Selenial Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Should'a let it go. That's what I did for my Scorps. Alas, he then figured out how epic they were. Why? It would have been picked up in the Kaggath, and we'd have two *****torms instead of just the one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Should'a let it go. That's what I did for my Scorps. Alas, he then figured out how epic they were. So lucky, he originally tried to give me only 12 Vindicators, instead of 20.... Why couldn't I have gotten one of these overblown estimates? Now I will never get a chance to complain about Beni being generous! But yeah, there was nothing stated in the rules about firepower dictating class. You specifically stated we were going by the Anaxes War College System, which clearly labels the Hapan Battle Dragons as Light Cruisers. Due to their flaws that require strategy to minimize, I say unnerf Tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I'm not doing this to favour or disfavour any one party, so again your accusations of biased elude me. However it is unfair that Tune should have to pay for my mistakes, so I'll consult with him when he's available. I think this would be the prudent course of action, it really is the fighter number disparity this change caused that has me worried for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) Again, the Stealthed Vessels would cripple the Hapan Battle Dragons, and I find it cute that you're saying I'm biased, whilst posting that 6 Endurance Class Fleet Carriers and their entire Fighter squadron couldn't take out a single Battle Dragon The Hapans had major flaws in their designs, and both of these flaws are very exploitable by the Republic's fleets. And no, the Cross of Fire was completely different. The Imperial Ships were designed to all fire forward, Cross of Fire was designed to specifically target one specific area of the ship, and whilst this could not overwhelm Mon Calamari shields on their own, the Hammerheads have a steep Numbers advantage that would make it possible. I'm comparing ships themselves Sel not their fighters, chill out. Sarcasm doesn't become you. And the Hammerhead has flaws as well. Plus the Battle Dragons' flaws were advantages in different situations, they were designed the way they were for a reason but I'll let Tune argue the Battle Dragons as he has a better grip on Hapan stuff than I do. As for the Cross of Fire, yeah I'm still not seeing a major difference to the Imperial method (except that it doesn't require the enemy to be directly forward of the ship) so I still disagree. Besides, can I see a source that confirms this is a tactic used by the Hammerhead? The Scythe was built thousands of years later so I refuse to accept that just because they are somewhat similar they therefore used the same tactics. Edit: also what stealth vessels does the RR get? I can't see a single one. Edited July 28, 2014 by StarSquirrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 No it's not... the Hapan Battle Dragon is a "cruiser" on the Verge of being a "Heavy Cruiser" Whilst it's length was that of a large cruiser, it's shape would probably classify it as a Heavy Cruiser, given the fact that the Anaxes system was bent in the past to allow for ships with a larger surface area to classify as larger. I mean come on, you made the same arguments about the Legacy of Torment. Being able to one shot Heavy Capital ships, and being able to put out numerous, inaccurate lasers are vastly different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Being able to one shot Heavy Capital ships, and being able to put out numerous, inaccurate lasers are vastly different. ^ he has a point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Being able to one shot Heavy Capital ships, and being able to put out numerous, inaccurate lasers are vastly different. I should have supported Warren >.> I feel betrayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 But yeah, there was nothing stated in the rules about firepower dictating class. You specifically stated we were going by the Anaxes War College System, which clearly labels the Hapan Battle Dragons as Light Cruisers. Due to their flaws that require strategy to minimize, I say unnerf Tune. Again, the Anaxes War College system labels them as "cruisers" and they're exactly halfway up that bracket, however they are a lot larger than other cruisers of their length, and have superior firepower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I should have supported Warren >.> I feel betrayed. Hey, I still think Tune overall will LOSE the space battle, I just hate it when something like this happens. Once this is all straightened out, I will get to actually analyzing more than numbers, which is all this is doing. Besides, the HammerHead is the perfect vessel for taking out the Hapan Battledragons due to previously listed reasons. Just... let this get sorted out, because like I said, I haven't decided who to support, and mostly trying to stay neutral. You already know how I get when rules bend/break or people are treated unfairly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I'm comparing ships themselves Sel not their fighters, chill out. Sarcasm doesn't become you. Edit: also what stealth vessels does the RR get? I can't see a single one. Sarcasm is all I have Agreed on letting Tune wait. No sources specifically state it, except saying that they had greater tactical and concentrated fire (Kotor CG) than the other Capital Ships of their time, but Beni and I had this discussion over PM, where he greatly convinced me that they could do this. Refer to him for that argument. Sienar gives them the Republic's Stealth Ship, which could be armed with Diamond Boron Missiles to produce a Catastrophically large blast against the fleet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Hey, I still think Tune overall will LOSE the space battle, I just hate it when something like this happens. Once this is all straightened out, I will get to actually analyzing more than numbers, which is all this is doing. Besides, the HammerHead is the perfect vessel for taking out the Hapan Battledragons due to previously listed reasons. Just... let this get sorted out, because like I said, I haven't decided who to support, and mostly trying to stay neutral. You already know how I get when rules bend/break or people are treated unfairly. Pfft, You should have been around for my first Kaggath dude. But yeh, personally I see allowing him to keep that many Vessels in the first place is specifically breaking the rules... If he gets those then I totally want my 15 Endurance's back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 I just wanted to note that the decision to decrease the number of battle dragons goes against how you said you were sorting the ships. If Tune found a ship that has that much firepower potential that small, give him his numbers and compliment him on a nice find. You said we were going by the Anaxes War College System. Well, by that system they are Light Cruisers. Do not go back on your previous decrees. It makes a mess for the judges when they have to go through them. ...The Anaxes classifications were flexible, with warships sometimes moved up or down a class based on their armament or intended role... --Taken from the Essential Guide to Warfare. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwy412nttI&t=6m35s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Pfft, You should have been around for my first Kaggath dude. But yeh, personally I see allowing him to keep that many Vessels in the first place is specifically breaking the rules... If he gets those then I totally want my 15 Endurance's back While we wait for Tune, please tell me about your First Kaggath. (not sarcasm) Sel, one headache at a time, please! Besides, Endurance doesn't have nearly as many weaknesses. In theory, 1-2 missiles could kill a Battledragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) Sienar gives them the Republic's Stealth Ship, which could be armed with Diamond Boron Missiles to produce a Catastrophically large blast against the fleet. This is battlegrounds. I point you to a personal favorite of mine, rule #41 which states. #41 While naval forces do still exist, shipyards (if you have any) can only repair, they cannot resupply. Fleet numbers are therefore static; note that this only applies to capital ships. Also note that anything built by Sinear would have to be actually built (which takes time) and travel to the battleground (again, more time)... The Republic Stealth ship is a corvette, and therefore a capital ship. It is banned by the rules, sorry. Edited July 28, 2014 by StarSquirrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 This is battlegrounds. I point you to a personal favorite of mine, rule #41 which states. Overruled! So I can make my little stealth ship? Seeing as it's barely larger than a fighter...Its a transport i.e. not a capital ship so yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Overruled! It is a 100 meters long cargo ship repurposed as a capital warship prototype. It is classed as a corvette and a corvette is a capital ship. Cargo ships aren't armed with proton torpedoes and top secret stealth generators... I'd like Beni to have a second look, I definitely think this thing qualifies as a capital ship in size, purpose, armaments and use. If it was just to ferry forces down to the planet should the WA win the space battle I'd be fine but you're arguing it'll be used to blow up ships 5-6 times its size and that it'd do so easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 Overruled!Well I had forgotten about those missle capabilities (was thinking in terms of transporting/blockade running) so I think we'll be stripping that of its weapons to conform to the rules. Oh, did you want those? P.S. Also Sienar would be able to supply the RR with additional fighter models, obviously this would not add to the fighter pool as one can only carry so much, but it means that the RR will have a more varied selection. And yes they would be pre-fielded, like Yorik-tremas etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Well I had forgotten about those missle capabilities (was thinking in terms of transporting/blockade running) so I think we'll be stripping that of its weapons to conform to the rules. Oh, did you want those? P.S. Also Sienar would be able to supply the RR with additional fighter models, obviously this would not add to the fighter pool as one can only carry so much, but it means that the RR will have a more varied selection. And yes they would be pre-fielded, like Yorik-tremas etc. exactly my thoughts, thanks Beni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Well I had forgotten about those missle capabilities (was thinking in terms of transporting/blockade running) so I think we'll be stripping that of its weapons to conform to the rules. Oh, did you want those? P.S. Also Sienar would be able to supply the RR with additional fighter models, obviously this would not add to the fighter pool as one can only carry so much, but it means that the RR will have a more varied selection. And yes they would be pre-fielded, like Yorik-tremas etc. Well, I got tunewalker'd.... Whatever, Tie Defenders would do the same thing. Also, they do add to my starfighter pool as all of my starfighters are equipped with Hyperdrives, so all that we have left to do is figure out how many Sienar could field. So yeh... How many Defenders could they field? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Well I had forgotten about those missle capabilities (was thinking in terms of transporting/blockade running) so I think we'll be stripping that of its weapons to conform to the rules. Actually, I would protest this. The Missile capabilities were it's only defensive systems, so I think it'd be fair to allow them. Noting of course that If I use these in an offensive measure, they'd get obliterated afterwards. It'd be a one time thing, and it would leave me without a blockade runner should I lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 Well, I got tunewalker'd.... Whatever, Tie Defenders would do the same thing. Also, they do add to my starfighter pool as all of my starfighters are equipped with Hyperdrives, so all that we have left to do is figure out how many Sienar could field. So yeh... How many Defenders could they field?Aww, I was hoping you'd get a bit more mad. The I could have Your right on that one however... several? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) Actually, I would protest this. The Missile capabilities were it's only defensive systems, so I think it'd be fair to allow them. Noting of course that If I use these in an offensive measure, they'd get obliterated afterwards. It'd be a one time thing, and it would leave me without a blockade runner should I lose.Ha ha! EDIT: No but seriously, I think the cloaking device is its defensive systems, the missle capabilities are definitely the offensive capabilities that Anakin used to disregard Kenobi's passive strategy and go on the offensive. And what did that result in? The crippling of an entire blockade. Edited July 28, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 With the Hutt Cartel, I also get access to the Vast array of fighters and smugglers in the underworld, and as the Space battle likely wouldn't start immediately, those on my supply world (Which just happens to be the battleground) and those from around the Galaxy could join the fight. So yeh, we should discuss the difference that a lot of underworld freighters, and Sienar ships would bring. Note of course, that Yes, Revan and Meetra have worked with the Hutts before, and Jace witnessed the blockade of the Hydian way being broken by Hylo Visz, which would likely give him a trust of the underworld that some people don't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Aww, I was hoping you'd get a bit more mad. The I could have Your right on that one however... several? You're getting too predictable, I could have predicted this post word for word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) you're getting too predictable, i could have predicted this post word for word I'm not actually Beni, he's been on holiday for a while now. I'm just a gonk droid he uploaded the rulebook into... GONK! Edited July 28, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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