Dye Pack/Color Content Alteration

[Nogatsby]

Hey there, I know this has probably been considered or suggested before, but wanted to mention it.

 

What about, instead of Dye Packs, there was a Cartel-Based 'Dye Market', where the packs were prices in Credits/Cartel Coins like other more standard upgrades, and they could be specifically chosen? The Mods still cost, so the money is still going back into the game, but people can get the packs they want. There could even be a different cost than the random packs, based on desirability of the colors. You could buy the random pack as normal now, but if you specifically wanted say Dark Blue/Black, you could pay twice the Cartel Coins to get the colors you wanted.

 

The same system could apply to Blaster/Lightsaber Color. Want the White Crystal or Purple or Orange? They would be available at a higher cost than the random chance you may get it.

 

What do ya'll think?

[Ratajack]

Hey there, I know this has probably been considered or suggested before, but wanted to mention it.

 

What about, instead of Dye Packs, there was a Cartel-Based 'Dye Market', where the packs were prices in Credits/Cartel Coins like other more standard upgrades, and they could be specifically chosen? The Mods still cost, so the money is still going back into the game, but people can get the packs they want. There could even be a different cost than the random packs, based on desirability of the colors. You could buy the random pack as normal now, but if you specifically wanted say Dark Blue/Black, you could pay twice the Cartel Coins to get the colors you wanted.

 

The same system could apply to Blaster/Lightsaber Color. Want the White Crystal or Purple or Orange? They would be available at a higher cost than the random chance you may get it.

 

What do ya'll think?

 

That idea would have a severe impact on the CM, I believe. There is a reason why dye packs still sell. There is a reason why the highly desired dyes and color crystals are so expensive on the GTN. They are rare.

 

Selling them directly as opposed to random drops in gambling packs would severely reduce the rarity and value of those items.

 

I would prefer to keep them rare. Before anyone makes any accusations about me, I'm not buying packs to sell the dyes or crystals on the GTN. I buy the dyes and crystals I want directly. I just buy them on the GTN, at the going rates.

[Altheran]

At this point, I'd agree with anything that would be a change from the system we have now.

 

 

If it were up to me, dyes would have been "à la carte", or maybe in a system where some colors or sets of colors have to be unlocked, or...

... anything where color combination is up to the player.

 

I have never understood the choice for the random dyes among a preset of existing combination. Dyes are not like every item : when you want to dye an item, you have one and only one color in mind. You're normally not interested in any other item that may come from a random pack. It makes buying a random dye the wrong choice.

 

In the end, the ones who'll buy the dyes, are those that are not interested in the dyes, but merchandizing them on the GTN.

It would be somewhat okay, only if the available combination wasn't questionable.

 

Some colors like pink + pale yellow are just... unwearable, unsellable.

Some are probably ones amongst of the ugliest color combination I ever saw, and that is only more ugly when put on clothes or armor.

These are nothing but money waste. Real money waste.

 

I don't mind the concept of buying something random, that may not hold value for you but for someone else, but I mind the concept of buying something that has litterally no value.

 

Only if the color were at least separated, myself or anyone could be interested by at least one of the colors or the ugly combinations, but in this exact combination they're just meant to go in the trash bin.

[Nogatsby]

That idea would have a severe impact on the CM, I believe. There is a reason why dye packs still sell. There is a reason why the highly desired dyes and color crystals are so expensive on the GTN. They are rare.

 

Selling them directly as opposed to random drops in gambling packs would severely reduce the rarity and value of those items.

 

I would prefer to keep them rare. Before anyone makes any accusations about me, I'm not buying packs to sell the dyes or crystals on the GTN. I buy the dyes and crystals I want directly. I just buy them on the GTN, at the going rates.

 

It would impact the CM and the GTN, no doubt, but it isn't like Dyes behave like a lot of other items, or even other mods. They get destroyed if you remove them from items, so there's less shelf-life and compatibility to them. And there will still be plenty of items on the GTN or the CM that work the way they do now. I'm not against opening up the GTN and CM more. I think that items should have an "Unbound" option to them if you are looking to sell them. The Dyes and Color Crystals just don't seem like they need to be as rare/expensive as they need to be.

[Ratajack]

At this point, I'd agree with anything that would be a change from the system we have now.

 

 

If it were up to me, dyes would have been "à la carte", or maybe in a system where some colors or sets of colors have to be unlocked, or...

... anything where color combination is up to the player.

 

I have never understood the choice for the random dyes among a preset of existing combination. Dyes are not like every item : when you want to dye an item, you have one and only one color in mind. You're normally not interested in any other item that may come from a random pack. It makes buying a random dye the wrong choice.

 

In the end, the ones who'll buy the dyes, are those that are not interested in the dyes, but merchandizing them on the GTN.

It would be somewhat okay, only if the available combination wasn't questionable.

 

Some colors like pink + pale yellow are just... unwearable, unsellable.

Some are probably ones amongst of the ugliest color combination I ever saw, and that is only more ugly when put on clothes or armor.

These are nothing but money waste. Real money waste.

 

I don't mind the concept of buying something random, that may not hold value for you but for someone else, but I mind the concept of buying something that has litterally no value.

 

Only if the color were at least separated, myself or anyone could be interested by at least one of the colors or the ugly combinations, but in this exact combination they're just meant to go in the trash bin.

 

I agree that random dyes done in single colors as opposed to combinations of primary and secondary would have been better. We are stuck with what we have, though. We have to work within the limits of the system put in place by BW.

 

Some people choose to spend real money on the dye packs and sell those packs unopened. Yes, real money is being spent, but the person spending the real money is getting value for their money but selling the unopened packs.

 

The person who chooses to purchase those dye packs and open them, hoping to hit the jackpot, is gambling. Sometimes gamblers win. More often, they do not. If a player is going to gamble and hope to hit he jackpot, then they have no room to complain when they bust, IMO.

[Ratajack]

It would impact the CM and the GTN, no doubt, but it isn't like Dyes behave like a lot of other items, or even other mods. They get destroyed if you remove them from items, so there's less shelf-life and compatibility to them. And there will still be plenty of items on the GTN or the CM that work the way they do now. I'm not against opening up the GTN and CM more. I think that items should have an "Unbound" option to them if you are looking to sell them. The Dyes and Color Crystals just don't seem like they need to be as rare/expensive as they need to be.

 

This, IMO, is the real impetus behind your request.

 

I'm guessing that there is a dye out there that you want (probably black/black as that seems to be the most desired) and you don't want to pay the going rates on the GTN or gamble on getting it from a pack.

 

If it is black/black or white/white, those two color combinations have been sold directly on the CM several times. Those sales have been very limited time sales, though. I'm going to guess that they will be available for direct purchase on the CM again at some point in the future..

[Nogatsby]

I agree that random dyes done in single colors as opposed to combinations of primary and secondary would have been better. We are stuck with what we have, though. We have to work within the limits of the system put in place by BW.

 

Some people choose to spend real money on the dye packs and sell those packs unopened. Yes, real money is being spent, but the person spending the real money is getting value for their money but selling the unopened packs.

 

The person who chooses to purchase those dye packs and open them, hoping to hit the jackpot, is gambling. Sometimes gamblers win. More often, they do not. If a player is going to gamble and hope to hit he jackpot, then they have no room to complain when they bust, IMO.

 

I can agree with you on the gambling aspect. I just think there should be a more straightforward option as well, maybe at a larger real money/in-game cost. It isn't like, for a lot of these Dyes, that hard work in the game will yield them past just purchasing with resources other aspects of the game require, like say crafting or side-missions would be an avenue for them. Gambling is the only option, it seems, for a lot of these. Or exceptionally high purchase cost in the GTN. And we don't have to be stuck with any system. I mean, that's why there's a suggestion section, yeah?

[Nogatsby]

This, IMO, is the real impetus behind your request.

 

I'm guessing that there is a dye out there that you want (probably black/black as that seems to be the most desired) and you don't want to pay the going rates on the GTN or gamble on getting it from a pack.

 

If it is black/black or white/white, those two color combinations have been sold directly on the CM several times. Those sales have been very limited time sales, though. I'm going to guess that they will be available for direct purchase on the CM again at some point in the future..

 

You're opinion, and you are welcome to it, but it's incorrect. I'm not really jonesing for any dyes and/or crystals at the moment (a Dark Blue/Black may be cool, but I digress).

 

The impetus is accessibility. I like the game. I want to see it more accessible. I want to see more players. Aesthetics matter to players, and there are ways to get around burnout/lockout that's caused by the systems in the game.

 

No doubt, self-serving reasons exist. And I'm sure in the future there would be a crystal or dye that I'd just love to have. I would just like it to be more available to me, to any other player, that want to make the game a little more theirs in a small way.

 

And Sales are good. And if they are able to create the sales at those times, they are able to sell the dyes individually. It's not a new alien system; just an expansion of what is in place already.

[Orizuru]

I'll be honest and admit that I'm an opportunist who loves seeing certain dyes show up in the random dye packs because I already have the color scheme I want for my armor and enjoy the profits I make on the GTN with the rarer dyes. Because of this, I would not support buying individual colors directly on the CM because it would have an adverse effect on an aspect of the market/economy that I prefer to capitalize upon.

 

However, I would not be opposed to more crafting options for dyes. More options for crafted dyes would still allow rare items to remain rare and valuable for people like myself, while also providing more options that allow a player to choose a particular color they wanted. They could even make it very easy to obtain the schematics for the popular dyes, providing the mats needed to craft one are indicative of the items rarity/value.

[Mlnvifun]

How about if they made dyes collection items?

 

1. Players would still buy the packs/individual dyes on the GTN 2 get the colours they want

2. Packs on the CM will not be directly affected, as they can stay the same as they r now (random yield)

And lastly, 2 apply the same dye 2 another toon, players would have 2 either purchase the dye again on the GTN as they do now or use CCs 2 unlock account-wide, and players who sell will not lose revenue since new players join SWTOR every day;)

Edited September 2, 2014 by Mlnvifun

[Nogatsby]

How about if they made dyes collection items?

 

1. Players would still buy the packs/individual dyes on the GTN 2 get the colours they want

2. Packs on the CM will not be directly affected, as they can stay the same as they r now (random yield)

And lastly, 2 apply the same dye 2 another toon, players would have 2 either purchase the dye again on the GTN as they do now or use CCs 2 unlock account-wide, and players who sell will not lose revenue since new players join SWTOR every day;)

 

That seems like a fair compromise; the GTN still gets the purchases like mentioned by Orizuru, but there's a sort of "Legacy Dye Fabricator" through the Cartel Market?

[Mlnvifun]

That seems like a fair compromise; the GTN still gets the purchases like mentioned by Orizuru, but there's a sort of "Legacy Dye Fabricator" through the Cartel Market?

 

I'm not sure that I understand ur question

 

If ur asking if there's dyes available on the CM that r B2L then no

If ur asking if there's an item that allows u to craft dye modules that r currently equipped on 1 of ur other toons on the CM then idk but I don't think so

If ur asking if I think such an item should be added 2 the CM then yes, I say go 4 it, I will sign

If ur saying that there already is such an item and r wondering y idk about it, it's coz I focus mostly on the armour and weapons:o

Edited September 15, 2014 by Mlnvifun

[drug_cartel]

The primary function of the Armor Dyes is to provide Character Customization. While the side benefit of Cartel Market economy is nice, that is not the core purpose of this feature of the game.

 

Currently there are over 30 different colors that the dye pallets can pull from. When put in the form of Primary/Second combinations, that means there will be over 900 different Dyes.

 

Currently dyes are being released through Cartel Packs at the rate of 2-3 per Pack. This means that in order to complete all the different combinations of just the existing colors, it will take Bioware's development team over twenty years.

 

In other words, the current dye system has failed to perform it's primary function. The majority (80% or more) of color combinations will never be available in game. The current system is functionally equivalent to requiring every dye use some shade of Yellow; the combinations that a given player wants may never be made available simply because Bioware has determined that additional color combinations are not worth the investment of resources to be released in a timely manner. New color combinations are barely an afterthought.

 

While I appreciate the fact that people make money buying Dyes from the Cartel Market and reselling them later, that's not the purpose of the Dye system. The purpose of the Dye system is to permit players to dye their armor and have increased character customization. The current system is not capable of fulfilling that lofty undertaking during the lifespan of the game.

 

Dye's need to be changed in order to allow them to work as intended. While I don't suggest the same system originally lobbied for here, a change does need to be made. As I doubt a change to the Cartel Packs is going to start bringing in the 50+ dye combos each Pack that we would need to get through all the different options, I recommend grossly simplifying what they have made overcomplicated.

 

Primary Dye and Secondary Dye should be separate slots. You socket something into Primary Dye, it only dyes the Primary color. You socket something into Secondary Dye slot, it only uses the Secondary Dye color. Then the responsibility falls to the players to obtain the two dyes that they need to make the combination they want. New additions in future packs would be actual new colors (like the "Darker Red" that gets requested).

 

There will always be Cartel Market stuff that can be bought and resold. That is no reason to leave a clearly broken system broken.

[LyraineAlei]

 

Primary Dye and Secondary Dye should be separate slots. You socket something into Primary Dye, it only dyes the Primary color. You socket something into Secondary Dye slot, it only uses the Secondary Dye color. Then the responsibility falls to the players to obtain the two dyes that they need to make the combination they want. New additions in future packs would be actual new colors (like the "Darker Red" that gets requested).

 

There will always be Cartel Market stuff that can be bought and resold. That is no reason to leave a clearly broken system broken.

 

The two dye slots would be lovely. I would actually buy some dyes from the CM if this were an option.

 

At this point, I'm looking at what my Artificer can make and sighing because Dark Blue/Green looks awful on any outfit I throw together. And I wish there were more dyes Artificers could make, reputation required or not, just more.

 

Another thought: Weapons dyes.

 

Not like the crystals, but more like that brown rifle my Operative carries can finally match her Covert Agent uniform so I can have it black. Or so my BH can have her blasters match each other in color. Or maybe I don't want my Sage running around with a brown lightsaber, but something gray like metal.

[LordMeowth]

There is a lot going on in this thread, and my comment is a different from how this conversation was progressing.

 

I find the current dye system distasteful. There are two aspects that I don't like and keep me from spending any money on dyes. First, the pack method isn't good for distributing dyes, you don't get what you want and it is pretty expensive. Second, the dyes are not reusable, which means that you will pretty much only bother to invest in a dye for end game gear. People should be able to get the dyes they want, and the system should get folks buying dyes early (and feeling good about it).

 

Lets for the moment assume that nobody already invested in the current dye system would get upset with a new system and discus some alternatives (I'll get to compromises rather than entire new systems soon). An excellent color system that I'm happy to buy into can be found in Warframe. In warframe you buy color palettes (usually themed for a faction, a mood, or a tone) for about $5. You get like 50 colors for $5, and can mix and match them between palletes. This includes energy colors (weapon / partical effects). This is a very player friendly way to monetize colors. You can use those colors on all your characters and change them at will once you purchase them.

 

Another game to look at that monetizes customization well is APB. That game for all of its flaws has fantastic character customization. In that case free to play players have only a few options when it comes to customization, but subscribers can go hog wild. This could be applied to swtor by having subscribers able to access a color wheel when selecting colors (effectively making their own dyes). Free to play and preferred would have to use the color packs and crafted dyes currently available. This would add a ton of value to being a subscriber.

 

Some half measures would be to break each of the dyes into primary and secondary and add a primary and secondary dye slot. This would dramatically decrease the absolute number of color dye items, making getting the colors you want more manageable. Existing dyes could be broken up into their components, or just left the way they are. This would increase the value of dye modules by a fair bit so long as the drop rate for any specific color was about equal from the packs.

 

Another option that would be a swtor way of improving the value of dye modules would be to have them interact with collections. I would happily pay 200 cartel coins to add a dye to my collection. This would potentially get me somewhat on board with the dye module system. This way I know that I only need to get exceptionally lucky once or pay an obscene amount of credits once. I find the current state of crystals much better than the state of dyes.

 

Yet another option is to expand the dyes available to artifice. The non rep locked dyes are really ugly, and nobody wants them. More options for crafted dyes combined with the primary / secondary slot idea above could really help. Dyes could be expensive / time consuming to make. Some colors could also be rare remain cartel items. Or the popular colors like black / white would only show up if subbed when using the crafted version.

 

I'm not against swtor making money off colors / customization, I just want the scheme to be pro player / customization. The current system is hostile to players. I'll probably only ever use the rep dyes until the system sees big changes. That is money that I (and perhaps others) would otherwise be willing to spend.

 

I think people would readily buy into the color palette scheme. I also think that free color customization for subs would increase sub rates. Collections support would be an acceptable bandaid. Expanded crafting options would be an improvement, but probably not enough of one.

[XiamaraSimi]

Slightly side topic here, but black/blue dyes and crystals were mentioned, both are craftable by artificers, you just have to find one that ground out the factions that sell the schematics.