Why are gunships so OP?

[Callly]

Yes 1 on 1's do happen, rare yes but does happen. in pug teams quite often im the only one going after gunships so its me v 1,2,3 gunships, win some, lose some, depends on the quality of gunship pilot im against and if im having a good game or a bad game.

 

mistake many make with gunships is that 1st hit they sit there looking for where target is, BANG ya dead. on my scout, fighter, moment i take one hit that either strips my shields or good bit of damage to hull i dont try to find the gunship im outter there regroup my self find the gunship while on move never stopping then plan my attack run (all in split of a second ofc).

 

more often than not i fly around on fire doesnt mean its over for me, never stop keep fighting, lead person following u round tight corners, tight spaces type of thing be quite surprised how many actually self distruct crashing. oh and dont forget most teams now have at least one bomber or a clarion, or t3 scout running repair drone, little tip look for them know ya teams where abouts.

 

and if a gunship flee's. whats ya problem, hes out of the fight not an issue for u right now or ya team.

 

fighting gunships or 1 v2 is a massive learn to play issue, its not in the heads of just a few of us, i see it i do it,

 

you can kill them it dosen't mean its balanced...and yeah sometimes you are the only one to try to killing them. its still not a one on one. because when you get in position when you get in range. he's not waiting you. he kills people. so yeah you kill a sniper yeaah so cool ! he shots 4 time before. Its not a good trade.

 

in domination i saw so many time in some small map a sniper just in range of point B when you try to hunt him down? he just get back to the spawn so you are forced to disengaged and 30s later he's back killing more people. what the option? you can't stop him.

[Asbetos]

what the option? you can't stop him.

 

Keep chasing him, the skill required for a gunship to survive a scout attack is much higher than the skill required for a scout to kill a gunship. Unless he's an ace he'll run out of engine power pretty fast and will be a sitting duck for anyone to blow to pieces.

[Fractalsponge]

no a sniper hit in a dogfight will generaly put me really low life. so its like a big target on my head EASYKILL HERE. if i outranged the 2 scouts with a good amount of health. in direction of my team i will be generaly safe. Too risky to follow. If they just need 2 or 3 hit to kill me they will follow..

 

and the point is one on one against sniper... that dosen't exist. so why always talking about one on one? a sniper have plenty of target in front of him you come from the side. If he's good he flees in the right directions to put you in danger. if not he just die here trying to hit more people.

 

But one on one?

 

Yes, shift the goalposts. You don't like the 1v1 comparison, you you bring up 1v2. You don't like where that argument took you, so you now throw in a full team. OK, I'll humor this one more time.

 

- "a sniper hit in a dogfight will generaly put me really low life"

You ever get hit by a scout burst? TT+quads+pods+wingman/CF? BO/BLC/double cluster/CF? It hurts about as bad as a slug railgun, and it can be repeated rapidly, several times, in the time it takes a gunship to charge another full shot. A slug crit would outpace that damage, but that happens 16% of the time, and has much more RNG than close range BLC fire. A battlescout with TT up, that got you by surprise, will hit you again easily if you didn't respond IMMEDIATELY to the first hit. The point here is that gunship or scout, if you get surprised with a big opening hit, the result is the same.

 

- "if i outranged the 2 scouts with a good amount of health"

So did the hypothetical first hit leave you hurting OR NOT? If it wounded you really badly, like I said above, you're screwed regardless if it's a scout or a gunship - one more shot of anything will finish you. If you weren't badly hit and have time to react, then *** are you doing staying in such a ****** matchup? Faced with gunship or burst scout, the response is the same. If your team is around, then it's not a good scenario - IF your team is decent, why is no one harassing the gunships, or peeling the scout?

 

"why always talking about one on one?"

- 1v1 vs a sniper absolutely does exist. No gunship pilot is good enough to keep tabs on every possible target in play, especially if they're zoomed in already. And plenty of gunship pilots will position to get kills, as you just said. Often, this means positioning away from their team to get the right angles. Scout burst will easily kill a gunship in one pass, before many pilots can react appropriately. I've done it plenty of times before. And we talk about these scenarios because there are too many variables to talk about 8v8 or 12v12. Almost all fights resolve at the level of individual ships, not group on group.

 

- "If he's good he flees in the right directions to put you in danger."

SO DOES EVERY GOOD PILOT IN EVERY SHIP. If you're surprised and disadvantaged, you run if you can. Scout, strike, gunship, whatever. You said so yourself: "in direction of my team i will be generaly safe. Too risky to follow." The principle is the same. A gunship can hit you if you have to withdraw, but only if you were stupid to begin with and chased him into a bad spot without leftover engine pool or cooldowns. This is a L2P issue. I've poached people from the capital ships in a scout in domination, because I burst them down while my defensive cooldowns were up, and had enough engine power to outrange the turrets and spawning enemy ships afterwards. Timing.

 

TL;DR Getting jumped by scout = just as bad as getting jumped by gunship. L2P to deal with both, and stop QQing on the forums.

[mattycutts]

you can kill them it dosen't mean its balanced...and yeah sometimes you are the only one to try to killing them. its still not a one on one. because when you get in position when you get in range. he's not waiting you. he kills people. so yeah you kill a sniper yeaah so cool ! he shots 4 time before. Its not a good trade.

 

in domination i saw so many time in some small map a sniper just in range of point B when you try to hunt him down? he just get back to the spawn so you are forced to disengaged and 30s later he's back killing more people. what the option? you can't stop him.

 

yes u can stop him. when im on my gunship, if im against a good team moment i enter fight i can tab through the enemy and they will have me targeted, a gunship cant kill everyone lol had a game at week end where i went gunship there was 1 scout and 1 fighter constant on my *** all time, sometimes they killed me, sometimes i killed them, but my damage was way down from a normal ammount, so they stopped me, i spent most of the match fighting them same 2 guys meaning i wasnt killing their team mates, i was shut down.

 

Next match the other team went gunships and bombers all match so i swapped to scouts and fighters and spend match trying different attack patterns to drive them nuts, i spent ages just whizing in get few shots on one then onto next one, and next one, guess what i killed none of them but i had all their gunships targeting me, i did my job coz rest of my team managed to brake their lines while they tried to kill me, i didnt kill them, they didnt kill me but i stopped them.

 

sometimes u dont need 20kills of scouts, fighters, that 5 kills of a gunship can be a balance turner for the game.

 

tactics, spacial awareness, common sense, team work and understanding of each ships pro's and con's, these are what drives gsf and without them no matter what mods, game balances they do u will not do great without them things.

 

Dont always need to kill the gunship to stop him.

[Asbetos]

It hurts about as bad as a slug railgun

 

Not quite, it hurts much more:

T2 scout damage:

887,9 - Cluster missile

762x2=1524 - BLC

Total: 1524+887,9=2411,9

Accuracy: 97% (87% from BLC+10% from TT)

Tracking penalty: 0.5% per degree

Time: 1.3sec (lock-on time of Cluster missile, travel time is irrelevant)

 

Gunship damage:

1600 - Slug railgun

Total: 1600

Accuracy: 98%

Tracking penalty: 5% per degree

Time: 2.7sec

 

And that's without crits which happen quite a bit more frequently for a scout than a GS.

And that's without evasion which scout has much more of.

And that's without applying the tracking penalty which is much worse for a gunship.

[Callly]

Keep chasing him, the skill required for a gunship to survive a scout attack is much higher than the skill required for a scout to kill a gunship. Unless he's an ace he'll run out of engine power pretty fast and will be a sitting duck for anyone to blow to pieces.

 

no if i continue i get oneshoted by the capitalship... so i have to return fighting and wait for is return and then make him flee again. hoping my team has the time to clean the satelite.

[Asbetos]

no if i continue i get oneshoted by the capitalship... so i have to return fighting and wait for is return and then make him flee again. hoping my team has the time to clean the satelite.

 

And that's exactly what you, as a scout, are supposed to do. Are you playing a domination match to collect kills or collect points (yes, kills grant points but those are miserable compared to points granted by holding a sat)?

[Callly]

 

sometimes u dont need 20kills of scouts, fighters, that 5 kills of a gunship can be a balance turner for the game.

 

t.

 

 

 

so the game is unbalanced....if killing 5gunship help the team more then klling 10scout the game is not balanced. Thats all... so it need to be balanced or their number limited in a game.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Callly

[Asbetos]

so the game is unbalanced....if killing 5gunship help the team more then klling 10scout the game is not balanced. Thats all... so it need to be balanced or their number limited in a game.

 

No.

1 gunship when pressure by an equally skilled scout is completely useless.

1 scout who is pressured by an equally skilled scout is still doing damage to those around him because all he needs to fire and deal a decent amount of damage is 1 click while the gunship needs time to charge his shots. Yes, a gunship has BLCs as well as a scout, but it's far less maneuverable and doesn't have the tools the scout has (TT/BO) that actually make BLCs as deadly as they are.

[Ryuku-sama]

no if i continue i get oneshoted by the capitalship... so i have to return fighting and wait for is return and then make him flee again. hoping my team has the time to clean the satelite.

 

Well if you plan to go around a cap ship. Use a full DR build.. that's so funny to chase a GS in my bomber when they are fleeing to their capship just to die under y HLC while I still have more than enough time to get back to safety before CP runs out.

 

Seriously. If he went back to his cap ship. Go kill someone else, and watch for him when he will come out.

 

Oh sorry. It take a situationnal awareness that is unbalancing the game. So sorry...

[Callly]

No.

1 gunship when pressure by an equally skilled scout is completely useless.

1 scout who is pressured by an equally skilled scout is still doing damage to those around him because all he needs to fire and deal a decent amount of damage is 1 click while the gunship needs time to charge his shots. Yes, a gunship has BLCs as well as a scout, but it's far less maneuverable and doesn't have the tools the scout has (TT/BO) that actually make BLCs as deadly as they are.

 

but the scout pressuring the gunship is useless too no? if i pass all the game hunting the same gunship we just neutralised each other right? but it still a good trade for my team right? so... unbalanced. Thats it.

[Verain]

so the game is unbalanced....if killing 5gunship help the team more then klling 10scout the game is not balanced. Thats all...

 

Some faceless battlescout comes into forum, throws fit about gunship, practices his argumentative techniques instead of listening to veterans with actual insight. Specifically, the part about Matty's argument you pick out is lost without, you know, the context.

 

What he's saying is this: a gunship left out in the distance sniping a satellite might be deadly. A scout and a strike at the same distance might not matter at all. Going out and killing the gunship, versus killing the scout and the strike, can swing the game. Because gunships are all that matters? No, because of the context. Your node will often have a bomber on it. The gunship can whittle down the bomber, the scout and the strike run on a very different and slower clock. By eliminating just the gunship, you slow the clock down, and the clock is making you points- and as he says, you can eliminate the gunship just by chasing him, and while he is running, he is doing almost nothing. Meanwhile, if you were to put the same effort into killing the scout, you would TAKE LONGER to get the kill, during which the scout would STILL BE HELPING HIS TEAM. So because the gunship has very strong damage if left alone, but the scout and the strike have similar damage if being chased and hounded or not, swapping to the gunship is often wise.

 

And I'll go further: if the enemy team was composed of a gunship that does double the damage of a current gunship but has half the health, a type 1 gunship from live, and a gunship that does half the damage of a current gunship, but is invincible, it's obvious what to do- kill the offensive gunship, then the real one, and then tab out to get angry about the starman one. And this is just the slope on live extrapolated a bit- if a ship needs to be focused and left alone, and if that happens they deal steady damage (low dps, but consistent), and isn't very solid if attacked, then strategically, you should go for him first. Because he's the most powerful? No, not at all. Because going for him helps your team the most.

 

 

 

Look, lets be real: if you are playing your battlescout and telling yourself you are the underdog, that is a lie. The battlescout is probably the strongest ship in the game- it's certainly the best at dogfighting. An unreasonable number of players seem to pick out the top dogfighting ship, get good at it, and then come to the forums and attack everything about the game that isn't dogfighting. Often they will believe that they are better pilots than the strategic ships without dogfighting abilities that they can crush once in melee range.

 

What you should do, is master every ship- or at least every ship you consider good. Especially if you consider the ship "cheap". Even if you hate bombers or gunships or scouts, playing as one will let you understand how to better play against them- but more likely, you'll learn to play any role on the team.

 

And there are balance suggestions we've had. Here's a big thread where everything is still relevant:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=752949

 

As a community, we'd like to see a bit less burst, and a bit of a deeper meta. That's about all I can say about the whole group of players who contribute, but I can say that specifically, a lot of us would like to see the burst capability of the battle scout (and honestly, even the speed/sensors scout [type 1] ) brought down, but that has to come with some addressing of gunships, and those two would have to happen in the same patch. On the specific note, in that thread, we mostly chose to focus on distortion field missile lock break and how to change distortion to provide some defense against missiles without shutting them down so hard, top end burst from a slug railgun crit without hurting overall damage, and scout offensive systems being redesigned to provide a small passive bonus and to have the on-active boost decreased.

 

 

Are you able to join that kind of party, or is it just "I hate being sniped"?

[mattycutts]

so the game is unbalanced....if killing 5gunship help the team more then klling 10scout the game is not balanced. Thats all... so it need to be balanced or their number limited in a game.

 

the point i was making, sometimes dont worry bout kills and playing objectively can alter the way a game goes.

 

Running gs = hes stopped

Returning GS you attack, he dies great, he runs hes stopped. you have done ya job.

 

Next bit, limit number of gunships, are u for real? they cant code just one ship type limited meaning they have to limit all ship types, so one day you get 20 scouts all solo queue, grats you just destroyed gsf . get the picture.

 

do you have any understanding of a gunship, scoutt or anything about gunships? the devs are not going to put some mirical fix that makes u able to kill gunships in your easy way of thinking.

 

 

i can see you have no real understanding of gsf. i can imagine you being a very predictable opponent in matches and thats why your getting so frustrated, maybe its not the game that needs to change but you need to change.

 

Good day.

[Callly]

 

Seriously. If he went back to his cap ship. Go kill someone else, and watch for him when he will come out.

 

Oh sorry. It take a situationnal awareness that is unbalancing the game. So sorry...

 

well thats exactly what i'have said no? so why this? just a need for disrespect and etc?

[Callly]

the point i was making, sometimes dont worry bout kills and playing objectively can alter the way a game goes.

 

Running gs = hes stopped

Returning GS you attack, he dies great, he runs hes stopped. you have done ya job.

 

Next bit, limit number of gunships, are u for real? they cant code just one ship type limited meaning they have to limit all ship types, so one day you get 20 scouts all solo queue, grats you just destroyed gsf . get the picture.

 

do you have any understanding of a gunship, scoutt or anything about gunships? the devs are not going to put some mirical fix that makes u able to kill gunships in your easy way of thinking.

 

 

i can see you have no real understanding of gsf. i can imagine you being a very predictable opponent in matches and thats why your getting so frustrated, maybe its not the game that needs to change but you need to change.

 

Good day.

 

 

 

you're reaction is???? prehistorical? thats ridiculous. but that was my first point. GS is the easyway to get on top of the board. And nearly all the guy i saw defending this are the guy like you who are yelling on the forums. I'am one of the better pilote of my server. Well... what a surprise...

 

I'am not frustrated i just say its not balanced. and if i dont understand nothing if i'am predictable and etc. Can you explain me why i dont have any probleme when i'am play with a Gunship? maybe because a predictable and unskilled player can be effective in this kind of ship? maybe because they are op?

Edited September 22, 2014 by Callly

[Ryuku-sama]

well thats exactly what i'have said no? so why this? just a need for disrespect and etc?

 

GS at cap ship = no threat. You did your job. GJ.

 

Kill a GS, force it to run. Force it away from the node (25 km +). Problem is whiners normally don't see the GS coming back. Keeping tab of one GS is easy. Two is slightly harder. Three is hard. Four is nigh impossible for me. But I normally try to keep track of dangers so burst scouts, good pilots and gunships. But doing that takes a skill no beginners will think of. Situationnal awareness.

[mattycutts]

you're reaction is???? prehistorical? thats ridiculous. but that was my first point. GS is the easyway to get on top of the board. And nearly all the guy i saw defending this are the guy like you who are yelling on the forums. I'am one of the better pilote of my server. Well... what a surprise...

 

if you are struggling killing gunships and one of the best on ya server i hope they close ya server down and not merge it to mine lol

 

If your on my server then ya talking crap.

 

think i cover gunships coz i play gunships? i play every class coz in order to be better than the average player u need to know all the ships so i master everything. if they actually nerfed gunships they will be far too easy to kill. some weeks ill never touch a gs, i actually enjoy every class in gsf, well not over keen on being a bomber lol

 

What server u on? whats ya char name / faction? ill come to you. ill use what ever ship u want. and stock.

[Callly]

if you are struggling killing gunships and one of the best on ya server i hope they close ya server down and not merge it to mine lol

 

If your on my server then ya talking crap.

 

think i cover gunships coz i play gunships? i play every class coz in order to be better than the average player u need to know all the ships so i master everything. if they actually nerfed gunships they will be far too easy to kill. some weeks ill never touch a gs, i actually enjoy every class in gsf, well not over keen on being a bomber lol

 

What server u on? whats ya char name / faction? ill come to you. ill use what ever ship u want. and stock.

 

i never said "i am the best of my server..." i was talking about guy like you who need to say that kind of crap in every topic... and as i said your reaction is prehistorical and pathetic...

[Crazy-Wolf]

you're reaction is???? prehistorical? thats ridiculous. but that was my first point. GS is the easyway to get on top of the board. And nearly all the guy i saw defending this are the guy like you who are yelling on the forums. I'am one of the better pilote of my server. Well... what a surprise...

 

To be "on top of the board" is not the major goal. But it will be considered as such as long as the pilot with the most kills is "leading" the board. Especially in domination matches you get your points for other things. That is what everyone is trying to tell you. It doesn't matter wether you kill the GS you were chasing or wether he flees to a safe area like his own satellite, his capship. In both cases You! Have! Done! Your! Job!

Sometimes in TDMs I chase gunships and I finish the match with six kills and 5 deaths. Yet the match is won because their GS wasn't able to farm easy kills. In those games I am definetly not "top of the board" with my scout/strike, yet I have done my job. Match won. Part played. Mission Accomplished. Next One.

[mattycutts]

i never said "i am the best of my server..." i was talking about guy like you who need to say that kind of crap in every topic... and as i said your reaction is prehistorical and pathetic...

 

i never said im the best, i die lots too.

 

i dont understand, u have offered no valid reasons to your argument, what u have provided as been countered by other experienced players but not come back to any of them, so basically you are right and the experienced players are wrong is that what i get from what you say?

 

you say a gunship is over powered, we give ways to deal with them, your still arguing against what others say, if you cant and we can wouldnt that suggest its you that needs to change? up your game etc? would u rather the nerf classes to your level of skill? next week will it be bombers? scouts? i dont dislike newbies to gsf i actually try to help them, what i hate is closed minded players with little skill or understanding and expect everything for free, or nerfed to their level.

 

every few weeks we see another GS is god mode, over powered, farts lighting out, thread, but they all end same way, 2-3 saying "yes gs op" with 20+ people saying no and this is why, then that thread gets berried with the rest.

[Verain]

Can you explain me why i dont have any probleme when i'am play with a Gunship?

 

I would assume you are better on a gunship than a scout. Not every player has your experience.

[Callly]

To be "on top of the board" is not the major goal. But it will be considered as such as long as the pilot with the most kills is "leading" the board. Especially in domination matches you get your points for other things. That is what everyone is trying to tell you. It doesn't matter wether you kill the GS you were chasing or wether he flees to a safe area like his own satellite, his capship. In both cases You! Have! Done! Your! Job!

Sometimes in TDMs I chase gunships and I finish the match with six kills and 5 deaths. Yet the match is won because their GS wasn't able to farm easy kills. In those games I am definetly not "top of the board" with my scout/strike, yet I have done my job. Match won. Part played. Mission Accomplished. Next One.

 

 

Yeah i understand that. and thats why i say "unbalanced" because i'am stuck often in this kind of game and yeah cool we win but is that funny? as i say sooner. Killing Gunship is like protecting the door or a point in ground pvp. You have to do it. its not that hard... but yeah boring. and playing a Gunship its worst....you just click and put you mouse on ship that try to play the game. and bang he's dead. that was... hu boring? and then a guy come to you. you cant really fight back so barrel roll to be in range of your friends and they kills the guy.

[Callly]

i never said im the best, i die lots too.

 

i dont understand, u have offered no valid reasons to your argument, what u have provided as been countered by other experienced players but not come back to any of them, so basically you are right and the experienced players are wrong is that what i get from what you say?

 

you say a gunship is over powered, we give ways to deal with them, your still arguing against what others say, if you cant and we can wouldnt that suggest its you that needs to change? up your game etc? would u rather the nerf classes to your level of skill? next week will it be bombers? scouts? i dont dislike newbies to gsf i actually try to help them, what i hate is closed minded players with little skill or understanding and expect everything for free, or nerfed to their level.

 

every few weeks we see another GS is god mode, over powered, farts lighting out, thread, but they all end same way, 2-3 saying "yes gs op" with 20+ people saying no and this is why, then that thread gets berried with the rest.

 

 

20+ lol... and yeah experienced player are right in most part. its just a different point of view. But for me GS need more attention need more time and even a bad player in Gunship can be dangerous and we cannot ignore him. because yeah a bad player in a scout do what? deal 5k of damage and maybe 1kill? you dont need to worry about him. the same player in a GS can kill 5 to 10 people and dealt 40k+ damage. you have to hunt him. its not hard but you have to take the time to do it

 

For you its ok. for me its unbalanced.

[Crazy-Wolf]

Yeah i understand that. and thats why i say "unbalanced" because i'am stuck often in this kind of game and yeah cool we win but is that funny?

 

Ok, since fun is a personal decision, I won't argue with you about that. All I can say, for me if is. The GS pilot is sitting there lining up shots, he can't cause of me....yeah that's fun. I also enjoy good dogfights. I really do. But ruining a gunshipper's killstreak is just hilarious....at least for me that is

[mattycutts]

20+ lol... and yeah experienced player are right in most part. its just a different point of view. But for me GS need more attention need more time and even a bad player in Gunship can be dangerous and we cannot ignore him. because yeah a bad player in a scout do what? deal 5k of damage and maybe 1kill? you dont need to worry about him. the same player in a GS can kill 5 to 10 people and dealt 40k+ damage. you have to hunt him. its not hard but you have to take the time to do it

 

For you its ok. for me its unbalanced.

 

thats the thing, a bad player in a gunship is minimal threat to experienced players in scouts, fighters etc, ive seen them sorts, i can sit behind a base and they kill turrets thats it, they never think ill not kill turrets ill use ion rail gun and arch his shields dry ready for the kill, they never move, they are very predictable, i find noobs in gunships easyier than noobs in scouts at least they try to fly round bases slowing u down capping, a noob gunship sits at 15k does nothing till a easy shot presents its self, but we dont give them that.