My issues with the Forged Alliances storyline [spoilers]

[Vazili]

So, let me begin by saying that I'm a long time fan of Bioware generally. Their recent history has somewhat shaken my faith in their storytelling, but I thoroughly enjoyed most of the Bioware library including the KOTOR storylines and the class quests here in TOR. That being said, I wanted to just voice my objections/problems with the current forged alliances story. Particularly the treatment Revan has received as I think it does a disservice to the character in general and is generally inconsistent with the character that Bioware established for him. I'll preface this all by saying that I know we don't have all the details regarding the story or how it's going to play out, but with the exception of perhaps one way, anyway it plays out involving Revan seems contrived and stupid to me.

 

KOTOR Revan

To fully understand my thoughts, I thought we'd need to establish the character of Revan as he has existed in Bioware lore. Again, this is my personal view having played the games, so feel free to disagree with my interpretation, but this is what informs my opinion. So, in KOTOR we meet/are told about Revan as a jedi knight and ultimately get to play as him and shape his personality. We know he was a dynamic, successful, charismatic leader of a group of jedi that were bothered by the inaction of the Jedi Council in response to the Mandalorian threat. We know he was a skilled force user and jedi knight. We also know he was a brilliant tactician and strategist based on his ability to pick apart both the Mandalorians and, later, the Republic. Ultimately, it was his desire to save the Republic which led him down the path (Yoda might say the quick and easy path) that lead to the star forge and his falling to the dark side. Then the events of KOTOR take place and we know the established canon ending is that Revan returned to the light and helped dismantle the Sith empire he'd created and shut down the star forge. At the end of KOTOR, Revan sails off into the galaxy to confront an even greater evil.

 

The Revan detailed there was amazing. He was crafted by the player into whatever image they wanted and the only "tweaking" that Bioware did was to establish a canon ending to the game, which is of course relatively necessary to have a sequel or any sort of established lore. Then TOR came along.

 

Revan Pre-FA

I'll preface by saying I was not a fan of Revan being included in TOR at all as a character. If anything, I think he should have received the same treatment as the "Promised Land Settlers" on Taris received with a cool story where we learn his ultimate fate, but by the time TOR rolls around he's dead and gone. Also, we never see him without the mask because we want to preserve player choice. Bioware opted to go a different direction.

 

Instead we discover that Revan has been imprisoned by the Emperor and influencing him so that he isn't quite so evil (there is a greater backstory to discover there but I don't want to ruin class quest stuff). The republic then frees Revan and he sets out on a one-man quest for vengeance against the Empire. This culminates in the Empire flashpoint called the Foundry where a strike team of Imperials defeats Revan and he explodes in some sort of purple energy, presumably dead (if only it were true).

 

Overall this isn't the worst way to include Revan if he had to have been included. It's generally in line with his previously established character in that he decided to fight a great evil (the Emperor) and went right back to it after he was freed. Ultimately he failed, but that sort of a quasi-tragic end is ok for him. He died fighting for a cause he believed in. Also, as a brief aside, it really bothered me that they had Revan not have a mask in the Republic flashpoint. What? Did I just design him wrong back then? Why couldn't he have just been in a mask? Then Forged Alliances bumbles onto the scene.

 

Revan in FA

Ok, so this is where it starts to get kind of dumb. So apparently Revan didn't die when the Imperials attacked him or he did and then he resurrected somehow. Not off to a great start in terms of how believable the story is, but it somehow manages to get even more convoluted. Initially Revan eschewed the Revanites because he thought it was weird that people worshiped him as essentially a god. Now, for reasons, he has decided to take them over. All to achieve his goal of....um....well...I mean he has to have a goal right? He specifically said he was going to finish what he started. It was in this cool trailer and everything. But I, for the life of me, can't imagine what it is. I mean he was apparently building an infinite army for some purpose. To take over the galaxy? Is that what he is talking about? Why now? He snapped out of that delusion years ago. To defeat the Empire? If that's the case, then why is he hostile to the Republic teams? Additionally, if he is a "good guy" why is he using bits of the Star Forge which we know is evil? His motives make no sense for me and I have no idea what his goal is. I don't know if this was meant to be mysterious or something but it's really just kind of dumb. Having the Revanites spring some elaborate scheme would have been kind of cliche, but it may have made sense, but to have this big thing of Revan at the helm takes it from cliche to just idiotic and its where we start to see a real divergence from the original Revan character.

 

First, and I've touched on this already, is that originally, as any good character does, Revan had a clear motive for what he was doing and a clear goal in mind. He wanted to beat the Mandalorians so he rallied Jedi to his cause against the wishes of the Council. We can argue about whether those motives were good and whether the goal was appropriate all we want but it was at the very least logically consistent. It fit with his character of a brash, idealistic Jedi that didn't want to sit on his hands. A jedi that hadn't been tempered by years of experience and maybe was a bit too caught up in the nostalgia of the stories of the old conflicts between the light side and dark side. By the end of KOTOR, Revan had grown as a character to become more tempered and reasonable. He wasn't brash and idealistic but calm and collected. His adventures had taught him the value of looking at the horizon instead of the ground right in front of his feet. In the Forged Alliances storyline that all gets kind of thrown out the window. He doesn't have a clear motive for what he's doing, we have no idea what his goal is other than apparently it's something he started that he plans to finish, and his behavior isn't something that a calm, collected and reasonable individual would do. For God's sake, he cruises into the atmosphere in a huge starship to rain hell-fire down on a planet to kill 4 people.

 

Secondly, he is apparently no longer leading from the front to be inspiring and stand up for his convictions (whatever they are now). Instead he has what might be the most cartoonish duo to date do all of the leg work while he cools his heels and...I'm not sure. Maybe strokes a cat while cackling maniacally? I about lost it when, at the end of the Manaan flashpoint, they jointly go "You may have destroyed this base, but we have thousands more!" or something to that effect. I mentally read in a moustache twirl and "muahahahahahahahahahaha!" after I heard it. It just seems so unlike the Revan from before. The Revan that we all grew to love in the original game. He isn't be inspiring, well-reasoned, or even just standing up for convictions no matter how stupid. He's steepling his fingers in the background while his incompetent subordinates give long-winded speeches that expose their grand plan to the enemy.

 

Summarily, I just can't buy that this new guy is Revan, or if he is then it's a ridiculous departure from the character. The whole Revan lost his memory thing was kind of cliche, but it worked in the overall story. Now, Revan has lost his memory, had it restored, been imprisoned, freed from imprisonment, was defeated a second time in his attempt to topple the Empire, died apparently and has now risen again (presumably on the third day after descending into Hell to defeat Death before returning to the galaxy to found a new heaven and a new earth.)

 

Conclusion

So, in conclusion, I just think this continued use of Revan is stupid. It's Bioware pissing all over what was once a well-written character. I honestly don't know why they do it unless there is pressure to put a big and familiar name on the next expansion so that it will sell. So, the character we all helped shape and craft in our own unique way is now being reduced to a cackling, moustache-twirling, caricature. I know that in the grand scheme of things it probably doesn't matter, but it just saddens me personally as I always thought Revan, and the KOTOR storyline in general, was really well done. I just wish they weren't running roughshod over it now.

 

TL;DR: I think the new storyline, and his inclusion in TOR in general, is ruining/has ruined Revan's character for the reasons listed above.

[idnewton]

 

I can't say I fully understand the FA story arc as I haven't done Manaan or Rakata Prime on the Republic side, but my guess is that because the Flashpoints are essentially the same and because Bioware is lazy, Revan *probably* shows up in a Star Destroyer and attacks on the Republic version too. If that is the case, I would recommend eventually turning the story around.

 

Essentially, the way I see it, most everyone (except the people who wasted hundreds of dollars farming cartel packs for the items) likes Revan, for obvious reasons. Making him the main villain seems to me like a really, really bad idea. If anything, the story should end with both factions allying with each other and with Revan to confront the Emperor, who is the ultimate villain anyways. This would make sense from an Imperial perspective since the Emperor doesn't actually have the Empire's or the Sith Order's good in mind. For him, they're technically just a means to an end (his galaxy-wide consumption ritual). If the Empire caught wind of that, from Revan or from something or someone else, that would be a pretty strong motive for them to ally with the Republic. As insane as that might sound, it's happened before (both in FA and when dealing with the Dread Masters).

 

[Darkelefantos]

Revan in FA

Ok, so this is where it starts to get kind of dumb. So apparently Revan didn't die when the Imperials attacked him or he did and then he resurrected somehow. Not off to a great start in terms of how believable the story is, but it somehow manages to get even more convoluted.

Much weirder things have happened in Star Wars, Revan not dying in the Foundry is basically harmless in comparison. Not sure how much you know about the EU, but just throwing this out there.

Initially Revan eschewed the Revanites because he thought it was weird that people worshiped him as essentially a god. Now, for reasons, he has decided to take them over. All to achieve his goal of....um....well...I mean he has to have a goal right? He specifically said he was going to finish what he started. It was in this cool trailer and everything. But I, for the life of me, can't imagine what it is. I mean he was apparently building an infinite army for some purpose. To take over the galaxy? Is that what he is talking about? Why now? He snapped out of that delusion years ago. To defeat the Empire? If that's the case, then why is he hostile to the Republic teams?

His goal is to stop the Emperor. That's what it has been for more than 300 years, and I'm not sure why you didn't arrive at this conclusion yet. It's the only logical option, really.

Secondly, he is apparently no longer leading from the front to be inspiring and stand up for his convictions (whatever they are now). Instead he has what might be the most cartoonish duo to date do all of the leg work while he cools his heels and...I'm not sure. Maybe strokes a cat while cackling maniacally? I about lost it when, at the end of the Manaan flashpoint, they jointly go "You may have destroyed this base, but we have thousands more!" or something to that effect. I mentally read in a moustache twirl and "muahahahahahahahahahaha!" after I heard it. It just seems so unlike the Revan from before. The Revan that we all grew to love in the original game. He isn't be inspiring, well-reasoned, or even just standing up for convictions no matter how stupid. He's steepling his fingers in the background while his incompetent subordinates give long-winded speeches that expose their grand plan to the enemy.

We never saw how he worked as a Sith Lord at all, which is what he basically reverted back to now. Maybe this is not new to the character, just the player? Plus, if everyone, including your greatest enemy, considers you dead, why would you expose yourself before the time has come?

 

I'm sorry, I'm too lazy and tired for a more detailed reply.

[Vazili]

Much weirder things have happened in Star Wars, Revan not dying in the Foundry is basically harmless in comparison. Not sure how much you know about the EU, but just throwing this out there.

 

I'm not saying that it's an entirely new thing. It was mostly just poking fun at the soap opera element of it. But I agree, the whole "he wasn't really dead thing" isn't the part that annoys me most. Other than that I wish he had been dead this entire time.

 

His goal is to stop the Emperor. That's what it has been for more than 300 years, and I'm not sure why you didn't arrive at this conclusion yet. It's the only logical option, really.

 

If this is the case, then why isn't he allying with the Republic? He did it before, like, not that long ago at all. What event has transpired that has caused him to suddenly shift to being hostile? Additionally, if that's his only logical goal then he certainly isn't going about it in a logical way. Stealing from whoever, allies be damned, I'm going to create a weird cyborg army? Seems like he tried that once and it failed. At least the cyborg army bit.

 

We never saw how he worked as a Sith Lord at all, which is what he basically reverted back to now. Maybe this is not new to the character, just the player? Plus, if everyone, including your greatest enemy, considers you dead, why would you expose yourself before the time has come?

 

My point isn't working from the shadows is bad, but more that in combination with everything else it makes him seem less like a shadowy genius mastermind and more like a top-hat-wearing, mustache twirler

Edited September 17, 2014 by Vazili

[Slowpokeking]

Would it have been better if canon Revan is a woman?

[Pietrastor]

Would it have been better if canon Revan is a woman?

Would've been better if they just let us pick his gender and general alingment using couple dialogue wheels beforehand, just like it was done in KOTOR 2. I get the need to establish the canon gender for more general Star Wars purpouses, but this is a video game and allowing both versions to exist is not a problem here. Not to mention that as a sequel to KOTOR 2, which it is regardless if people hope for KOTOR 3 one day, it should've been a no-brainer. It's a piece of cake for Bioware to pull it, Revan appears in whole 10 cutscenes or less in game, minimal coding/voice effort to include both genders/alingments. Esp. at the time the game had practically unlimited budget during developement. Too late for all of that now, but they could've easily done it.

[BrianDavion]

and every cutscene revan appers in is in a flashpoint. customizing revan would akward at best

[kirinke]

Also, you gotta remember, after 300 years playing mental patty-cake with the Emperor, who by all accounts is the star wars equivalent of an eldritch horror, his mind probably isn't in the best shape (not to mention whatever the Emperor was doing to him when he was feeling bored, ick). Plus with everything the Republic did to him (and didn't do for him), I'd say his hostility towards everyone at this point isn't too unnatural or unreasonable. In that perspective, his actions is understandable.

 

More or less he's crazier than a womp rat that's been stuck inside a broken Hutt 'fresher too long.

Edited September 17, 2014 by kirinke

[GrandLordMenace]

Look at it this way: Revan sees the empire as an extension of the emperor, his mortal enemy. Empire must die. Republic has gotten in his way a multitude of times, and he doesn't believe the slowpoke way of the Jedi and the Republic of "negotiating" and slowly harassing the empire as useful. I don't think that the Republic in his hands would've fought this longass war, he would've just bumrushed and ended it.

 

Do you THINK the Republic would ever truly go for a Sith genocide? Nada, but Revan would, and the Republic probably wouldn't allow him in the long run. Therefore, the Republic cannot get in the way of his plan of destroying the Sith.

[kirinke]

Like I said, good or evil and after all he's been through, Revan is nuts, koo-koo, crazier than a squirrel on Red Bull and in desperate need of some alone time in a padded room.

[Pietrastor]

and every cutscene revan appers in is in a flashpoint. customizing revan would akward at best

Would it be? They could just have a tech that would fire up male/female foice files from each players' computers based on previous choices for example, same with character models.

[MichaelKorniat]

Since Disney bought Star Wars, my understanding is that all the EU story lines and characters are finished. The return of Revan in 3693 BBY might be some of the last EU plot development we ever get.

 

I would rather have some weak cutscenes and questionable plot motivations than nothing at all from the story of Revan in the future.

[BrianDavion]

Since Disney bought Star Wars, my understanding is that all the EU story lines and characters are finished. The return of Revan in 3693 BBY might be some of the last EU plot development we ever get.

 

I would rather have some weak cutscenes and questionable plot motivations than nothing at all from the story of Revan in the future.

 

eh it's possiable revan could be canonized after the fact. I view the current EU as being roughly where "Star Wars marvel comics" was. they'll mine it for ideas and ignore what they dislike

[Vazili]

Also, you gotta remember, after 300 years playing mental patty-cake with the Emperor, who by all accounts is the star wars equivalent of an eldritch horror, his mind probably isn't in the best shape (not to mention whatever the Emperor was doing to him when he was feeling bored, ick). Plus with everything the Republic did to him (and didn't do for him), I'd say his hostility towards everyone at this point isn't too unnatural or unreasonable. In that perspective, his actions is understandable.

 

More or less he's crazier than a womp rat that's been stuck inside a broken Hutt 'fresher too long.

 

Look at it this way: Revan sees the empire as an extension of the emperor, his mortal enemy. Empire must die. Republic has gotten in his way a multitude of times, and he doesn't believe the slowpoke way of the Jedi and the Republic of "negotiating" and slowly harassing the empire as useful. I don't think that the Republic in his hands would've fought this longass war, he would've just bumrushed and ended it.

 

Do you THINK the Republic would ever truly go for a Sith genocide? Nada, but Revan would, and the Republic probably wouldn't allow him in the long run. Therefore, the Republic cannot get in the way of his plan of destroying the Sith.

 

If this was the case, why didn't he go nuts after he was freed from prison? That would be a more logical place. Instead, he calmly went and informed the Jedi Council of everything he knew about the Empire before going off on his own personal crusade. The Republic never helped him, but there was never any indication he even asked for help.

 

That means that his insanity had to have taken place sometime between his defeat in the Foundry and now and there's been no buildup as to why other than he "died" or something. Which somehow made him go crazy? Crazy enough that all the stuff that hasn't affected him for the last 300 years now suddenly does and he hates the Republic as much as the Emperor?

 

I don't disagree that Revan probably should have been nuts after dealing with the Emperor for 300 years as his plaything, but the time for that manifestation would have been when you sprung him from jail, not randomly now.

[idnewton]

Since Disney bought Star Wars, my understanding is that all the EU story lines and characters are finished. The return of Revan in 3693 BBY might be some of the last EU plot development we ever get.

 

I would rather have some weak cutscenes and questionable plot motivations than nothing at all from the story of Revan in the future.

 

That's not really how it works...

 

A: This game has never been canon

 

B: The mere fact that Disney bought Star Wars doesn't do away with the canon. They did 'reset' the canon, but it wasn't simply because they bought Star Wars. This was bound to happen anyways because by now, with all of the EU out there, they simply cannot create their own story.

[Fazaani]

I for one don't pretend to know his motivations before i hear them or see if it even is true Revan. While i understand your logic i leave room for us all to be suprised one way or another.

 

And then again as i've said before speculating is ofc very entertaining.

 

One spice to the pot would be also be the exile and Kreia/Treya and the path of no Dark or Light... (since exile and Revan are linked together again in taral v/maelstrom...)

Edited September 18, 2014 by Fazaani

[Nebdar]

I didn't played the KOTOR I , only the KOTOR II

Still haven;t done all of republic side stories but read most in spoilers, or have the characters that are just on 2nd 3rd chapter. And i didn't do most of the Ops so my understanding of story and lore can be limited...

 

The Old Revan from KOTOR I is/and must be different time passes thing happen and that changes you and your way of thinking but on the other hand you can see similarities between KOTOR I and TOR:FA

(KOTOR I) Revan disobeyed orders for Jedi Council and went to war with group friends = (TOR:FA)Revan doesn't ask the Republic/Jedi Council for help but he goes with his followers/friends to war

so in both games stories Revan understands that something needs to be done with current war and current sides/groups/ of the conflicts doesn't understand the Bigger picture or doesn't have the gutts/will to do whats necessary to end this

 

Now what it will be the end or outcome of this story we don't know... but everything from the beginning of the SWTOR(how i feel it) is focused around THE MYSTERIOUS, POWERFUL, DARK EVIL EMPEROR.

So why the Emperor 'dissapeared' from game lore form beginning?

 

Because imagine that in some kind of Operation you kill the Emperor(both factions would have their reasons)... it would create empty space. vacuum .. what to do now (just like in the Star Wars VI, Emperor died all now live happily ever after, Game Over The End) and those who are writing the story for Star Wars VII have same dilemma they either must create something brand new or squeeze something form previous episodes....

 

So the developers must have created story for as long as possible to gain money from the game and hold/attract players... so that why the MAIN EVIL is out of reach....

 

Thats why their first expansion was The Rise of The Hutt Cartel. In all Star Wars movie/series the criminal underworld was is background scenery and 'neutral'/minding their own business in the whole God vs Evil war.

*on side note

The Criminal Underground/ 'Neutral Side' concept have potential to create new ,different story/ classes

focused on PvE part of the game. The classes like Space Pirate, Galactic Merchant, or maybe some force 'Neutral ' class The Exiles (Kreya worshipers). The classes for those who don't like PvP (in general) and want to enjoy of freedom from being neutral(like being able to visit both side Capital Cities, planets) The Galactic Strongholds Expansion also opens the way for those classes to have their own Strongholds/Safehouse/pirate Moons/ Vendor stands/Marketplaces/Storeges and it can create an new way to play and experience the game for civilian side( SWTOR SIMS ) Ofcourse i would allow them to play WZ and FP and let them choose if they want to play with Reps or Imps

So when to two fight with each other usually the third party can emerge victourious/stronger from the conflict (we see the same reasoning in Darth Maul plan for gaining power in Star Wars Clone Wars Season 5 TV series).. so neglected story/lore/group of the conflict has been brought to center of story.... still short and unsuccessful Rise.. after finishing Makeb we are back to place we start...with the question from developers what to do know... who will be the next villain/story...

 

So we got Dread Masters story...... and correct me if i am wrong but now they are all(?) dead so we need new/old enemy

 

In Science Fiction lore like STAR WARS you can NEVER be sure that someone died for sure...

In Revan FP(Taral V, Maelstrom, Boarding, Foundry) we learn that the main goal is the same as it was on end of the KOTOR I... 'to fight the greater evil' a.k.a Emperor and in this part of the story the Imperial forces where the enemy and The Republc/Jedi follow the logic 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'..After the defeat Revan must have understand that Republic and Jedi are as always to 'weak' to do the job, siding with Imperial only also is not enough and the criminal underworld isn't worth to mention. And he knew that fighting alone is also not an option (the 300 years in prison learn him that) So there Comes the Order of Revanites an devoted followers and fanatics on both sides and possibly in every groups and circles allowing him to use the resources both from Reps and Imps and even from Crimin.Underg. Revan thinks that he is the ONLY ONE that can do the job done right and now he doesn't need to explain/ please anyone..

 

Now what it will be the outcome of this story?:

1. Will it be another FP where we will fight Revan and almost kill him? or maybe an Operation when we will finally defeat him and end of this story?

2.Or it will be another FP/OP when we will see Emperors Return ?

3. Or we will see other characters from KOTOR I & II Kreya maybe, The Exiles, or other sith entities that we saw in story/FP

4. The name of the story gives as hint that we will have to fight together against common foe so The Revanities or Revan will be our next enemy.. a new planet like Oricon prehaps.. or two planets one bigger for story ad one smaller for OPS

5. As much as i would love to see Emperor Return to the story for good i know that this day will mark the end of some era/story or lead to long fight against him (which can turn boring if all of the Great Mastermind Emperor turns to be failure ideas/FP/OPS generator) or both

6. It can turn out the the Emperor is only an 'apprentice' (or one of many) of Greater Sith Lord thats why he was called back by his Master

 

Thanks for reading..if someone read it all:cool:

Edited September 18, 2014 by Nebdar

[Alzor]

Look at it this way: Revan sees the empire as an extension of the emperor, his mortal enemy. Empire must die. Republic has gotten in his way a multitude of times, and he doesn't believe the slowpoke way of the Jedi and the Republic of "negotiating" and slowly harassing the empire as useful. I don't think that the Republic in his hands would've fought this longass war, he would've just bumrushed and ended it.

 

Do you THINK the Republic would ever truly go for a Sith genocide? Nada, but Revan would, and the Republic probably wouldn't allow him in the long run. Therefore, the Republic cannot get in the way of his plan of destroying the Sith.

 

Pretty much this.

 

And as far as his Foundry disappearance, many speculated that he uses some sort of teleportation as show in both the Star Wars EU as well as in the game with the shadow/assassin teleport. It's just now the speculations have been proven correct.

 

The real question is what happens now? Obviously we all know the Republic wins, in the end. So will Revan be the key, the catalyst that leads to a Republic victory? Or will we see Revan once again defeated before he unleashes his master plans? And if we defeat Revan, will he be killed (truly), presumably killed (perhaps leaving mystery of his fate to the players imagination), incarcerated (by either the Republic or Empire) or redeemed again by the Jedi (perhaps even his own great granddaughter).

[Darkelefantos]

Look at it this way: Revan sees the empire as an extension of the emperor, his mortal enemy. Empire must die. Republic has gotten in his way a multitude of times, and he doesn't believe the slowpoke way of the Jedi and the Republic of "negotiating" and slowly harassing the empire as useful. I don't think that the Republic in his hands would've fought this longass war, he would've just bumrushed and ended it.

How? If it was that easy, the war would already be over. It's not that the Republic isn't trying to win as fast as they can, it's that the Empire is a tough opponent to get rid off. They almost conquered the galaxy in their initial campaign, mind you.

Do you THINK the Republic would ever truly go for a Sith genocide? Nada, but Revan would, and the Republic probably wouldn't allow him in the long run. Therefore, the Republic cannot get in the way of his plan of destroying the Sith.

They tried it the last time, why not again? With Chancellor Saresh, I wouldn't be surprised at all.

[Morrolan]

I actually think the Revan as portrayed in FA is quite consistent with his kotor characterisation, allowing for him being a prisoner in the emperors mind for 300 years. The original Revan was more pragmatic and ruthless than Jedis in general, its what allowed him to be subverted by the dark side. This side is emerging again twisted by the insanity wrought by his imprisonment.

 

The issue with Revan to me is that such a highly regarded player character didn't actually deserve his fate of being imprisoned by the emperor. I think BW intended it to be a tragedy but it doesn't come across like that.

[GrandLordMenace]

I actually think the Revan as portrayed in FA is quite consistent with his kotor characterisation, allowing for him being a prisoner in the emperors mind for 300 years. The original Revan was more pragmatic and ruthless than Jedis in general, its what allowed him to be subverted by the dark side. This side is emerging again twisted by the insanity wrought by his imprisonment.

 

The issue with Revan to me is that such a highly regarded player character didn't actually deserve his fate of being imprisoned by the emperor. I think BW intended it to be a tragedy but it doesn't come across like that.

 

Exactly! We're seeing the impulsive brash revan that created his own rogue faction to battle the mandalorians, council or not. I for one am going to be very interested in seeing how this Revan will fight both the Republic and Empire.

Edited September 19, 2014 by GrandLordMenace

[CrutchCricket]

That's not really how it works...

 

A: This game has never been canon

 

B: The mere fact that Disney bought Star Wars doesn't do away with the canon. They did 'reset' the canon, but it wasn't simply because they bought Star Wars. This was bound to happen anyways because by now, with all of the EU out there, they simply cannot create their own story.

 

A: Yes it was

 

B: Yes it does. They threw it out the window simply because they don't give a ****. And there was a gap in which they could create a new story, or there were ways of overwriting some things without nuking the whole damn universe. But, see above.

 

As to the topic at hand, anyone considering that it might not be Revan? If the Revanites were going to make a power grab it might make sense to fool people into believing Revan's back. Alternatively, if you're a power hungry individual and you want power but you need some backup, you could do worse than the Revanites. Impersonating the object of their worship wouldn't be out of bounds for a cunning Sith or even deranged Jedi. Just throwing it out there. So far we've only seen Revan as a hologram. The performance was very "Wizard of Oz" if I do say so myself.

[idnewton]

A: Yes it was

 

B: Yes it does. They threw it out the window simply because they don't give a ****. And there was a gap in which they could create a new story, or there were ways of overwriting some things without nuking the whole damn universe. But, see above.

 

As to the topic at hand, anyone considering that it might not be Revan? If the Revanites were going to make a power grab it might make sense to fool people into believing Revan's back. Alternatively, if you're a power hungry individual and you want power but you need some backup, you could do worse than the Revanites. Impersonating the object of their worship wouldn't be out of bounds for a cunning Sith or even deranged Jedi. Just throwing it out there. So far we've only seen Revan as a hologram. The performance was very "Wizard of Oz" if I do say so myself.

 

"I disagree and I provide no evidence."

 

"I disagree because I don't think they care"

 

GG. Go ahead and disagree if you want. Give reasons if you feel like being rational.

 

PS: Sorry I forgot the final paragraph.

 

"I'll take an idea from previous posts and ask if anyone else has thought of it."

Edited September 20, 2014 by idnewton

[CrutchCricket]

"I disagree and I provide no evidence."

 

"I disagree because I don't think they care"

 

GG. Go ahead and disagree if you want. Give reasons if you feel like being rational.

 

PS: Sorry I forgot the final paragraph.

 

"I'll take an idea from previous posts and ask if anyone else has thought of it."

Prior to Disney nuking it, the EU was one consistent continuity, admittedly with some minor inconsistencies but nevertheless treated as one canon, below the movies with some outdated works overwritten or just ignored. I wasn't aware my post was to be treated as a dissertation, but if you want proof read this.

 

Taking an entirely unnecessary action with zero "interest in or concern for things that others find moving or exciting." is by definition, an apathetic action. Apathy being the absence of caring, and the context being Disney's decision and fan outlook towards the EU.

 

As for discussing the actual topic of this thread, no one thus far has mentioned that possibility here, with the exception of Fazaani, who only mentioned it in passing, and whose post has largely been ignored. Or are we supposed to read and remember the whole damn forum to make sure we don't commit the cardinal sin of redundancy around you?

 

Ps. Sorry, I forgot to do you:

 

"Pompous retort"

 

"Pompous retort"

 

"Pompous and presumptuous retort"

[Stinghen]

Everybody likes to remember how Revs was before TOR. Nobody seems to notice how he is during the Malestron/Foundry arc. At least I don't think they do. Because I.. uhm... didn't read most of the previous comments xD

 

Anyhoo, here's my two cents. Revan, after being freed, wasn't the "good guy" he was when he set off strumping after the Emperor 300 years in the past. Let us not forget he thought the best he could do was stay in the Emperor's stasis chamber, and keep trying to influence the guy's mind. When he gets sprung for jail, he goes for what he considers the second best thing: just kill all the Sith. Does that sound Dark Side to you? It does to me.

 

His pet assassin droid (whose skills HK is happy to tell us his master is in no shame of using) lays out basically what he intends to do. Wipe out, crush, smash, burn and disembowel 97% of the Imperial population. No argument. Got Sith blood? BAM! Dead! Got a Sith great-great-great-great-grandfather? BAM! Dead! Does that sound Dark Side to you? It does to me. He even uses Force Storm now and again, and we all know who was the poster boy for that skill was: Darth Sidious.

 

I found the Foundry the perfect end for Revan. Much better would it be had Bioware not provided any fan service at all, granted, but they did, and in my opinion they could not have done it better. Let Revan die as he always lived - an overrated character to whom the ends always justify the means (clichè anti-hero if ever there was one). At least he died with some dignity that the fans took away from him with all the embellishment and ego polishing. (***FAIR WARNING***: This was my opinion. ***** about it if you want, I won't respond) Of course, before Bioware brought back zombie Revan to haunt our sleep again...

 

So what are his motivations? No idea. The development will tell. What we can be sure is this, or at least that's what I expect. Revan's no longer the good guy, has not been since the Foundry. That means Dark Side. But whatever Bioware does with this mess, we can expect them to keep along the track it has been following, of offering the same story to both sides, with only minute differences and with pubes and imps working together to save the galaxy weeeeeeeeee! Cheesy, lazy storytelling, especially if you compare with the past history of eight different, intertwined but independent stories developped outside of the realm of fan service (talking about the class stories now).

 

PS: Revan's return was annoyingly obvious, the moment Bioware changed his death animation from a proper death animation to a lame flash of lightning that got the fans drooling and speaking of teleports and whatnot (hasn't the EU butchered the Force enough without teleports?). The circumstances of his return, however, should have been better. On a sidenote, when will content once again to be developped outside of tactical flashpoint *****? Give us a planet already! No, Bioware, I'm not interested in visiting refurbished planets from KotOR, keep Kashyyyk to yourself if you please. And no, Bioware, offering an empty planet that's just a two-area platform for your quests does not qualify either.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Stinghen