When did this begin ?

[OddballEasyEight]

Need = Want it.

Greed = Don't care.

Pass = Don't want it.

[Rothie]

It’s quite simple really. I ‘need’ on anything I plan to make use of, ‘Greed’ anything I plan to sell and pass on anything that I can’t use or sell. There’s no need to bring semantics or moral imperatives to the issue, it’s a game after all.

 

Edit: I ask before rolling need for an Alt or Companion, since my character making the roll won't be making direct use of it. Wanted to add that before anyone posted saying i was ninja rolling for alts

Edited September 7, 2014 by Rothie

[Khevar]

In real life you don't have to go to Target with a group of 4/8/16 people, kill the occupants and then roll off the "drops".

Toilet paper and toasters too stronk. Plz nerf.

 

My +5 shopping cart took too much damage and I ran out of repair funds.

 

We'll regroup tomorrow for bread and DVDs.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Khevar

[Failtima]

It’s quite simple really. I ‘need’ on anything I plan to make use of, ‘Greed’ anything I plan to sell and pass on anything that I can’t use or sell. There’s no need to bring semantics or moral imperatives to the issue, it’s a game after all.

 

Exactly this. Long long ago, too many MMORPGs ago, when I was just starting out it was always understood among the gamers that I ran with that 'need' was the drops that you would use, 'greed' was sell loot, and pass was something you were indifferent to.

[OddballEasyEight]

In real life you don't have to go to Target with a group of 4/8/16 people, kill the occupants and then roll off the "drops".

 

In games you typically need on things you will use and greed on things you will sell. It's not real life, remembering that might help you get some perspective.

 

No, but if you DO go to target with a group of 4/8/16 people and kill the occupants to get the loot, you'd have to stand there and share it equally or start fighting over it, and you really don't have time for that with the cops coming to arrest you for multiple homicide, so rolling a dice for it seems a quick and expedient way of doing it.

 

(I do agree with you about the "this is not real life" comment tho, just having some fun)

Edited September 7, 2014 by OddballEasyEight

[Fdzzaigl]

What a load of hogwash. Happens all the time in tacticals and no one ever gets booted for it. Anyone who whined about others needing on decorations, pets, etc., would go on my blacklist.

 

You clearly didn't get that I was talking about behaviour in the past.

 

In vanilla WoW, I was once in a run where a rare mount dropped (Baron Rivendare's mount), not a single party member of the 10-man run got it in their heads to press anything else but greed. We're talking 0,0001% chances to get that mount here. So if you had been one in ten people to roll need anyhow, yes your name would have been publicly announced to the entire server for ninjaing a rare mount.

 

You do not NEED that special looking mount or decoration because it doesn't improve your character in any way. It's exactly like the OP said: like wanting a special looking lamp while your old one is giving light just fine.

 

When your craving for that special decoration is so damn strong that you can't help but hover over the need button, you could at least consult with the other party members. Perhaps that's my opinion, but it's also something else: common sense and decency.

 

But if we're giving in to the ninjaing and hoarding attitude anyway, then yeah, make it roll or pass.

[Floredon]

If people ask, I'm ok with companions been needed for... the asking part is nice, it shows respect and consideration.

same here, if someone asks and no one else needs for their main spec, I am ok with it as well.

[annabethchase]

When your craving for that special decoration is so damn strong that you can't help but hover over the need button, you could at least consult with the other party members. Perhaps that's my opinion, but it's also something else: common sense and decency.

 

Common sense has decided that mats, mounts, decorations and anything else similar is a Need roll. At least on my server. Has been for the entire lifetime of this game.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Common sense has decided that mats, mounts, decorations and anything else similar is a Need roll. At least on my server. Has been for the entire lifetime of this game.

 

With everything of that being pure "luxury" in my opinion. Well, except mats, maybe.

 

Should I roll "need" on mats for crafting professions I don't even have on the current char ?

"Most definitively !" my "inner cynioc" responds ...

 

"I need a new mount ! I just need it !"

Edited September 7, 2014 by AlrikFassbauer

[Fractal_Eye]

With everything of that being pure "luxury" in my opinion. Well, except mats, maybe.

 

Should I roll "need" on mats for crafting professions I don't even have on the current char ?

"Most definitively !" my "inner cynioc" responds ...

 

"I need a new mount ! I just need it !"

 

Well, I think it's been shown by the people in this thread that you are in the minority in your loot roll choices.

 

So, continue to embrace your 'moral superiority' and roll greed on these items; just be prepared to never win any of those said items. :le shrug:

[BrintoSFJ]

I totally understand what you are saying OP but it has been quite a long time since that consensus have been made. Not by me or you but majority have dictated to "need" on anything. It is the reason why i don't have any MH beyond 162 rating CZ MH. i do an ops, 168 MH token drops and someone who already have 180 "need" on that for either alter or companion. Entire looting situation have been swimming in pile of **** for a long time now. That is the reason why i only do GF ops now, i am happy as now GF allows me to get lots of Ultimate Comm to get full set of 180 rating gears(except for MH). For a casual player i am happy this way. And there is no point ranting about this situation, there are more piles of **** than gold in this world.

[DataBeaver]

When your craving for that special decoration is so damn strong that you can't help but hover over the need button, you could at least consult with the other party members. Perhaps that's my opinion, but it's also something else: common sense and decency.

I do this by waiting a few seconds to see what the others roll. If anyone else rolls need, I will also roll need. If everyone else rolled greed, I will be polite and also roll greed.

 

Here's another bit of common sense for you: On items you can assume everyone to want, it's safer to roll need, because then no one can ninja it from you. If all members of the group apply this logic, then they will all roll need, and everyone will have a fair chance at the item.

Edited September 7, 2014 by DataBeaver

[Kalfear]

Well OP, when did it begin that you roll Need on Items you need? Pretty much day one honestly, unless your in a guild/friend group.

 

Personally here is my standards for rolling in pugs

 

1) I always wait to see if someone is rolling NEED on EEE, pets, speeders,decorations, rep coms (if I need them still). And then follow suit of group standard (IE: if all roll greed, I also roll greed. If some or all roll NEED, I follow up with my own NEED)

 

HOWEVER, what will cause me to change from above standard is

 

2) If someone tries to out wait the group to sneak in a last second Need roll. When I see that happening Ill just start Needing everything.

 

3) Someone is in 180 gear and is Needing 148 gear to sell (or what ever). We all need credits and occasionally you hit those groups of kids who need everything under the sun. Ill start needing in those groups just to keep it fair.

 

Notice: I really dont care what alts you have or how your companions are geared. Its not my job to gear your alts and companions. If you ask nicely before rolling, 99% of time Ill say you needing on an item doesnt bother me at all. But you have to ASK (not demand, not state, but ask nicely) first.

 

I will roll NEED for no other reason to win loot away from rude/ignorant players who think everyone else is there to outfit and advance them.

 

Honestly the Need/Greed system is pretty basic and staright forward.

Never understand why so many people have so much problem with it.

[Deewe]

For gear here's a suggestion (source):

 

Short version: make items how it binds be determined on how it was rolled on.

 

Long version:

• Need = BoP that you can only use on your character
  
  • Can't use it on companions
    
  • Can't use it on alts
    
  • Can't remove mods or eventually can only move them to the same character.
    
  • Can't sell it
    

  [*]Greed = BoL

 

An option is to make BoL, once used, stuck to the character and its alts it has been used on.

Long term, there could be in game systems to unbind gear to allow one transfer between alts.

 

Finally the system could also be made that you can't need if your equipped gear has a higher rating than the looed one

 

--- ---

 

Then but for gear it should be made that if anybody needs and you already cast a greed vote you are prompted a need/greed again.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Deewe

[Psychopyro]

I'm not gonna read thru this whole thing, but NbG to me was always a stupid system. I never understood the point of it. You never know who you're going to get in a group with (unless it's guild or friends). Assume most people who are in your group are going to be self serving (because lets face it, society is) and want everything. That means they are going to roll on everything.

 

Mats are needed now, so just because someone has strength as a main stat, does not mean they don't need to roll on that willpower item for mats (yes I know there is a roll for that, but no one uses it). Likewise cunning, aim, earpieces, armorings, etc.

 

Also with the huge money sink that just went in, credits are down among average users across the board. People need more money. Barter items are huge in this.

 

Rep is another one. I don't have max Rep with some things, so I roll need on those cause I need to get my rep up.

 

Unless the item is really useful (i.e. Raids, at which case should be ML) the only real need is Roll/Pass. NbG just gives ninja another way to screw people who honor the system.

[AlaricSevGirl]

my guild rolls need only on armor, mods, weapons and greed on everything else unless they ask first. We do not allow rolling of need on luxury items.

[annabethchase]

my guild rolls need only on armor, mods, weapons and greed on everything else unless they ask first. We do not allow rolling of need on luxury items.

 

That's great for your guild, but the question was "when did rolling need on luxuries begin" and the answer is years ago, or day 1 of this game.

 

As to your guilds rules, that seems utterly silly. If you pick up a pug or two, they can win the stuff without ever realizing they did something wrong.

[Fdzzaigl]

He probably meant on guild runs.

 

I should've known better than to call anything "common sense" when it comes to loot myself. Especially considering I had the job to hand out that loot in raids (both mixed and guild only) for over a year in this game. People have widely different attitudes and many show their true faces when "epix" drop.

 

I guess the problem is that "Need" and "Greed" aren't separate categories for many players. In other words, some feel like they very much deserve to fill in their own greed. Reminds me of a certain raid where a member felt he absolutely needed to roll and win the mount of Soa which he already had on 3 different characters. Even though the one guy rolling with him hadn't gotten any special mounts yet while putting in exactly the same or even more effort.

 

In the end it boils down to communicating your loot rules. Waiting with needing won't always help: someone can wait longer than you or people before you can have widely varied opinions on what deserves a need. Meaning those who rolled greed automatically get screwed.

 

Considering communication during groups is commonly extremely low these days, it might indeed be better to simply have a roll and pass system.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Fdzzaigl

[Beltane]

The system is not flawed.

 

Need = I want this. I am primarily doing the flashpoint for this item.

Greed = I intend to vendor this item or use it for a companion.

Pass = I don't like making money so I'm going to throw away free credits.

 

Let me put it another way.

 

For geared 55s, the only reason we tend to do 50 HMs is for the new decorations that drop. That means the Statue of the Emperor that drops from FE is in fact the item we "need" from that run, the reason why we are wasting 45 min or so to churn through it over and over.

 

And even if someone needs on that Emperor statue because they want to sell it on the GTN for 300k... that is their right. They "need" the credits from the big ticket item.

 

I have never played a MMO where expensive luxury items such as crafting mats, speeders, pets, decorations, etc, were not needed on.

 

That said, I have found even random people in group finder to be fairly receptive to polite requests. Like "do you mind if I need for my companion?" and stuff. Most people don't care, unless they need the loot for their character--in which case they shouldn't be greeding.

 

But since "everyone" can use decorations, everyone is "entitled" to need.

 

TL;DR,

If you roll need, and everyone else does, nobody can snipe it.

If 3 people roll greed, and 1 person rolls need, they auto-win it.

Meaning, the fairest option is in fact to roll need if you want it.

Decorations are the only reason many people are bothering with 50 HMs anymore, meaning they "need" decorations.

No, one decoration is not adequate if you are trying to genuinely decorate your stronghold.

Simple communication also helps more than you might think.

[CmdrShpd]

As others have stated in various ways, for items that nobody "needs" in order to improve their stats (e.g., decoration drops), I think it makes perfect sense to have the entire group roll "Need" because it gives everybody an equal chance and it prevents anybody from gaming the system.

[ZooMzy]

The problem with the argument is still in the semantics: people read the word and place a personal value to it over actually understanding the point of the three tiers of rolling.

 

They see the words "need", "greed", and "pass" and rather than recognizing the system for what it is, criticize it because it does not follow their own specific code of ethics or morals. Essentially put, self righteousness like the OP's rant ensures because of ignorance that exists solely because of someone thinking "with their heart rather than their head".

 

Take away the personal connection to the words themselves, think with your head, and you see the purpose of the system: a set of three tiers that allows people to choose how much they want an item.

 

"Need" is merely a level where someone wants an item at the highest level, whether it's for necessity or personal reasons. "Greed" is a pure relation to the term: someone doesn't really want the item that badly, but wants to have a roll on it if no one really has a major emphasis on obtaining it so they can gain some sort of selfish boost from the item, IE, selling it for credits. "Pass" is just that, passing on an item and having no desire to obtain it, such as passing on reputation tokens from KDY if you have max rep with the faction already.

 

Simply put, the tiers are given names to reflect the level that people can place importance to them:

 

Need = "I really want it"

Greed = "I don't really care, but I'll roll for it if no one really needs it."

Pass = "I don't want it."

 

Personally, I like that this system captures the three levels of desire regarding a heavy want for it, a neutral want, and then an option to abstain from rolling. To those who think with a brain, it makes perfect sense.

 

But to the self righteous, I can see how the wording could be a problem. To which, I can not sympathize because you bring it upon yourself for reasons listed above.

Edited September 7, 2014 by ZooMzy

[Sangrar]

hey for decorations I will press need if I don't have it and it would be a great addition to my home. If I already got it then no whats the point. I never use greed if I don't need or want something I just press pass. But yeah my point is of course I will press need for a decoration as new decorations can help boost my prestige score and add some ambiance to my stronghold.

[Fdzzaigl]

People like the OP and me are filling in the meaning of "need" in their own way, but so are you ZooMzy. It's quite hypocritical to call others self-righteous when you're doing exactly the same thing.

 

The question about what a person really "needs" is hundreds of years old. Even dictionaries can't come up with one big rule. You can either interpret it as a requisite or a diserable.

It's no surprise that consensus can't be reached on some internet forum.

 

Regardless, an in-game system should be adapted to work for most people. If the greed option exists only to confuse people, then it should be removed.

 

Then again, if you look at a number of other F2P titles that did that, everyone starts to roll on everything without passing. Leading to a pretty much FFA situation.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Fdzzaigl

[Uruare]

We can basically do away with the whole need/greed system anyway, and simply implement roll/pass. Would save a ton of bickering.

 

Assigning personal loot in groupfinder content would be better still.

 

Strangers have never and will never be psychic and 'just know' what arcane code of conduct the next guy prefers, and almost nobody cares enough to discuss it before launching into the fp.

 

The roll system is an archaic carry over from tabletop gaming, where it works swell because everyone at the table knows eachother, can throw dice at anyone trying to be a tard and where a gm can always go 'no. You don't get that'.

 

The fact that it persists boggles me.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Uruare

[branmakmuffin]

We can basically do away with the whole need/greed system anyway, and simply implement roll/pass. Would save a ton of bickering.

Same thing, different labels, without the intermediate "more than pass, less than roll" (i.e., greed) option.