52 PVP conquest missions vs 188 conquest PVE missions

[Jendrick]

You're confusing content with rewards and anyway 55 HMs are the same lowbie flashpoints we did when leveling up so it's just rehashed content. This is all besides the point anyway.

 

Neither PvP players nor PvE benefit from PvE objectives being restricted how they are. PvP players will continue to play PvP like they always do, but PvE players will be 'forced' to do flashpoints that don't benefit them at end game.

 

You're the one who linked content to the validity of the rewards in the above post. So what if they're the same fp's you ran as a lowbie, but tailored to your level? Those are the same warzones I ran as a lowbie, with a bracket at my level. Why is you having to repeat content "rehashed" but me repeating content "like I always do" I want to run rehashed content just as much as you do. I just have less rehashed content and for some reason you're writing it off as playing PvP like always. is there another way?

 

Not all pvp'rs benefit from warzone commendations. I've had a maxed brutalizer suit 3 weeks after it was introduced. a lot of pvp'rs do. I go to areas flagged hoping to find the opposition flagged also... I rarely ever do, but there's no benefit to that either. I think I've seen one guy in the past 2 months on oricon.

[Transairion]

You can't solo 50 HM fps? Well... that explains your whining.

 

Neither did any of the exploiters, they stealthed past everything up to bonus/final boss then invited 3 more people in and got what.... 2000 per person, so 8000 for the guild without doing much at all? And that's without invasion multipliers.

 

 

The solution was to make every boss a requirement, not make them WEEKLIES.

[MadHobbit]

Don't forget the boost to marketing. Now they can say in meetings and with the press that they have had a upswing in players PVPing. Which may be true, but they don't have to say its because of a nerf to PVE. my main toon has a lvl 12 in valor. that is after2 years. its because of how little I like to PVP. my strongholds only have 1 item in each a legacy storage, so I dont grind for any drops. there is a youtube video about what will be in store for SWTOR and how the servers will be coming down in about 2 years. And what SWTOR 2.0 will be like .SO basicly I see all this new stuff as a long term BETA of things they want to put in the 2.0 version, to find out the types of exploits and such .

[CloudzDeven]

Those are the same warzones I ran as a lowbie, with a bracket at my level. Why is you having to repeat content "rehashed" but me repeating content "like I always do" I want to run rehashed content just as much as you do.

The difference is that same rehashed content you play still gives you rewards you can use. Having 'max' gear is a bit of a gray zone because it brings up the question of "what to do next" I imagine the majority of PvPs and PvEs haven't maxed out their gear. For everyone who hasn't maxed out their gear on the pve side the gear from these flashpoints don't help. On the PvP side those comms are useful up until the moment you've got all your gear.

 

In other words if you aren't in full 180/186 doing these conquest objectives does nothing for you. If you aren't in full 162(?) gear doing those WZ are still useful.

[Jendrick]

The difference is that same rehashed content you play still gives you rewards you can use. Having 'max' gear is a bit of a gray zone because it brings up the question of "what to do next" I imagine the majority of PvPs and PvEs haven't maxed out their gear. For everyone who hasn't maxed out their gear on the pve side the gear from these flashpoints don't help. On the PvP side those comms are useful up until the moment you've got all your gear.

 

In other words if you aren't in full 180/186 doing these conquest objectives does nothing for you. If you aren't in full 162(?) gear doing those WZ are still useful.

 

even so, the amount of content dwarfs the content of pvp.. I see your angle, but both sides have pluses and minuses. I'll trade you my plus/minus for yours anyday. If a pvp'r does have maxed gear, there's NOTHING in this game beneficial to them. In PvE you may not have personal motivation, but you have a variety of conent. PvP is no variety of content. it's always the same.

 

You may not like NOT being able to grind out conquest by doing the same content over and over, but that doesn't mean that PvP'rs being stuck in the same, limited, repetitive grind is somehow a blessing. If there were conquest objectives for PvP that didn't involve comms, they would be played. but as it stands, there's only one thing PvP'rs CAN do, so it all has to funnel into that limited amount of content.

 

I'm sorry, but it doesn't seem you can have it both ways. You can't have frequent additions to the game giving you more PvE content and then complain about how the rewards from PvP are so easily attained and PvE is so spread out. They're that way because that aspect of the game has been so neglected. there's nowhere else to put the rewards.

[CloudzDeven]

I'm sorry, but it doesn't seem you can have it both ways. You can't have frequent additions to the game giving you more PvE content and then complain about how the rewards from PvP are so easily attained and PvE is so spread out. They're that way because that aspect of the game has been so neglected. there's nowhere else to put the rewards.

 

But that's the thing, they made PvE worse in comparison to PvP instead of making PvP actually attractive to PvE players. Same thing with Dark Projects and crafting vs killing commanders. The option is there, but it's not viable. PvE players aren't doing PvP because the rewards are better(which they aren't since it's 500 vs. 1000), they're doing it because PvE conquest is meh at best. If they want people to do PvP they shouldn't 'nerf' everything else to make PvP the only sane option, they should make the rewards competitive so people have to decide between long, but easy flashpoints and short and (somewhat) challenging PvP.

 

I don't mind grinding out the same flashpoints over and over again. What I do mind is grinding a game mode I don't like. There's only a false sense of choice here. If they want more people to do PvP then make the rewards or game modes enticing. You don't reduce other content to make it seem better in comparison.

[BuriDogshin]

The solution was to make every boss a requirement, not make them WEEKLIES.

And PER LEGACY weeklies at that.

[RoadyRagey]

...Ok so ive read like a million of these threads and i always come back to thinking one thing....

 

Since when was pvp soley for pvpers? I mean ok yes there are people that just point blank refuse to do pvp for whatever reason.....

 

But from what i see people are complaining because EVERYONE can repeat wzs for conquest points? Now forgive me for being naive and stupid here.... But ANYONE can queue for WZ's... ANYONE can do these repeatable missions....

 

I keep hearing how PVP guilds have an advantage? Well they have no more advantage than any other guild, They CHOOSE to PVP....

 

And again NOTHING is stopping ANY Guild from doing PvP....So NOTHING is stopping ANY Guild from gaining points that way.

 

All i see is people complaining like they CANNOT do the repeatable missions? NO one has an advantage over anyone its just if youre that dedicated to getting your guild to number 1....

 

I personally have no interest in conquests, So ill just stick to my PVE and PVP as per usual....

[dscount]

I think BW stepped in it big time on this one. End result is going to turn people away from Conquest all together.

 

They didn't do QA like they said they would (Delay announcement a couple weeks ago) and now we are stuck with stupid design decisions and lack of thought by BW on what could go wrong. (I went looking for the announcement in DEV's area, but didn't find it. - Please link if you have it)

[Jendrick]

But that's the thing, they made PvE worse in comparison to PvP instead of making PvP actually attractive to PvE players. Same thing with Dark Projects and crafting vs killing commanders. The option is there, but it's not viable. PvE players aren't doing PvP because the rewards are better(which they aren't since it's 500 vs. 1000), they're doing it because PvE conquest is meh at best. If they want people to do PvP they shouldn't 'nerf' everything else to make PvP the only sane option, they should make the rewards competitive so people have to decide between long, but easy flashpoints and short and (somewhat) challenging PvP.

 

I don't mind grinding out the same flashpoints over and over again. What I do mind is grinding a game mode I don't like. There's only a false sense of choice here. If they want more people to do PvP then make the rewards or game modes enticing. You don't reduce other content to make it seem better in comparison.

 

if PvE is meh, and PvP isn't attractive without rewards tied to them... I don't know what to tell you.

 

You're going to have to stick to the same narrative.

 

are you upset because you can't get gear comms while doing conquest in some of the PvE, and PvP always gives comms? I said it before, it's because PvP is limited in the amount of total content. It's hardly anything by comparison. grinding fp's gives you comms towards your goal. so does WZ's. if you're already in maxed gear in this game, neither game mode is beneficial towards your gear goals, cause you've already met them.

 

but after that you said rewards don't matter, it's just the content that's meh. But then again in the same post you say that BW should entice people to PvP by making the rewards enticing.

 

no offense... but pick a lane.

[CloudzDeven]

snip

You misunderstood me. For anyone who is 55(or really 53), not just max gear, the classic comms you get from 50 HM flashpoints are useless. You don't have to be in full 180/186. Even a fresh 55 doesn't need classic comms. Even the 156 armor you get from the Oricon questline is better. If the flashpoints were the 55 HM ones I'd have less of an issue since those give elite or even the tacticals because they give basic comms. Up until the moment the PvP player has max gear the WZ comms are useful. See the difference? It gives them the rewards they need up until the final moment they have the highest possible gear. It's not about how fun the content is, it's about how rewarding the content is. Classic comms and lvl 50 armor aren't useful rewards so the only reason to do it will be because of the conquest points. Getting to 55 is extremely quick so grinding out classic comms for lvl 50 armor is pointless as well.

 

PvE isn't meh, doing PvE flashpoints that don't give me any rewards I can use is meh. I still do tacticals and HM 55s in addition to operations. I imagine the majority of PvPers don't have max armor and neither do PvE players so while you may say the comms don't matter to you I'm guessing they do for a lot of people.

 

 

Also as far as elite and basic comms go for progression at max gear level, I can still use those basic for Isotope-5 and if I really wanted to I could use both for a MMG. Classic comms don't have that usefulness

 

[BaronV]

 

I personally have no interest in conquests, So ill just stick to my PVE and PVP as per usual....

 

Thats all you needed to say instead of coming up with all that nonsense above it.

 

1) Some people dont like to pve and only like to pvp. They get to do what they like as much as they want and have no limit to the conquest points they earn while doing what they like

 

2) Some people dont like to pvp and only like to pve. They can only earn conquests points once a day or sometimes once a week doing what they like and after that are FORCED to do something they dont like if they want to remain competitive in conquests.

 

3) And there are people who like to do both and have the freedom of doing whatever they like.

 

Why do some people just not see the injustice of number 2??

Edited August 30, 2014 by BaronV

[Grayseven]

Thats all you needed to say instead of coming up with all that nonsense above it.

 

1) Some people dont like to pve and only like to pvp. They get to do what they like as much as they want and have no limit to the conquest points they earn while doing what they like

 

2) Some people dont like to pvp and only like to pve. They can only earn conquests points once a day or sometimes once a week doing what they like and after that are FORCED to do something they dont like if they want to remain competitive in conquests.

 

3) And there are people who like to do both and have the freedom of doing whatever they like.

 

Why do some people just not see the injustice of number 2??

 

Because there isn't any injustice, that's why.

 

I have easily...EASILY...hit my personal 35k number on multiple toons. I have done both PvE and PvP and it is much, much easier to hit the personal goal with PvE than PvP. PvP takes too much time and rewards less than I get with PvE.

 

You are not being forced to do anything. If you don't want to PvP to remain competitive then lay off on the weeks where PvP goals are dominant and wait for the PvE and crafting weeks while building up your crafting stocks.

 

I'll agree to PvP being limited daily the moment that crafting is limited in the same way.

 

Ultimately, the entire purpose of Conquest was the same as every other "event"...to encourage players to try out the various possibilities within the game. If you don't want to do that or can't deal with it, move on. No one is buying your attempted martyrdom.

[Jendrick]

You misunderstood me. For anyone who is 55(or really 53), not just max gear, the classic comms you get from 50 HM flashpoints are useless. You don't have to be in full 180/186. Even a fresh 55 doesn't need classic comms. Even the 156 armor you get from the Oricon questline is better. If the flashpoints were the 55 HM ones I'd have less of an issue since those give elite or even the tacticals because they give basic comms. Up until the moment the PvP player has max gear the WZ comms are useful. See the difference? It gives them the rewards they need up until the final moment they have the highest possible gear. It's not about how fun the content is, it's about how rewarding the content is. Classic comms and lvl 50 armor aren't useful rewards so the only reason to do it will be because of the conquest points. Getting to 55 is extremely quick so grinding out classic comms for lvl 50 armor is pointless as well.

 

PvE isn't meh, doing PvE flashpoints that don't give me any rewards I can use is meh. I still do tacticals and HM 55s in addition to operations. I imagine the majority of PvPers don't have max armor and neither do PvE players so while you may say the comms don't matter to you I'm guessing they do for a lot of people.

 

 

Also as far as elite and basic comms go for progression at max gear level, I can still use those basic for Isotope-5 and if I really wanted to I could use both for a MMG. Classic comms don't have that usefulness

 

You're all over the place with this though... the rewards don't matter because PvE content is Meh and boring, but it's meh because the rewards suddenly DO matter and they're just not there. do you want to conquer the planet or do you want gear? In one post you're even saying that the only viable 55 content you have is DF/DP, but then you can find a way to make anything that gives more than classic comms viable. I know you can sell MMG's and Iso's with basic comms. If you want the conquest, run the flashpoints.

 

You make it seems like there's always PvP gear that PvP'rs are working towards.. there's 2 suits. just 2. you get those 2 and the comms you get can't buy iso's or be turned into MMG's either. I don't know why me getting backfilled with comms that do me no good is totally okay because I enjoy PvP, But you getting comms you can't use is unfair and now the rewards just aren't enticing enough for you to do the content.

 

You even say that *I* may not need them, but other pvp'rs do... well, same goes for you. if we have our gear, both comms are useless to us. You're playing a double standard. there isn't a MMG/Iso option for anything having to do with WZ comms, so... advantage you, I guess. ALL my comms are useless now. unless I want to trade em in for planetary comms

 

"If they want more people to do PvP then make the rewards or game modes enticing. You don't reduce other content to make it seem better in comparison" you want the rewards enticing to be motivated to go into PvP zones, but you don't want to go into PvP zones because then you're being forced into a false sense of choice and a playstyle you don't like merely because the reward is better... how is that not contradicting yourself?

 

not to sound snarky... but telling the most neglected player base that they're making out like bandits because they have little to do is not the way to go about this... You're not being shortchanged because the little bit of content given to PvP'rs always gives a reward. having so little content that you can't have conquest spread out is not an advantage

[CloudzDeven]

You're all over the place with this though... the rewards don't matter because PvE content is Meh and boring, but it's meh because the rewards suddenly DO matter and they're just not there. do you want to conquer the planet or do you want gear? In one post you're even saying that the only viable 55 content you have is DF/DP, but then you can find a way to make anything that gives more than classic comms viable. I know you can sell MMG's and Iso's with basic comms. If you want the conquest, run the flashpoints.

I don't see where I said the rewards for PvE don't matter. I may have missed it, but I looked over my posts. My whole argument, besides the arbitrary cap only on PvE(which is the real issue anyway) is that giving us 50 flashpoints instead of 55 is a waste for a lot of people due to the rewards(146 armor) which don't help with progression at 55. The rewards do matter, so long as it's things we can actually use at max level. The rewards that level 50 HM flashpoints give do not matter. I mentiomed basic/elite gear because you mentioned 180 gear from comms, which not always is better than the 168 version. Daily tacticals give basic for the bosses and elite for completing the daily reward. They're also lvl 55 flashpoints so I'm not just set on BW ONLY making the 55 HM ones the objectives. Just nothing 5 levels below the cap.

 

You make it seems like there's always PvP gear that PvP'rs are working towards.. there's 2 suits. just 2. you get those 2 and the comms you get can't buy iso's or be turned into MMG's either. I don't know why me getting backfilled with comms that do me no good is totally okay because I enjoy PvP, But you getting comms you can't use is unfair and now the rewards just aren't enticing enough for you to do the content.

It's unfair(which isn't even what I said) because even at max level, until you get the best gear comms are useful at your level. At max level(not even taking into account gear) classic comms are not useful. Imagine if WZ comms only gave you lvl 50 armor instead of 55. I wouldn't bring up the comm issue if it was elite/basic, but we're in the same boat more or less with classic although WZ can still get you that armor. We're talking about the majority and my spolier for was if you are in the minority with full gear.

 

You even say that *I* may not need them, but other pvp'rs do... well, same goes for you. if we have our gear, both comms are useless to us. You're playing a double standard. there isn't a MMG/Iso option for anything having to do with WZ comms, so... advantage you, I guess. ALL my comms are useless now. unless I want to trade em in for planetary comms

Like I said in an earlier post, this is more of a gray area because it brings up the question of what to do next. You enjoy PvP not just for the gear I imagine, but for the challenge of going up against other players? You don't go around DK dueling lvl 10s do you? That's how it feels at 55 doing lvl 50 content. While we have the advantage in what to do with our comms, classic comms don't do anything for us.

 

"If they want more people to do PvP then make the rewards or game modes enticing. You don't reduce other content to make it seem better in comparison" you want the rewards enticing to be motivated to go into PvP zones, but you don't want to go into PvP zones because then you're being forced into a false sense of choice and a playstyle you don't like merely because the reward is better... how is that not contradicting yourself?

 

not to sound snarky... but telling the most neglected player base that they're making out like bandits because they have little to do is not the way to go about this... You're not being shortchanged because the little bit of content given to PvP'rs always gives a reward. having so little content that you can't have conquest spread out is not an advantage

You keep putting words in my mouth. I never said you were making out like bandits. The amount of content we have is massive compared to you, you're right. At max level though what good is it? The content is lvl 50 vs our lvl 55, it gives classic(lvl 50) instead of basic/elite and while I won't get into the whole "playing against humans is more challenging and fresh than NPCs" it's the same content we've already done for years.

 

All I've ever advocated is getting rid of the weekly legacy cap(thought it was per character until BuriDogshin mentioned it was legacy, haven't done it since the patch) and adjusting the PvP conquest points to match PvE flashpoints. I want a buff to both PvE and PvP

 

As far as contractdicting myself. It's a false choice because of how PvE objectives work and what the flashpoints give. The reward shouldn't be better or worse. A real choice, if the objectives were repeatable and gave the same points would have the player deciding not based on conquest points, but which content they enjoy more. I, personally, don't enjoy WZ, but since it's the easiest way to farm CP I do it simply because I'm locked out of farming flashpoints. The fact that said flashpoints are 50 is just another downside.

 

 

I honestly don't like replying this way, but you made so many different slightly unrelated to each other points. We're kinda getting off topic when we discuss comm usage.

 

Edited August 30, 2014 by CloudzDeven

[Zoom_VI]

Good luck running those 50 HM FP's solo. When your buddies aren't on to help, what do?

 

 

I'll keep PvPing with randoms no matter the time of day, I can easily surpass 10,000 points...

 

You know PvPers can get 1000 points PER MATCH right? 10 PvP games too hard! That's just counting the partipation Conquest as well, I'm sure there's others. For GSF there's like 4 or 5 repeatable missions all giving boosted points.

 

PvP get 500 points per match unless you invade a planet that gives a PvP bonus. Don't like PvP? Don't invade the PvP planets.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[CloudzDeven]

PvP get 500 points per match unless you invade a planet that gives a PvP bonus. Don't like PvP? Don't invade the PvP planets.

 

But Hoth gives PvP and PvE bonuses and is the only one that gives a x2 bonus to operations. So if you don't like PvP don't invade a PvP or PvE planet

[Jendrick]

I honestly don't like replying this way, but you made so many different slightly unrelated to each other points. We're kinda getting off topic when we discuss comm usage.

 

You're the one who brought up comm usage when I mentioned that you have a variety PvP'rs don't have. Basically saying you don't have any extra motivation outside of conquest itself. You brought it up to counter the point that Pvp'rs have NO variety in their gameplay. Which I don't know why you're asking for sympathy about comms you can't use from people who spend 99% of their time attaining comms they can't use... I just don't think it's a good move to express your lack of interest due to useless rewards to people who are in that boat all the time. What you're complaining about now is where I'm at 3 weeks after the new armor is released... until more armor is released.

 

You keep telling me the different ways you can use your comms... like "at least if they were basic, I could spend em on iso's and MMG's to make money". We never get that option. Again, why should you have my sympathy about that? Countering that point with the fact that I enjoy my gameplay.. well.. it's similar to saying that you're very picky about your meal, but since I enjoy eating I should get whatever's leftover, so to speak.

 

I'm sorry, I can't speak for every server in the game, but I can speak for the one I play on. Right now on hoth 8 of the 10 guilds on the conquest list are almost totally absent in PvP zones. #8 and #10 are PvP guilds.. so, I personally can't understand why PvP'rs are a threat to the conquest boards... maybe it's different on your server, but that's how it is on mine *shrug*.

 

 

and yeah, set me lose on DK or any planet in the game and I'll go nuts on everyone I see until they take me down clawing and biting... and i'll enjoy every minute of it.

 

[Transairion]

PvP get 500 points per match unless you invade a planet that gives a PvP bonus. Don't like PvP? Don't invade the PvP planets.

 

So do Heroics. They're not repeatable once you do them all for the day, PvP is.

 

Why does one get unlimited 500 and the other get limited 500? Because "PvP is hard"? If it was "win a game of PvP" for the 500 then maybe, but it's just finish the game.

 

 

Don't like PvE? Don't invade the PvE planets.

 

Oh wait half the planets overlap, oops oh well.

 

 

 

Sorry but there's no denying it, you can repeat PvP activities infinitely but you can't do with the same with PvE anymore. I gave them solutions to keep it even/repeatable and just fix the exploit (which is what the patch was for, by the way, it wasn't a "bug" until people started skipping bosses and inviting 3 more players in for point padding).

 

"Variety" (I use that loosely, as most of the PvE objectives are irrelevant to a 55 player and are simply done for Conquest points and nothing else) doesn't mean much when they're not repeatable.