Guild Ship Frameworks and PVP Flagging

[Brewski]

Trolling doesn't mean what you think it does.

 

That said, I 'am' deriding people for seeing people as a source of entertainment. I absolutely think that sort of behavior should be scorned and mocked and derided.

 

Where you are stepping over the line is declaring all people who PvP to fall into this category. Not all people who PvP fall into your category, and frankly, you are being insulting to suggest this is true.

 

Although I do not PvP much in TOR, I do in other games. When I do, I enjoy winning and (here's the key) I enjoy losing so long as it is an even matching. I don't enjoy facerolls either way. I want competition. It's what makes PvP fun. Knowing you are competing against another real person who is enjoying it too.

 

And please stop trying to speak for all people on all PvE servers, as you can't. I play on a PvE server so I can choose when I PvP, whether it's war zones or open world. There is nothing in this update that changes that status, as I can choose not to go into the area when I don't want to PvP, and I'm good to go. No one is forcing you to walk into the zone.

 

As a primarily PvE player in SWTOR playing on a PvE server, I see absolutely nothing wrong with these additions, and in fact, I think they are a strong positive step for the game as a whole.

[LanceCorporalDan]

I will believe that when I see it. 16 man Ops on certain bosses are still horrible. There is no way they can upgrade that current engine to handle 30 to 40 people in a single area without massive lag.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5AzEmkLqcg

 

I admit there is lag, but not nearly as bad as I saw on Ilum would've been even less with graphics settings turned down.

[ikinai]

Not to get away from the fun and frivolity of bashing each other, but has anyone seen a fight against one of these commanders yet? Do we know where they are and how much open room there is around them? Are they easy to find, do they roam around? I guess before we make any assumptions we ought to figure out how the heck they work first, and that is something I don't know.

[Zoom_VI]

Not to get away from the fun and frivolity of bashing each other, but has anyone seen a fight against one of these commanders yet? Do we know where they are and how much open room there is around them? Are they easy to find, do they roam around? I guess before we make any assumptions we ought to figure out how the heck they work first, and that is something I don't know.

 

I spent four hours on the PTS trying to find one and never did.........

[TheWookiee]

If its server side it would affect my raids too, but it doesn't. Maybe your entire guild has bad computers?

 

Oh and framerate has nothing at all to do with the servers, which says something about how much you don't know.

 

I don't give two ***** how well your computer works and how you never experience lag. The majority of my guild does when large groups of people are in combat. That is what matters to me and my guild. That is my concern wit the additional OW aspect and this comes from past experience to this day.

[Zoom_VI]

I don't give two ***** how well your computer works and how you never experience lag. The majority of my guild does when large groups of people are in combat. That is what matters to me and my guild. That is my concern wit the additional OW aspect and this comes from past experience to this day.

 

And I'm telling you that BW can't fix your computer, that's out of their control.

[TheWookiee]

And I'm telling you that BW can't fix your computer, that's out of their control.

 

And because of that, everyone that plays this game with a normal, non state of the art computer should be penalized with bad lag. I wonder how much of the game population that will affect?

[ikinai]

I spent four hours on the PTS trying to find one and never did.........

 

Wow, that's a long time. Not sure if anyone is willing to spend that long just looking for one of these guys. Maybe it just isn't set up yet

[Joesixxpack]

I don't give two ***** how well your computer works and how you never experience lag. The majority of my guild does when large groups of people are in combat. That is what matters to me and my guild. That is my concern wit the additional OW aspect and this comes from past experience to this day.

 

A sidebar guild activity for 2.9 prep maybe... Grind RL creds for battle station upgrades.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Joesixxpack

[Zoom_VI]

And because of that, everyone that plays this game with a normal, non state of the art computer should be penalized with bad lag. I wonder how much of the game population that will affect?

 

dude my computer cost $300, your computer is probably more advanced than mine. An interesting thing about programs is that their performance can be affect by hundreds of different things, most of which are outside of BW control.

[BuriDogshin]

But, keep in mind that joke about the kid so ugly that their parents had to tie a steak around his neck to get the dog to play with him.

The Commanders are the steak. You're the kid that no one wants to play with.

 

Pork chop. Pretty sure it's pork chop, not a steak.

[ikinai]

Pork chop. Pretty sure it's pork chop, not a steak.

 

Either way I'm hungry now, stupid doctor telling me I have to lose a few pounds

 

Now I want a steak and a pork chop, and cheesecake, and fries and a chocolate malted...

[BuriDogshin]

If its server side it would affect my raids too, but it doesn't. Maybe your entire guild has bad computers?

Or maybe they are in the boonies of the Internet, or rather, the ones that complain about lag are (seriously, how often can you know your "whole guild" is seeing lag?).

 

Example: my wife's been playing over a 1mbps DSL line lately; it's painfully laggy and that has nothing to do with her computer (which does not see that kind of lag here at home) or the servers (because I am not seeing lag, and I am running with her on the same server, but over a 150 mbps cable connection).

 

A chain is no stronger than the weakest link. The chain between the servers and a client is long and complicated, and a lot can go on in it that can cause lag, some of which neither the player nor BioWare can do much about.

[Transcendent]

You find it amusing to blow up people who'd rather be killing an OP boss. That says a lot.

 

True, like fighting the Gree world bosses when half the group you're in is pvp flagged? Along comes the other faction and decides to get involved (but not by killing the world boss )

 

That's gets annoying pretty quickly. Hopefully though most guilds would be far more co-ordinated in situations like this. Shame you can't swap out PVE gear for PVP gear while fighting though, to at least make it a fair fight.

[errant_knight]

Can we agree that the lag of individuals is not something that the game designers are required to take into account? If it was, there's be no events in game and no 16 man ops.

 

Maybe folks should actually try this content before getting bent out of shape about it. For those who can't find the commanders, there's a thread with all their locations thus far. I think it's on the PTS section.

[ivanhedgehog]

You really don't get it. Your use of the term "carrot" to demean the concept of a reward is cute. It's not a personal reward that most open world pvpers are looking for. It's the sense that they did something to advance their faction's position in the war. Killing random people in a zone of no real importance doesn't provide that. There has to be a battle for some type of objective relevant to the larger conflict.

 

you arent getting it. Put the zones on the worlds, those that wish to use them wll. But DONT put important parts of other activities in there for the sole reason of providing targets for those that like owpvp. If it is at all popular you should have all the fights in there that you could want. But throwing the dog toy in the swimming pool to get fido drenched is not cool.

[ivanhedgehog]

^^this, its the act of competing is the source of fun, we don't run around killing people because killing people is fun.

 

thats why I see the geared 55 jumping the level 26 on tatooine just because he is flagged. for the competition....riiiiigggghhhhttt.

[ivanhedgehog]

That sounds like your computer dude, I can run 16mans at 35 FPS, and the other week did some OW with about 50 people at 25 FPS, and my computer is optimized for word processing. I suggest upgrading your CPU (not GPU)

 

thats why we are all having fun running the 16 man group finder ops..........oh wait a second..that didnt work

[LanceCorporalDan]

thats why I see the geared 55 jumping the level 26 on tatooine just because he is flagged. for the competition....riiiiigggghhhhttt.

 

You're suggesting one person is representative of an entire group of players.

 

More sweeping generalizations.

Edited August 8, 2014 by LanceCorporalDan

[Daekarus]

You're suggesting one person is representative of an entire group of players.

 

More sweeping generalizations.

 

It is a generalization that encapsulates the essence of many PvEr's experience with OWPvP: a higher level or PvP geared character attacks and prevents a lower level or PvE geared character from accomplishing whatever task Bioware saw fit to put in the danger zone. This is the reason why people rebel against the idea of OWPvP, because they are given no choice but to participate in a type of play they don't want if they're to achieve a significant percentage of the big side quests in the game. They don't want to PvP, they want to achieve the PvE objective and be left alone. To a PvE player, the best visit to the Outlaw's Den is one when it is empty. They have consented to PvP by entering only by the rules of the game, not in actual fact. What PvPers interpret as complaining about being killed while flagged isn't that at all - that would be ridiculous. The complaining is about having to be flagged in the first place. It's not a complaint against PvPers that are only following the rules of the game (unless they're griefing/corpse camping), it's a complaint against the designer's choice to force anyone who wants to complete that content to engage in a playstyle that requires different skill, different equipment, and gives the advantage to the aggressor.

 

Those who claim that it is the designers who dictate what the game is and is meant to be are right, and they rightly point out that such quest segments could properly be called PvP content. That's not in dispute. However, it is certainly the right of any player (and PvPers take full advantage of this right) to express displeasure with the current design of the game and propose changes based on what they enjoy. Those who express a wish that such quest segments were not PvP content have just as legitimate an opinion as any other player.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Daekarus

[Drockter]

True, like fighting the Gree world bosses when half the group you're in is pvp flagged? Along comes the other faction and decides to get involved (but not by killing the world boss )

 

That's gets annoying pretty quickly. Hopefully though most guilds would be far more co-ordinated in situations like this. Shame you can't swap out PVE gear for PVP gear while fighting though, to at least make it a fair fight.

 

I don't know... it can be an interesting dynamic... we are at war, and we are competing for the same resources as the other faction... sure, it can be annoying (mainly because of the enormity of the costs involved for the projects your running that particular mission for.

 

I'll bet thats part of the problem to be honest... we're all in a rush to get to the reward (be that credits, conquest points, or the mat drop)... everything is boiled down to time/reward to determine which content you want to run (or in the case of the mats... they may drop from only a few things reliably and/or at a better rate....

 

Look at the guildship cost debates... not getting into it here... but people have figured out what things to run that produce the largest amount of credits in the shortest period of time and/or least effort. Adding PvP into the mix changes that dynamic, and can, result in mission failure (i.e. no reward), or a longer mission (reduced "efficiency"... both of which go over like a fart in church.

[Zoom_VI]

Are you trying to imply that PvE'ers are being railroaded by missions and objectives being placed inside of PvP zones?

[Drockter]

Are you trying to imply that PvE'ers are being railroaded by missions and objectives being placed inside of PvP zones?

 

Not sure who that's directed at, if it was for me ... no... that's not what I meant.

[Daekarus]

Are you trying to imply that PvE'ers are being railroaded by missions and objectives being placed inside of PvP zones?

Yep, because a truly significant number of sidequests (and maybe even a class quest or two) require a trip to those places. Saying "Well just don't do it" isn't good enough because of how frequently it happens. Got a new quest? Well, go see this NPC and then off to the Outlaw's Den with you! It is a reflection of the devs' failure to understand the reaction it provokes from a significant percentage of players. Even if you're like me and really couldn't care less if you get killed, it's still an inconvenience that is completely unnecessary from a design perspective. It's actually worse on a PvE server, because those looking for an easy kill know exactly where to look, as opposed to a PvP server where everyone is prepared and PvP can happen anywhere. There is no need to camp those zones on a PvP server.

 

Mind you, almost none of this affects me because my main has already completed almost everything, and like hell am I going to bother doing it all again on an alt.

[Zoom_VI]

Yep, because a truly significant number of sidequests (and maybe even a class quest or two) require a trip to those places. Saying "Well just don't do it" isn't good enough because of how frequently it happens. Got a new quest? Well, go see this NPC and then off to the Outlaw's Den with you! It is a reflection of the devs' failure to understand the reaction it provokes from a significant percentage of players. Even if you're like me and really couldn't care less if you get killed, it's still an inconvenience that is completely unnecessary from a design perspective. It's actually worse on a PvE server, because those looking for an easy kill know exactly where to look, as opposed to a PvP server where everyone is prepared and PvP can happen anywhere. There is no need to camp those zones on a PvP server.

 

Mind you, almost none of this affects me because my main has already completed almost everything, and like hell am I going to bother doing it all again on an alt.

 

but that logic is flawed since under that logic PvE'ers are being railroaded into warzones to complete the warzone daily. I mean its a mission right?

Additionally under that logic I could argue that I'm getting railroaded into PvE all the time since most quests that give significant rewards come from raids or other PvE quests.