Guildships COST 50 MILLION CREDITS!?

[Grayseven]

For those of you who keep expounding on how 50 million isn't a lot and you have to work for it and all the other BS you spout trying to justify EA/BW stance that 50 million is reasonable...

 

Why is it so important to you to have the price so high? Is it because, secretly, you want the exclusivity that setting the bar that high would entail?

 

See, like THC mentions over and over (because it appears he has NO other argument to give), if you started preparing when the announcement first happened you'd be just fine come launch. Well, our guild did. We are large and well trusted by our membership since we are adults and family oriented.

 

But we set our target at what we considered a reasonable level. As adults, we came to a consensus that the Guild Ships would run in the 15 to 20 million range. High enough to require effort, not so high as to screw over smaller guilds.

 

We continued our normal routine, throwing credits into the bank at a reasonable (to us) rate and hit the 15 million credit mark quickly. Since we have guilds of both factions, we split our "effort" on both sides. But more importantly, we continued to have fun...as we always do when we play...and didn't have to change the way we did things.

 

Then came word of the 50 million price tag and what looks like an additional 60 million in "add ons". It required the entire guild to reconsider our plans.

 

Now, all of the membership is doing nothing but earning credits on both the Imp and Rep sides. For the entire last week, we've done nothing else as a guild that didn't involve raising credits. Not a single one of us wanted to do this, since it is as far from being fun as you could possibly get while still playing a game, but we felt we owed it to our membership to give them the content they have been looking forward to since the announcement.

 

In less than a week we earned 50 million. At our current rate, we should have over 110 million in both guild banks within a few weeks. If we aren't running dailies we are grinding materials for sale or running the better paying operations and vendoring everything we loot.

 

Does any of this seem fun to anyone? Because it isn't fun for us. Normal guild activities are on hold until we can be assured our credit balances are high enough to be able to access and enjoy the new content.

 

What's funny is that I originally thought these would be credit sinks, when in fact they are actually the exact opposite since players are doing little more than creating new credits through dailies and vendoring items in order to reach the goal.

 

As for small guilds? Pretty much screwed unless they devote every gaming moment to earning credits. As a large guild at least we have the luxury of grinding it out for a couple of weeks and stopping, but smaller guilds are going to be stuck doing the credit grind for much, much longer.

 

As to those misguided souls who preach "planning ahead" and "hard work"...

 

This is a game folks. I shouldn't have to "plan ahead" and I sure as hell shouldn't have to "work hard". I do that in real life and it makes me long for the carefree days of my childhood more than anything else I have to do. Dropping the price tag for a guild ship down to a more reasonable level won't hurt anyone unless someone feels that the price should be so high as to limit access to larger guilds or to people for whom playing this game is their life. It can only help people, allowing smaller guilds access to what Guild Ships bring.

 

So continue with your endless attacks because people want "something for nothing" even though that has not once been asked for. Rally around your "work for it" mantra while ignoring the fact that most people have real lives and can't spend all their free time playing a game. Continue to blindly defend a development decision that is flawed to anyone with half a brain. You are simply showing your ignorance.

[Darkheyr]

/signed.

 

Thank you, Grayseven.

[Infernixx]

Hobby/game does not equal into 'no effort required.'

 

My brother works harder at restoring old cars as a hobby than he does at his home construction job. He sweats, bleeds, burns himself on hot metal. He spends a stupidly large amount of money and time on those clunkers, far more than he does on his job.

 

Something to think about when you say that 'this is a game and therefore should not require effort!'

[Darkheyr]

Hobby/game does not equal into 'no effort required.'

 

My brother works harder at restoring old cars as a hobby than he does at his home construction job. He sweats, bleeds, burns himself on hot metal. He spends a stupidly large amount of money and time on those clunkers, far more than he does on his job.

 

Something to think about when you say that 'this is a game and therefore should not require effort!'

 

But he has fun doing so.

 

People work hard at painting Warhammer miniatures before they ever field them to a match. But they have fun doing so.

 

I spend hours in creating, preparing D&D or Rogue Trader Sessions as a DM, in addition to the actual play session. But I have fun doing so.

 

 

I do not have fun doing dailies. See the difference?

[Infernixx]

But he has fun doing so.

 

People work hard at painting Warhammer miniatures before they ever field them to a match. But they have fun doing so.

 

I spend hours in creating, preparing D&D or Rogue Trader Sessions as a DM, in addition to the actual play session. But I have fun doing so.

 

 

I do not have fun doing dailies. See the difference?

 

Then do something else that earns you credits and you 'do' enjoy. Do Operations, do Hard Mode Flashpoints, craft stuff, do PVP, do old Heroics and convert Comms into BoE pieces for resale.

 

Get with your guild and do stuff as a group. There's always a way, unless there's nothing in this game that you enjoy doing and if this 'is' the case then maybe you need a better game. Or a better guild.

[DarthTHC]

For those of you who keep expounding on how 50 million isn't a lot and you have to work for it and all the other BS you spout trying to justify EA/BW stance that 50 million is reasonable...

 

Why is it so important to you to have the price so high? Is it because, secretly, you want the exclusivity that setting the bar that high would entail?

 

See, like THC mentions over and over (because it appears he has NO other argument to give), if you started preparing when the announcement first happened you'd be just fine come launch. Well, our guild did. We are large and well trusted by our membership since we are adults and family oriented.

 

But we set our target at what we considered a reasonable level. As adults, we came to a consensus that the Guild Ships would run in the 15 to 20 million range. High enough to require effort, not so high as to screw over smaller guilds.

 

We continued our normal routine, throwing credits into the bank at a reasonable (to us) rate and hit the 15 million credit mark quickly. Since we have guilds of both factions, we split our "effort" on both sides. But more importantly, we continued to have fun...as we always do when we play...and didn't have to change the way we did things.

 

Then came word of the 50 million price tag and what looks like an additional 60 million in "add ons". It required the entire guild to reconsider our plans.

 

Now, all of the membership is doing nothing but earning credits on both the Imp and Rep sides. For the entire last week, we've done nothing else as a guild that didn't involve raising credits. Not a single one of us wanted to do this, since it is as far from being fun as you could possibly get while still playing a game, but we felt we owed it to our membership to give them the content they have been looking forward to since the announcement.

 

In less than a week we earned 50 million. At our current rate, we should have over 110 million in both guild banks within a few weeks. If we aren't running dailies we are grinding materials for sale or running the better paying operations and vendoring everything we loot.

 

Does any of this seem fun to anyone? Because it isn't fun for us. Normal guild activities are on hold until we can be assured our credit balances are high enough to be able to access and enjoy the new content.

 

What's funny is that I originally thought these would be credit sinks, when in fact they are actually the exact opposite since players are doing little more than creating new credits through dailies and vendoring items in order to reach the goal.

 

As for small guilds? Pretty much screwed unless they devote every gaming moment to earning credits. As a large guild at least we have the luxury of grinding it out for a couple of weeks and stopping, but smaller guilds are going to be stuck doing the credit grind for much, much longer.

 

As to those misguided souls who preach "planning ahead" and "hard work"...

 

This is a game folks. I shouldn't have to "plan ahead" and I sure as hell shouldn't have to "work hard". I do that in real life and it makes me long for the carefree days of my childhood more than anything else I have to do. Dropping the price tag for a guild ship down to a more reasonable level won't hurt anyone unless someone feels that the price should be so high as to limit access to larger guilds or to people for whom playing this game is their life. It can only help people, allowing smaller guilds access to what Guild Ships bring.

 

So continue with your endless attacks because people want "something for nothing" even though that has not once been asked for. Rally around your "work for it" mantra while ignoring the fact that most people have real lives and can't spend all their free time playing a game. Continue to blindly defend a development decision that is flawed to anyone with half a brain. You are simply showing your ignorance.

 

See, the entertaining thing about your whole rant about me is that exactly one person has done the opposite - said here's what my guild is like, here's the effort we think is reasonable, here's the timeframe we think is reasonable, and therefore here's the cost we think is reasonable.

 

Exactly one poster has done that so far (who had a guild bigger than 3 active players).

 

All the rest? "I don't like it." With absolutely no backing, no detail, no information to support it or offer a thoughtful, rational, reasonable alternative.

 

Then you get into the "real lives" vs. "time spent playing the game" thing. I don't think I've ever seen someone I believe to be an adult who has a job, has a mortgage, has children, etc, say that. Because as adults who have achieved those things, we realize that everything has to be prioritized. We have to plan and think about how we balance our lives so that we can keep our jobs, keep our wives, raise our children to be productive, contributing members of society, and even walk our dogs once in a while but still get some gaming time in.

 

As adults who can plan and prioritize like that, we know it can be done, and therefore we don't accuse people who can plan and prioritize and execute of not having real lives, having an infinite time to game, or living in their parents' basement.

Edited July 30, 2014 by DarthTHC

[Darkheyr]

Except that nothing you said generates even close to the amount of credits as dailies do, as a net gain.

 

There are exactly two halfway reliable ways to do that - one of them even works while roleplaying. And that is sending out your companions and selling mats. The other one are Makeb Chest runs.

 

Both stop working once a lot of people are doing it.

[Darkheyr]

Exactly one poster has done that so far (who had a guild bigger than 3 active players).

 

All the rest? "I don't like it." With absolutely no backing, no detail, no information to support it or offer a thoughtful, rational, reasonable alternative.

 

Again, you ignoring posts or part of posts is not the same thing as people not doing it.

[Khevar]

Grayseven, you make some excellent points.

 

I only want to refute one statement you made:

So continue with your endless attacks because people want "something for nothing" even though that has not once been asked for.

There are in fact, at least 2 people in the various '50 million' threads that have specifically proposed FREE as a price for the base guild flagship.

 

Mind you, I'm NOT saying this justifies an attack. But I am saying that wanting the flagship for free is vastly different from asking for a lowered price.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Khevar

[DarthTHC]

Except that nothing you said generates even close to the amount of credits as dailies do, as a net gain.

 

There are exactly two halfway reliable ways to do that - one of them even works while roleplaying. And that is sending out your companions and selling mats. The other one are Makeb Chest runs.

 

Both stop working once a lot of people are doing it.

 

Surprisingly enough, the low level materials to make the 2.9 furnishing tokens are going through the roof... There's always something to sell. Heck, the staples I've used to make almost all of my credits are still going as strong as they ever have.

 

The chest runs? Yeah, they might be less effective if even a few people start doing them regularly.

 

But saying the GTN will stop generating profit (assuming you put in a bit of thought)? Cop out.

[TUXs]

Grayseven, you make some excellent points.

 

I only want to refute one statement you made:

 

There are in fact, at least 2 people in the various '50 million' threads that have specifically proposed FREE as a price for the base guild flagship.

 

Mind you, I'm NOT saying this justifies an attack. But I am saying that wanting the flagship for free is vastly different from asking for a lowered price.

 

I hope you're not including ME in the group of 2 asking for it for "FREE". I proposed in-game activities as an alternative. 5 PvP matches, 5 GSF, 5 FP's using GF, 5 Ops...stuff like that. That doesn't require credits of course, but I'd hardly call it "FREE". I was hoping it could be used to promote in-game activities that people would otherwise be reluctant to try.

[Darkheyr]

Nice for you.

 

On my server, prices keep dropping so far. It'll get worse with more people realizing the costs involved in GSH, and saving up / generating more credits.

[LordArtemis]

It can be done, perhaps it could even be said that it SHOULD be done. However, the question that noone seems to be asking is are players going to be WILLING to do it.

 

I would guess in a substantial group of cases not likely, but that is naturally speculation. And again, as with Legacy Storage and Strongholds, the question remains as to whether or not the prices like these are going to represent some kind of barrier for the playerbase.

 

At least with LS, if there is an issue (naturally that is speculative) it might be one that can be remedied with CM unlocks, especially if they are sold on the cheap in the GTN. But this will not be an option for Guild Ships.

 

It just seems to me that they needed to be a bit more creative with the pricing if they wanted to make sure there was widespread appeal...because at this price point, IMO, that is not guaranteed. Perhaps adding in some kind of combination of size and content clearance along with a reduced cost would have worked. As an example (very basic)....

 

1) 50 mil for outright purchase

2) 40 mil and 100 members

3) 30 mil, 50 members and cleared (blank)

4) 20 mil, 25 members and cleared (blank) and (blank)

 

The community would know better as to what the limits would and should be for the suggestion I posted, or perhaps the folly of doing so. The numbers and the like provided are to illustrate the idea only.

Edited July 30, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Drockter]

Actually... ashamedly, I do.. Grayseven, while I don't agree with the tone, made some very valid points that I had not previously considered. Now thinking back on some of your posts, I should have realized you were more into RP (please do not take that as an insult), I am not... nor do I understand the RP game style (obviously in the slightest). My own blunder for not realizing, or reading it if you out right said it. I was honestly sitting here thinking its almost impossible for me to conceive how you can play the game without tripping over credits (but that's how I play and enjoy the game).

 

While I do not believe that the bar should be set so low to make obtaining the ship "easy", (there is some truth (at least for me) about wanting to work towards something that is not easily obtainable (as Gray pointed out). An achievement if you will. If it is too easy, it takes the "fun" out of it for me.

 

I was wrong to assume, and for that I am sorry.

[Khevar]

I hope you're not including ME in the group of 2 asking for it for "FREE". I proposed in-game activities as an alternative. 5 PvP matches, 5 GSF, 5 FP's using GF, 5 Ops...stuff like that. That doesn't require credits of course, but I'd hardly call it "FREE". I was hoping it could be used to promote in-game activities that people would otherwise be reluctant to try.

Nono, of course not. Honestly, I prefer your type of solution to credits anyway.

 

In my perfect imaginary SW:TOR game, the guild would have to embark on an HK-51-like-multi-stage quest chain involving getting schematics for the ship, parts for it, and handling some epic problem for Kuat, in response for which they would construct the ship for you.

 

It's more believable than "I bot beeg sheep wit muney"

 

 

Of course, the inherent flaw in my idea is that it heavily favors PvE, so wouldn't really be fair to PvPers.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Khevar

[DarthTHC]

I hope you're not including ME in the group of 2 asking for it for "FREE". I proposed in-game activities as an alternative. 5 PvP matches, 5 GSF, 5 FP's using GF, 5 Ops...stuff like that. That doesn't require credits of course, but I'd hardly call it "FREE". I was hoping it could be used to promote in-game activities that people would otherwise be reluctant to try.

 

I sort of wish they would have done something like that. It would give that bit of extra incentive to group up with guild-mates and try something you don't do often or at all, as you say.

[AlienEyeTX]

I sort of wish they would have done something like that. It would give that bit of extra incentive to group up with guild-mates and try something you don't do often or at all, as you say.

 

Yes, doing actual guild work to gain guild rewards would be the best way to go. The only question would be how to scale it for mega vs. tiny guilds. It could (and should) be done, but it would require too much thinking on BWs end.

[TUXs]

Nono, of course not. Honestly, I prefer your type of solution to credits anyway.

 

In my perfect imaginary SW:TOR game, the guild would have to embark on an HK-51-like-multi-stage quest chain involving getting schematics for the ship, parts for it, and handling some epic problem for Kuat, in response for which they would construct the ship for you.

 

It's more believable than "I bot beeg sheep wit muney"

 

 

Of course, the inherent flaw in my idea is that it heavily favors PvE, so wouldn't really be fair to PvPers.

BAH! That is an awesome idea tbh...as much flack as KDY gets at times, it was a rather fun experiment in FP randomness.

[well]

Nono, of course not. Honestly, I prefer your type of solution to credits anyway.

 

In my perfect imaginary SW:TOR game, the guild would have to embark on an HK-51-like-multi-stage quest chain involving getting schematics for the ship, parts for it, and handling some epic problem for Kuat, in response for which they would construct the ship for you.

 

It's more believable than "I bot beeg sheep wit muney"

 

 

Of course, the inherent flaw in my idea is that it heavily favors PvE, so wouldn't really be fair to PvPers.

 

 

lol That was good. As long as it was open to all levels. That way everyone could be involved. Just don't put any part of it on Taris.

[Drockter]

Nice for you.

 

On my server, prices keep dropping so far. It'll get worse with more people realizing the costs involved in GSH, and saving up / generating more credits.

 

Yeah, here is where my RL bleeds into the game... I am counting on that. Call it speculation, or economics (supply and demand) ... I counting on the prices dropping on the GTN in general (people hording their credits) (demand low, price low) to craft items for the strongholds... as people save... but once they realize what is necessary to decorate the place the prices will rise, significantly (demand high = price high).

 

I am also cautious about crafting items for sale... mainly because the market is getting flooded with items that used to generate decent credits. Right now its a buyers market on the GTN (demand is low).

 

Right or wrong, that is part of my guildship building fund plan.

[Infernixx]

Nono, of course not. Honestly, I prefer your type of solution to credits anyway.

 

In my perfect imaginary SW:TOR game, the guild would have to embark on an HK-51-like-multi-stage quest chain involving getting schematics for the ship, parts for it, and handling some epic problem for Kuat, in response for which they would construct the ship for you.

 

It's more believable than "I bot beeg sheep wit muney"

 

 

Of course, the inherent flaw in my idea is that it heavily favors PvE, so wouldn't really be fair to PvPers.

 

The ONLY thing that's equally fair to all players, whatever their focus, is a straight-up credit cost.

[Drockter]

Nono, of course not. Honestly, I prefer your type of solution to credits anyway.

 

In my perfect imaginary SW:TOR game, the guild would have to embark on an HK-51-like-multi-stage quest chain involving getting schematics for the ship, parts for it, and handling some epic problem for Kuat, in response for which they would construct the ship for you.

 

It's more believable than "I bot beeg sheep wit muney"

 

 

Of course, the inherent flaw in my idea is that it heavily favors PvE, so wouldn't really be fair to PvPers.

 

Can we crowd source some funds to send Khevar to EA as a player representative?

 

Would have solved many issues and made people happy... new content, FP's, Heroics, maybe an Ops at the end... Could see the RP aspect (but would let others speak to that)... but in fairness, PvP'ers are somewhat left out as he points out.

[Tsillah]

The ONLY thing that's equally fair to all players, whatever their focus, is a straight-up credit cost.

 

Nope, it's not.

 

Why not you may ask...

 

Well that's only true if all types of gameplay equally reward credits. Only then would it be fair to all players. At this moment, I don't think you can seriously contend that that's the case.

[Darkheyr]

but in fairness, PvP'ers are somewhat left out as he points out.

 

Not if you add in multiple ways to go about it.

 

I still want guild ship battles, be they Guild vs Environment or Guild vs Guild using ground pvp and GSF.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Darkheyr

[DarthTHC]

Nope, it's not.

 

Why not you may ask...

 

Well that's only true if all types of gameplay equally reward credits. Only then would it be fair to all players. At this moment, I don't think you can seriously contend that that's the case.

 

True statement. Try chain-running KDY from 15 to 45 and see what happens to your credit balance.

 

Plus PvP'ers are totally gimped when it comes to making credits. I read it on the Internet so it must be true, regardless how many Crate-O-Matic's that one PvP guy (Alec?) has.

Edited July 30, 2014 by DarthTHC