Conquest and Screwing PVEr's

[mikebevo]

Problem is that all PvE conquest content (for the most part) is all 1 time per day/week, compared to 10-15min PvP warzones/Starfighter matches

 

Not heroics, they are dailiy, Balmorra has about 10 of them on Republic side. With stronghold and guildship bonus was getting over 1000 per heroic. per heroic and some could be done in less that 5 mins. I got 4 character to over 35000 and two over 40K in three nights without using the fp exploit at all, without PvP and without GSF. One character I went from 0 to 37000 in less that 4 hours doing BH weekly, Ilum Heroic, 1 random tactial, Balmorra heroics, crafting 1 warsupply, 1 HM50 FP and 1 HM 55FP. I could have gotten a 5th character to 35000 last night, but guild needed healer for Ops Conquest runs (watchman is over 24k.

 

I didn't run The Esseles or Ilum FPs over and over and still reached my goal. Well my goal was actually to get my 2 healers to 35000, so I over reached because my goal became more about getting the guild to its goal. Football starts so guild will have to live with my over 170,000 points for this week unless I get back in town early Sunday.

 

Bottom line getting to 35000 is easy for a PvEer. However, expoiting the system to be number 1 on the leaderboard is now a little more difficult. I think they should have gone further and made it so characters 50 or over could not get points for SM The Esseles. Hell it felt like cheating to me doing the Balmorra heroics or HMFE or HMBoI on a 55 solo.

Edited August 29, 2014 by mikebevo

[jozimmie]

Bottom line getting to 35000 is easy for a PvEer. However, expoiting the system to be number 1 on the leaderboard is now a little more difficult. I think they should have gone further and made it so characters 50 or over could not get points for SM The Esseles. Hell it felt like cheating to me doing the Balmorra heroics or HMFE or HMBoI on a 55 solo.

 

Not saying that a pve'er can't reach the goal with just the heroics and whatnot, very easy to do that. but being competitive with pvp'ers is now nowhere close. I can do gsf this week or pvp last week and get 30k points an hour easy. Doing Heroics is about the same, I can run 2 sets of bal heroics and get that 30k points. Problem is that once I run through my limited about of toons, capped. The PVP can just keep going and going and going and going. in 4 hours i'm done running heroics and a quick fp or three with the guild per toon. Then I start to have to look at pvp as the only source of points for this conquest event. I propose that the same cap be placed on PVP content. wz's only reward for completing daily or weekly. Since the fixes the devs consider are nerfs, I think my last suggestion was pretty good.

[JeremyShelton]

So with the hot patch tonight we will no longer be able to re-run flashpoints more than ONE time per legacy per week? We can only do ONE random queue flashpoint for points per day because we have to be eligible for the daily bonus. We can only to the Weekly missions ONE time per week for points and we can only run the random Ops for points once every THREE days.

 

Yet PVP still counts for every match? How the hell are PVE gulids supposed to compete?

 

Ships are already hard to get plans for to open up unless you have a rather large guild so how are PVEr's suppose to keep up when we can earn only 19000 points on a character per week through PVE content and maybe 500-1000 more or so a day by doing heroics.

 

How do I get that number? Well if we cannot re-run PVE content for points we have this:

 

6 Random HM FPs: 6000

7 Weekly OP missions: 7000

Random OP Queues (1 every 3 days you MIGHT get 3 in): 6000

Then you MIGHT be able to get 500-1000 points a day doing heroics.

 

And yet each PVP match counts for 500-1000 points depending on the planet bonus, add in the weekly, and the fact that you can PVP all day and all night you can get as many points in ONE DAY as a PVEr might get in ONE WEEK.

 

I understand Bioware has been trying ram PVP down our throats since launch but some of us are simply NOT interested in their broken PVP system and this basically says to the PVEr's that 'Hey you don't matter to us.'

 

A group of 4 can run 4 Flashpoints just off of the Group Finder daily, so there is 8k per day. Plus Story mode x3 flashpoints is another 6k, plus hard mode x3 flashpoints is 9k, plus bonus bosses in hard mode is 9k. That's 32k per day per toon (roughly 2-3 hours of gameplay) just off of flashpoints and that is without double checking the repeat ability of the hard modes. Then you can run GSF or warzones the rest of the day. The win bonus is only for GSF this week.

[Zoom_VI]

Not saying that a pve'er can't reach the goal with just the heroics and whatnot, very easy to do that. but being competitive with pvp'ers is now nowhere close. I can do gsf this week or pvp last week and get 30k points an hour easy.

 

What? To get 30k points a hour you would have to run 30 warzones an hour..... Even last week with the 10 wins objective you would still need 26 warzones an hour, and that's assuming you won every single match.

 

Considering queue time is a couple minutes and matches are on average 12 minutes, that's not possible. Getting 5 warzones an hour is about as fast as you can go, and that's with lightning fast queues.

 

GSF has a even longer queue time, and often longer matches too.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[TUXs]

yeah I agree, 500 points per HM 55 flashpoint run seems fair. a HM flashpoint takes roughly as long as a PVP match to run. fairs fair

 

Agreed. 500 would have been the magical number, leave them repeatable. 3000 was crazy high...how they didn't think it was, is beyond me. Their solution is ridiculous.

[jozimmie]

What? To get 30k points a hour you would have to run 30 warzones an hour..... Even last week with the 10 wins objective you would still need 26 warzones an hour, and that's assuming you won every single match.

 

Considering queue time is a couple minutes and matches are on average 12 minutes, that's not possible. Getting 5 warzones an hour is about as fast as you can go, and that's with lightning fast queues.

 

GSF has a even longer queue time, and often longer matches too.

 

You can't change a devs mind with logic, only the mighty NERF can cure. Stop thinking about this and just NERF IT! NERF IT ALL DOWN!

 

Really what this boils down to is that the developers said the conquest system wouldn't cater to any one playstyle but that all playstyles would be able to contribute equally to this new system.

 

The new patch basically tells pve players that they must do pvp to compete... but in a balanced galaxy (that the devs say they strive for) it should be two sides of the same coin. If pve'ers must do pvp, pvp must be capped and pvp'ers forced to experience pve content. Only way to balance this issue.

 

Then you weren't doing pvp right, you should have been doing lowb pvp where matches are much quicker with a premade team. Our worst PVP'ers were hitting 20k points/hour, good ones hit 30-35k/hour. As for the queue times on pvp, move to a more populated server dude. If you're waiting regularly more than 60 seconds for a queue time to transfer.

[Khevar]

Agreed. 500 would have been the magical number, leave them repeatable. 3000 was crazy high...how they didn't think it was, is beyond me. Their solution is ridiculous.

I think Conquests would be MUCH better served by adding a greater variety of once-per-day PvE things to do.

 

Don't you think this would be better than having 2-4 flashpoints that could be "grinded" infinitely for 500 points each?

[JeremyShelton]

What? To get 30k points a hour you would have to run 30 warzones an hour..... Even last week with the 10 wins objective you would still need 26 warzones an hour, and that's assuming you won every single match.

 

Considering queue time is a couple minutes and matches are on average 12 minutes, that's not possible. Getting 5 warzones an hour is about as fast as you can go, and that's with lightning fast queues.

 

GSF has a even longer queue time, and often longer matches too.

 

To get 30k an hour (though my math has it short at 26k) you have to win farm ranked. I am guessing there were people doing that (guessing this was more common than we like on PvE servers based on what I have seen in the forums). With timers a ranked match can be as short as 3 minutes, but does require a 4 man opposing team to let you thrash them. Same deal as those solo stealthing BoI this week and then inviting 3 others in for the final boss and credit. Cut times from 20ish minutes per run to like 6 minutes.

[Zoom_VI]

Then you weren't doing pvp right, you should have been doing lowb pvp where matches are much quicker with a premade team. Our worst PVP'ers were hitting 20k points/hour, good ones hit 30-35k/hour. As for the queue times on pvp, move to a more populated server dude. If you're waiting regularly more than 60 seconds for a queue time to transfer.

 

bullsh*t. That would still be requiring you to finish a warzone every 4 minutes.

 

That is not possible. EVER

Edited August 29, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[JeremyShelton]

 

Then you weren't doing pvp right, you should have been doing lowb pvp where matches are much quicker with a premade team. Our worst PVP'ers were hitting 20k points/hour, good ones hit 30-35k/hour. As for the queue times on pvp, move to a more populated server dude. If you're waiting regularly more than 60 seconds for a queue time to transfer.

 

Which server are you on because I want to move there? Without ranked win farming this is not in anyway possible on the PvP server I am on. Matches are too competitive and regularly go the full time. Plus warzones like civil war, novare and hypergate have to take longer based on the timers even with capping all nodes for the whole thing.

[Khevar]

Our worst PVP'ers were hitting 20k points/hour, good ones hit 30-35k/hour.

Let's do some math:

 

500 point warzone x2 Hoth bonus +100% stronghold bonus == 1500 points per warzone

35,000 points per hour == 23 warzones

60 minutes / 23 warzones = 2.6 minutes per warzone.

 

Are your "best" PvPers are engaging in win trading for a <3 minute warzone?

[jozimmie]

BC Worst PVP in the Galaxy

[TUXs]

I think Conquests would be MUCH better served by adding a greater variety of once-per-day PvE things to do.

 

Don't you think this would be better than having 2-4 flashpoints that could be "grinded" infinitely for 500 points each?

Can you give me some examples? I like that the current system forces players back to areas that have been looooong forgotten (FE and BoI)...but the grinding will take its toll on players. Adding in too much variety would make every week feel the same...wouldn't it?

[TUXs]

Let's do some math:

 

500 point warzone x2 Hoth bonus +100% stronghold bonus == 1500 points per warzone

35,000 points per hour == 23 warzones

60 minutes / 23 warzones = 2.6 minutes per warzone.

 

Are your "best" PvPers are engaging in win trading for a <3 minute warzone?

 

LOL! Good work

[jozimmie]

So in my rant I was off a few k, good for you for being so smart Well I'm not bad at math either and with that infinity symbol next to pvp/gsf conquest objectives, you forgot to multiply your figures by 4-18 hours and that's what most pvpers do. So go ahead, recacalculate your total at the end of the day and tell me there's not a gulf between pve numbers and pvp

[Khevar]

Can you give me some examples? I like that the current system forces players back to areas that have been looooong forgotten (FE and BoI)...but the grinding will take its toll on players. Adding in too much variety would make every week feel the same...wouldn't it?

Well, I figure anything else should tie to the individual planets named in the conquests.

 

For example, most planets have a world boss. In this month's Conquest, the Grandfather, Snowblind, Gargath, Lucky should all be killable for points.

 

In addition to that there are a number of named Champions on those planets. I didn't even know they existed until I looked at the planetary achievement lists. Those should all be killable for points.

[TUXs]

So in my rant I was off a few k, good for you for being so smart Well I'm not bad at math either and with that infinity symbol next to pvp/gsf conquest objectives, you forgot to multiply your figures by 4-18 hours and that's what most pvpers do. So go ahead, recacalculate your total at the end of the day and tell me there's not a gulf between pve numbers and pvp

Most? How do you figure that? 4-18 hours a week? Or day??? You realize that the same could be said for anything PvE too right?

 

PvPers have ONE path to points. PvEers have multiple things they can do. The removal of making these repeatable was foolish and it needs to be reexamined...the points awarded were what threw them completely out of whack, not the repeatability.

[Khevar]

So in my rant I was off a few k, good for you for being so smart Well I'm not bad at math either and with that infinity symbol next to pvp/gsf conquest objectives, you forgot to multiply your figures by 4-18 hours and that's what most pvpers do. So go ahead, recacalculate your total at the end of the day and tell me there's not a gulf between pve numbers and pvp

If a PvE guild invaded Hoth this month, they only have themselves to blame.

 

/shrug

 

Let's also compare apples to apples. You're talking about PvPers that put in a ton of gameplay hours per day. By comparison most every PvE'er that puts in that kind of time is going to have MULTIPLE level 55s.

 

Suddenly the daily lockouts aren't a problem, hmmm?

Edited August 29, 2014 by Khevar

[BrianDavion]

If a PvE guild invaded Hoth this month, they only have themselves to blame.

 

/shrug

 

Let's also compare apples to apples. You're talking about PvPers that put in a ton of gameplay hours per day. By comparison most every PvE'er that puts in that kind of time is going to have MULTIPLE level 55s.

 

Suddenly the daily lockouts aren't a problem, hmmm?

 

except the personal objectives are per character not per legacy. and it doesn't matter where on the leaderboard you are if no one hits their personal goals.

[GadgetDon]

Not heroics, they are dailiy, Balmorra has about 10 of them on Republic side. With stronghold and guildship bonus was getting over 1000 per heroic. per heroic and some could be done in less that 5 mins. I got 4 character to over 35000 and two over 40K in three nights without using the fp exploit at all, without PvP and without GSF. One character I went from 0 to 37000 in less that 4 hours doing BH weekly, Ilum Heroic, 1 random tactial, Balmorra heroics, crafting 1 warsupply, 1 HM50 FP and 1 HM 55FP. I could have gotten a 5th character to 35000 last night, but guild needed healer for Ops Conquest runs (watchman is over 24k.

 

I didn't run The Esseles or Ilum FPs over and over and still reached my goal. Well my goal was actually to get my 2 healers to 35000, so I over reached because my goal became more about getting the guild to its goal. Football starts so guild will have to live with my over 170,000 points for this week unless I get back in town early Sunday.

 

Bottom line getting to 35000 is easy for a PvEer. However, expoiting the system to be number 1 on the leaderboard is now a little more difficult. I think they should have gone further and made it so characters 50 or over could not get points for SM The Esseles. Hell it felt like cheating to me doing the Balmorra heroics or HMFE or HMBoI on a 55 solo.

 

This week, PVE was pretty easy. Last week, not so much.

 

And frankly, I'd be just as happy if the heroics weren't repeatable (particularly if the flag was character based) or even weren't there at all - blasting through a heroic at 20 levels above it isn't interesting, it's grinding. What I want is the ability to do things at roughly my level (the group finder flashpoints do this) without so much effort that I can't do anything other than working on the conquests for a single character. Because this isn't an event, it's going to be part of the game play every week going forward and while I like that there's a new set of goals to work, I don't want to give up levelling new characters (would be nice if those mid-level characters had a shot as well).

[Khevar]

except the personal objectives are per character not per legacy. and it doesn't matter where on the leaderboard you are if no one hits their personal goals.

You can do the same heroics and flashpoints over again on multiple days, though. I don't see the problem.

 

Are you trying to say that infinitely repeatable flashpoints are necessary to make 35k in a single toon?

[Khevar]

I don't want to give up levelling new characters (would be nice if those mid-level characters had a shot as well).

This is a good idea. I don't see why leveling on one of the planets in this week's conquests shouldn't count points.

[TUXs]

Well, I figure anything else should tie to the individual planets named in the conquests.

 

For example, most planets have a world boss. In this month's Conquest, the Grandfather, Snowblind, Gargath, Lucky should all be killable for points.

 

In addition to that there are a number of named Champions on those planets. I didn't even know they existed until I looked at the planetary achievement lists. Those should all be killable for points.

All awesome suggestions!!! Good reply

[Zoom_VI]

So in my rant I was off a few k, good for you for being so smart

It was off by a lot more than a "few"

 

Well I'm not bad at math either and with that infinity symbol next to pvp/gsf conquest objectives, you forgot to multiply your figures by 4-18 hours and that's what most pvpers do.

 

Actually I think this comment is even more BS than the 35k an hour comment.

[Zoom_VI]

except the personal objectives are per character not per legacy. and it doesn't matter where on the leaderboard you are if no one hits their personal goals.

 

Dude personal goals on not even difficult to hit for PvE. Its actually significantly harder to get the personal goal as a PvP'er than it is a PvE'er. On my pub raiding guild, around of half of our active members had already hit the personal conquest goal on multiple toons. PvP wise, if you are not on Hoth it requires some 60+ matches per toon for the personal goal, and on hoth requires some 35 matches.

 

Oh and GF operation is a absurd amount of points between it and a the weekly, and the operation changes every couple of days, sooo.....

Edited August 29, 2014 by Zoom_VI