Vember Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) So, the more I add, the worse I get. Fresh 55 Annihilation Marauder, in all 148/150, just enough comms upon hitting 55 to purchase two obroan relics. I was pleasantly surprised at my pvp performance...I was actually a threat. I spent all day Sunday and Monday doing nothing but pvp. I started out strong, doing high damage, actually getting kills, feeling pretty good about the class. Started buying pvp gear. With each piece I added, my damage and survivability went down. Now, with a halfway complete set of Obroan gear, I am completely useless in warzones. My damage is awful, my survivability has completely tanked. In a little less than two days of play, I went from doing pretty good to being a complete drain on my team in every match, because I can't do anything. Dying instantly, doing terrible, terrible damage. I can only assume its because my expertise keeps going down the more pvp gear I add, since I'm getting less bolster. now, with half an Obroan set, even though my physical stats are higher, my expertise is MUCH lower than it was in all level 50 flashpoint gear. So i decided to check this on my main, a Madness Assasin in all 156/162 gear. I do very well on this character in pvp, so I started adding Obroan to him, and after adding four pieces, same results. My damage and survivability are starting to **** the bed in pvp. So i guess, is pvp gear all or nothing? Seems like a stupid system. I don't remember it being like this. Edited September 2, 2014 by Vember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) I can only assume its because my expertise keeps going down the more pvp gear I add, since I'm getting less bolster. now, with half an Obroan set, even though my physical stats are higher, my expertise is MUCH lower than it was in all level 50 flashpoint gear. Wut? It should go up to 2018 in full Obroan or full Brut. Please DONT mix pvp and pve mods/enhancements and armorings in one piece of gear! Edited September 2, 2014 by Glower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomiSotto Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) I am an inexperienced player, but I noticed as well that going from 112-148 range to 148-156 range improved things for me, but as I am starting to swap to Obroan, it made things are a bit worse. I guess it's a hit and miss till you get a full set. Unfortunately, the only way I see is forward, as I am a new player and can't afford 2 sets of augmented gear. I was advised to switch the left side first, rather than the right side. I am almost tempted to not play with bolster & waste credits on pulling the mods out, and just store Obroan pieces till I can swap them for Brutalizer and then augment those. It is going take forever, but well, what can you do. Wut? It should go up to 2018 in full Obroan or full Brut. Please DONT mix pvp and pve mods/enhancements and armorings in one piece of gear! I think the OP doesn't mix on one piece, but replaces the full piece of equipment from a PvE one to a PvP one. If s/he is like me, s/he has say 3-4 Obroan pieces and 9-10 PvE pieces (well, that's where I am now, 5 Obroan pieces (relics, belt, bracers, MH), the rest - PvE). Edited September 2, 2014 by DomiSotto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Wut? It should go up to 2018 in full Obroan or full Brut. Please DONT mix pvp and pve mods/enhancements and armorings in one piece of gear! I don't think he has a full set yet and its probably not augmented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I am an inexperienced player, but I noticed as well that going from 112-148 range to 148-156 range improved things for me, but as I am starting to swap to Obroan, it made things are a bit worse. I guess it's a hit and miss till you get a full set. Unfortunately, the only way I see is forward, as I am a new player and can't afford 2 sets of augmented gear. I was advised to switch the left side first, rather than the right side. I am almost tempted to not play with bolster & waste credits on pulling the mods out, and just store Obroan pieces till I can swap them for Brutalizer and then augment those. It is going take forever, but well, what can you do. Get a set of orange gear you like, augment it and throw the obroan mods into that gear and trade in the shell later for a brut. And really, unless you plan on doing ranked you only need obroan. The jump between obroan and brut is minimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) I don't think he has a full set yet and its probably not augmented. This, and I haven't mixed anything in individual pieces of gear. I have half Obroan, and half level 50 flashpoint gear. What i'm gathering from this, is that its better to pvp in pve gear until you have a full set of pvp gear which doesn't make much sense to me at all. Edited September 2, 2014 by Vember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomiSotto Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) Yes, that's what I am doing, pulling Obroan mods out and putting them in my orange set that is augmented. The expense is at the double pull of the modification (out of Obroan; out of the PvE set). Edited September 2, 2014 by DomiSotto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParagonAX Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 If your expertise is going down, there MUST be something you are doing wrong. Obroan / Brut has the max expertise possible on each piece, so putting on new Obroan / Brut in each slot could only possibly increase your expertise or cause it to stay constant, never decrease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TezMoney Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 This, and I haven't mixed anything in individual pieces of gear. I have half Obroan, and half level 50 flashpoint gear. Then your expertise shouldn't be going down. Bolster works on a slot by slot basis. Having Obroan on your head doesn't lower the expertise on your lvl 50 chest gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomiSotto Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) Maybe it is not Expertise that is going down as the OP suggested. I see both my PvE and PvP non-expertise stats right now go down, as the PvE set was customized to my class, and the PvP set replaces with expertise, but the expertise boost from a few pieces seems not to be high enough to compensate for the loss of primary/secondaries. Edited September 2, 2014 by DomiSotto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 If your expertise is going down, there MUST be something you are doing wrong. Obroan / Brut has the max expertise possible on each piece, so putting on new Obroan / Brut in each slot could only possibly increase your expertise or cause it to stay constant, never decrease. The only conclusion I can come to is that I'm getting less bolster with each piece of pvp gear I add. While my expertise is going up from zero on my character sheet outside of warzones, its actually going down from 2018 once I get inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) Maybe it is not Expertise that is going down as the OP suggested. I see both my PvE and PvP non-expertise stats right now go down, as the PvE set was customized to my class, and the PvP set replaces with expertise, but the expertise boost from a few pieces seems not to be high enough to compensate for the loss of primary/secondaries. My stats are increasing, but I have less Expertise. At zero expertise outside a WZ in full pve gear, inside I'd have 2018. Now I have around 900 expertise outside, and last I checked something like 1800-1900 inside...all this from adding just pvp gear. The bolster system is broken somewhere, its not making up the difference. Edited September 2, 2014 by Vember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomiSotto Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Well, it doesn't seem to take to log for each piece of Obroan, thankfully (~ 2 pieces a week if you do daily and weekly religiously), so... yeah, play it forward. I am a crappy player though, so I always blame my lack of skill first anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natharon Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 The solution to the issue would be to remove bolster, also make only wins count for conquest. It would fix zerg guilds /stucking to farm conquest points and would self correct pve players from queuing unprepared. How pissy do you think a pve player gets when someone undergeared goes into a hm flashpoint or operation? Yet they can't fathom why the opposite is just as annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 The solution to the issue would be to remove bolster, also make only wins count for conquest. It would fix zerg guilds /stucking to farm conquest points and would self correct pve players from queuing unprepared. How pissy do you think a pve player gets when someone undergeared goes into a hm flashpoint or operation? Yet they can't fathom why the opposite is just as annoying. Yea, honestly I find that pve gear is just easier to get, so I've never really bothered to grind out a set of pvp gear, at least not since Obroan, and you do just fine in pvp with all pve gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomiSotto Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) No, I like the bolster. I started learning before Conquest (and I don't participate in Conquest deliberately), and without it, I would have no chance whatsoever. As pathetic as I am, I do really like the chance to play, because, call me weird, I like these wargames. Bolster was there from far before Bio tried to bring the PvP to the forefront through the Conquest system, and it is the only thing that gives a newb a chance. And being a newb, I am all for John Lennon's attitude towards giving chances. Yes, I understand, the advice is also to start from L10 onward (and I did), but frankly, on my now L15 character, against a character in his/hers late 20'ies, I can't do much, as my class abilities are not there & I have very little to show for my AC. Which feels just like my L52 character when I only started. The only advantage is that I have a better knowledge of the maps. EDIT: And, I for one, can't believe how easy is to get the PvP gear. It's there to buy for participation. WOOT! No need to pay horrendous costs that PvE gear carries, or subject yourself to nightmarish difficulty very long uphill struggles that are stressful to the core, and in addition take a risk of not even being able to finish it and be stuck with expenses only, and no rewards! PvP is super-fair compared to that! Edited September 2, 2014 by DomiSotto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) My stats are increasing, but I have less Expertise. At zero expertise outside a WZ in full pve gear, inside I'd have 2018. Now I have around 900 expertise outside, and last I checked something like 1800-1900 inside...all this from adding just pvp gear. The bolster system is broken somewhere, its not making up the difference. Its because bolster is comparing your overall gear rating and adjusting for it. It will go back up as you replace more pve pieces with pvp gear. Edited September 2, 2014 by Raansu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomiSotto Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Yes, that's precisely what the OP is saying (and I am echoing) - partial PvP gear is worse than complete PvE gear. Which for a time leads to disadvantage in the wz, while gearing. Which means you gear slower (you get less medals, hence less comms). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 EDIT: And, I for one, can't believe how easy is to get the PvP gear. It's there to buy for participation. WOOT! No need to pay horrendous costs that PvE gear carries, or subject yourself to nightmarish difficulty very long uphill struggles that are stressful to the core, and in addition take a risk of not even being able to finish it and be stuck with expenses only, and no rewards! PvP is super-fair compared to that! Oh I dunno Domi, trying to pvp in half of a pvp set feels exactly like that to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duigha Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I am totally confused by the op question :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomiSotto Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Right, but you still get your reward in the end and at no cost to yourself. You don;t have to cough up credits for every death that eats up all your winnings or (yakes!) get kicked out after waiting on a GF half-way through and get ONLY the costs. ANd you will potentially buy more abuse as well, as people in a PvE environment have time for fighting it out between themselves as well. Thankfully, in a wz, the opponents at least keep them busy enough to not worry too much about others' shortcomings. Mostly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridickilis Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I'm confused as well, there is no way expertise can go down just by simply putting on a few pieces of pvp gear as you get them. The only way to bork expertise is to mix and match pve and pvp mods into the same piece of gear or using too high a rated pve item. Bolster checks one item at a time, not the entire set. Don't put expertise crystals in a pve weapon/offhand and don't remove the expertise crystals from a pvp weapon/off hand. Now, some of your other stats may fluctuate because stock pvp gear isn't optimized and I'm guessing your pve stuff is pretty much where you wanted it. There will still be some min/maxing and you'll need to start swapping out some mods and enhancements for better optimized one's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomiSotto Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I've only seen mods on the vendor. Do they have enhancements on a separate one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) I'm confused as well, there is no way expertise can go down just by simply putting on a few pieces of pvp gear as you get them. That's exactly what's happening. Because of bolster. Edited September 2, 2014 by Vember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridickilis Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) Yes, he's well hidden. Only if you know the password may you purchase enhancements from him. The oberon enhancement vender is in between the agent and bounty hunter pvp vendors up against the back wall. The Brut enhancement vendor is in between the warrior and inquisitor pvp vender, back wall again. That's exactly what's happening. Because of bolster. You keep saying this, but that doesn't make it true. I;ve been juggling 3 toons lately, all on varying degrees of pvp gear (one almost done, other's just a few pieces) and I have 2018 expertise on all of them. One toon even has conqueror relics, main and offhand and still has 2018 expertise because the expertise values haven't changed since Conq/Partisan. If you can, show screenies of each piece of gear outside of warzones, that will be the best way to identify where bolster is shorting your expertise. Edited September 2, 2014 by Ridickilis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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