If you want to play a Concussion Missile or Proton Torpedo build, you are much better off in a T2 Strike or T3 Bomber. The T2 Strike can pair HLC's, LLC's, Clusters, or Torpedoes with Concussion Missiles. The T3 Bomber gets Power Dive and a drone or mines.

 

In my experience, the T1 Strike Ion/HLC/Cluster build is best combined with Directional Shields, since it lets you own in jousts. Also, paired with Turbo Reactor, Directional Shields can make you extremely hard to kill when hugging a sat to break LOS.

 

Overall, while this build can perform in TDM, it is shut down handily by Ion Railguns, just like every other Strike.

 

It is far better suited to Domination, where it use sats for cover. In Domination, its Ion/Cluster combo is great for clearing out ships sitting on a satellite (especially Bombers). Its quickly-recovering shields let it hold a sat alone for a long time. Its Heavies let it quickly pop turrets and solo clear nodes.

 

It is especially amazing when paired with a T3 Strike wingman with LLC's. The T1 is a Tank/DPS hybrid, and the T3 is the Tank/Healer hybrid. The T1 never runs out of Cluster Missiles, and the T3 gets unshielded targets it can finish off with its LLC's.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Nemarus

[Whizzer_]

My experience is that Ions are great against heavily shielded targets under a satellite, but not so good in open space.

They dont work as well as they should because they are in a Strike Frame, which imho is in a bit of a weak spot when you have to get pretty close to someone like a T2 Scout or a gunship.

Jousting with Ions can work pretty well, but most ships can simply decline to joust with a Strike.

Basically for me : Nice to have on occasion in a domination, still no reason to fly anything with Ions in TDM

[Ramalina]

The TL;DR version: Ion Cannons are a blast, but they're a high skill cap high reward option, and most of the skills you need to make them work are about GSF piloting and strategy, not a simple technique for using one weapon.

 

Yeah, my full take on Ions, it's fairly long.

 

For those that can't find or haven't read the GSF balance changes and "tweaks" thread that Verain sort of half referenced, I'll quote myself

 

Ion cannons are superb on a T1 strike if the pilot is skilled and flies to take advantage of them. The vast majority of damage done in GSF is shield damage, and Ion Cannons are fantastic at doing that. It's better than LLCs by more than 50% at medium range! Personally I prefer using a HLC-Ion-HLC approach, but a lot of people don't like using HLCs at point blank range so Quads and/or cluster missiles would be more typical for finishing off the target's hull.

 

Ion cannons are even better when teamwork is used. If you don't waste time swapping weapons it's possible to strip the shields from a lot of ships in a very short period of time. If there's a good scout or gunship pilot taking advantage of this it's sort of like giving them 100% uptime on offensive cooldowns or Damage Overcharge power-ups. You'll get assists and they'll get kills, but the joint score for the two ships could be grotesquely high.

 

Either approach takes some practice to get really proficient at, but ion cannon is not at all useless. It's just a bit tricky to combine with other weapons sometimes. They're also very underappreciated. I'd take stock Ion cannons over mastered Quads or RFLs on a T1 strike.

 

Given the damage fall off rate of Ion Cannons past medium range they'd only be good out to a max of about 5500 m in any case. You'd still have 87% accuracy at 7 km, but shield DPS would be around 3 without the T5 bonus shield drain and about 93 DPS with it.

 

Unlike Verian I mastered my first T1 with a Quads and Heavies build that was pretty close to the one I have on the first page of Stasie's GSF guide thread.

 

At that time I was not really impressed with Ion, and felt that it needed to be at least medium ranged in order to have any potential.

 

When I mastered my first T2 strike, due to forgetting to revert a silly crew choice, I upgraded from stock to mastered with NO FIRING ARC UPGRADES AT ALL. I also flew in a way that leaned very heavily on landing proton torpedoes in order to get kills. It was a very prolonged intensive workshop on holding aim in GSF.

 

Then, I switched GSF mains and decided that the second time around on my T2 I'd use HLCs in a pure long range build instead of Quads for a more generalist build. I found that I was consistently getting to nodes first in domination matches (barrel roll, speed thrusters, and solo queuing in case you're wondering how I managed that), and needing to hold them with Concussion Missiles and HLCs as my 'close range' weapons. I also found that with a few small adjustments the skillset of landing short range proton torpedo shots transferred quite nicely into landing short range (meaning down to 500 m) HLC shots.

 

Feeling comfortable with being able to use HLCs at close range, I decided I'd try out Ions on my T1, and if they were terrible, well, I could just stick with HLCs at all ranges and that would be ok. It took maybe two games for me to decide that the HLC/Ions build is the best possible primary weapons option for the T1. Quads would be o.k., but I think that what you loose in long range and pierce/ignore isn't worth the increased ease of use at short range (and if I really wanted easier shooting at close range with the "hull damage cannon" I'd use Wingman for that).

 

So in case it's not blatantly clear yet, I think that Ion Cannons are amazing and wonderful. There are some really important caveats though.

 

1. You need to have at least an adequate ability to hit targets at point blank range with your other primary weapon. If you can't do this Ion Cannons are only really effective in a coordinated team setting, which for most players won't be the case.

 

2. You need to have a firm grasp on the current GSF meta. Ion Cannons are a very specialist weapon, so it's easy to use them in ineffective ways. Understanding strategic and tactical GSF combat pretty well is the only reliable way to avoid wasting a LOT of weapons energy pool. If you can't answer the question, "will using a hefty chunk of weapons energy to destroy this target's shields almost instantly help me and/or my team," then Ion Cannons are not for you. This quiz is repeated many times per match, and you typically have at most 0.25 to 2 seconds to complete it correctly.

 

3. You need to understand how to be an opportunist in a Strike Fighter. Recognizing opportunities, exploiting opportunities, and creating opportunities. In other classes this is substantially gear based: speed, maneuverability, and overtuned burst damage create opportunities for scouts, railgun range and shield countering properties create opportunities for gunships, very high effective health, mines, and drones create opportunities for bombers that stick near LOS cover. Strikes are less blatant in the gear based arena. Some builds are much better than others, but opportunities are most based off of teamwork and being able to anticipate what other people are going to do so that you can take advantage of it. This is true for all classes of course, but in a strike (even with ion cannons) you can't expect to fall back on gear as a crutch if you're not doing very well at teamwork and anticipation.

 

4. You probably want a Strike build with a compromise of boost ability and turning capacity. So no turning thrusters, but probably some turning upgrades elsewhere. The C2-N2 vs Yuun and Blizz vs 2V-R8 also becomes a fairly important influence on how you're planning to fly on an Ion equipped strike. While Ions aren't horrible energy hogs if you're using your other primary weapon to full effect you almost always have to be carefully managing balance between weapons and engine energy pools. Verain mentioned taking Quick Charge Shields and Retros as probably the best choice, and that is what I run. The others can work, but you'll spend more time working at energy management. That's mostly a strike base spaceframe issue though, they're slightly underbudgeted for engine energy/efficiency. You just feel it a bit more when getting within 4000 m of a target at just the right moment is a core element of your play style.

 

 

Notes: I generally start shooting at about 4km even with the range capacitor because Ions have a moderately steep damage decline with range past medium range.

 

Engine power drain at T4 is very situational. It can hold a partly exhausted gunship or scout where you can kill it, if you tend not to switch weapons right away as the target's shields go down. Otherwise, the range increase is substantially better (and it always works).

 

Weapons power drain at T5 is a trap option, do not take it.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Ramalina

[Kuciwalker]

I use ion cannons because they are awesome and starwarsy, not because they're effective. My Starguard only comes out for matches I'm going to win anyway, so I haven't spent tons of effort optimizing my ion cannon play.

[caederon]

I'm largely in agreement with Nemarus, I think the Ion / Heavy / Cluster build makes the most sense, though the guns have no synergy with each other.

 

It would be so much more interesting if the T1 Strike could field LLCs instead of Rapids. Or, alternately (and preferrably) if Rapids weren't junk, that would solve the problem handily.

 

The thing that would make the most sense, though, is if there was something akin to a Heavy Ion Cannon (low rate of fire, range in the 6k area, basically an ion copy of HLC) that you could pair with a shorter ranged laser. Obviously it would have much more synergy if you could strip the shields as you close to range then open up with a powerful short range laser and clusters.

 

I like the idea of the T1 strike being a 'setup' ship, stripping shields off everything so teammates can finish them off. I've tried flying it like that a few times, but staying in range and chasing down targets is the big issue. It seems like not a lot of thought went into understanding how the ship plays when centering the build around ion cannon... which, as its 'signature' weapon, makes the T1 strike like a platypus... a weird little thing people can't quite figure out.

 

- Despon

[zaskar]

My only question is why crapids over quads? You need the extra range and umph.

 

I use them like everyone else, in concert with clusters. This combo may be the biggest unsung hero of GSF.

Edited September 29, 2014 by zaskar

[Altheran]

Ion cannons are probably one of the most underrated components.

 

Some people like to point how Blaster overcharge can reduce TTK significantly. But Ion cannons does that as well.

Yes, it's almost disgusting how it destroys Fortress Shields or Overcharged Shields... To the point where I'm seriously thinking they should regen significantly while active, even under fire, so that they can be meaningful even against Ion Cannons.

 

About counters...

I always play with highly regenerative shields when possible, because of such weapon. I even use Quick-charge with Turbo Reactor on my Starguard. (Lower CD)

Against odds, it is very efficient. On average, it is supposed to be the worst combination. But in practice, with power allocations, it becomes another story. But I digress.

[Jasa]

Starguard has been my favourite ship to fly for a long time even though it can't really match tier 2 scout or gunships in offensive power. I used to fly with quads/ion/clusters build, but switched to heavies sometime ago. I think my reasons were something like this:

 

1. heavies let me stay farther away and gave me better way to deal with turrets, mines and bombers.

2. quads suck at very close range - so do heavies, but higher range makes it up.

3. heavies have shield piercing. It does make ions less useful, but it's nice to take down enemies with low hull strenght without warning them by taking their shields down first.

4. While quads can have high dps they can't compete againts burst damage of well build tier 2 scouts so it didn't really feel like I was trading much away with change to heavies.

 

I use quick charge shield with large reactor because I have never really learned to use directionals effectively though I'm practicing with them on some ships. I usually use quick charge if hit by railgun or otherwise low on shields and retros for their offensiveness to get bit more distance between me and enemy to get more advantage from using heavies, but I have been thinking about trying barrel roll to get bit more mobility because I feel like it is one of biggest weaknesses on this ship. Concussion missiles might be decent choice too and I will probably try them at somepoint, but I think that with so many ways to break missile locks it's better to just spam them with clusters. At the moment I'm using wingman to counter some evasion of scouts and to buff gunships in my team, but I kinda liked using bypass with heavies too even though that makes ions little more useless.

 

I really like flying starguard/rycer they are decent ships... they lack some mobility, but are strong enough to eat some damage. Still they are too vulnerable to ion railgun and while pretty rare EMP that disables systems component can be pretty annoying one too.

 

Heavies really don't feel as "optimal" with ions as quads do due to higher difference in firing range - short firing range is biggest problem with ions. You need to be quite close to enemy to make use of ions and after taking down shields you are forced to switch for weapon with lower dps, accuracy and firing arc. While your enemy if using just bursts even without any buffs will be able to sustain quite high dps againts both shields and hull. Ofcourse enemy dps isn't that big problem unless you go againts them head on, but It's not easy to suprise people with ions either. You have to be close and they have pretty distinct sound and atleast I'm little wary of it whenever I hear it or notice someone using them in enemy team. It's not as dangerous as burst lasers or some other weapons, but still shouldn't be underestimated.

[TrinityLyre]

They are fun to use, but Star Guard / Rycer isn't exactly my top pick of useful ships (ClearlyClarion™). Ion cannon into a point blank concussion missile is always solid and entertaining. Ion cannon works well with clusters, but if I'm pursuing that route I may as well play a Sting / Skillfire.

 

Allow Clarions to use ion cannon, that wou... wait, the developers don't spend time on this anymore anyway. Irrelevant.

Edited September 29, 2014 by TrinityLyre

[Nemarus]

IThe thing that would make the most sense, though, is if there was something akin to a Heavy Ion Cannon (low rate of fire, range in the 6k area, basically an ion copy of HLC) that you could pair with a shorter ranged laser. Obviously it would have much more synergy if you could strip the shields as you close to range then open up with a powerful short range laser and clusters.

 

- Despon

 

In theory, this is what Ion Missile should do. The problem is that its reload is simply too long. Even every ship only had one missile break, instead of the 2-3 on some ships, Ion Missle's reload would still be too long. At best, you can only ever fire the thing every 13.6 seconds, not accounting for failed locks or missile flight time. And even then, someone with just Power Dive, Snap Turn, K-Turn, or Retro Thrusters could missile break every one.

 

There's no reason Ion Missile should have a significantly different use profile than Concussion Missile.

 

Also, to really be worthwhile, it would probably need a "shield drain" ability (like T5 Ion Cannon), apart from the shield damage, that would affect both arcs of a target.

[zaskar]

In theory, this is what Ion Missile should do. The problem is that its reload is simply too long. Even every ship only had one missile break, instead of the 2-3 on some ships, Ion Missle's reload would still be too long. At best, you can only ever fire the thing every 13.6 seconds, not accounting for failed locks or missile flight time. And even then, someone with just Power Dive, Snap Turn, K-Turn, or Retro Thrusters could missile break every one.

 

There's no reason Ion Missile should have a significantly different use profile than Concussion Missile.

 

Also, to really be worthwhile, it would probably need a "shield drain" ability (like T5 Ion Cannon), apart from the shield damage, that would affect both arcs of a target.

 

That and right now ION / Interdiction / sab probe are all brokedick, none do everything they are supposed to do.

[Pilgrim_Grey]

I'm hoping to try them out more, I mastered my Starguard and have been slowly upgrading my ions to give them a go. I'm a little unsure of how they'll be, but I'm willing to give it a go. I just prefer mid to long range fights with my Starguard (and don't really have many issues in a satellite fight as it is), so it didn't seem worth trying before I mastered it.

 

Comments in here are giving me some tactics ideas, at least... though I'm wondering if the ion builds are better for non-domination rounds. Usually a lot more mid to long range fighting in those.

[Nemarus]

I'm hoping to try them out more, I mastered my Starguard and have been slowly upgrading my ions to give them a go. I'm a little unsure of how they'll be, but I'm willing to give it a go. I just prefer mid to long range fights with my Starguard (and don't really have many issues in a satellite fight as it is), so it didn't seem worth trying before I mastered it.

 

Comments in here are giving me some tactics ideas, at least... though I'm wondering if the ion builds are better for non-domination rounds. Usually a lot more mid to long range fighting in those.

 

Being a T1 or T2 Strike in a TDM means you are simply food for Scouts and Gunships. You are powerless against an Ion Railgun and will be outmaneuvered by any Scout. The T3 Strike is only viable in TDM because it has Power Dive, which can be used with zero engine energy. And even if the T3 Strike cannot get many kills, its command ability at least aids allies. The T1 and T2 offer nothing in TDM--any exceptional TDM performance from them is due to very poor opposition, and could be duplicated in any ship.

 

And Ion Cannon has a max range of 4600. It is terrible for mid range combat--not sure what comments you are referring to. Trust me, I have an alt who only flies an Ion/Heavy/Cluster Rycer in TDM. He performs far worse than my alt who only flies a Blackbolt in TDM. The opposite is true for Domination. The Rycer is far better than the Blackbolt at muscling control of nodes and prying off Bombers from sats.

 

There is nobility in trying to be creative and flying something unusual. But T1 and T2 Strikes have been explored pretty thoroughly, and there is no path for them to compete at even moderate levels in TDM. Not when any scrub with an Ion Railgun can shut them down from 15km. To say nothing of battlescouts.

[Ramalina]

Being a T1 or T2 Strike in a TDM means you are simply food for Scouts and Gunships. You are powerless against an Ion Railgun and will be outmaneuvered by any Scout. The T3 Strike is only viable in TDM because it has Power Dive, which can be used with zero engine energy. And even if the T3 Strike cannot get many kills, its command ability at least aids allies. The T1 and T2 offer nothing in TDM--any exceptional TDM performance from them is due to very poor opposition, and could be duplicated in any ship.

 

And Ion Cannon has a max range of 4600. It is terrible for mid range combat--not sure what comments you are referring to. Trust me, I have an alt who only flies an Ion/Heavy/Cluster Rycer in TDM. He performs far worse than my alt who only flies a Blackbolt in TDM. The opposite is true for Domination. The Rycer is far better than the Blackbolt at muscling control of nodes and prying off Bombers from sats.

 

There is nobility in trying to be creative and flying something unusual. But T1 and T2 Strikes have been explored pretty thoroughly, and there is no path for them to compete at even moderate levels in TDM. Not when any scrub with an Ion Railgun can shut them down from 15km. To say nothing of battlescouts.

 

Re-read his comment Nemarus. He was saying he hasn't taken Ion previously because he likes mid range combat and Ion doesn't have enough reach for that.

 

Sounds like TEH's meta is very GS heavy at the moment, I'll have to pop by to check it out. I don't really think of them as problems for strikes in TDM unless there are more than 4 hostile ones on the map. At low concentrations they can be managed with LOS. (I do have to say that giving the T3 the tools to fight at all ranges was a bit of a dirty trick on the devs' part. In some ways they can be even more annoying than a T1 GS, if not quite as deadly for the team as a whole.)

 

As for Battlescouts, they can mostly just be managed with defensive flying. They may be overtuned, but they can't stuff infinite boost, sick burst, and max turning all into the same build. With a good strike build you should have either enough speed or enough turn rate to be able to LOS and get shots on a T2. It's a pain, and you have to be a better pilot than them to win or even tie in a 1v1, but the performance gap is of a size where pilot reaction time can give you just barely enough time to hold your own. Honestly, T1 scouts with good pilots tend to worry me more as they have builds where the tradeoffs between speed, turn, and firepower are much smaller than those for the T2.

 

Of course a strike won't carry against skilled opposition, but on a per pilot scale as long as your K/D ratio is greater than 1 at the end of the match you were winning even if your team wasn't. That is manageable on a strike, if you fly with a sufficiently large dose of paranoia in TDM.

[Nemarus]

Re-read his comment Nemarus. He was saying he hasn't taken Ion previously because he likes mid range combat and Ion doesn't have enough reach for that.

 

Sounds like TEH's meta is very GS heavy at the moment, I'll have to pop by to check it out. I don't really think of them as problems for strikes in TDM unless there are more than 4 hostile ones on the map. At low concentrations they can be managed with LOS. (I do have to say that giving the T3 the tools to fight at all ranges was a bit of a dirty trick on the devs' part. In some ways they can be even more annoying than a T1 GS, if not quite as deadly for the team as a whole.)

 

As for Battlescouts, they can mostly just be managed with defensive flying. They may be overtuned, but they can't stuff infinite boost, sick burst, and max turning all into the same build. With a good strike build you should have either enough speed or enough turn rate to be able to LOS and get shots on a T2. It's a pain, and you have to be a better pilot than them to win or even tie in a 1v1, but the performance gap is of a size where pilot reaction time can give you just barely enough time to hold your own. Honestly, T1 scouts with good pilots tend to worry me more as they have builds where the tradeoffs between speed, turn, and firepower are much smaller than those for the T2.

 

Of course a strike won't carry against skilled opposition, but on a per pilot scale as long as your K/D ratio is greater than 1 at the end of the match you were winning even if your team wasn't. That is manageable on a strike, if you fly with a sufficiently large dose of paranoia in TDM.

 

TEH isn't particularly Gunship heavy, but all it takes is one Ion Railgun (stock) hit to shut a Strike down (assuming that Strike has already used ip some engine energy boosting). Sure, the Strike might limp to cover--but he is totally vulnerable to any other enemies while he does so. He is without boost, without missile break, without significant evasion, and his formidable shields are almost gone on an arc.

 

At the end of the day, if I am attempting to carry a TDM in my Blackbolt, I kill Gunships (because they'll kill me) and T1 and T2 Strikes--not because they are threatening, but because they are easy to kill. It is unfortunate, but it's the truth.

 

Any Strike in TDM has to perpetually be focused on how not to be farmed, rather than how to produce kills for the team.

[arkanone]

I find if I keep drilling with ions after their shields are gone, they blow up pretty soon after. It doesn't seem to make cluster missiles more effective though. Clusters are good for clearing out nodes and forcing gunship turds to scoot(they apparently can't tell the difference between a potentially fatal Proton-Concussion-Thermite lock and a quick Cluster lock that'll barely hurt) but that's about it.

[Drakkolich]

I find if I keep drilling with ions after their shields are gone, they blow up pretty soon after. It doesn't seem to make cluster missiles more effective though. Clusters are good for clearing out nodes and forcing gunship turds to scoot(they apparently can't tell the difference between a potentially fatal Proton-Concussion-Thermite lock and a quick Cluster lock that'll barely hurt) but that's about it.

 

I'm not one for raging on peoples posts usually but what the hell is this? You basically just said there can't possibly be any good players in the world that play gunship and could distinguish between those different missile locks. You also just said you are too lazy to swap to a weapon that does more damage to hull because continuing to shoot them with ions after there shields are gone will still do damage. Also saying that cluster isn't more powerful when it does damage straight to hull is kind of ludicrous.

 

We get it most players that we play against are really easy to kill, but can we stop assuming that the best strategy is the one that can kill bad players and is easier to do.

[Fractalsponge]

The butthurt is strong with that one Drak, don't bother engaging. He is, after all, the one that brought us the "map hack" thread.

[arkanone]

I'm not one for raging on peoples posts usually but what the hell is this? You basically just said there can't possibly be any good players in the world that play gunship and could distinguish between those different missile locks. You also just said you are too lazy to swap to a weapon that does more damage to hull because continuing to shoot them with ions after there shields are gone will still do damage. Also saying that cluster isn't more powerful when it does damage straight to hull is kind of ludicrous.

 

We get it most players that we play against are really easy to kill, but can we stop assuming that the best strategy is the one that can kill bad players and is easier to do.

 

Most gunship regulars will sit through extended blaster fire but a missile lock will get them moving every time. So yeah, you can throw some ion on beforehand but I'd rather not use up laser energy at this point. The gunships next move is going to be barrel roll so I hit the burners and give chase until they're just inside heavy laser range.

 

Now both their shield and evasion abilities are on cooldown and thier engines are low on juice. Anytime a gunship's moving they're not sniping anybody...