Regarding Dark Project mats.

[Joesixxpack]

Then why offer a crafting option at all? If their intent is to force the conquest route it would be far more efficient to simply make it the only option.

 

No, their has to be a secondary objective, and either we are missing key data or they are missing the mark on the intended effect. It's possible Bioware knows something we don't about material availability, or that they have another purpose (such as removing stockpiles), but with no comment from them seeming likely we have to operate on what we know.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if there were multiple reasons why. I'm just pointing out the big obvious one. If I'm logged I almost always have crafting or crew missions running on 8 + characters. Since most of my time is spent PVPing it's how I make the majority of my creds, and I wouldn't complain at all if they made the crafting option with this more reasonable at some point. For start up though I can see why they're taking the funnel approach.

[Sabatus]

Strongholds and guidlships are certainly not intended to be "maxed out" in a short span of time like some people do it with faction reputation, for example.

 

Also, it should be noted that large guilds can max the ships out in months, 2-4 depending on the size. It is only the small guilds that get basically locked out of this stuff. Where is the "effort" in that?

[Khevar]

Also, it should be noted that large guilds can max the ships out in months, 2-4 depending on the size. It is only the small guilds that get basically locked out of this stuff. Where is the "effort" in that?

I'm in a small guild and our plan is to kill commanders for the frameworks.

 

I don't consider we're "locked out" of anything.

[Brewski]

Because if there was only one option, then people would be complaining that there is only one option.

 

As I said, see it as a bonus, maybe just to make lvl 50 content a tiny little bit more interesting and rewarding. The conquest route is being released togehter with guildships and therefore directly linked to them. Of course, it's gonna be the main route.

 

It's not a bonus, though, as it's too far gone. Adding 1 encryption through crafting for every 100 encryptions gathered through conquest will not be worth the effort. You will be better off selling the DP for 1 to 2 million credits on the GTN.

 

Your point would be valid if it were 1 for every 5, or even 1 for every 10. At it's current rate it will be irrelevant, and would be better off removed entirely.

 

As has been stated many times in this thread, it's not the fact that it's slower, or slow or expensive. It's that the scale of difference is far too large to make it relevant at all. If you can't see that, then there's really no point in arguing it further.

 

As I said, personally, assuming nothing changes, I plan to exploit the cost as much as possible. I will craft DPs with my stockpiled resources and GTN them for 2 million credits a pop. I will actually benefit from the status quo, and even so, I think it needs to change.

[MillionsKNives]

Thank you. Your numbers are actually validating my point.

 

What's the worst thing that can happen to any content in a game? It becomes outdated! Making a fully upgraded guildship something that will last 2 to 3 years means that this sort of content won't be outdated within that span of time, which is good. I really think even next year guild will take care of expanding their guildships.

 

Futhermore, I think I have read about some other new content being on the horizon (Manaan / flashpoint / daily area?). I'm pretty sure with any kind of new content in the following updates after the one next week, they are going to add more options to get your stuff for your guildships together.

 

@Brewski

I get your point. You are suggesting that the crafting route will become obsolete because it requires more effort than the conquest route. Is that correct?

 

Maybe see the crafting route as an additon or a bonus to the conquest route. Classic ops are run now every now and then by pugs for some comms from the weekly. Now maybe some more people will join or organize classic ops to also get some extra mats for their guildships. It might just be some additional motivation to run these ops. Of course, people will focus on the easier way, but since it can't all be done in one single approach anyway, any little extra mats will be a nice bonus for the guilds. And in the long term view, a guild might just get their next room a few weeks earlier because of the mats they collected during random classic ops runs.

 

You're still not getting it. People won't do it. All of the "benefits" you outline won't happen because it won't entice anyone to put in the effort.

 

I'll be Capt. Obvious since some are still ignoring what is or not getting it.

 

BW wants all-in competition per their design, so of course the other means suck at start up. Deal with it.

 

I'll be captain even more obvious and say that there is no point in adding an option that is practically impossible to use.

[MillionsKNives]

Also, it should be noted that large guilds can max the ships out in months, 2-4 depending on the size.

 

Not through crafting they won't.

[errant_knight]

I like 6-manning HM EV. It's fun.

 

Try 3 manning it. That's even more fun

 

I have no problem farming the level 50 stuff. It's nice to relax sometimes and we'll have to get thousands of mats. You don't want to do that in hm 55. It would simply not be efficient enough, so the 50 stuff makes sense. Also, new 50s will have a much better shot at finding groups in the GF than they currently do, so it's a win/win.

 

I dislike regular pvp very much, but am looking forward to some real open world pvp. That can be a lot of fun and it's a lot less personally vicious than regular pvp. Even non pvpers might not hate it as much as they think. Give it a try before you rule it out.

 

As to crafting, I know that my guild will be doing it. We've been stocking up on mats and are ready to go. We plan on doing all the content.

Edited August 14, 2014 by errant_knight

[Joesixxpack]

I'll be captain even more obvious and say that there is no point in adding an option that is practically impossible to use.

 

Yeah there is. It's called checking the box. They've done it before, and will undoubtedly do it again.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Joesixxpack

[Yuppy]

To get a better perspective on what I'm talking about, this is how things are going to end up being done after 2.9 when it comes to farming mats for Dark Projects:

 

16man NiM EV: 8 ADCs, 2 RENs.

16man HM EV: 8 ADCs, 2 RENs.

16man SM EV: 8 BCAs, 2 SPPCs.

 

So, for doing 3 EV runs will net you 16 Alien Data Cubes, 4 Rakata Energy Nodules, 8 Biometric Crystal Alloys and 2 Self-Perpetuating Power Cells.

 

The rewards for doing all three modes of KP are the same as EV listed above. So, doing six runs of the relevant 50 OPs will net you 32 Alien Data Cubes, 8 Rakata Energy Nodes, 16 Biometric Crystal Alloys and 4 Self-Perpetuating Power Cells.

 

Now, at least 8 of your guildies will need to go do HM False Emperor for the Self-Perpetuating Power Cell that drops from the last boss. Because, otherwise, you're only going to get 4 SPPCs. Assuming you can get 8 people to slog through it and get the 2 SPPCs, you're now set.

 

A Dark Project requires 3 Self-Perpetuating Power Cells, 6 Alien Data Cubes, 6 Biometric Crystal Alloys, 3 Rakata Energy Nodes and a crapton of sub-55 green mats.

 

So, with six runs under your belt in the first week, assuming we have all the green mats for the Invasion Force itemm already, we can make...2 Dark Projects. Per week. Assuming you can get your Guildies to go do 3 runs of EV, and 3 runs of KP and 2 runs of HM False Emperor.

 

For two Dark Projects, per week. And you need 50 of those to make a single Framework. And you need 2-6 of those to open a single room. And there are 15 rooms to unlock.

 

Unless I did my math wrong, it'll take a guild...25 weeks to get one Framework by farming 50 Ops. And almost a year to get one room unlocked.

 

It is quite ridiculous! And honestly besides frustraiting it is disappointing!

 

With the mats I had saved from back when them mats mattered it only took me 36 character copies on the pts to finally have enough of the to make 10 whole dark projects!

 

I'm not nearily as excited for GSH as I once was! After the required grind needed to make these possible it's well meh!

[ivanhedgehog]

I did read the calculations and even though they ignore some factors, I still think the bigger the project is the better. I get that some people wanna grind everything as fast as possible and I do realize that this will be very, very difficult and time consuming.

 

Yet, I think as a long term project the guildships will be awesome and even the most casual player can contribute by running the content every now and then. And not just for the next few weeks, but, well, for a bit longer than that. This is the only thing that qualifies the stronghold update as an expansion, in my opinion. It will be a permanent addition to the game and not just a seasonal event.

 

in 38 years when the grind should be done this game wont even be a memory. there is grind and then there is stupidly long grind that most wont even start because it is so stupid.

[L-RANDLE]

So did anyone copy to the PTS and check the drop rates on the old content?

[well]

The crafting portions seems like overkill to me. What I have seen. Until the 19th we won't know for sure. Yes it is a MMO and grinds are part of it. Still you can push that to far. The idea I thought was to retain people and pull others into the game. I could be wrong.

[Khevar]

in 38 years when the grind should be done this game wont even be a memory. there is grind and then there is stupidly long grind that most wont even start because it is so stupid.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the amount of required materials is eventually lowered.

 

However, they may wait a bit before doing so, to encourage more guilds to participate in the commander fights.

 

Just think, an hour spent killing commanders may end up being equal to a year grinding mats ...

Edited August 14, 2014 by Khevar

[Infernixx]

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the amount of required materials is eventually lowered.

 

However, they may wait a bit before doing so, to encourage more guilds to participate in the commander fights.

 

Just think, an hour spent killing commanders may end up being equal to a year grinding mats ...

 

Unlikely considering the amount of guilds that will be grinding them, the 3 hour respawn timer, the lack of commanders per world and the number of worlds being contested each week.

[MillionsKNives]

Unlikely considering the amount of guilds that will be grinding them, the 3 hour respawn timer, the lack of commanders per world and the number of worlds being contested each week.

 

I'm fairly sure there's a 6 hour bubble on them when they spawn too, which only the winning guild can destroy by using the orbital strike (costs one dark project).

[Infernixx]

I'm fairly sure there's a 6 hour bubble on them when they spawn too, which only the winning guild can destroy by using the orbital strike (costs one dark project).

 

To be fair, once that bubble is popped, anyone can get the Commander. I assume it'll be a mess of confusion when the bubble pops. Defending guilds there to ruin any kill attempts, other guilds there waiting to snag up the Commander when the Conquering guild gets killed by defenders...

[LanceCorporalDan]

I'm fairly sure there's a 6 hour bubble on them when they spawn too, which only the winning guild can destroy by using the orbital strike (costs one dark project).

 

As far as I know yes.

[LanceCorporalDan]

To be fair, once that bubble is popped, anyone can get the Commander. I assume it'll be a mess of confusion when the bubble pops. Defending guilds there to ruin any kill attempts, other guilds there waiting to snag up the Commander when the Conquering guild gets killed by defenders...

 

Well the only thing is. The conquering guild can choose when to pop it. So once the area is clear, pop the shield, charge in for the kill. It would be interesting if there were a planetary announcement for when the shield pops, to prevent this from turning into farm fest by the conquering guild.

[ikinai]

To be fair, once that bubble is popped, anyone can get the Commander. I assume it'll be a mess of confusion when the bubble pops. Defending guilds there to ruin any kill attempts, other guilds there waiting to snag up the Commander when the Conquering guild gets killed by defenders...

 

Let the first annual Hunger Games, BEGIN!

[Infernixx]

Well the only thing is. The conquering guild can choose when to pop it. So once the area is clear, pop the shield, charge in for the kill. It would be interesting if there were a planetary announcement for when the shield pops, to prevent this from turning into farm fest by the conquering guild.

 

I'm going to assume that the pvpers will be there to gleefully ruin any kill attempts, even if it means sitting there and taunting the patiently waiting Conquering guild. I mean, what else do they have to do?

[Transcendent]

I'm going to assume that the pvpers will be there to gleefully ruin any kill attempts, even if it means sitting there and taunting the patiently waiting Conquering guild. I mean, what else do they have to do?

 

It's also a nice way of getting the PVP kills per planet if you're on a PVE server. Just means that any guilds using their smarts will have two ops groups ready, one for the kill, and one to defend against any others deciding to get involved and try to stop the kill.

[Infernixx]

It's also a nice way of getting the PVP kills per planet if you're on a PVE server. Just means that any guilds using their smarts will have two ops groups ready, one for the kill, and one to defend against any others deciding to get involved and try to stop the kill.

 

naturally. This is one of the reasons why the system is skewed toward larger guilds.

[LanceCorporalDan]

I'm going to assume that the pvpers will be there to gleefully ruin any kill attempts, even if it means sitting there and taunting the patiently waiting Conquering guild. I mean, what else do they have to do?

 

Idk wz's, dailies, ops, crafting, anything else that actually contributes to the conquest. Sitting around for 9hrs waiting for someone to come along doesn't seem like a really meaningful investment of playtime.

 

I'm not really worried about people camping... I am worried that commanders are right next to the spawn, and that only the conquering guild can pop the bubble on him. Seem unnecessary. Make it even for all guilds to drop it in my opinion.

Edited August 14, 2014 by LanceCorporalDan

[Khevar]

Unlikely considering the amount of guilds that will be grinding them, the 3 hour respawn timer, the lack of commanders per world and the number of worlds being contested each week.

You may be right, but cut me some slack -- I'm trying to be optimistic about this.

 

And perhaps I'm standing alone with this opinion, but if it turns out that every commander of the 8 planets (for each instance if there are multiple instances) is constantly being covered by various guilds during typical playtime, wouldn't it seem that this particular feature is a thriving success?

 

Call me crazy, but I'd rather have a lot people farming commanders in competition, instead of a ghost town because nobody cared.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Khevar

[Infernixx]

You may be right, but cut me some slack -- I'm trying to be optimistic about this.

 

And perhaps I'm standing alone with this opinion, but if it turns out that every commander of the 8 planets (for each instance if there are multiple instances) is constantly being covered by various guilds during typical playtime, wouldn't it seem that this particular feature is a thriving success?

 

Call me crazy, but I'd rather have a lot people farming commanders in competition, instead of a ghost town because nobody cared.

 

I'd rather have a PVE path linked to current content and not lvl 50 content and not in an OW PVP zone. Say what you like, but I joined a PVE server for a reason.