Doreian Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Nah ah silly goose. Your point is based on an assumption that isn't relevant. It is relevant. I'm sorry that you are unable to comprehend the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesixxpack Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 It is relevant. I'm sorry that you are unable to comprehend the discussion. You think I didn't catch your point. I did. It isn't relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedip_enguin Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 People wanting a signed notarized and legally binding contract so that people don't steal their pixels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doreian Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 You think I didn't catch your point. I did. It isn't relevant. It is in so much as people seem to think that their guild leader is going to take off with 50 million credits and they want protection from that. Like I said before if the guild leader hasn't taken off with everything in the guild bank now then why do it after the deposit for guild ships is made? So yes whats in the guild bank is relevant because not all guilds dump their non GTN trash in the guild bank. Alot of big organized guilds have millions in credits already and expensive items in the gbank left soley up to the discretion of the Guild leader on what to do with them. So this boils down to a couple things. 1. Its too expensive for some smaller guilds(plenty of threads on that) 2. Worried about guild leader skipping out with 50 million credits (Guilds who are medium to small and have little value items in guildbank and low creds, or it wouldnt be an issue) So yes it is relevant. Again I apologize that you cannot comprehend that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icestar Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Step 1: Recruit unsuspecting new players. Step 2: Request credits for guild capitol ship for fun and frivolity of all Step 3: GKick new recruits Since this seems to be perfectly legal to do I would suspect this happens aswell. I would like to see some policy change from Bioware when they implement large items like this. If I helped out with several millions only to be kicked later OR the guildmaster taking it all and dispands I would be very very mad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 People wanting a signed notarized and legally binding contract so that people don't steal their pixels. When those pixels were purchased with real life money and also involve real life time and investment, then yea... If they could be poofed out of thin air, then no, they wouldn't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesixxpack Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Again I apologize that you cannot comprehend that. You're forgiven for thinking plain old embezzlement opportunities over time are the same as a pile of 50 mil sitting in front of someone. There are different factors to consider for those scenarios. Guilds with that or more on hand are exceptions to the rule. But are they the norm? Hardly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Bioware, if you're going to charge 50 million for guild ships, I hope you have thought about the ramifications that will come with such a high price. Since there's no universal taxing system for guilds, this will be 100% dependent on player trust and player contributions. What policies are you putting in place to prevent abuse and protect those who contribute? Obviously you have a way to refund players contributions if they're kicked from the guild right? And you've devised a way to prevent some single player from emptying the entire bank and making off with the $? And there's no possibility of my contribution being used to fund repairs right? The abuses that will come with a cost this high are many...but...you guys have of course thought about that right? If you're going to ask a price so high, that only contributing players can possibly pay for it, you have an obligation to protect the players from the fraud that will inevitably follow. So what safeguards are you implementing to protect players who contribute to this outrageous sum? If you don't feel like you can trust your GL, don't contribute. I say this to everyone, not just you. Right now, we have no means of regaining what is lost if a GL loses his mind, kicks everyone, steals everything in the gbank and changes his name and the guild name. Why? Because as GL, he has a right to do all those things. So, what difference does it make now that Guild Ships are a part of the equation? I trust my GL. I trust my guild. I have no issues at all in contributing to the Guild for the Guild Ship. If I were in a more mercenary guild and a more mercenary mentality, I'd probably not contribute at all. But, thankfully, I have a good guild. Find a guild you can trust, with people you trust and all this concern will be unwarranted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryniloym Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 exactly. why would you be in a guild with a bunch of people you don't trust? guilds are supposed to be about forming bonds with guildies. if you can't, leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 If that is all you have in your guild bank then what is the point of having a guild bank? Or a guild ship for that matter? What do you keep in yours? Ours is filled with stuff anyone can use - dyes, crafting mats, armors, CM stuff (especially XP boosts). What do you keep in yours that's so special? I can't even send guild mail. When someone withdraws something, there's no notification like I feel there should be. Guilds are an afterthought right now in SWTOR...we had better guild tools before the game launched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 Step 1: Recruit unsuspecting new players. Step 2: Request credits for guild capitol ship for fun and frivolity of all Step 3: GKick new recruits Exactly what you'll see happening ikinai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Exactly what you'll see happening ikinai. And they have the right to do that. The guild belongs to the Guild Master. If people are that naive to donate to complete strangers, then...well, a fool and his money are soon parted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienEyeTX Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Step 1: Recruit unsuspecting new players. Step 2: Request credits for guild capitol ship for fun and frivolity of all Step 3: GKick new recruits Hey, no fair! That's MY plan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesixxpack Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 And they have the right to do that. The guild belongs to the Guild Master. Ability and right aren't the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Ability and right aren't the same thing. If you're arguing ethics, then I might agree with you, but the simple fact is that the Guild Master owns the guild and the guild bank and anything that's put in there. That's how the system is built and how it functions. There's simply no other way it could work. The addition of Guild Ships doesn't change this reality. If this bothers you, then either get your own Guild and Guild Ship, or find some friends that you can trust not to take the credits and run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesixxpack Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 If you're arguing ethics, then I might agree with you, but the simple fact is that the Guild Master owns the guild and the guild bank and anything that's put in there. That's how the system is built and how it functions. There's simply no other way it could work. The addition of Guild Ships doesn't change this reality. If this bothers you, then either get your own Guild and Guild Ship, or find some friends that you can trust not to take the credits and run. I see since you clarified that you're talking about current state reality. I disagree that there are no other ways it could work. The provided tools/structure is limited, BW could of course change that if they wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedip_enguin Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 If they could be poofed out of thin air, then no, they wouldn't care. It's weird, I play the game and credits just appear in my inventory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I see since you clarified that you're talking about current state reality. I disagree that there are no other ways it could work. The provided tools/structure is limited, BW could of course change that if they wanted to. Change it to 'what' exactly? I'm open to suggestions that are workable in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 exactly. why would you be in a guild with a bunch of people you don't trust? Well...on the PvP servers I've played, the majority of players have quit the game because BW is terrible at PvP. I've lost precise count of how many guilds I've left because they turned into ghost towns. It numbers around 20. I do try though and have joined new guilds. I'm in two of them currently. Sure, me and these players have common interests, but I really don't know most of them well and certainly don't trust them much. You see, most PvPers don't have much of a choice when the populations are slowly vanishing on their servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hebruixe Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I would like to see the following system implemented: Guild bank savings account. The money donated into this account cannot be removed or used by anyone (including the guild master). It is permanently "saved" for the guild's starship. Once the grand sum reaches 50 millioin, a starship is automatically purchased for the guild. Furthermore, anyone who donates more than X credits (for example, 2 million) receives permanent immunity from being kicked out of the guild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_of_Mu Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Seeing as how I went from guild banking officer for a good 8 years to GM because nearly everyone left. I don't think my few remaining guild members have anything to fear. Aside from my horrible decorating style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I would like to see the following system implemented: Guild bank savings account. The money donated into this account cannot be removed or used by anyone (including the guild master). It is permanently "saved" for the guild's starship. Once the grand sum reaches 50 millioin, a starship is automatically purchased for the guild. Furthermore, anyone who donates more than X credits (for example, 2 million) receives permanent immunity from being kicked out of the guild. Yeah, that wouldn't be abused at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) This is the thing. When you are looking for a guild you'd rather have a guild that has a ship than have to pay part of it yourself and then realise you don't fit in with the guild or get kicked for whatever reason. It's going to come down to guilds who have a decent history with each other being ok and the rest is going to be down to the gm and or some officers to cough up. I suspect new guilds will have a harder time because of all this and that small guilds will simply have to do without or be really trusting to invest millions into it. Edited July 25, 2014 by Tsillah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebevo Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Furthermore, anyone who donates more than X credits (for example, 2 million) receives permanent immunity from being kicked out of the guild.That would only support bad behavior. NO THANK YOU. We have only kicked 1 or 2 players from our guild and we have been around since early access, so if someone needs to be kicked then they should be kicked. That should be up to the guild not bioware and definitely should not get to pay to get a get out of jail free card. Someone steals or abuses another guild member or the community in general, then they should be kicked if that is what the officers and guild decides. It should be up to the guild how they handle it. Our guild only kicks after discussion/debate among the officers. Before I was a officers a officer sometimes would feel me out about someones behavior and my thoughts before they kicked. Since I've been a officer I don't think we have kicked anyone. I can pretty much say we would return the money, depending on the reason for the kick. If they stole credits from others, then we would refund the credits to that person and not to who we kicked. Otherwise we would return the credits to the person even if the officers had to take the credits off our own toons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 And they have the right to do that. The guild belongs to the Guild Master. If people are that naive to donate to complete strangers, then...well, a fool and his money are soon parted. Besides, expecting BW to spend real money (the cost of the customer service rep's time) so that someone who was stupid can recover their play-money credits is just unrealistic. BW can do it they want to, for BW's own reasons, but expecting or, even worse, demanding that they do so is just extreme selfishness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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