Kaggath Battlegrounds Heats - Republic Reborn vs Wroshyr Alliance

[LadyKulvax]

That however is game mechanics.

[Aurbere]

Well, If you played Kotor you could make Revan the best duelist EVER.

But yeah, another time.

 

Yes you could, but that's technically non-canon (the game mechanics, not the game itself).

 

Anyway, to put us on to a new direction, I already did my comparison of the fighters, but I have one question for the Arbiter.

 

Are we allowing the other models of the listed starfighters? Like the upgraded B-Wings and E-Wings?

[Nalathemaster]

That however is game mechanics.

 

True. But with that logic we could assume Revan Destroyed the Republic after KOTOR

[StarSquirrel]

Most likely, but Saba and Corran aren't exactly known for their mastery of the Force.

 

But that's a discussion for another time.

 

Well actually Corran is. He could absorb sabers and blaster bolts as well as mind trick very powerful force users (Luke for instance). His telekinesis though was non-existent.

[LadyKulvax]

Yeah but he was never a head of state as the Reborn Revan so I think that violates the rules.

 

The rules state if anyone was Head of State in their lives then they must be Head of State, it does not state the iteration itself has to be the HoS.

Edited July 29, 2014 by LadyKulvax

[Aurbere]

Well actually Corran is. He could absorb sabers and blaster bolts as well as mind trick very powerful force users (Luke for instance). His telekinesis though was non-existent.

 

He mind tricked Luke? That's pretty gosh darn impressive.

[StarSquirrel]

He mind tricked Luke? That's pretty gosh darn impressive.

 

Yep, in the Jedi Academy books he mind tricks the entire school into thinking he telekinetically moved a boulder. Luke managed to see through it eventually and thus was able to show everyone it was a trick, but for a minute he had Luke fooled and that was at the lowest iteration of his powers back when he was just starting his training.

Edited July 29, 2014 by StarSquirrel

[Silenceo]

Well actually Corran is. He could absorb sabers and blaster bolts as well as mind trick very powerful force users (Luke for instance). His telekinesis though was non-existent.

 

Not quite true. On demand, it was none existent. But if he absorbed a lot of energy recently, he could unleash it telekentically very, VERY violently. Corran Horn is awesome.

[tunewalker]

He mind tricked Luke? That's pretty gosh darn impressive.

 

Ya

 

Actually I want to note ALL of my leaders are actually pretty good in space as well.

 

Chewie is good he was a member of the http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Claatuvac_Guild Which had secret Hyperspace routes that he used to help with smuggling....

 

Saba as one of the leading members of the "Wild knights" and I believe at one point took over the group and lead the starfighter group

 

Corran Horn is similar a Former Rouge member and responsible for training many of the knights in space combat

 

and Dodonna was legendary both in space and on the ground for tactics....

[Aurbere]

Yep, in the Jedi Academy books he mind tricks the entire school into thinking he telekinetically moved a boulder. Luke managed to see through it eventually and thus was able to show everyone it was a trick, but for a minute he had Luke fooled and that was at the lowest iteration of his powers back when he was just starting his training.

 

Impressive, most impressive.

[StarSquirrel]

Not quite true. On demand, it was none existent. But if he absorbed a lot of energy recently, he could unleash it telekentically very, VERY violently. Corran Horn is awesome.

 

Yeah forgot that one. Once he actually asked someone to stab him with a saber then he vaporized some Vong iirc. Kinda ****** right there.

[tunewalker]

Not quite true. On demand, it was none existent. But if he absorbed a lot of energy recently, he could unleash it telekentically very, VERY violently. Corran Horn is awesome.

 

This is true...

[tunewalker]

Something came up about my ships.....?

 

 

Edit: oh

 

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Anaxes_War_College_System

 

 

 

As you will see in this system there is no "light cruiser" its either a "Cruiser" or a "heavy Cruiser" While they can move it up based on firepower and the like....

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hapan_Battle_Dragon

 

 

As you can see here it DID NOT with the Dragon, it was still classified as a "cruiser" same as the MC40... there should be no reason to "nerf" as according to the Anaxes War College System the Battle Dragon IS NOT a Heavy cruiser, but just a mere cruiser same as the MC 40.

Edited July 29, 2014 by tunewalker

[Aurbere]

Ya

 

Actually I want to note ALL of my leaders are actually pretty good in space as well.

 

Chewie is good he was a member of the http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Claatuvac_Guild Which had secret Hyperspace routes that he used to help with smuggling....

 

Saba as one of the leading members of the "Wild knights" and I believe at one point took over the group and lead the starfighter group

 

Corran Horn is similar a Former Rouge member and responsible for training many of the knights in space combat

 

and Dodonna was legendary both in space and on the ground for tactics....

 

Dat Jan Dodonna.

[Aurbere]

Something came up about my ships.....?

 

Yes, you were nerfed.

[StarSquirrel]

Something came up about my ships.....?

 

PM Beni, the Hapan Battle Dragon was reclassed as a Heavy Cruiser and got reduced down to 7 while the Majestics went up to 10. That screws with your fighter numbers and the overall effectiveness of the ship.

[tunewalker]

Check the edit... The Battle dragon was never classified as a Heavy cruiser.... It was classified as a cruiser... if you need further proof the Nova-class (the next biggest Hapan ship) is classified as a Frigate despite its size.....

 

 

Yes occassionally the Anexes war college people would up the classification when the size and firepower was big enough... THIS is NOT one of those times....

 

 

Check the edit for proof:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7568955&postcount=138

 

 

 

Edit: For those that have been helping me while i have been away.... Thank you.

Edited July 29, 2014 by tunewalker

[tunewalker]

Also as far as ships go I want to cover some STRENGTHS of the Hapan Dragons.....

 

First Many were updated with Long Range Turbo Lasers and most importantly the extremely strong Ion cannons combined with Proton Torp combo employed by the dragons. The dragon's only showed difficulty with targeting swarms 4 computers were more then enough to target a single ship.

 

3 Dragons focusing fire on a Imp Star destroyer were able to destroy it very quickly with out recieving nearly any Damage thanks to its Ion cannon, Proton Combo...

 

With just 6, It could likely topple the Alliance

 

Also The alliance is essentially a Mini SSD and Again I would like to note about the Obi-wan

 

"It mounted defenses strong enough to resist even some of the smaller Super Star Destroyers or analog warships.[2]"

 

Allowing it to fight head to head with the Alliance, and while its firepower alone may not be enough IT is tough enough to weather the storm while Long Range Turbo's of the Hapan ships Deal damage from outside the Alliances Range...

 

I will get into more detailed matter on both ships and tactics when the whole improper nerf thing is resolved....

Edited July 29, 2014 by tunewalker

[LadyKulvax]

Having seen the evidence, I object to nerfing the battle dragons, as arbiter I think that settles it.

 

Now please return to debating which faction has the naval tactical advantage, remember that all viable admirals should be considered and debated over, not just who is most likely to take command but how effective each of them could be if given said responsibility.

[StarSquirrel]

Well I think Surik would likely be the best at deploying the capital ships on the RR side. She is accustomed to using these exact ships (well the Interdictors and Hammerheads) and is Revan's most trusted officer.

 

However, this will certainly put Wedge in an annoying spot. He'd command the fighter forces and serve as second in command to Surik. While he usually doesn't take issue being second, he does take issue with needlessly aggressive strategies (something Revan/Surik are known for against the Mandos) and he will also chafe under Surik when she tries to direct him on how to deploy his forces.

 

This will be a major factor in the likelihood of his defection and at the very least will hamper his effectiveness.

 

As for the WA, I predict Dodonna would direct the naval battle. He is used to facing an enemy with big guns (the Alliance) and fighting a hit-and-run or objective-based battle. He knows how to use his forces to achieve an objective cost-efficiently which is very unlike the tactics Revan and Surik have encountered. He is easily the superior tactician here. Even Wedge is not as good a fleet commander as Dodonna.

 

That's just one argument. I give the tactical edge to Dodonna and the WA. With the fleets so close in terms of firepower and numbers, Dodonna's superiority in the tactics department and the friction on the RR side gives the WA an advantage in this fight.

Edited July 29, 2014 by StarSquirrel

[tunewalker]

Further reasons why Wedge might defect I hadnt thought of him defecting originally but now that I think about it, its much more likely for him to then half my faction.

 

First Dodanna Is Second in command, Wedge is an Ally. By this extent Wedge KNOWS Dodonna is on the other side even if Dodonna doesnt know Wedge is on the other side.

 

Further More "New Repulic officers" who many of which were friends of Wedge are my Naval Fleet. He also has high respect for NJO knights and the Antarian Rangers were essentially an exstention of those Knights in addition to this.

 

He followed Mothma and Dodonna over his fellow Corellian, Garm bel... The one time Wedge and Horn found themselves on "opposite ends" they were at a negotiation table, and as soon as it turned out war was going to break out both joined forces to stop the war. They did not fight each other. Wedge was extremely close freinds with Luke and Han and by extension very close friends with Chewie

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRvAAYjmqkE 2:34

 

in that video Wedge shakes hands with 2 people.... Luke, and Chewie...

 

 

Edit: LK I promise I will get to the Tactical set up shortly, havent been home long, sorry I am hitting old points .

Edited July 29, 2014 by tunewalker

[tunewalker]

My initial findings in terms of firepower and fighter complements points to an advantage to the WA.

 

fighter numbers

• RR- 1992
  
• WA- 1908

 

Now despite the slight number disadvantage, I give this one to the WA slightly due to the quality and makeup of their ships.

 

The E-wing was faster and more maneuverable than the XJ, and since they're contemporaries and the E-wing has the advantage of being newer and better I give an edge to the E-wing.

 

The B-wing is old and was designed to fill the heavy firepower gap left in the Rebellion fighter force caused by the use of the heavily outdated Y-wing. The K-wing was the successor to the B-wing, and it was even more heavily armed and armored iirc. It is really a case of the replacement being better than the original.

 

The Thunderclap I think might be the best RR choice here. It could probably pose a good challenge for the WA's gunboat, but it suffers from a lack of major firepower that can allow it to take down ships. Game mechanics aside, it seems to be designed to do better against smaller corvettes and heavy fighters. The WA's gunboat is also relatively unknown to me, but it seems like it'd do very well against the heavier and slower fighters of the RR. It seems like a nice picket ship, and will fulfill its role well while taking any punishment that gets thrown at it. The Thunderclap is a better ship, but the WA's choice fits the role the WA needs it to better.

 

Now, for the ships.

 

The RR sacrificed too much firepower and got too little of a reward in fighter numbers for its trouble imo. The WA's Hapan Battle Dragons and Majestic-class ships will wreck the Interdictors and the Hammerheads won't stand a chance in a direct fight. Each of the WA's capital ships outguns its analog on the other side and outnumbers them (except the Battle Dragon which still easily outguns its rival) as well. I give a bigger edge to the WA here for having ships with bigger guns.

 

Now the RR has an ace card . The Alliance is a major threat to every WA ship. It is essentially a compact SSD, and has the firepower and shields of the Mon Cal to boot. Like the last match, if the big ship stays with the fleet, it'll be very hard for the WA to engage. However, the Obi-wan is a neat ship. If the WA can fight in smaller engagements in space, they will win anytime the Obi-wan is present. Bringing a Impstar's firepower to bear while flying around in a ship almost half its size is a massive boost to any fight.

 

Also, the shields of WA ships are far superior imo to those of the RR's excluding the Alliance. Mon Cal shields FTW.

 

This all ignores tactics and is more an analysis of the ship's capabilities.

 

Also I wanted to note the Fighter numbers are off for my faction

 

Numbers are actually

 

1920

 

The "12 shuttles" on the Obi-wan I was under the impression could be traded for X4 Gunships as they can act as transports. Bassically turning "transports" into something that can dual role as transport and weapon...

 

Also last I checked Rule 41 still prevents all kinds of other fighters being built for either faction as that would take time thus no one starts with fighters from a supplier.... even if the supplier can field them after the fact. Which I would like to note that SoroSuub also built many different fighter types and many of the ships in GSF portion of SWTOR were cannonically built by SoroSuub as well as some of the weapons employed by them including the very powerful Burst Laser Cannon, though I doubt either side will come to that.

Edited July 29, 2014 by tunewalker

[Selenial]

Also I wanted to note the Fighter numbers are off for my faction

 

Numbers are actually

 

1920

 

The "12 shuttles" on the Obi-wan I was under the impression could be traded for X4 Gunships as they can act as transports. Bassically turning "transports" into something that can dual role as transport and weapon...

 

Also last I checked Rule 41 still prevents all kinds of other fighters being built for either faction as that would take time thus no one starts with fighters from a supplier.... even if the supplier can field them after the fact.

 

Beni made the decision a while ago in PM's, and unless you want to make suppliers for a lot of people instantly useless and dead weight, this rule should stay.

[Selenial]

Well I think Surik would likely be the best at deploying the capital ships on the RR side. She is accustomed to using these exact ships (well the Interdictors and Hammerheads) and is Revan's most trusted officer.

 

However, this will certainly put Wedge in an annoying spot. He'd command the fighter forces and serve as second in command to Surik. While he usually doesn't take issue being second, he does take issue with needlessly aggressive strategies (something Revan/Surik are known for against the Mandos) and he will also chafe under Surik when she tries to direct him on how to deploy his forces.

 

This will be a major factor in the likelihood of his defection and at the very least will hamper his effectiveness.

 

Surik wasn't known for aggressive tactics at all. If she was to command the fleet, I doubt there'd be any issue with wedge, and again, their force bond would allow them to work together fare more efficiently than any other fleet admiral.

 

And I'm sure he'd be fine splitting the duties, as this is a large fleet to coordinate, they'd need to split up in my opinion.

 

We should probably discuss Surik's battle meditation too...

[tunewalker]

Beni made the decision a while ago in PM's, and unless you want to make suppliers for a lot of people instantly useless and dead weight, this rule should stay.

 

They arent dead weight they can build stuff through out the Kaggath and resupply, Last I checked they didnt come witha Garrison of troops.... I think "no garrison" falls under another Rule number wise that I do not recall.