The Scam/Not a Scam debate storyline

[TUXs]

What can be done, practically, is making the interface less susceptible to scams:

* Remove decimals. (If you disagree, find one situation where your buying decision depend on what the decimals say)

* Automatically sort by lowest price.

* Allow for cancellation within the first hour, while the seller still hasn't been sent the credits, by clicking "return" on the mail message.

Great suggestions!

 

The last one might be too long (an hour), I would suggest we limit it to 10-15minutes to prevent people from abusing the return system too much. Minor abuses will surely happen, but limiting the timer to 15 minutes should make them more difficult.

[TUXs]

You do realize you can see how many matches you have won/lost, right?

Yes. Matches. Not deaths.

[anonnn]

What? Paying close enough attention to not make mistaken GTN purchases is generally what someone does to prevent the mistake from ever happening...

 

Nothing you've suggested helps anyone that doesn't pay attention. ..

...

 

You're coyly ignoring the fact that people are still making mistaken purchases on the GTN.

 

You obviously didn't look closely at my suggestion. It would stop close to 100% of the expensive GTN mistakes. That's what's most important for a solution to this problem.

 

The Community Manager already prescribed a search for a solution to this issue. So why in the world are you still arguing for no changes at all to the game?

 

"...With that in mind, I am going to pass these issues back to the dev team and see if there is anything we can work towards in the future for the GTN to help alleviate these issues. Thanks everyone!

-eric"

 

By using the term "alleviate these issues" he directly acknowledged that there's something that warrants fixing. So I'm not too sure what you think you're contributing to the thread at this point.

[MillionsKNives]

Great suggestions!

 

The last one might be too long (an hour), I would suggest we limit it to 10-15minutes to prevent people from abusing the return system too much. Minor abuses will surely happen, but limiting the timer to 15 minutes should make them more difficult.

 

Assuming that the feature itself wouldn't be more trouble than it's worth to add, I could get behind something like this. Though I might even lower it to something like 5 minutes. It's hard to exploit someone if you have to keep doing it every 5 minutes. And instead of it going to your mailbox immediately, have it delayed for that time. Have the item in a pending tab on the GTN before you can claim it. You have 5 minutes to cancel the transaction before it's sent to you.

 

The opposite could even be true as well to protect sellers. Your listing doesn't go up on the GTN for 5 minutes. That gives you time to take it down and reprice it without having to worry about someone else ninja'ing it before you can catch it.

[DewyMossEmpire]

It's not a scam.

 

 

F***ing pay attention.

 

 

Close thread.

[TUXs]

It's not a scam.

 

 

F***ing pay attention.

 

 

Close thread.

It is.

 

Pay attention.

Assuming that the feature itself wouldn't be more trouble than it's worth to add, I could get behind something like this. Though I might even lower it to something like 5 minutes. It's hard to exploit someone if you have to keep doing it every 5 minutes. And instead of it going to your mailbox immediately, have it delayed for that time. Have the item in a pending tab on the GTN before you can claim it. You have 5 minutes to cancel the transaction before it's sent to you.

 

The opposite could even be true as well to protect sellers. Your listing doesn't go up on the GTN for 5 minutes. That gives you time to take it down and reprice it without having to worry about someone else ninja'ing it before you can catch it.

5 minutes is fine too. Anything to allow for that "OH $#!&" moment.

[DewyMossEmpire]

It is.

 

Pay attention.

 

It's not. There is a feature asking you to confirm your transaction, & numbers & symbols & digits telling you the actual price of the item. If you literally took 5 seconds are less to look at what you're doing, you would not make a complete fool of yourself with such an easily avoidable mistake. If you are so impatient as to avoid ALL of those features & warnings, then you deserve to lose those Credits. It is so incredibly rudimentary I cannot fathom how someone could be so arrogant as to make an error such as this "GTN Scam" business.

Edited November 11, 2014 by DewyMossEmpire

[TUXs]

It's not. There is a feature asking you to confirm your transaction, & numbers & symbols & digits telling you the actual price of the item. If you literally took 5 seconds are less to look at what you're doing, you would not make a complete fool of yourself with such an easily avoidable mistake. If you are so impatient as to avoid ALL of those features & warnings, then you deserve to lose those Credits. It is so incredibly rudimentary I cannot fathom how someone could be so arrogant as to make an error such as this "GTN Scam" business.

Then you don't understand how the scammers are doing it. Please re-read this entire thread and see how they're manipulating the limited UI to make it appear they are the lowest price.

[Jimvinny]

If they got rid of decimals and sorted by lowest price automatically, there'd be no reason for a return option. I can't support that at all. If you make a decision to purchase something, live with it. This isn't Walmart.

[Brewski]

What can be done, practically, is making the interface less susceptible to scams:

* Remove decimals. (If you disagree, find one situation where your buying decision depend on what the decimals say)

* Automatically sort by lowest price.

* Allow for cancellation within the first hour, while the seller still hasn't been sent the credits, by clicking "return" on the mail message.

 

I agree the first two are great suggestions, and sound (on the surface at least) to be easy changes to make that will have an immediate impact on the number of times this happens. I would add right aligning the price values as well, as I think it would really help.

 

The last suggestion is more problematic, as it is easy to abuse if the timer is too long. If I have a high volume item that's selling fast, I can avoid people undercutting me by buying up anyone who does, and then cancelling the sale at the last minute. It gives me a window I can repeatedly abuse to keep certain sellers off the market.

 

I think it would be great if there was a way to implement some sort of refund system, but I think the timer would need to be a lot shorter as some have suggested. Even so, I suspect this would be a lot harder to implement than the other suggestions, so I would prioritize those higher, at least for now.

[DewyMossEmpire]

Then you don't understand how the scammers are doing it. Please re-read this entire thread and see how they're manipulating the limited UI to make it appear they are the lowest price.

 

I understand how it works, what I don't understand is how people can stand to be so ignorant. Just check the prices & you won't look like a fool.

[TUXs]

I agree the first two are great suggestions, and sound (on the surface at least) to be easy changes to make that will have an immediate impact on the number of times this happens. I would add right aligning the price values as well, as I think it would really help.

 

The last suggestion is more problematic, as it is easy to abuse if the timer is too long. If I have a high volume item that's selling fast, I can avoid people undercutting me by buying up anyone who does, and then cancelling the sale at the last minute. It gives me a window I can repeatedly abuse to keep certain sellers off the market.

 

I think it would be great if there was a way to implement some sort of refund system, but I think the timer would need to be a lot shorter as some have suggested. Even so, I suspect this would be a lot harder to implement than the other suggestions, so I would prioritize those higher, at least for now.

1-day lockout if you use the "return" button?

[Cidanel]

Yes. Matches. Not deaths.

 

Right...which was my point...won matches are more important than credits...

[Jimvinny]

1-day lockout if you use the "return" button?

 

Why a return button at all? Only people that protects is those with buyers remorse. Besides, the coding involved in making a completely new mechanic, vs just altering existing ones, is probably prohibitive.

[ScarletBlaze]

1-day lockout if you use the "return" button?

 

I would say a two-day lockout if they use the return button and if they use it on a regular basis then a lockout for a week to deter people from abusing the return, and regardless whether or not you want to believe some buyers will abuse the system.

[Brewski]

1-day lockout if you use the "return" button?

 

That would work, although it rather limits the system to a single bad purchase. Not that we need more than that, but people would complain.

 

In general I think it's a good suggestion, but finding a balance point between "flexible enough to help" and "easily abused" would be a challenge. That's why I think it may be too complex, at least in the short term.

[Vandicus]

I agree the first two are great suggestions, and sound (on the surface at least) to be easy changes to make that will have an immediate impact on the number of times this happens. I would add right aligning the price values as well, as I think it would really help.

 

The last suggestion is more problematic, as it is easy to abuse if the timer is too long. If I have a high volume item that's selling fast, I can avoid people undercutting me by buying up anyone who does, and then cancelling the sale at the last minute. It gives me a window I can repeatedly abuse to keep certain sellers off the market.

 

I think it would be great if there was a way to implement some sort of refund system, but I think the timer would need to be a lot shorter as some have suggested. Even so, I suspect this would be a lot harder to implement than the other suggestions, so I would prioritize those higher, at least for now.

 

The 5 minute time frame others have suggested seems reasonable.

 

Nothing in SWTOR moves continuously, so to take advantage of the 5 minute window you'd need to know someone was making large purchases at that moment. Even then, you'd be competing with the purchaser to try and pick up items faster than he can, and your margin won't necessarily increase by a huge amount(because most people buying mats to craft with in large quantities have an idea of what they need to pay to make credits by crafting, and so won't go beyond that).

 

 

Though yes, this is most likely harder to implement than the others. GTN is in need of an overhaul in a number of areas though. If they get around to making significant changes to it I'd hope this would be one of them(as well as the accompanying 5 minute window post-listing where you can check your price listings before they go live).

[Cidanel]

Then you don't understand how the scammers are doing it. Please re-read this entire thread and see how they're manipulating the limited UI to make it appear they are the lowest price.

 

There are no scammers in the GTN. There are only people who have trouble reading prices.

 

Using your logic, it is a 'scam' for me to start out dealing damage in a warzone as a healer to disguise the fact that I AM a healer because I am "making myself appear to be something I am not"

[Theeko]

I have 35m on one toon, and never once fell for the material price "Scam" cause I always "Credit Filter" to 120k tops cause any more than 120k per stack is not worth it for me.

[TUXs]

There are no scammers in the GTN. There are only people who have trouble reading prices.

 

Using your logic, it is a 'scam' for me to start out dealing damage in a warzone as a healer to disguise the fact that I AM a healer because I am "making myself appear to be something I am not"

You're wrong. Just because people fall victim to a scam due to their own haste, stupidity or ignorance, doesn't mean there are no scammers. Scammers depend on people falling for their tricks.

[Vandicus]

I have 35m on one toon, and never once fell for the material price "Scam" cause I always "Credit Filter" to 120k tops cause any more than 120k per stack is not worth it for me.

 

Perfect example of inefficiency created by a flawed system.

[Cidanel]

You're wrong. Just because people fall victim to a scam due to their own haste, stupidity or ignorance, doesn't mean there are no scammers. Scammers depend on people falling for their tricks.

 

The game should not hold people's hands to prevent their own stupidity. People call something a scam when they are too lazy to read prices. Yet again.

 

if someone is dumb enough to not read prices, they deserve to lose credits.

[robertthebard]

I understand how it works, what I don't understand is how people can stand to be so ignorant. Just check the prices & you won't look like a fool.

 

You know what I don't understand? How somebody can be so adamantly against something that, according to them, would have absolutely no effect on them whatsoever. The only conclusion I can come to is that they have an alt that is indeed "taking advantage" of the situation, and fear losing out on millions of "ill gotten" gains if something is implemented to slow this "abuse" down.

 

Note the use of quotation marks " ", for people that may not understand what those are. I don't see a problem, as I pay attention to what I'm buying, hence me not being suckered by the people posting here that are dead set against this posting beryllius for a billion credits per piece on the GTN. I cannot, in any way shape or form believe that they think somebody will honestly buy it, so I have to believe that they are indeed trying to "sucker" someone into it. My solution is loads simpler, instead of basing the posting price on the vendor value of the items, make the listing fee a percentage of the asking price. "Problem" potentially solved.

[ScarletBlaze]

Since everyone seems to be saying buyers are scamming and no one wants to explain how they have proof (and I mean absolute proof that action can be taken against and not suspicions) a person is scamming and everyone seems to ignore my posts when I ask how what I list is that difficult I am going to try again to see if people are going to ignore my posts once again and if so then I know that all they want is someone to take responsibility for their actions instead of them being responsible for their actions.

 

1. First Item I list:

 

10 Universal PreFab M-3 Unit Price---$60,000.00 Total Price $600,000.00

 

Another variation using decimals

 

10 Universal PreFab M-3 Unit Price- 59,999.99 Total Price 599,999.90

 

Next time

 

10 MK-9 Augment Tool Kits Unit Price $50,000.00 Total Price $500,000.00

 

another variation using decimals

 

10 Mk-9 Augment Tool Kits Unit Price $49,999.99 Total Price $499,999.90

 

 

Now care to how that is scamming anyone? Care to explain how that is the seller's fault ? Care to explain how buyer's want to put the blame on a seller for listing it like that when it is clearly marked?

Edited November 11, 2014 by ScarletBlaze

[robertthebard]

Since everyone seems to be saying buyers are scamming and no one wants to explain how they have proof a person is scamming and everyone seems to ignore my posts when I ask how what I list is that difficult I am going to try again to see if people are going to ignore my posts once again and if so then I know that all they want is someone to take responsibility for their actions instead of them being responsible for their actions.

 

1. First Item I list:

 

10 Universal PreFab M-3 Unit Price---$60,000.00 Total Price $600,000.00

 

Another variation using decimals

 

10 Universal PreFab M-3 Unit Price- 59,999.99 Total Price 599,999.90

 

Next time

 

10 MK-9 Augment Tool Kits Unit Price $50,000.00 Total Price $500,000.00

 

another variation using decimals

 

10 Mk-9 Augment Tool Kits Unit Price $49,999.99 Total Price $499,999.90

 

 

Now care to how that is scamming anyone? Care to explain how that is the seller's fault ? Care to explain how buyer's want to put the blame on a seller for listing it like that when it is clearly marked?

 

Care to explain how you get the GTN to pay you .9 credits?