sanchito Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 What about a system where your ranking didn't go down? Say everyone starts at zero. You gain points based on your performance (medals) and it's multiplied by some amount if you win. That way people aren't penalized if they do a good job but still end up on a crap team. At the end of a season, people who are above a certain threshold start to get rewards. People below that threshold don't get anything ( or maybe they get one of the crap rewards from this season). I know this sounds a lot like regs, but at least this way people don't get penalized for trying. All this would show at the end of the season is how much someone played, not how good they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anubiran Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) Bad idea, encourages stat farming. A win should be a win and a loss should be a loss. actually a win is still a win and a loss wont be a win just for the best prepared and best players that helped most a minor loss. Thats all. Stat farming? You wont get more for overhealing. If you make the most damage - good. If you protect everyone even better. And in the end everyone knows that they need to win to gain points at all. So even if one guy decides to hit the tank all the time to get enough dmg for the most battle points its still so useless that the team will lose and he wont get anything - so he will play to win. Sure you could say, a jug will have prot and heal and dmg points so he makes more that a mara. But there could be a formula that says as a dd your dmg counts twice and the rest minor. Edited August 11, 2014 by Anubiran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnzoForMe Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I'd like to see the weight if a loss reduced. Going 4-1 to break even is ridiculous when on that sixth game I'm going to get a troll throwing games and have to start over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Bad idea, encourages stat farming. A win should be a win and a loss should be a loss. In solo ranked arenas? That's probably a good thing lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haystak Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I'd like to see the weight if a loss reduced. Going 4-1 to break even is ridiculous when on that sixth game I'm going to get a troll throwing games and have to start over again. This, I somewhat agree with the op, but i still beleive you should lose rank, when you lose a match. Albiet less than what you have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterSLC Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) Also a huge problem for class balance. Utility actions like pulls, stuns, mezzes, slows, knockbacks, and interrupts don't get rewarded in your system. These things can turn the tide of a match. What about tanks and healers that weren't able to do much prot/heals because the other team's damage sucked? Should they receive fewer points than their team's dps? If a healing class manages to leave combat, they will be incentivized to cast heals on themselves- rather than ooc regen- to inflate stats, even though this method is probably going to be more time consuming and energy costly. Specs like combat sentinel get fewer points because they're designed to quickly burst down people before they can be healed, while sustained damage specs like madness are raking in the numbers as they whittle down their enemies' HP with dots. Even if all the classes and specs were perfectly balanced, they would not achieve the average same stats in arenas. The only thing that should factor into rating gained/lost is whether you won or lost, your rating, your team's ratings, and the other team's ratings. The Elo rating system itself is not the problem here folks. Do not try to change it. Honestly, my suggestion in the previous page is a top priority for solo Qrs. Edited August 11, 2014 by JediMasterSLC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxeDragoneth Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I'd like to see the weight if a loss reduced. Going 4-1 to break even is ridiculous when on that sixth game I'm going to get a troll throwing games and have to start over again. Wholeheartedly agree with this and Kakarrot above me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlord_Maliken Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) The current PvP system is casual anyhow. I don't see why the original post's idea wouldn't be a logical progression. Most players are kind of dumb, and refuse to queue for ranked because they don't want the social pressures of losing a (personal) 4v4 for their team, AND the negative cherry on pie of actually losing rating (negating time) - even when ranked gets you that gear way faster. This would certainly make ranked pop a lot more. If they actually do this, I think they should reconsider it on a wider scale. i.e. don't make it: 1. queue for warzone 2. queue for ranked (4v4) Instead make it: 1. queue for warzone 2. queue for arena (4v4) 3. queue for both At the end of the season you could go by how many medals you got total. Someone who reaches Gold would have had to obtain at least 3200 medals for that season (Roughly 250 matches of getting 16 medals each match to give a perspective). The medals are added up from both warzone and arena matches. Just a thought folks. Its a slap on the *** for casuals but I don't think thats a bad thing. SwtoR's pvp is currently (sadly) the most impressive than any other MMO and its very relaxing for the most part. I don't think it needs a hardcore competitive arena scene like say world of warcraft, where the turbo-nerd global elite reach 3000 rating when most average joes get 1700. P.S. If this route is taken, add more medals for the really good performers. I'd call them elite medals, though they'd show up just as x1 medal on the scoreboards. Let the competitive & semi-good players get some of that spotlight that they oh so desperately need. i.e. x1 Alpha Combatant - Deal 925+ dps x1 Alpha Executioner - Get 15 killing blows while also having XXXX objective points. x1 Alpha Hybrid - Score 900+ dps while also achieving 100k protection or 250k healing. x1 Alpha Stalwart - Gain 250k protection and deal over 360k damage. A virtual competitor will beat his chest subconsciously after every warzone since swtor pvp is community based (server only), with the idea that people will eventually recognize that this guy is getting the medals that the average joes have a hard time getting. I just feel that if you are not going to do cross server pvp, you need to take advantage of the subconscious scriptings that get off to small community vibes in competitive / heightened events. Here's an example. Its almost embarrassing but this is what software programs are running in most humans, even if you are not egocentric. (a) i get those alpha medals every match. people notice that. Im making a name for myself. (b) YES! Im getting medals at a higher rate than most because I'm good and I get the alpha medals, plus people notice that too. © Im going to get really into this match because I want to perform well and get those medals, plus its server only PvP so I'll see these people again, and they'll see me again, so my performance is being watched especially if I do well. (d) [note] all these subconscious scripts run simultaneously in the mind and most people who are not attuned don't even recognize this process. Just a lil third eye insight my bros NP *waves hands through hair* Edited August 11, 2014 by Warlord_Maliken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anyakaschala Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 actually a win is still a win and a loss wont be a win just for the best prepared and best players that helped most a minor loss. Thats all. Stat farming? You wont get more for overhealing. If you make the most damage - good. If you protect everyone even better. And in the end everyone knows that they need to win to gain points at all. So even if one guy decides to hit the tank all the time to get enough dmg for the most battle points its still so useless that the team will lose and he wont get anything - so he will play to win. Sure you could say, a jug will have prot and heal and dmg points so he makes more that a mara. But there could be a formula that says as a dd your dmg counts twice and the rest minor. my only issue here is that 1st dps focused and stunlocked down. That person gets the rats end of the stick, and esp in terms of the sage class and the merc class unfortunately means you get the short straw 90% of the time. Thus it really kills them as a class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anyakaschala Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 All this would show at the end of the season is how much someone played, not how good they are. not necessarily, just depneds on the amount you give for a win and the amount you give for a loss. If you give 10 for a win and 1 or 2 for a loss, then the loser has to play 5-10x more games that people that win. I'd say 1 for a 2 match loss, and 2 for a 3 match loss. Possibly even for the winning team, 15 for a 2 match win, 10 for a 3 match win. Thus, still enabling the best to rise, but giving the people that just get pwned by the queue a chance to make up for it. What it does is takes out the sting of the trolls and the baddies that just join to mess with ranked players. In the ELO system where you play a lot of games, a troll can cause a 30 point loss, where a win only gains you 5. and if you get that 10x a night, you're toast, you're ranking is done, your season is done. In a system like OP has suggested, you can much more easily bounce back from a bad queue night. Because in the end, does solo ranked queue in the ELO system really show who is best or who got the benefit of the luck of the draw or queue synced with 15 other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anyakaschala Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 [**** condensed it for shortness sake. The only couple of issue I have with it are that it doesn't encourage people to do the little things that win matches. IE huttball isn't about killing blows or protection, or even heals, its about making good passing, having people that understand positioning and how to score points. also, in other wz's it flies in the face of the guy that's guarding the pylon or the turret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlord_Maliken Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) condensed it for shortness sake. The only couple of issue I have with it are that it doesn't encourage people to do the little things that win matches. IE huttball isn't about killing blows or protection, or even heals, its about making good passing, having people that understand positioning and how to score points. also, in other wz's it flies in the face of the guy that's guarding the pylon or the turret. It really doesn't at all though. They could simply polish up the medal system with my above approach to a new pvp system. For example if someone sits and guards a node the whole match, they would get Alpha Defender medals for having exceptionally high node-guarding skillz. Add a victory medal for the winning team. As far as huttball goes, increase the objective reward for carrying, passing, and scoring the ball. It will balance out. Its bioware/ea's job to get the #'s right. The blueprint is here. Edited August 11, 2014 by Warlord_Maliken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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