Zohkar Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Some thoughts: 1. You don't get to tell other players what to say or think on the forums. 2. You have zero crediblity about dealing with it internally since sixteen of your members were already cheesing the system (as opposed to say one or two, who did it without leadership knowing). 3. I think it's hilarious that even after all that lame whoring for points and with your guild name in the mud now, you still got second place. Congrats to Aisthesis. I totally believe that they didn't cheese the system becuase I saw their teams all over regs all week long. They were fun to play with and against, and I tip my hat to them. I agree with you, that I don't have the right to tell anyone what to do, but this post is and was all about congraduating Aisthesis, not flaming and running the risk of closing down the post giving kudos to their guild for winning the planet. Let it get handled internally by bioware because its their game and they can make adjustments to the system as they see fit. I'll also keep playing and helping anyone that asks for it and next week will try even harder for the next planet we try to conquer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headpunch Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) Congrats to Aisthesis for an excellent performance without having to resort to BS tactics! Heard plenty of reports of exploitative behavior from multiple guilds, but Aisthesis has never been mentioned as one that partook. To anybody exploiting Conquests, GG on making something that is 100% CASUAL CONTENT into something elitist. It's literally spam crafting, complete WZs, and GF FP the way to victory. All that takes is lots of members with alts, credits, and time. It brings the guild together, but isn't exactly a meaningful e-peen measuring contest. If you're going to be that much of a try hard, put that effort into improving your own play so you don't have to resort to cheating to succeed. Edited August 26, 2014 by Headpunch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ML_DoubleTap Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Since everyone's talking about it, AL did zero ranked as well and only a handful of regs. Only a few of us really enjoy PvP, I think I got my 10 wins objective a couple times and called it good. There was maybe 3 or 4 others that even went that far. Ours was a huge amount of crafting and encouraging everyone to do TC and Makeb weeklies. I agree with Sev, this is pretty casual content and while it can bring out people competitive personalities, cheesing points is pretty lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LethalWoIf Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 To all those in Veritas thank you for all the competition this last week it has certainly made the game more enjoyable! And for that my hats is off to you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthConn Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 (edited) At this point, does it even matter if people trade wins? Rating means nothing in this game when nobody queues. The only nice thing about ranked arenas now is that most of the time when its planned, you know you are going to get a competitive match. The fact that Veritas was atleast sticking it out in the game and not que dodging is good enough for me to not care about it. They apparently took their beating when they went up against other teams, or even won a few from what they said, so good for them. I don't think the real competitive pvp scene here who actually queues for ranked on this server is bothered by that. And on a side note, most of the top "pvp guilds" only field a team when they know they will win. And at the first sign of a loss, the team usually stops queueing. The number of times that Hex/Zen has heard "oh, we don't have a tank" or "we don't have enough" is just mind blowing at this point, especially when we see those same guilds running full composition premades in regs. Hex/Zen has practically resorted to in guild ranked only where if we have enough, we'll shuffle everyone up and que. It doesn't suck but its not as enjoyable. People in Zen/Hex joined to play with each other instead of against each other but I guess that's reality now. And if anyone who reads this actually wants to queue ranked, let us know. We aren't the type who opts out of ranked if we don't have ideal comp or players. We are just in it for close matches. EDITED: And just one more thing, I think the tragedy of this Veritas doing ranked thing isn't that they were trading wins for the conquest. The real tragedy is all the people who threw together ranked teams just to get easy wins who are completely absent in the ranked scene (until an easy win appears such as Veritas). It sounds like several guilds or even some random people threw together teams to solely beat Veritas pve-ers. The same people who are never queueing ranked at any other time. That's what's really pathetic. Edited August 27, 2014 by DarthConn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halstadt Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 (edited) EDITED: And just one more thing, I think the tragedy of this Veritas doing ranked thing isn't that they were trading wins for the conquest. The real tragedy is all the people who threw together ranked teams just to get easy wins who are completely absent in the ranked scene (until an easy win appears such as Veritas). It sounds like several guilds or even some random people threw together teams to solely beat Veritas pve-ers. The same people who are never queueing ranked at any other time. That's what's really pathetic. <Nemesis> queues ranked when we can and we're not raiding. But we have a policy of trolling PvEers who try to weasel PvP rewards through cheap, non-competitive methods. Did we get some free rewards at their expense? Yes. But, for me, the real reward is the perverse sense of enjoyment I get watching them queue in PvE gear, fail to get a single medal (even a 3k hit), and watch them mass /stuck. I'm not mad at them, I just think they're hilarious. #LaughingAtThemNotWithThem (Az, did I do it right?) Edited August 27, 2014 by Halstadt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollone Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 The number of times that Hex/Zen has heard "oh, we don't have a tank" or "we don't have enough" is just mind blowing at this point, especially when we see those same guilds running full composition premades in regs. You can't queue with 6+ people in arenas... get a grip, dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zohkar Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 (edited) EDITED: And just one more thing, I think the tragedy of this Veritas doing ranked thing isn't that they were trading wins for the conquest. The real tragedy is all the people who threw together ranked teams just to get easy wins who are completely absent in the ranked scene (until an easy win appears such as Veritas). It sounds like several guilds or even some random people threw together teams to solely beat Veritas pve-ers. The same people who are never queueing ranked at any other time. That's what's really pathetic. I know a few players in guild that where getting upset that they had gone close to 0-17 against professional teams and I was getting whispers from ranked teams asking if we would keep queing. Some where even trying to be helpful and show us better compostions for the competitve season, which I would appeciate if we can get more pvpers in our guild. I know I personally hate ranked because I don't want to be the reason that my team loses because I'm full corruption spec and I only get 5 fps in pve and pvp content. But I know if I am joining any ranked or unranked match I better put on my Brutilizer gear, and try to last atleast 30 seconds. Also if I am the last one still alive ya I don't have a problem /stucking to get to the next round faster. Edited August 27, 2014 by Zohkar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadecounty Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Hal I don't think he was implying Nemesis, we've played Hex/Zen a few times in ranked already, in fact I think we may be the only team they've played since they got back though I could be mistaken. I know I'm willing to tank for any 3 that want to play, our issue is usually finding someone willing to heal (I'll admit I'm too much of a wuss to heal ranked, stresses me out too much). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggleworth Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) Hal I don't think he was implying Nemesis, we've played Hex/Zen a few times in ranked already, in fact I think we may be the only team they've played since they got back though I could be mistaken. I know I'm willing to tank for any 3 that want to play, our issue is usually finding someone willing to heal (I'll admit I'm too much of a wuss to heal ranked, stresses me out too much). I doubt very much Rykeen meant <Nemesis> either man. I have a pretty good idea of some tags he maybe jabbing at though. I have had similar encounters recently, where you see a lot of a particular PVP guild tag at fleet and ask if that guild would be interested in group ranked. On at least two different occasions now I have been told that the guild had no tank online and therefore would have to decline. I then face a double premade of that very guild not 5 minutes later and they miraculously have 2 geared tanks in their midst. Funny how those silly tanks just appear out of nowhere. Oh and just for the record, Wrecks cant count either.......just sayin' Edited August 28, 2014 by Briggleworth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrezy Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Congrats to both Aisthesis and Veritas for making us unguilded folks jealous And I do not see an issue with Veritas doing ranked, are you saying that if a guild has multiple teams in ranked que that that is constituted as an exploit? Are multiple groups running flashpoints at the same time also an exploit? Even if two of the teams end up in the same arena that doesn't mean they trade wins. Now win trading is an exploit, and not a new one (remember the rancor fiasco?) however you earn the same points for wins and losses so there is zero difference if they do trade or not in regards to galactic conquest, especially if there is no rating involved. In short, if there was no actual win trading then there was no exploiting at all, if there was then it makes zero impact on anyone (including themselves). You can say they are "ruining ranked pvp" by queing up in PvE gear, but that is not prohibited and it is their choice. If anything you get your weekly faster. And it seems this was taken advantage of by other PvP guilds, you cannot take advantage of them queing and then complain about it. I really don't see what the issue is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djscootise Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 What reason is there to be jealous? Conquest rewards numbers and participation with less than awesome rewards. If there was something skill based in it, there'd be a reason for the winners to be proud and the losers to be envious. But when the "grand prize" is a glorified participation trophy, it leaves little to be jealous over, to me at least. I wear long sleeve shirts under short sleeve shirts under long sleeve shirts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckygunslinger Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) What reason is there to be jealous? Conquest rewards numbers and participation with less than awesome rewards. If there was something skill based in it, there'd be a reason for the winners to be proud and the losers to be envious. But when the "grand prize" is a glorified participation trophy, it leaves little to be jealous over, to me at least. I wear long sleeve shirts under short sleeve shirts under long sleeve shirts. Dem sick Legacy titles. Edited August 28, 2014 by Luckygunslinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrezy Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 What reason is there to be jealous? Conquest rewards numbers and participation with less than awesome rewards. If there was something skill based in it, there'd be a reason for the winners to be proud and the losers to be envious. But when the "grand prize" is a glorified participation trophy, it leaves little to be jealous over, to me at least. I wear long sleeve shirts under short sleeve shirts under long sleeve shirts. Just because something doesn't reward doing the most challenging content in the game doesn't mean that it is worthless, that content has it's own rewards. I play with a group of two of my personal friends, so we cannot really participate; but I am jealous of the opportunity to work toward a goal with 400 other people, where each of them have such zeal that they will stay up all night to make a push at the last minute. Maybe it's just my inexperience in conquests speaking, but I think it would be fun to be pushed to the extreme as an entire guild (I'm not saying conquests are extreme content, but the competition between guilds could be extreme). Raids push 8-16 man teams, PvP pushes individuals and groups of 4, what was there for entire guilds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djscootise Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Before I reply further, I'd like to say I'm not attempting to diminish your win or disrespect it or anything. You all did what was required to win and earned it without attempting to cheese the system of steal some easy points, to the best of my knowledge. Personally, while I like the legacy titles, they are less than appealing to me because the way conquest is designed. Conquest rewards spending a ton of time in game and having a ton of members, even if those members are little more than hat racks irl. If the values of the points were adjusted to give more points for tougher content, it'd be ok with me. As it stands, it's a joke to me. I go to work every day in the real world. I don't need my gaming feeling like a job as well so my small guild can compete with some herpderp guilds with 300 members that haven't learned basic mechanics yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardNinja Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Personally, while I like the legacy titles, they are less than appealing to me because the way conquest is designed. Conquest rewards spending a ton of time in game and having a ton of members, even if those members are little more than hat racks irl. If the values of the points were adjusted to give more points for tougher content, it'd be ok with me. As it stands, it's a joke to me. I go to work every day in the real world. I don't need my gaming feeling like a job as well so my small guild can compete with some herpderp guilds with 300 members that haven't learned basic mechanics yet. I don't think anyone has ever claimed that conquest points require the height of skill and coordination. Honestly, I look on the whole system as something fun meant to bring guild members together for a common purpose, even if that common purpose is somewhat simplistic. Large "guild projects" like this have existed in the game in the past (e.g. 10 stack Dreadtooth at level), but they've been somewhat ephemeral and generally very out of reach for most players. Conquests are by definition a lot more accessible, and in a sense I think that's a good thing. I don't need to feel like I'm doing something no one else can do. Not everything needs to be a nightmare mode boss. Conquests are fun, and that's really all that matters to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaiserTNT Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) I'd say putting together a large enough guild to dominate the leaderboards is an accomplishment. While it may not exactly be a mechanics or skill-based accomplishment, it is at least a victory of management and publicity. If a guild can get hundreds of people to log in and run this content together, it's taking at some level of organized effort to make that happen: either an organization that can appeal to a lot of casual players by offering a welcoming and fun environment, or, on the more cynical side of the coin, a hard-core recruitment drive with no other purpose than to win conquests. So congrats to the winners! As the leader of a medium-sized guild, I'm watching you all and collecting data to see if it may be mathematically possible to pull off a victory with a crafting blitz or some such tactic in a future week, once some of the hoopla dies down. Edited August 28, 2014 by KaiserTNT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halstadt Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Question: Does Aisthesis still control Voss? It seemed when I was on planets after the patch, they were all saying they are no longer controlled. Does conquest only last 4 days or did the patch cancel control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiralukaJedi Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Question: Does Aisthesis still control Voss? It seemed when I was on planets after the patch, they were all saying they are no longer controlled. Does conquest only last 4 days or did the patch cancel control? We still control it. Sometimes you have to take a step or two to get it to recognize it. That, or, its a bug. I'll check in a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiralukaJedi Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Just checked. Patch 2.9c broke conquests. All planets are no longer under anybody's control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halstadt Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Just checked. Patch 2.9c broke conquests. All planets are no longer under anybody's control. My condolences. But were you guys really even taking advantage of the bonus' for controlling it? I didn't see your flagship listed last I checked, nor is the Imperial Commander ever dead on Voss. If I told you someone was attacking the Republic Commander, would you have defended him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiralukaJedi Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) My condolences. But were you guys really even taking advantage of the bonus' for controlling it? I didn't see your flagship listed last I checked, nor is the Imperial Commander ever dead on Voss. If I told you someone was attacking the Republic Commander, would you have defended him? Well I personally was enjoying my mount. As for a group, we hope back and forth to kill Imperial Commander's. Though as far as I'm aware we weren't ever interfering with any groups working on commanders since little reason to sabotage other guilds trying to improve their ship. (Again, as far as I know) Edited August 29, 2014 by MiralukaJedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djscootise Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 since little reason to sabotage other guilds trying to improve their ship. (Again, as far as I know) Open world pvp / getting it for my own ship is reason enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halstadt Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Well I personally was enjoying my mount. As for a group, we hope back and forth to kill Imperial Commander's. Though as far as I'm aware we weren't ever interfering with any groups working on commanders since little reason to sabotage other guilds trying to improve their ship. (Again, as far as I know) It's not sabotage, it's war. If you don't see a problem with an Imperial Strike team murdering Jedi Battlemasters, perhaps the sacking of Coruscant part deux is in order... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ML_DoubleTap Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 It's not sabotage, it's war. If you don't see a problem with an Imperial Strike team murdering Jedi Battlemasters, perhaps the sacking of Coruscant part deux is in order... To encourage this I wish they would have put the commanders in a different location. As it is, the defenders spawn a few meters away and as long as they're not complete dolts they should be able to fend of an attack pretty simply. Since it's a war, BW could have put the commanders in a neutral area with a small entourage under the pretense that they were pushing forward to increase their territory. This way defenders have a slight advantage as the aggressors need to fight both the NPC and enemy characters, but they can overcome the disadvantage with strong play. To further incentivize the defending your commanders they could have added points for each kill of an enemy player engaged with a commander or within a certain perimeter of the commander location. That would feel a lot more like a war to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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