Cost of guild flagships too high

[Max_Killjoy]

Oddly, I went through some cash, but I still have GOBS of crafting materials, and the legacy storage has just made it easier to consolidate and efficiently maintain my stock.

[DarthTHC]

Yep. Another great idea by BW, and yet another blown opportunity for success because of poor implementation. I play regularly on two servers. There are about 6-10 guilds on each server that actively participate and care about the Conquest content on a Weekly basis. The rest of the players and guilds don't give an F.

 

It's not like my guildies and I don't want to participate in Conquest, we actually do. However, the Guild ship price is just too high to bother. Ask me who any of the Planetary Commanders are and where you can find them. I have no clue, nor will I care until the content is made more accessible. 20-25 Million would have been doable. 50 Million is just stupid.

 

Think of it as a test to see if your guild is even worthy of the competition. A guild that can't possibly be troubled to muster 50 million credits will never win a planet, and might even have a tough time even placing top 10 in all but the most wildly broad weeks.

[Infernixx]

Yep. Another great idea by BW, and yet another blown opportunity for success because of poor implementation. I play regularly on two servers. There are about 6-10 guilds on each server that actively participate and care about the Conquest content on a Weekly basis. The rest of the players and guilds don't give an F.

 

It's not like my guildies and I don't want to participate in Conquest, we actually do. However, the Guild ship price is just too high to bother. Ask me who any of the Planetary Commanders are and where you can find them. I have no clue, nor will I care until the content is made more accessible. 20-25 Million would have been doable. 50 Million is just stupid.

 

50mil is not a lot for a group of players.

 

Edit: Misread.

 

Turns out there's a global list of Conquest being kept up to date by the players. There's a vast amount of guilds taking part in Conquest, not 6-10 guilds, as you claim.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Infernixx

[TUXs]

Think of it as a test to see if your guild is even worthy of the competition. A guild that can't possibly be troubled to muster 50 million credits will never win a planet, and might even have a tough time even placing top 10 in all but the most wildly broad weeks.

 

It's about a helluva lot more than "winning a planet" THC. Guild Ships are the 1st piece of guild content to exist in this game, and imo, the best thing to happen since launch...it should NOT be gated behind the freaking credits. It should be accessible to anyone who has a guild...know why?

 

Because it's GOOD for the game! It encourages playing. It encourages players to do older content. It keeps players busy with stuff they normally wouldn't waste time doing. It extends the existing content beyond a one time play through (if that even). It encourages grouping and gives a guild a common goal, even if the top 10 isn't a goal of theirs, it gives a guild purpose beyond 10% XP boosts.

 

Unlocking rooms is where the prestige comes in...the guild ship is merely a vessel to encourage playing more frequently and extend the life of 3 year old content. Give them away. It would be a good move for the game.

[DarthTHC]

It's about a helluva lot more than "winning a planet" THC. Guild Ships are the 1st piece of guild content to exist in this game, and imo, the best thing to happen since launch...it should NOT be gated behind the freaking credits. It should be accessible to anyone who has a guild...know why?

 

Because it's GOOD for the game! It encourages playing. It encourages players to do older content. It keeps players busy with stuff they normally wouldn't waste time doing. It extends the existing content beyond a one time play through (if that even). It encourages grouping and gives a guild a common goal, even if the top 10 isn't a goal of theirs, it gives a guild purpose beyond 10% XP boosts.

 

Unlocking rooms is where the prestige comes in...the guild ship is merely a vessel to encourage playing more frequently and extend the life of 3 year old content. Give them away. It would be a good move for the game.

 

The only content gated behind the credits is content that is harder to "win" than getting the credits.

 

It's like the tests to get into The Great Hunt. If you can't kill the Republic Colonel or the Intellectually Challenged Sith Lord, there's no way you're going to win The Great Hunt, so they won't even let you play.

 

Sorry, man, I got zero sympathy for anyone who can't muster the 50 mil but says they want the ship. I know a lot of ways for a guild to get 50 mil and I know a lot of guilds - big to micro - that have done it. Complainers need to step up and earn the ship or quit complaining they don't have it because the only reason they don't have it is they've chosen not to do it.

Edited September 12, 2014 by DarthTHC

[Kourage]

They said it would be something you would strive for. That means it doesn't come easy.

[Max_Killjoy]

The question is, how would BioWare raise the bar high enough that a Guild Flagship is not a laughably trivial expense for the biggest guilds, while not making access to the content beyond a realistic effort for a guild that has, for sake of argument, half a dozen active players, all of whom have responsibilities other than playing SWTOR?

 

Six players setting aside 100,000 credits each, every day of the week, will save 4.2 million credits per week. That's not gross grind rate, that's after all other expenses and purchases they might have need or want of.

 

At that rate, if my math hasn't failed me, it would take 12 weeks for said small guild to save up enough for just the basic purchase of a 50 million credit flagship -- with each member contributing 8.33 million credits.

 

A lot of those types of guilds are going to look at that threshold and say "no thanks, better things to do", and will skip that Guild Flagship content entirely.

 

Note that I'm COMPLETELY ignoring the connection between the Flagships and the Conquest system -- the two are connected, but the Flagship content does not and should not require one to engage in a single instant of Conquest play.

 

Now, if we're going to get into the insulting and childish nonsense we've seen in this thread that amounts to "LoL, l2p, noob! 50mil no big deal!", then I guess we can turn that table over and say instead "Some of us do our 'striving' and 'earning' in a world that means more than pixel ships and monopoly money." However, I think it's possible, if we try, to have a discussion about this without resorting to stupid commentary about those we disagree with.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Max_Killjoy

[Layno_Maul]

The price is too high and Bioware is being foolish about it.

 

Guildships/Conquest, is the best thing to hit this game since launch imo. Locking it behind any type of credit barrier is absolutely wrong...they should be giving these ships away as a way to encourage more play time. Players who weren't even playing have come back to experience it. Players who were Preferred have subbed to participate in it. Bioware should be handing these out like mother ******* candy to their customers!

 

Imagine returning to try this out, but your guild doesn't have the $ or the care to grind it out...you think that player who returned is going to stick around after seeing absolutely NOTHING of Conquests? Housing sucks...Conquest is a home run though.

 

Bioware should hand out a ship for free to all returning players...not doing so is only hurting their bottom line and impacting their customer retention.

 

This is exactly what I meant

[DarthOvertone]

50mil is not a lot for a group of players.

 

Yes it is. I'm in three Guilds on two different servers. None of them can afford a 50 million ship. Pretty sure our Guilds are closer to the norm than those who purchased a ship.

 

Turns out there's a global list of Conquest being kept up to date by the players. There's a vast amount of guilds taking part in Conquest, not 6-10 guilds, as you claim.

 

Thanks for the pointer: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=760142

 

You're right. There are more than 10 on each server that I play, but the participation is far from vast on either. One Server (Jung Ma) has 17, the other (The Bastion) has 20. That's it! lol

 

That's only 37 Guilds on two servers combined participating in the Planetary Conquest content. Now consider how many Guilds actually exist on those two servers, and you get a pretty clear idea of how dismal a failure the gate for Planetary Conquest really is.

 

 

Think of it as a test to see if your guild is even worthy of the competition. A guild that can't possibly be troubled to muster 50 million credits will never win a planet, and might even have a tough time even placing top 10 in all but the most wildly broad weeks.

 

Maybe, maybe not. What exactly does the saving of credits have to do with equating to someone's ability to complete content anyway? There are plenty of F2Pers that don't bother making any credits whatsoever because they can only possess like 350k at a time, but can certainly blaze through FPs and WZs. That's a terrible assumption on your part and it makes no sense.

 

And no guild on either of the servers I play would have a tough time placing in the top ten on one of the planets since there aren't even enough participating guilds to fill the leaderboard for all three planets.

 

Try again. lulz

[Layno_Maul]

The price is too high and Bioware is being foolish about it.

 

Guildships/Conquest, is the best thing to hit this game since launch imo. Locking it behind any type of credit barrier is absolutely wrong...they should be giving these ships away as a way to encourage more play time. Players who weren't even playing have come back to experience it. Players who were Preferred have subbed to participate in it. Bioware should be handing these out like mother ******* candy to their customers!

 

Imagine returning to try this out, but your guild doesn't have the $ or the care to grind it out...you think that player who returned is going to stick around after seeing absolutely NOTHING of Conquests? Housing sucks...Conquest is a home run though.

 

Bioware should hand out a ship for free to all returning players...not doing so is only hurting their bottom line and impacting their customer retention.

 

This is exactly what I meant

[Kourage]

We've had a maxed out guild flagship for awhile now and have been expanding another flagship for our alt guild. Last I looked, there's enough credits to max out another flagship. There said it would be something to strive for. It's a fuge friggen ship! People pay that for a single person mount.

[Khevar]

Thanks for the pointer: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=760142

 

You're right. There are more than 10 on each server that I play, but the participation is far from vast on either. One Server (Jung Ma) has 17, the other (The Bastion) has 20. That's it! lol

 

That's only 37 Guilds on two servers combined participating in the Planetary Conquest content.

You're reading the spreadsheet wrong.

 

This is the tab for Jung Ma

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pr18IOPKutUTaCS7vFIg80LJ78iLQhFTu7wJ657qo6o/edit?pli=1#gid=1878738157

 

There are 42 guilds over the first 2 weeks, not 17.

 

This is the tab for The Bastion

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pr18IOPKutUTaCS7vFIg80LJ78iLQhFTu7wJ657qo6o/edit?pli=1#gid=481174108

 

This shows 52 guilds participating in Conquests over the first two weeks. Note that there were only 50 spots on the leaderboards in week 2, and you only show up in the spreadsheeet if you're in the top 10 (there were 5 planets).

 

It is not known exactly how many guilds participated on The Bastion, but at the very minimum there are 52, possibly much more.

And no guild on either of the servers I play would have a tough time placing in the top ten on one of the planets since there aren't even enough participating guilds to fill the leaderboard for all three planets.

 

Try again. lulz

This is only true for Jung Ma. The Bastion was completely full up. In fact, on The Trade Emporium Conquest, the lowest score to even make it on the bottom of the Bastion leaderboards was 1,337,774.

 

That's a pretty healthy competition.

 

Try again yourself, lulz.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Khevar

[Cox_The_Beast]

On Imp Side I'm part of a not too big RP Guild. We aren't usually too many online at once unless we work on that kind of events (RP), and in that case we're not grinding or getting credits anyway.

 

That said, we do have our Flagship, and a fully unlocked Guild Stronghold. Most of us have at least a fully unlocked Personal Stronghold too.

 

How we managed? Simple.

When we heard of the price, we began running content. Not that it made difference to me, mind you, I'm an accustomed raider and PvPer on most of my chars anyway. I have enough experience on all content except top tier to call myself a not-exactly-casual, though not enough to be a pro-player...

At any rate, a couple of weeks before launch of SHs, the Guild I'm in began organizing runs on BH, SecX, Makeb, Oricon... It's got dailies? We ran them.

And I kept running Ops and PvPing, taking some Guildies along. Which not only helped gathering the credits for hte starship, but also made us enjoy a new way to play together.

All that came from it was donated to Guild Bank, on a voluntary basis. No taxes, no donation requests... We did it on our own accord. Everyone payed what they could gather and were willing to donate. And at the end of those two weeks, not only we gathered the 50 millions needed for the flagship - our GM already gathered enough to unlock the Guild SH completely, and he payed that himself, bless him... - but we passed the mark with a high enough number of credits that we now have a hefty reserve for once we will need to buy stuff off the GTN to compensate for our low numbers.

 

As such, I'd say that if a Guild where the majority of times there's between 3 and 6 people - I'm excluding events, because RP events don't usually net credits - managed to get that much, bigger ones should have even less trouble.

We decided we wanted it together, we worked to get it together and we fight to enter the top 10 of the planet we choose every week together. We place the group first, and that's one of the reasons I'm so glad to be with them.

 

That said, I agree that to unlock the rest of the starship the amount of work needed is insane, for a Guild like the one we're in... But we are willing to wait. We will take it at our own pace, taking our own time and feeling happy once we manage.

 

However, as a last thing I will say this: Conquest request committing yourself to doing stuff. Be it PvP, FPs, Ops, Crafting or even Heroics.

It's a way to grind, because you'll be repeating the same thing over and over again, and as any kind of grinding, it tends to get boring after a while.

If your Guild doesn't have the committment to work together to gather those 50 million credits for the starship... I'm afraid you wouldn't stand a chance on Conquest, and most likely you'd find it boring, unsatisfying.

I suggest you to keep going like you did until now, you're not missing content you'd enjoy anyway. No offense meant to anyone...

[abercromb]

Is the cost of Guild ships to high?

 

No

 

Is the cost of expanding Guild ships to high?

 

Yes

 

Have Conquests only engaged a relatively small amount of guilds?

 

Yes

 

Are there plans to change Conquests so more guilds are involved?

 

Yes

 

Why do poor players find the time to moan 24 hours a day about having no money but never find the time to make any?

 

No idea.

 

Does allowing members of your guild to be members of multiple guilds on the same server show your

(A) a swell group of people, committed, happy and involved with each other?

(B) easy going, casual, relaxed bunch of roaming guild hippies spreading love and affection?.

© just here for what you can get. Don't actually care for your guild mates or know who 99% of them are. They don't care enough about you to stick to one guild or make it better. That everyone is only looking for something better and will leave in a heartbeat.

 

C

Edited September 13, 2014 by abercromb

[Max_Killjoy]

Is the cost of Guild ships to high?

 

Why do poor players find the time to moan 24 hours a day about having no money but never find the time to make any?

 

No idea.

 

Because of course it takes 24 hours to write a post or two, and no one ever posts from places they can't play the game, and...

 

Funny how so many people online will call any critique or criticism they don't like "whining", but consider their own opinions golden.

 

Now, if we're going to get into the insulting and childish nonsense we've seen in this thread that amounts to "LoL, l2p, noob! 50mil no big deal!", then I guess we can turn that table over and say instead "Some of us do our 'striving' and 'earning' in a world that means more than pixel ships and monopoly money." However, I think it's possible, if we try, to have a discussion about this without resorting to stupid commentary about those we disagree with.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Max_Killjoy

[Elfa]

Look, if you aren't one of the top guilds on every server that are current'y winning every single week, you probably don't even have to worry about having one.

[smartalectwo]

Six players setting aside 100,000 credits each, every day of the week, will save 4.2 million credits per week. That's not gross grind rate, that's after all other expenses and purchases they might have need or want of..

 

Sounds about right. We knew this was coming since about March, and had 15 or so people just devoting one day of the week to group up and hit every Daily Quest area they could to get credits to stick in the bank. We had enough and a bit extra by the time the guildship was available.

 

You just gotta... hate to sound pithy here, but you just gotta stop thinking of all the reasons why you can't do it and just do it.

[Drockter]

You know, when the price was first announced... I was in the "its too high" camp.

 

I am GM for a smallish guild (if you look at active player count), id say <10 prior to Strongholds, and about 15-20 post. The guildship was bought via the efforts of about 6 people. We worked very hard to unlock it on launch day.

 

I can tell you now, it was well worth the 50 Million. The ship breathed new life into the guild. We take pride in decorating with Ops trophies earned as a guild (I pay for these personally). I struggled to get an ops team going... now we run something at least 2-3 times a week (ops), just finished SM progression, and moving into HM. People are constantly forming teams for FP's, or Dailies. Guild Chat is lively. Leveling new characters.

 

Because of the increased activity, we're expanding in size. Not necessarily taking from small guilds, but rather seeing an increase in people joining us from larger guilds who take the conquest a little too seriously.

 

We have never been on the leaderboard... we generally fall way short (I think this week #10 on our server (JC) has 4 times the conquest points we have. But we're all ok with that.... each week our point total grows... and I have no doubt at some point we will break into the top 10.

 

Point being, I would spend the credits all over again. We havent unlocked other areas of the ship, mainly because we don't need to, at least not yet. Do I see the cost to expand excessive... only on one point. Unlocking the hallways... its not so much the rooms, but to unlock the hallway to get to the room... thats a bit of a let down.

 

OP, done correctly... you can get the ship at 50 Million, it is not over priced... not for what it can bring to your guild. I wish you the best of luck, and seriously recommend that you keep striving for it... it is truly worth it.

[Max_Killjoy]

Part of the problem here is that people are making way too much of the connection between the Flagship and Conquest.

[DarthOvertone]

This is only true for Jung Ma. The Bastion was completely full up.

 

Try again yourself, lulz.

 

Bastion wasn't full in Week 2 or Week 1. They are full this week because it's a PvP week. We will see what happens next week when Conquest becomes a PvE venture again.

 

Jung Ma still has two planets that are totally uncontested. Right now you could buy a Guild Ship, invade one of the two uncontested planets, earn one point, and win whatever guild rewards you could win for finishing top ten. The system is working!

 

l u l z

Edited September 15, 2014 by DarthOvertone

[Volcan]

Considering my guild worked hard to have a fully unlocked and decorated guild ship within a month after launch, I'd say no, it is fine as is.

 

Having a guild flagship, and one fully unlocked, is a major feat for a guild that takes time, organization, and effort. It should be a great moment for a guild to achieve this and any less would diminish this accomplishment.

 

If anything, I'd say it was too easy to finish this task. Hopefully in the future there with be guild flagship expansions.

[collinc]

Considering my guild worked hard to have a fully unlocked and decorated guild ship within a month after launch, I'd say no, it is fine as is.

 

Having a guild flagship, and one fully unlocked, is a major feat for a guild that takes time, organization, and effort. It should be a great moment for a guild to achieve this and any less would diminish this accomplishment.

 

If anything, I'd say it was too easy to finish this task. Hopefully in the future there with be guild flagship expansions.

 

My thoughts as well. If anything a month was too quick. But it will be nice to be able to sell off the extra frameworks I get now

[Khevar]

Bastion wasn't full in Week 2 or Week 1. They are full this week because it's a PvP week. We will see what happens next week when Conquest becomes a PvE venture again.

Well, I don't have a toon on Bastion, so the only thing I can do is go off of the very same spreadsheet that YOU linked in your post

 

According to that spreadsheet, here is the list of the 50 guilds that placed in Week 2 on the Bastion:

Spouse Aggro 8,004,980

The Last Dark Reapers 5,876,435

Care Bear Tickle Party 5,782,460

HEAT 5,741,260

Knights ofthe Round Holoterminal 4,898,850

Cherry Pops 4,854,915

Ready Check 4,683,115

Decension 4,652,380

Ruinnation 4,412,615

Gentleman Gankers 4,335,040

Obscurity 3,633,475

Eternal Domion 2,918,160

PURgE 2,774,450

Imperial Special Ops 2,745,030

Primeval Assembly 2,533,835

Meet Killface 2,434,915

The Council of Wrath 2,419,565

Endless Vengeance 2,412,255

VEXATION 2,144,205

Too old for this Sith 1,997,965

The Sovereign Legion 1,729,320

Wound in the Force 1,601,135

Malevolent Logic 1,509,445

Failure 1,474,880

Intergalaktische Kegger 1,433,430

Dark Hearted 1,335,160

Respected and Despised 1,284,485

Ghostbusters 1,280,065

Black Daggers 1,205,050

Circle of Enmity 1,150,830

Casual Elitist 1,150,830

The Republic Defenders 1,116,195

The Dark Lords of Hoth 1,013,930

No Slack 895,405

Ascend Into Darkness 872,845

Dark Creed 849,360

Splatter Pattern 842,910

Blasters and Lightsabers 827,895

Hour of Turmoil 824,375

Imperio Infinito 823,445

Dark Avengers 814,935

Defenders of the Order 787,630

Monster Mashers 787,185

The Grassroots Jedi Movement 772,175

Ascendance 740,625

Rats of Tobruk 674,535

Kandosii 610,575

Imperial Death Squad 491,785

Limit Break 459,345

Midian 412,445

There were 5 planets on Week 2. 10 spots on each planet. Hang, on give me a second ...

 

five times ten, carry the zero, comes out to *takka takka takka*

 

I've got it! The answer is 50!

 

Now, let me go back to your statement that drew me into this argument with you.

That's only 37 Guilds on two servers combined participating in the Planetary Conquest content.

So tell me.

 

Are you willing to admit that you were mistaken?

Edited September 15, 2014 by Khevar

[DarthTHC]

Spouse Aggro 8,004,980

 

Winner!

[Izrin]

20-25 Million would have been doable. 50 Million is just stupid.

 

I have to agree with this I have a small guild that I run, most player base that I have couldn't care less on spending all those credits on a flagship.

 

We all like the idea of making a event out of it on the conquest missions,however no one wants to donate the credits to have a flagship. I recruited many new members since the launch, after a couple of days they leave the guild, which is also stressful to me to get this flagship on the roll.

 

Now I still am unable to get the flagship on the roll (been a couple of months now) with my guild and it is way too much to handle alone, I gave up on the idea to proceed on a guild ship, with the price and the low morale to gather the credits for it I have a hard time to have players stay within my guild.

 

If they would lower the prices I would def make an attempt to try again to gather the credits myself, and have less of a hard time trying to keep players in the guild. The new expansion of the 12x boost everyone is spending their own resources on new characters they are building. Now am just sitting and waiting on a opportunity for one day that I can have my own ship.