Guild Ship Frameworks and PVP Flagging

[Ashwinn]

If by "ignorance" you mean "based on personal experience," then yes. The only theoretical in that quote is the PVP server, which I theorized as quite positive. All the others are, and have been since Vanilla WoW, exactly as I portrayed them. Sorry if you don't like it.

 

Several people are calling you out about you thinking that tank's have no use for pvp.. You think tank's have no place in pvp yet you have little pvp experience to even comment on this matter. Go do a wz then find someone that's guarded and see how you do.

[Daekarus]

Several people are calling you out about you thinking that tank's have no use for pvp.. You think tank's have no place in pvp yet you have little pvp experience to even comment on this matter. Go do a wz then find someone that's guarded and see how you do.

 

I have done WZs and guarded people. You know what happens? Either the guard does no good and the person dies immediately anyway or everyone just focused me down instead and we lost soundly. Meanwhile my DPS was too low to burn through anyone else before I died. I was very disappointed, I expected to be able to make a difference as a tank because I had been told guard was effective. With TTks so short, it really doesn't matter at all... he with the fastest reflexes wins. If I wanted to play a twitch PvP game this would be my last choice.

 

That also doesn't invalidate my portrayal of various PvE and PvP scenarios.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Daekarus

[hallucigenocide]

I have done WZs and guarded people. You know what happens? Either the guard does no good and the person dies immediately anyway or everyone just focused me down instead and we lost soundly. Meanwhile my DPS was too low to burn through anyone else before I died. I was very disappointed, I expected to be able to make a difference as a tank because I had been told guard was effective. With TTks so short, it really doesn't matter at all... he with the fastest reflexes wins. If I wanted to play a twitch PvP game this would be my last choice.

 

That also doesn't invalidate my portrayal of various PvE and PvP scenarios.

 

PvP is about team work you cant just jump in there yellling "have no fear Daekarus is here" and and expect the opposition to fall down and beg for mercy.. that would'nt really work on a raid boss either would it? if you charge in there and start whacking on the boss you'll die instantly aswell if there's no healer around etc.

[Daekarus]

PvP is about team work you cant just jump in there yellling "have no fear Daekarus is here" and and expect the opposition to fall down and beg for mercy.. that would'nt really work on a raid boss either would it? if you charge in there and start whacking on the boss you'll die instantly aswell if there's no healer around etc.

 

This isn't my first rodeo, I know the basics. Maybe my teammates sucked, maybe my gear didn't mesh well with the bolster system, whatever. I tried to move with the blob, stay near my guard target, taunt when I could to cut enemy DPS, etc. Didn't suck less after a few games so I never went back... no fun.

 

There weren't any other tanks in the WZs, I'll tell you that.

[Lotharofxev]

Either the guard does no good and the person dies immediately anyway or everyone just focused me down instead and we lost soundly

 

Guard does a world of good. Specifically 30% of a world.

 

PvP =/= PvE / Raiding. You sound like a level 15 doing PvP for the first time. And no, your VERY limited experience does not translate to you "knowing what you are doing".

[Ashwinn]

I have done WZs and guarded people. You know what happens? Either the guard does no good and the person dies immediately anyway or everyone just focused me down instead and we lost soundly. Meanwhile my DPS was too low to burn through anyone else before I died. I was very disappointed, I expected to be able to make a difference as a tank because I had been told guard was effective. With TTks so short, it really doesn't matter at all... he with the fastest reflexes wins. If I wanted to play a twitch PvP game this would be my last choice.

 

That also doesn't invalidate my portrayal of various PvE and PvP scenarios.

 

Brah, 100 bucks says you prolly were tunneling someone and you went out of range of whoever you were guarding you prolly didn't know that.. You prolly played a dozen wzs and that's about it you don't really know the role of a tank is in pvp and it shows. You're job is to mitigate dmg on whoever is being focused using guard/taunts if they swtich to someone else you guard swap to that person maybe look at protection at the end of a wz guards/taunts makes a difference.

[Lotharofxev]

You prolly played a dozen wzs and that's about it you don't really know the role of a tank is in pvp and it shows. You're job is to mitigate dmg on whoever is being focused using guard/taunts if they swtich to someone else you guard swap to that person maybe look at protection at the end of a wz guards/taunts makes a difference.

 

The fact that you had to spell that out? Yeah. Spot on.

[Daekarus]

Guard does a world of good. Specifically 30% of a world.

 

PvP =/= PvE / Raiding. You sound like a level 15 doing PvP for the first time. And no, your VERY limited experience does not translate to you "knowing what you are doing".

 

I'm well aware that PvP is not the same as PvE. It's an entirely different skill set, which is why tossing it into a server where people specifically opted out of open world PvP is such a crap idea.

 

Of course it's limited, my WZ experience was boring and unproductive. Why would I want to pursue that? So I could start yet another progression path I don't have time to complete just so I can spend more time watching the respawn timer? I would rather die once and start a new WZ, at least death would mean something then. I have no interest in being someone's stat padding for a while until I earn enough gear to make it less frustrating to do something I don't care about when I can just do PvE and have a good time from the word go. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

If tanks are so great, why do I never hear top-ranked PvP tanks discussed on the podcasts? Why does everyone's insistence that they're so great center on an ability that doesn't even really require me to perform any actions? You can say that tanks are good, but the opportunity cost is another DPS... and the math doesn't add up.

[Daekarus]

Brah, 100 bucks says you prolly were tunneling someone and you went out of range of whoever you were guarding you prolly didn't know that.. You prolly played a dozen wzs and that's about it you don't really know the role of a tank is in pvp and it shows. You're job is to mitigate dmg on whoever is being focused using guard/taunts if they swtich to someone else you guard swap to that person maybe look at protection at the end of a wz guards/taunts makes a difference.

 

Ummmm... those are brain dead obvious. Of course my role is to mitigate damage, I'm a tank! What do you think I have all of these utility and taunt abilities for? To make pretty lights?

 

Seriously, don't take me for an idiot, I know the mechanics. They might not do much good in the swirling chaos that is a PvP match, but I know my job.

[Ashwinn]

I don't even know how to access the leaderboards. I do listen to 4 swtor podcasts, however, and NEVER, in all of the time I've listened to them, have they ever discussed tanks in the context of PvP. Ever. The specs under examination are always DPS or heals, the PvPers they have on to interview always play DPS or heals, then possible class changes that might impact PvP are always DPS or heals, and tanks aren't ever even mentioned until the talk moves away from PvP.

 

That's mighty strong reinforcement for my own observations, regardless of your opinion.

 

lol, he listens to a casual podcast how cute..

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCV4gBetbY1qJzRAt6YN-xw

real podcast for you about pvp.

[Daekarus]

lol, he listens to a casual podcast how cute..

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCV4gBetbY1qJzRAt6YN-xw

real podcast for you about pvp.

 

Now you're reaching. You have no idea which of the Swtor podcasts I listen to, don't pretend otherwise.

 

I suggest you read this:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=731614

 

You might find it interesting.... they're discussing the poor survivability and low contribution of a tank in PvP.

 

Edit: Very classy link there... don't think I would watch a program with that title if it's any indication of the quality of the commentary. You might be interested to know that the only specs mentioned on their "activity" page were DPS.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Daekarus

[Lotharofxev]

@ Daekarus - I'm gonna tell you the same thing I tell my Boxer when she goes to town in the garden: "Stop digging".

[Pjats]

its to allow the devs to claim there is a nonpvp way.. all the time knowing it will never be crafted because of the stupidly high mat requirements.

What about the third way to get those items? Be one of the top 10 guilds on a planet using the conquest system. The guild rewards contain these encryptions.

[Daekarus]

@ Daekarus - I'm gonna tell you the same thing I tell my Boxer when she goes to town in the garden: "Stop digging".

 

Oh, I don't expect to get anywhere. Certainly not with some people who can't type a coherent sentence like Whatshisname that has been trying to distort everything I say. If you all want to pretend that tanks are perfectly viable in the solo queue and that the opportunity cost of another dps or healer is totally worth it, it's no skin off my back.

 

It's really no skin off my back at all - they'll do what they're going to do, I won't be able to get an Ops group together during off hours, and nothing will change except I'll eventually have a ship to play in and donate decorations toward. I just hope that this isn't a common theme on future content - they'll find fewer people actually consuming it if it is, and fewer subs as a result.

[Ashwinn]

Oh, I don't expect to get anywhere. Certainly not with some people who can't type a coherent sentence like Whatshisname that has been trying to distort everything I say. If you all want to pretend that tanks are perfectly viable in the solo queue and that the opportunity cost of another dps or healer is totally worth it, it's no skin off my back.

 

It's really no skin off my back at all - they'll do what they're going to do, I won't be able to get an Ops group together during off hours, and nothing will change except I'll eventually have a ship to play in and donate decorations toward. I just hope that this isn't a common theme on future content - they'll find fewer people actually consuming it if it is, and fewer subs as a result.

 

Guy's he's a s-1 professional he knows his **** and also delusional. It's people like this you want to avoid in real life at all cost.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Ashwinn

[Pagy]

I have done WZs and guarded people. You know what happens? Either the guard does no good and the person dies immediately anyway or everyone just focused me down instead and we lost soundly. Meanwhile my DPS was too low to burn through anyone else before I died. I was very disappointed, I expected to be able to make a difference as a tank because I had been told guard was effective. With TTks so short, it really doesn't matter at all... he with the fastest reflexes wins. If I wanted to play a twitch PvP game this would be my last choice.

 

That also doesn't invalidate my portrayal of various PvE and PvP scenarios.

we get it, you dont like pvp.

 

but please, making generalization out of little experience and without any pvp skill does, in fact, satisfy the very definition of ignorance.

 

just because YOU can't play a tank in pvp, it doesn't mean OTHER players can't.

 

anyway, this is all exhausting. when a player on a pve server enters wzs or open pvp areas, they are flagged. this is how swtor works. this is how it always worked. your complaints aren't going to change anything.

[JeffrenBrek]

Honestly, you PvErs need to stop crying. PvPers don't enjoy money grinds via PvE either, but have to do them in order to get the money for guild ships. Think we enjoy doing Operations, Flashpoints or even worse dailies? No, I can assure you we don't.

 

Seems only fair you have to step out of your comfort zone too.

[BuriDogshin]

Ssssh, the grownups are talking. Go make noise somewhere else.

He/she said it all with the first "prolly." I've never heard anyone older than 7 use that.

[Zoom_VI]

This 100%. Just because an option exists, that doesn't mean it's a reasonable alternative.

 

Lol at Guard. Now, tell me why all PvP discussions are about DPS specs and tanking is never mentioned... go ahead, I'll wait.

 

Tell me why every single team in group ranked runs a tank.

 

I'll wait.

[Daekarus]

Tell me why every single team in group ranked runs a tank.

 

I'll wait.

 

Because when your PVP skill and equipment are greater than mine you can make a difference on a coordinated team?

 

We've moved on from that tangent and we're back to arguing about PvP flagging areas on PvE servers and whether or not it's a good idea to force players into gameplay styles they don't want to participate in. Some say it is, some say it isn't, some say that they're forced to play PvE in a primarily PvE game so I should be forced to play PvP in a primarily PvE game, some say that's not so. As has been noted, none of this will change anything, so the real purpose of the thread, to add a whine tally on the "I don't like open world PvP" list the devs keep, has been accomplished. Maybe if I'm lucky there will be more of them when the content releases, or people won't use the content until the campers get bored after a few months.

[JediMasterSLC]

The tears are delicious.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

................................ Maybe if I'm lucky there will be more of them when the content releases, or people won't use the content until the campers get bored after a few months...................

 

I will never get bored of stalking and killing you. We are at war, it is what opposing factions do.

 

You want to play the content, you play by the rules, and the rules say, you are about to die.

 

For an extra fun element I will devise a plan just for you where you think you are to take down a boss and boom.....oops, you are a corpse.

 

The galactic war in all it's glory, as it always should have been!

 

Am tempted to transfer some toons to a PVE server just for kicks.

Edited August 7, 2014 by ThorgrimLutgen

[Shoraan]

In my opinion, PVP is inherently toxic. [...]

Consider now that as far as I can see, there's no real incentive to the Open World PVP thing with the Commanders for defenders except the satisfaction of denying other players a chance to further an aspect of PVE. Just spite and contempt and the joy of making other players angry and frustrated.

 

This is unhealthy.

[...]

 

I will never get bored of stalking and killing you. We are at war, it is what opposing factions do.

 

You want to play the content, you play by the rules, and the rules say, you are about to die.

 

For an extra fun element I will devise a plan just for you where you think you are to take down a boss and boom.....oops, you are a corpse.

 

The galactic war in all it's glory, as it always should have been!

 

Am tempted to transfer some toons to a PVE server just for kicks.

 

No further questions, Your Honour.

[Lotharofxev]

Quoting infernix automatically nullifies any point you're trying to make. It'd be like using Wikipedia as a "source" for any research above 1st grade.

[BuriDogshin]

Quoting infernix automatically nullifies any point you're trying to make. It'd be like using Wikipedia as a "source" for any research above 1st grade.

Wikipedia has been used a source in courts. And you should wiki "argumentum ad hominem" before continuing.