GTN Prcing Scams

[Mlnvifun]

I don't mind people charging what they want for an item, what I wanted to flag was that there are a number of people who are deliberately pricing their items so that they may appear to be the lowest priced item of that type on the list when you sort, but in fact due to the way the pricing is structured they are actually 1,800,007 (per mat, or similar pricing structure whereas the next lowest price is 1900 or 2000)- so that they appear on an initial price sort as the lowest priced item when in fact they are costing millions.

 

Not really sure how they would be doing that as I have stacked items on the GTN atm, and whilst setting up the sale I didn't see the unit price, only the total. It wasn't until I applied them to my sell list that I was able to see the unit price.

[Starglitter]

Mmm...

 

I would think the issue with how some things are priced is leading towards a scam, it is not so much as the item is over priced, but actually how it is priced that becomes deceptive, and thus scam material.

 

Say you been buying a mat for 2K a pop, and you see "1,999,000", because of the poor fonts used in gtn, many folks to include myself are deceived to think its 1,999.00 and thus like sheep to the slaughter: we buy.

 

Now once again because of poor fonts, lag and what not, I can see a person who honestly means to sell the item at 1,999 make a mistake and add a zero or two (but no more); the fact that 3 zeros were added, is indicative of intent not oversight.

 

I always thought the definition of scam is when a person purposely deceives another person for a profit.

 

So in the case of deceptive pricing as explained above, I would think it could qualify as a scam.

 

Sue

 

Ps: Fixing the sorter in GTN would be a good thing, it seems to behave chaotically all the time and it is highly undependable. A low price to high price auto sort would be an intelligent default as well

[LyraineAlei]

When looking at prices for mats, I have looked at the individual item price, and then to the asking price. If the asking price is too much, I will buy fewer mats at a higher per unit rate, for a lower total cost.

 

The GTN's auto sort is newest to oldest. Yes, some people do try to over price things just to trick those who see it first and forget to sort. Yes that is mean, but if the price is right right there in front of you...

 

As for the wonky font thing, just sort and resort until you are certain the price is what you want to pay. Look at all the information available. Yes, doing that is work, and yes it is enabling the price jackers, but you have the tools to protect yourself just like in real life.

 

And if you are really worried, turn the warning popups back on, and deal with the double checking before hitting yes. You might even see the prices better.

[Orizuru]

Mmm...

 

I would think the issue with how some things are priced is leading towards a scam, it is not so much as the item is over priced, but actually how it is priced that becomes deceptive, and thus scam material.

 

Say you been buying a mat for 2K a pop, and you see "1,999,000", because of the poor fonts used in gtn, many folks to include myself are deceived to think its 1,999.00 and thus like sheep to the slaughter: we buy.

 

Now once again because of poor fonts, lag and what not, I can see a person who honestly means to sell the item at 1,999 make a mistake and add a zero or two (but no more); the fact that 3 zeros were added, is indicative of intent not oversight.

 

I always thought the definition of scam is when a person purposely deceives another person for a profit.

 

So in the case of deceptive pricing as explained above, I would think it could qualify as a scam.

 

Sue

 

Ps: Fixing the sorter in GTN would be a good thing, it seems to behave chaotically all the time and it is highly undependable. A low price to high price auto sort would be an intelligent default as well

 

I find it odd that you say the font is the problem and then say a different default sort order is the solution.

 

I'm not sure how you could mistake 1,999,000 as 1,999.00 either. The game currency doesn't even have a concept of change or fractions of a credit to rationalize a decimal in the pricing of anything on the GTN.

[Mlnvifun]

I find it odd that you say the font is the problem and then say a different default sort order is the solution.

 

I'm not sure how you could mistake 1,999,000 as 1,999.00 either. The game currency doesn't even have a concept of change or fractions of a credit to rationalize a decimal in the pricing of anything on the GTN.

 

The decimal does in fact happen on the unit price

 

That happens when the number of units is not divisible as a whole number from the total price e.g. 4 items = 7 credits total price would make the unit price = 1.75 credits

 

Though I agree with you on mistaking 1,999,000 as 1,999.00 since the decimal would not appear in such an instance, for people to only see 2 0's on the end would make it look like this 199,900 so it can't be the font either

Edited September 19, 2014 by Mlnvifun

[Orizuru]

That happens when the number of units is not divisible as a whole number from the total price e.g. 4 items = 7 credits total price would make the unit price = 1.75 credits

 

Ah, thank you for clearing that up for me.

[Mlnvifun]

Ah, thank you for clearing that up for me.

 

No problem:)

[DOHboy]

As I and others have said in the other thread(s) about this topic.

 

the ONLY way this works, is if people confuse , for . (which in some cultures it is) and TOTALLY forget the fact that this has always and (probably) will always list money only out to the 100ths place (.01)

 

They could invent their own numbering system/language and you could always tell the "magnitude" of the value simply by looking at the # of digits to the right of any separator.

 

so whether it is a "," "." or ":" just count the number of digits to the right. 3 = magnitude 2 = decimal.

 

1&000%000*99 = 1.000.000^99 = 1,000,000.99

[branmakmuffin]

I get that message 4 the vendors, but not the GTN.

You get a confirmation dialog before you buy off the GTN. You are either lying, misremembering or there is an option to disable it and you did that (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and go with option 2 or 3).

[Elracor]

An option to set a min&max cost PER ITEM (current min&max only looks at total price) would solve this issue for me at least.

[Mlnvifun]

You get a confirmation dialog before you buy off the GTN. You are either lying, misremembering or there is an option to disable it and you did that (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and go with option 2 or 3).

 

I said myself that I had turned it off in post #23

[RedPilot]

Just want to add my vote that because we already have an "Are you sure?" confirmation when paying more than a certain amount to a vendor, to add that for the GTN. We could have a checkbox for "Never show this option again" that we could turn back on in settings.

[LyraineAlei]

An option to set a min&max cost PER ITEM (current min&max only looks at total price) would solve this issue for me at least.

 

"Price Per Unit" is available. Right next to "Price".

 

Already there. Now if we had a sorting method to go by number of units (say we only want to buy stacks of 25), that would be great.

[branmakmuffin]

I said myself that I had turned it off in post #23

So then if it causes a problem to not a confirmation dialog, that's your choice.

[Orizuru]

"Price Per Unit" is available. Right next to "Price".

 

Already there. Now if we had a sorting method to go by number of units (say we only want to buy stacks of 25), that would be great.

 

I believe he means in the filters, not the column. While the columns display both total price and unit price and both columns can be sorted, the filters on the left side of the GTN window only allow you to set a min/max price in the filter that evaluates the value in the Total Price column.

 

I can see how that would be frustrating because when you are shopping for crafting mats. Typically you would probably have a number of the item in mind that you need to for whatever you want to craft, and you want to search the GTN for the best price per unit regardless of the number of units in the stack. However, if you are using the filters to search for listings with a price between a min and max value you are willing to pay, it only works if you assume there are a specific number of units in the stack, and when you are shopping the number of units per stack is not something the buyer can control.

 

For example, I want to buy Beans. I'm willing to pay anywhere from 50 to 250 credits per unit. If I put that in the filter, I will only see listings where the total cost is between those numbers. So a stack of 10 beans with a unit cost of 75 credits won't show up in my search because the stack's total cost is 750 credits.

 

This also doesn't help people avoid over-paying if they aren't watching carefully. If I try the same search again, but this time I assume that there are stacks of 10 that I'm willing to pay anywhere between 500 and 2500 credits, then my search results could show me stacks of 10 with a cost of 75 per unit (750 total cost), while the next line in the search results could be a single Bean with a unit price of 750 credits.

 

The way the filters work in this regard heavily favors the sellers and makes it very challenging for a buyer to find the items they want for the lowest price, and also helps me to understand the problem the OP was originally trying to point out. I still think it's something that the player needs to take responsibility for by paying attention to the number of units and the unit price before they rush to click the button to buy the item, but I can also better understand how people are making these very expensive mistakes now.

 

A lot of these problems could be solved though by changing the Min/Max credits filters to evaluate against the Unit Price column instead of the Total Price column. Buyers would feel confident that they are getting the best price possible and people setting outlandish prices would see get far less views on their listings from players who make good use of the filters.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Orizuru

[Mlnvifun]

So then if it causes a problem to not a confirmation dialog, that's your choice.

 

It doesn't cause me any problem, where did you get the idea that it did?

[PetFish]

Pricing something high is NOT a scam. What's so difficult about understanding what a scam really is?

 

Here are some actual scams:

• Paying for something but receiving something else.
  
• Calling an old person claiming to be a long-lost grandchild who needs money.
  
• Winning a million dollars but you have to send them $5,000 first.
  
• Emails from Nigeria.
  

 

And I'll ask again: Why is it a scam if you overpay for something but it's NOT a scam when you pay 500 for something that should be 500,000?

 

According to your definition of 'scam', you're scamming the seller cuz you know it's the wrong price but it benefits you so you happily buy it then brag about it in general chat.

[Elracor]

"Price Per Unit" is available. Right next to "Price".

 

Already there. Now if we had a sorting method to go by number of units (say we only want to buy stacks of 25), that would be great.

 

Yeah, that's not what I'm talking about. Orizuru got it right.

Edited September 19, 2014 by MFollin

[ArchonGamer]

Pricing something high is NOT a scam. What's so difficult about understanding what a scam really is?

 

Here are some actual scams:

• Paying for something but receiving something else.
  
• Calling an old person claiming to be a long-lost grandchild who needs money.
  
• Winning a million dollars but you have to send them $5,000 first.
  
• Emails from Nigeria.
  

 

And I'll ask again: Why is it a scam if you overpay for something but it's NOT a scam when you pay 500 for something that should be 500,000?

 

According to your definition of 'scam', you're scamming the seller cuz you know it's the wrong price but it benefits you so you happily buy it then brag about it in general chat.

 

It's a scam because when you sort it it gives the illusion that their over priced items are the cheapest and as there is no confirmation you can get hoses. Like I just did when I paid 6,500,000 million credits (90% of all my money) for 10 Zonolite.

[Cassianus]

There are lot of problems in current GTN, and the lack of scam protection is a significant issue. There are several places where GTN interface could help player but it doesn't. Most important, in my opinion, are:

 

1. GTN (like whole SWTOR interface) doesn't respect the regional settings from user's Control Panel, it always uses North American standards. In particular, we have the decimal divider "." and groups divider "," in all places. In many European countries the dividers are different, like "," as decimal one and " " for groups. Such discrepancy can confuse inattentive players. Moreover, the visual difference in the GTN interface between comma and dot is hardly noticeable, because of small font size. This can result in mistakes when player reads the value of single item in the stack (with decimal values) at glance. Solutions:

• Usage the regional (national) standards from the Control Panel for decimal and groups dividers. More radical solution, of course, would be in usage of regional settings everywhere (including the time format: AM/PM are uncommon in Europe, 24h system is more convenient here, but it's far beyond the discussed problem).
  
• Usage the different font style for decimal values, like italic or colour: instead of 123,456.78 should be 123,456.78 or, better, 123,456.78. This will greatly reduce the "glance" mistakes.
  

 

2. When we buy a great amount of something from NPC traders, we often see a warning, whether we really want to do this, and a notice, that it's a final transaction. Some people count this warning excessive, but for many others it's good. The similar system should be implemented in GTN as well. Player should be able to set, whether the warning will be shown or not (yes by default) and the threshold of transaction, for example, 50K credits (very individual). As a result, this will prevent the occasional spending of large amount of credits in GTN. Of course, player still will be able to buy items by mistake, but with less detriment for the pocket.

 

3. Counter-scam measures cannot be effective without neutralisation of the scammers themselves. In common chat, we have an option to /report and /ignore the annoying player. I am completely sure that the same approach is suitable in GTN. Player should be able to add the particular seller in the ignore list, and after that any offers from that seller will never be shown in player's GTN interface. As a result, everybody will be able to clear GTN from dishonest persons. The option to report the scammer inside GTN should exist as well.

[LyraineAlei]

I have the price confirmation pop up enabled. It tells me the price of what I am buying at a larger size.

 

Enable it and don't buy at a glance. In IRL, I know what I need to buy, and then I look at what is there, including the price, and then decide "need, or want" and check the pricing of the next closest item.

[MagikFingerz]

There are lot of problems in current GTN, and the lack of scam protection is a significant issue. There are several places where GTN interface could help player but it doesn't. Most important, in my opinion, are:

 

1. GTN (like whole SWTOR interface) doesn't respect the regional settings from user's Control Panel, it always uses North American standards. In particular, we have the decimal divider "." and groups divider "," in all places. In many European countries the dividers are different, like "," as decimal one and " " for groups. Such discrepancy can confuse inattentive players. Moreover, the visual difference in the GTN interface between comma and dot is hardly noticeable, because of small font size. This can result in mistakes when player reads the value of single item in the stack (with decimal values) at glance. Solutions:

• Usage the regional (national) standards from the Control Panel for decimal and groups dividers. More radical solution, of course, would be in usage of regional settings everywhere (including the time format: AM/PM are uncommon in Europe, 24h system is more convenient here, but it's far beyond the discussed problem).
  
• Usage the different font style for decimal values, like italic or colour: instead of 123,456.78 should be 123,456.78 or, better, 123,456.78. This will greatly reduce the "glance" mistakes.
  

 

2. When we buy a great amount of something from NPC traders, we often see a warning, whether we really want to do this, and a notice, that it's a final transaction. Some people count this warning excessive, but for many others it's good. The similar system should be implemented in GTN as well. Player should be able to set, whether the warning will be shown or not (yes by default) and the threshold of transaction, for example, 50K credits (very individual). As a result, this will prevent the occasional spending of large amount of credits in GTN. Of course, player still will be able to buy items by mistake, but with less detriment for the pocket.

 

3. Counter-scam measures cannot be effective without neutralisation of the scammers themselves. In common chat, we have an option to /report and /ignore the annoying player. I am completely sure that the same approach is suitable in GTN. Player should be able to add the particular seller in the ignore list, and after that any offers from that seller will never be shown in player's GTN interface. As a result, everybody will be able to clear GTN from dishonest persons. The option to report the scammer inside GTN should exist as well.

 

1. Or people could just be more attentive. It will actually help them later in life, as opposed to having all kinds of safeguards in place for whenever they do something rash or impulsive.

 

2. If the poster above me is right, then it's already possible to enable this.

 

3. No. No, no, no. Nobody should be able to report someone for GTN activities. If someone wants to sell a mat for a high price, that's THEIR RIGHT as a seller regardless of how ridiculous the price is. Not to mention how severely this could be misused.

[XiamaraSimi]

 

3. No. No, no, no. Nobody should be able to report someone for GTN activities. If someone wants to sell a mat for a high price, that's THEIR RIGHT as a seller regardless of how ridiculous the price is. Not to mention how severely this could be misused.

 

This. What is to prevent some "Trade Mogul" from abusing it against anyone else selling against him? Or what if omeone decides he wants a rancor mount, 5 are up for between 5-10m but he thinks they shoukdnt charge more then 400k because that's the most credits he has has ever had so reports them all in a fit of pique. Or some troll just gets bored and decides to report people willy nilly just tio be a douchebag? Potential for abuse is waaaaaaaaaaay to strong.

[Theeko]

What I think the Gtn should is what that WoW mod does for WoW imo, so you know what your intending to buy. (I think the Mod gathers data from all past sales of the AH in WoW too and just updates iteself with each transaction of that item going from high to low)

 

Green = Below normal, Blue = Semi below normal, Yellow = Average, Red = Above average.

 

So I think Swtor should really do something like what that WoW mod does, to show different color schemes for the items being sold imo.

[Theeko]

And I'll ask again: Why is it a scam if you overpay for something but it's NOT a scam when you pay 500 for something that should be 500,000?

 

According to your definition of 'scam', you're scamming the seller cuz you know it's the wrong price but it benefits you so you happily buy it then brag about it in general chat.

 

Its kind of easy whose fault that really is. FYI: Button Called Shift + Left Click = Name in Filter (Doh )

Edited October 25, 2014 by Theeko