The balance in Starfighter is way off.

[Verain]

You want MORE tracking penalties? Goodness, it's almost impossible to hit with anything but BLC unless you are dead center already. BLC, that is sort of its thing. I would honestly be vastly in favor of REDUCED tracking penalties, so that the reticule could meaningfully hit opponents when not nose-to-target.

 

Taking this away from BLC would destroy the gun, and basically make the firing arc dead for everything else. What can deal damage off center besides BLC? A lucky quad crit?

 

All fair points. I think I'm just so used to the interceptor class of ships from other Star Wars games having speed typical of the current scout class it just seems too weird to take that away from him. But I concede that such an opinion is not unanimous.

 

I agree, and for the same reasons. I am just of the opinion that the scout was sold as a bundle, and nerfing that bundle is ok, but replacing it with a different bundle is not.

[Drakkolich]

You want MORE tracking penalties? Goodness, it's almost impossible to hit with anything but BLC unless you are dead center already. BLC, that is sort of its thing. I would honestly be vastly in favor of REDUCED tracking penalties, so that the reticule could meaningfully hit opponents when not nose-to-target.

 

Taking this away from BLC would destroy the gun, and basically make the firing arc dead for everything else. What can deal damage off center besides BLC? A lucky quad crit?

 

 

 

I agree, and for the same reasons. I am just of the opinion that the scout was sold as a bundle, and nerfing that bundle is ok, but replacing it with a different bundle is not.

 

Pretty sure they said more tracking penalties but less global evasion. They want to reward skill even more, by forcing everyone to aim in the middle. This would make it even harder for average to worse players to hit everything then it is right now. As targets without evasion would be harder to hit.

[t-darko]

More importantly, the balance in GSF isn't so wrecked that the game is unplayable. I have to deal with Scrabs and Strixes and other high damage scout builds wielded by extremely strong players, while in a gunship or bomber sometimes, after all, and those classes still have important jobs and are capable of defensive flight.

 

Tell that to the fellows just starting, a failure to admit the discrepancy between beginner and seasoned is what ultimately at the end gonna diminish the PvP community in general and GSF in particular, if the game isn't fun in the 10-15 first trys people will leave, perma leave, I've been at it since pre-launch, and I pity the one's just detecting it and are bold enough try it . . .

 

" A multi phased plan for GSF . . ." is another way of saying , "We see and recognize the problem and are willing to try to rectify it . . ."

 

This statement will be followed by a couple of L2P post and a 'know it all' response by the one quoted . . .

[Verain]

Pretty sure they said more tracking penalties but less global evasion. They want to reward skill even more, by forcing everyone to aim in the middle. This would make it even harder for average to worse players to hit everything then it is right now. As targets without evasion would be harder to hit.

 

Honestly, it's punishment from god getting quads to land anywhere but center already. Plus, the ships with evasion get that in exchange for other defenses.

 

 

I dunno, when I'm direct on center and the shot doesn't hit the scout it is frustrating, but it just feels like a coin flip if the target is slightly off center with most guns. I just think it is wild that someone is bothered by the scout with baseline evasion who stacks the crewman with evasion with the shield with evasion but less shields with the armor with evasion but less health and no damage reduction, but is ok with the difficulty of dealing reasonable damage to anyone not directly undernose.

 

That request just sounds like a scout nerf request, now that you phrase it out fully.

[Verain]

Tell that to the fellows just starting,

 

Why would they expect to walk into a game and be amazing at it? That's silly, right?

 

a failure to admit the discrepancy between beginner and seasoned is what ultimately at the end gonna diminish the PvP community in general and GSF in particular, if the game isn't fun in the 10-15 first trys people will leave, perma leave, I've been at it since pre-launch, and I pity the one's just detecting it and are bold enough try it . . .

 

I *DO* agree that the game needs to give more rewards, and faster, especially at the start. I think within six games you should be playing with a lot more options than you had initially, because this likely represents a couple hours at the machine. The incoming buff to req gains, especially the initial quest req gains, will help for certain.

 

" A multi phased plan for GSF . . ." is another way of saying , "We see and recognize the problem and are willing to try to rectify it . . ."

 

Disagree. The incoming changes to req are meant to address some req based issues, but whatever changes they actually have planned should address much more than that.

 

 

The issue with this game is not "scouts can burst down a stationary target in 4 seconds". Yea, scout burst is high, and should be shrunk a bit, mostly by hitting the cooldowns. Gunship burst can be a bit much too. But this isn't driving people away. I think the fact that you, more than rarely, can sit in queue for 20 minutes and then pop into a match where your team has no chance is absolutely disheartening. You see me arguing with people who came in and go wah QQ gear blah blah because they are super wrong and spreading lies, but if you rephrased it to what they are ACTUALLY saying- "I've played a bunch of games and I can barely ever get wins or impact the game"- it's VERY legit feedback. Cross sever, megaserver, something like that would fix it. You need to have like four to six simul games before you can start juggling and making matches, and right now that's VERY rare- two to three is normal. Merging would solve that, as the noobs would actually face each other a lot more often, with the occasional farmyface match (in fact, you'd need to discourage them leaving more if they thought they could instant pop into another game- a problem for once we have a solution to the more pressing one, indeed!).

 

This statement will be followed by a couple of L2P post and a 'know it all' response by the one quoted . . .

 

Of course. I could claim 1+1=3 and some "know it all" will come along...

Edited October 17, 2014 by Verain

[Gavin_Kelvar]

You want MORE tracking penalties? Goodness, it's almost impossible to hit with anything but BLC unless you are dead center already. BLC, that is sort of its thing. I would honestly be vastly in favor of REDUCED tracking penalties, so that the reticule could meaningfully hit opponents when not nose-to-target.

 

Taking this away from BLC would destroy the gun, and basically make the firing arc dead for everything else. What can deal damage off center besides BLC? A lucky quad crit?

 

He latched on to my idea but only focused on the tracking penalty aspect. I was in favor of adjusting both accuracy and tracking penalties to allow an overall reduction in evasion as a defensive stat (basically shift the RNG over to the shooter's side similar to how FPS games do so with recoil/bullet spread). The goal ultimately being reducing the feeling that a deflection shot is a coin flip and more something in your control. Some weapons would still be better than others in deflection shooting of course.

 

That being said I know it would basically require a near complete overhaul of components so I grant it's highly unlikely. But I do think it would greatly improve the newbie experience by giving them the feeling that they have more control over hitting a target. Sort of like how any FPS can be brutal until you start learning how to control recoil/spread but it is possible to work on. Right now all you can work on is lining up shots (and at least attempting to fire dead center, but unless you're in a scout that can be very hard to do unless your target is even less maneuverable than you), the rest is in the hands of an RNG coin flip.

 

For example you could break down the dominance of burst by giving weapons like RFLs better sustained fire accuracy whereas weapons with very high burst (like BLC) would have less accuracy during sustained fire. With such a change it would give a more meaningful purpose to RFLs being basically able to shoot indefinitely (and in a way would also mean newbies wouldn't be so very very screwed in starter ships).

 

Defensive components would be more difficult but off the top of my head you could basically make light weight armor give a turning modification to improve ability to take manual evasion (basically poor man's turning thrusters) and DField could have it's active replaced with a tensor field like buff to turning (which might actually solve the missile lock problem too since you'd be giving the pilot an improved ability to maneuver out of the firing arc without it being a "make that annoying beeping go away" button; it rewards a pilot that can break the lock prior to launch while not trivializing a missile that has already been launched).

 

Again I know this is basically a major, major overhaul so unlikely to happen.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Gavin_Kelvar

[Kargaran]

In hopes that a dev reads this please develop a way to separate good gsf pilots from bads or at least find a way to balance the ques so that one or two good pilots don't get qued with nothing but bads versus a decent team

[Kissakias]

unbalanced?

when u fight with a ''black market'' set and the other has ''oriconian'' and u loose..... thats unfair?

You saying the same thing

and you dont include and the mechanics that you dont know, and what all those abilities u have, and all those abilities that u can change so to fit your preferences ...

 

 

fffsss man

[Verain]

unbalanced?

when u fight with a ''black market'' set and the other has ''oriconian'' and u loose..... thats unfair?

 

I'm going to assume those are gear tiers, and that they are far apart in terms of item level and granted power. If that's wrong, sorry, correct me.

 

In general, the power delta from one tier to the next is pretty important in the ground game. I know that WoW, which I have a lot of experience with, how much sort of varies in each expansion based on dev whim and how much they feel constitutes a "visceral upgrade". Unless gearing is super tightly done in this game, I would imagine that the damage output ramps up pretty largely from intro 55 gear to max 55 gear, and VASTLY more from level 1 no gear to fully geared 55.

 

But mapping that to GSF is incorrect. No upgraded component is THAT much better. Nothing does double damage when upgraded, for instance, even versus base, and the typical upgrade range when comparing what most players spend their leveling time in (assume tier 1 and tier 2 talents, versus tier 1-5 talents) is around 20% at the outside. Comparing to stock is a bit silly, as you should only be running bone stock for a few games- by the time you've played two dozen games, you have a bunch of upgrades.

 

 

So no, the gear compare falls flat. GSF ships don't upgrade very sharply compared to most MMOs. Drakolich can have all those streams where he's running a stock ship, but he couldn't show himself topping meters as an ungeared level 1 trooper, or even a fresh 55.

[Magira]

 

In general, the power delta from one tier to the next is pretty important in the ground game. I know that WoW, which I have a lot of experience with, how much sort of varies in each expansion based on dev whim and how much they feel constitutes a "visceral upgrade". Unless gearing is super tightly done in this game, I would imagine that the damage output ramps up pretty largely from intro 55 gear to max 55 gear, and VASTLY more from level 1 no gear to fully geared 55.

 

 

Nope, that's wrong. With the implementation of Bolsters, it is essentially the same. The difference between good PVE Gear and the best PVP gear is about 2-3%. Skill everything would be in PVP, if it were not for the matchmaking problem.

 

 

But mapping that to GSF is incorrect. No upgraded component is THAT much better. Nothing does double damage when upgraded, for instance, even versus base, and the typical upgrade range when comparing what most players spend their leveling time in (assume tier 1 and tier 2 talents, versus tier 1-5 talents) is around 20% at the outside. Comparing to stock is a bit silly, as you should only be running bone stock for a few games- by the time you've played two dozen games, you have a bunch of upgrades.

 

 

Quite the contrary. While the Gear in PVP has no great influence, it plays a much larger role in the GSF because the Gear is in fact also the talent tree. Compared to PVP Stock Ship is a level 1 char a mastered a 55 Char. No one would seriously get the idea to pit against each the.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Magira

[Verain]

Nope, that's wrong. With the implementation of Bolsters, it is essentially the same. The difference between good PVE Gear and the best PVP gear is about 2-3%. Skill everything would be in PVP, if it were not for the matchmaking problem.

 

But bolster is not always active. Also, I kind of have a hard time buying that bolster takes it to 3%- I did play after bolster was around, and the gear delta was reduced but definitely not something like 3%.

 

Quite the contrary. While the Gear in PVP has no great influence, it plays a much larger role in the GSF because the Gear is in fact also the talent tree. Compared to PVP Stock Ship is a level 1 char a mastered a 55 Char. No one would seriously get the idea to pit against each the.

 

Sorry, are you seriously claiming that a level 55 does about 40% more damage than a level 1?

[Ryuku-sama]

Nope, that's wrong. With the implementation of Bolsters, it is essentially the same. The difference between good PVE Gear and the best PVP gear is about 2-3%. Skill everything would be in PVP, if it were not for the matchmaking problem.

 

You know th poster talked about Black Market and Oriconian gear.. which are PvE gear. And no one understanding Bolster would use Oriconian in PvP, 'cause you actually end up taking much more damage than in 162.

 

Quite the contrary. While the Gear in PVP has no great influence, it plays a much larger role in the GSF because the Gear is in fact also the talent tree. Compared to PVP Stock Ship is a level 1 char a mastered a 55 Char. No one would seriously get the idea to pit against each the.

 

But honestly, bolstered a lvl 25 can't parse higher than 1k. A 55 bolstered to the same sat will parse a cute 3.5k on average. That's a 250% increase.. Far from the 30% increase any weapon can see in GSF.

[Magira]

You know th poster talked about Black Market and Oriconian gear.. which are PvE gear. And no one understanding Bolster would use Oriconian in PvP, 'cause you actually end up taking much more damage than in 162.

 

Ah, an education gap. I'm not fit in PVE. But anyway here PVE does not matter, we are in PVP.

[Magira]

Sorry, are you seriously claiming that a level 55 does about 40% more damage than a level 1?

 

PVP is only at level 10, and yes, the difference between a level 10 char and a level 55 is not great in PVP. Significantly less than 40% damage. Bolster helps.

Nevertheless, no one would have the idea to send all in the same Warzone.

Different are also the skills that would make the fight very unequal.

Therefore, PVP is divided into Level 10-29, 30-54 and 55th

[Ryuku-sama]

PVP is only at level 10, and yes, the difference between a level 10 char and a level 55 is not great in PVP. Significantly less than 40% damage. Bolster helps.

Nevertheless, no one would have the idea to send all in the same Warzone.

Different are also the skills that would make the fight very unequal.

Therefore, PVP is divided into Level 10-29, 30-54 and 55th

 

You're so wrong. Take a lvl 20ish, use the bolsterizer and try to parse for 5 min. You will hardly break the 1k DPS.... Do the same at lvl 45 and you will break the 3k once bolstered. From 45 to 55 there are almost no change since you have most of your proc and abilities already. So stop your non sense.

[Magira]

You're so wrong. Take a lvl 20ish, use the bolsterizer and try to parse for 5 min. You will hardly break the 1k DPS.... Do the same at lvl 45 and you will break the 3k once bolstered. From 45 to 55 there are almost no change since you have most of your proc and abilities already. So stop your non sense.

 

Parsing? DPS? This is PVE. PVP is burst.

 

Ok, but let's numbers:

 

Bonus Damage my 55 Sorc: 1320

Bonus damage my 35 sage: 1265

 

Both directly in the Warzone.

[tommmsunb]

I wanna say that most of the balance issues are resolved by player skill. At the highest echelon a strike fighter has just as much of a chance to kill a scout as the scout has to kill it. Gunships are kinda like a caster class so it makes sense they can be chased off because if left alone have the best kill potential. Bombers just need to use surroundings. At the lowest level scouts win particularly because people flying straight are easily bursted.

[Ryuku-sama]

Parsing? DPS? This is PVE. PVP is burst.

 

Ok, but let's numbers:

 

Bonus Damage my 55 Sorc: 1320

Bonus damage my 35 sage: 1265

 

Both directly in the Warzone.

 

Again you are skewing the numbers. I asked you to parse my Bolsterizer up so you can see how much the lack of abilities and procs change the power level of a spec.. there is nothing like that in GSF.

[Verain]

Parsing? DPS? This is PVE. PVP is burst.

 

Ok, but let's numbers:

 

Bonus Damage my 55 Sorc: 1320

Bonus damage my 35 sage: 1265

 

Both directly in the Warzone.

 

Burst or not, the numbers he's saying are over a factor of two apart. That's vastly different that a couple little percents here and there.

 

Also, again, the compare to stock ships is unfair. Who flies a stock ship? A mastered ship is 150k, but a ship with 20k on it has closed much of the power gap- far more than the 13% of req than it has closed the req gap. Who can't afford 1000 req upgrades, etc?

 

At the highest echelon a strike fighter has just as much of a chance to kill a scout as the scout has to kill it.

 

I don't really think this is true. I would agree that player skill does reduce the effect that, say, burst cooldowns have, but it's still much better to have distortion field than not, it's still much better to have targeting telemetry than not, etc.

 

At the lowest level scouts win particularly because people flying straight are easily bursted.

 

Definitely agree. I mean, burst damage has place in ANY pvp, but it has a GREAT place at the low level. If you are distracted, a scout can come up and destroy you, but if you are focused you'll get away. The lower skill players are essentially NEVER focused- they just get blasted to dust every time. Etc.

[tommmsunb]

 

 

 

I don't really think this is true. I would agree that player skill does reduce the effect that, say, burst cooldowns have, but it's still much better to have distortion field than not, it's still much better to have targeting telemetry than not, etc.

 

 

.

 

My 1 v 1 record with scrab in my strike and him in his scout is actually in my favor.

[Drakkolich]

My 1 v 1 record with scrab in my strike and him in his scout is actually in my favor.

 

That kind of just makes me feel like scrab was playing wrong. If that is the case I think you're just out flying him. It might also have something to do with the specific scout build I know he likes to run, I personally think a burst/cluster scout beats a strike everytime. I'd love to see some videos of you proving me wrong though ^^

[tommmsunb]

That kind of just makes me feel like scrab was playing wrong. If that is the case I think you're just out flying him. It might also have something to do with the specific scout build I know he likes to run, I personally think a burst/cluster scout beats a strike everytime. I'd love to see some videos of you proving me wrong though ^^

 

I can't really record but I'll try on Nov 2nd though I don't know how good my strike is on my imp.

Edited October 17, 2014 by tommmsunb

[Magira]

Again you are skewing the numbers. I asked you to parse my Bolsterizer up so you can see how much the lack of abilities and procs change the power level of a spec.. there is nothing like that in GSF.

 

These are two pair of boots.

 

One is the damage that makes a skill in itself. The others are the improvements and procs that come from the talent tree. Of course there are differences, not without reason, there are three brackets in PVP.

 

But I think we digress. At least I do.

 

Also in GSF there are skills that have to take effect properly in the best state of development. One example is Tensor. Before T5 it is not very strong because the engine run out of energy too fast. Only with T5 it is possible to come to the satellite with full tensor Speed in Denon.

[Ryuku-sama]

Also in GSF there are skills that have to take effect properly in the best state of development. One example is Tensor. Before T5 it is not very strong because the engine run out of energy too fast. Only with T5 it is possible to come to the satellite with full tensor Speed in Denon.

 

True. Many components becomes effective after a few upgrades... But most of them depend on their T2 upgrade, not their T5. Disto and Tensor being notable exception.

[Magira]

True. Many components becomes effective after a few upgrades... But most of them depend on their T2 upgrade, not their T5. Disto and Tensor being notable exception.

 

Remote Slicing also. This is more or less crap before T5. Sabotage Probe before T4. EMP before T5. etc.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Magira