Guildships COST 50 MILLION CREDITS!?

[AlienEyeTX]

Not a bad idea.

 

Personally, I had hoped that acquiring a guild flashship would have been done through a lengthy series of quests not dissimilar to HK-51 questline. Every stage would have required groups of guild members (i.e. nothing solo whatsoever).

 

Unfortunately, this would likely have angered those that don't like PvE.

 

I think this and/or some PvP missions to earn guild perks is a great idea! That is truly a guild working together. Getting 5, 10, 50 people to run boring dailies as often as possible is not really group work.

[Infernixx]

Did you just say that SW:TOR is a single player MMO to argue that a Group feature should be cheaper?

 

Some people need to redefine basic concepts in order for their arguments to make sense.

[Darkheyr]

I'm sure you've seen it before, but what about the suggestion that people use their resource gathering crew skills while playing their normal game and selling the proceeds on the GTN?

 

It's how I earn money actually, but it doesn't really work past a certain point. Prices started dropping already on my server. They'll continue to drop most likely. People are saving up - more sellers, less buyers. The more people sell turadium, the less people will buy mine. Simple math.

 

Even if prices were to crash, at half of normal prices you'd see a person make about 250k/day(very conservatively speaking).

 

You are already making assumptions about the play time of other players. I don't doubt you can make that kind of money, I often do more over the weekend - but I don't play every day, for instance. The average drops considerably.

 

While PvP commendations and PvE commendations have both been suggested as valid alternatives, what else can an RP guild easily acquire(and yes, I did say easily) aside from credits?

 

Commendation grind is the same stupidity. You are still thinking in currencies.

 

No, I'm not asking the wrong questions. You're just refusing to answer them because... well, I have my assumptions but I'll leave it to you to tell me why you won't answer them.

 

My questions say NOTHING about a credit grind. They simply ask about how much individual effort you think each active guild member should reasonably undertake to obtain the guild ship. The specific tasks are unspecified.

 

You do think that something as wondrous as a guild flagship should be earned, rather than simply handed out to any dork who can convince 3 people to group with him for 3 minutes, right?

 

Yes, you ARE implying a grind the very moment you use words like 'effort' and 'earning' things. This is a game, this is not about a pure investment in time - its about progressing through content and having fun doing so, or otherwise getting better while having fun. And while a free Harrower guild ship would not be my prefered solution, handing it out freely to everyone would be a significantly better solution than handing it out practically free to the "zomg we had to save so much like 260k per member" 500 man guild as its done right now.

 

As said, I would have liked an actual progression system for Strongholds. Multiple types of flagships. Multiple options. More tie-ins with other game systems. Something where the way to other parts of the content is more fun than just collecting credits, and something that doesnt differ between large and small guilds. I'm not certain how this would translate into whatever fictional effort currency you are dreaming of. I wouldn't care much either, as long as it isn't blocked off by some kind of arbitrary entry price tag, as long as small roleplaying guilds can acquire at least a basic ship without a month of credit grind, and as long as the content to get there is actually fun.

[Vandicus]

Guild goals:

- run 5 Ops

- run 5 FPs

- Compete in 5 WZ's

- use GF 5 times

- Play 5 GSF matches

 

You know...like activities in game.

 

I do recall bringing up the question of content completion vs credits(although I think a credits method is necessary for casuals)[we receive effectively 500k credits each month from our sub in the form of CC] in my thread:

"Credits are the least interesting way to grind Guild Flagship upgrades"

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=735643

 

Hah, I pre-empted this whole discussion in April.

[Khevar]

You can have that view and let others have theirs just the same.

I'm sorry, but I find your statements hypocritical in the extreme.

 

You are fighting against my view here. You are also giving me advice.

 

Do you see?

 

Now let me be clear about one thing, I have no problem whatsoever with you arguing against me, or fighting my view, or giving my advice. I think it is 100% okay that you do so. This is a forum after all, and it is a platform for expressing one's opinions, and discussing viewpoints. It is right that you do so, and correct that you are saying these things to me.

 

But I hope you realize how silly it is, to give someone advice that they shouldn't give advice. To argue against someone and say that they should not argue. To tell someone their view is wrong, and that they should let others have their view unimpeded.

 

----

 

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it" - Mitch Hedberg

Edited July 29, 2014 by Khevar

[AlienEyeTX]

It's how I earn money actually, but it doesn't really work past a certain point. Prices started dropping already on my server. They'll continue to drop most likely. People are saving up - more sellers, less buyers. The more people sell turadium, the less people will buy mine. Simple math.

 

 

 

You are already making assumptions about the play time of other players. I don't doubt you can make that kind of money, I often do more over the weekend - but I don't play every day, for instance. The average drops considerably.

 

 

 

Commendation grind is the same stupidity. You are still thinking in currencies.

 

 

 

Yes, you ARE implying a grind the very moment you use words like 'effort' and 'earning' things. This is a game, this is not about a pure investment in time - its about progressing through content and having fun doing so, or otherwise getting better while having fun. And while a free Harrower guild ship would not be my prefered solution, handing it out freely to everyone would be a significantly better solution than handing it out practically free to the "zomg we had to save so much like 260k per member" 500 man guild as its done right now.

 

As said, I would have liked an actual progression system for Strongholds. Multiple types of flagships. Multiple options. More tie-ins with other game systems. Something where the way to other parts of the content is more fun than just collecting credits, and something that doesnt differ between large and small guilds. I'm not certain how this would translate into whatever fictional effort currency you are dreaming of. I wouldn't care much either, as long as it isn't blocked off by some kind of arbitrary entry price tag, as long as small roleplaying guilds can acquire at least a basic ship without a month of credit grind, and as long as the content to get there is actually fun.

 

Well, if they had continued the class stories, it would have been easy to tie in Strongholds as a reward. It would have progressed as naturally as when your get your ship.

 

But, well...

[Infernixx]

I find it absolutely silly that people are now trying to say that the game is geared toward small groups when 8man and 16man content is the pinnacle of PVE content.

 

By the way, a group of 4 players could hit 50mil in 3 weeks, which is how much time we have left.

[Tsillah]

8 players is the minimum for operations. Based upon my experience with ops and players and schedules and such, that's 10 to 12 active players in the guild to field an ops group once each week. Let's cal lit 11.

 

Let's say that 11 people is willing to put 2 hours of gaming time each week into earning a guild flagship. Let's say they do it the nastiest way possible - running dailies.

 

I've read a lot of threads about how much dailies can get you and 250k per 2 hours seems to stick. May be a bit more, may be a bit less, but let's assume 250k.

 

250,000 credits across a guild of 11 is 2,750,000 per week. It would take that guild of 11 about 18 weeks to obtain a guild flagship at that pace.

 

Now, interestingly enough, guild flagships were announced in mid-March of this year... 19 weeks ago.

 

Had that guild of 11 had the foresight and desire to obtain a guild ship back when they were announced as a certainty, they would now be spending their 2 hours per week on upgrades because they would have the base already covered.

 

This is all based on a tightly knit established guild set up and people with patience.

 

New guilds will have trouble getting people because they are not competitive with guilds who do have a guild ship.

 

Small guilds may very well have people leave and go somewhere where there is a guild ship.

 

To me it's not about whether the ship is or isn't worth the 50 million but that it's likely to create problems for many new and smaller guilds and that it will act as a guild breaker more than a guild maker. Establishe guilds large or small with be fine, but I just don't think that's the majority of guilds.

 

Also the issue when people put in the effort and then get booted from a guild is a concern that's out there. It's something that I will see happening and this will cause a lot of people to be cautious and only join guilds that already have a guild ship. And that brings it back to the other problems I mentioned. This could cause people to not want to invest into such things as it's a risk for them because for a lot of people it is a lot of work/credits and then it will more or less force new gm's or gm's of smalller guilds without the tight knit group to have to cough it up by themselves or give up on creating a new guild.

 

I don't know if that would be a healthy development.

 

I know they are just concerns and I don't know how bad it will be or if it will not be so bad at all, but these things don't seem unlikely to me and as soon as people start crying here and in general about being kicked from a guild after investing x million into the guild ship, that ball will start rolling.

[AlienEyeTX]

I find it absolutely silly that people are now trying to say that the game is geared toward small groups when 8man and 16man content is the pinnacle of PVE content.

 

By the way, a group of 4 players could hit 50mil in 3 weeks, which is how much time we have left.

 

"Could," yes. Technically that is possible. But it is certainly not reasonable.

[TUXs]

That didn't answer even one of my questions.

 

Crafting and running daily missions are also activities in the game. At least I think they are. I sure as heck remember logging in before doing those things, and using the SWTOR UI to do them. Could I have imagined that?

It was in response to your comment, not to answer any question of yours. And sure, toss the daily areas up on there as needing to be completed too. Good suggestion.

[Infernixx]

This is all based on a tightly knit established guild set up and people with patience.

 

New guilds will have trouble getting people because they are not competitive with guilds who do have a guild ship.

 

Small guilds may very well have people leave and go somewhere where there is a guild ship.

 

To me it's not about whether the ship is or isn't worth the 50 million but that it's likely to create problems for many new and smaller guilds and that it will act as a guild breaker more than a guild maker. Establishe guilds large or small with be fine, but I just don't think that's the majority of guilds.

 

Also the issue when people put in the effort and then get booted from a guild is a concern that's out there. It's something that I will see happening and this will cause a lot of people to be cautious and only join guilds that already have a guild ship. And that brings it back to the other problems I mentioned. This could cause people to not want to invest into such things as it's a risk for them because for a lot of people it is a lot of work/credits and then it will more or less force new gm's or gm's of smalller guilds without the tight knit group to have to cough it up by themselves or give up on creating a new guild.

 

I don't know if that would be a healthy development.

 

I know they are just concerns and I don't know how bad it will be or if it will not be so bad at all, but these things don't seem unlikely to me and as soon as people start crying here and in general about being kicked from a guild after investing x million into the guild ship, that ball will start rolling.

 

If guilds dry up and die because their players leave because they don't have a Guild Ship, then they weren't very solid guilds to begin with. You couldn't pay me to leave my own guild. If they decided not to get a Guild ship, I'd buy the blasted thing myself. And if I couldn't, then I'd rant and rage at them and then suck it up and get ready for Operation night. Because they're my guildies and my friends and that strangely enough transcends the game itself.

[Vandicus]

This is all based on a tightly knit established guild set up and people with patience.

 

New guilds will have trouble getting people because they are not competitive with guilds who do have a guild ship.

 

Small guilds may very well have people leave and go somewhere where there is a guild ship.

 

To me it's not about whether the ship is or isn't worth the 50 million but that it's likely to create problems for many new and smaller guilds and that it will act as a guild breaker more than a guild maker. Establishe guilds large or small with be fine, but I just don't think that's the majority of guilds.

 

Now what we need here is a scaling system, which very well might come into place with the introduction of smaller ships.

 

I think this is independent of the question of gating planetary conquest behind a 50 million credit price point.

[DarthTHC]

Well, if they had continued the class stories, it would have been easy to tie in Strongholds as a reward. It would have progressed as naturally as when your get your ship.

 

But, well...

 

Class stories are not guild stories. Why would they ever result in a reward designed for guilds?

[Infernixx]

"Could," yes. Technically that is possible. But it is certainly not reasonable.

 

'Reasonable' is a subjective term. If it means enough to a guild, they'll do it. Maybe smaller guilds don't get it on the first day of 2.9, that's hardly a tragedy.

[AlienEyeTX]

Class stories are not guild stories. Why would they ever result in a reward designed for guilds?

 

Stronghold is personal, not guild. Sorry, I guess that comment doesn't belong in this particular thread. My bad.

Edited July 29, 2014 by AlienEyeTX

[Vandicus]

"Could," yes. Technically that is possible. But it is certainly not reasonable.

 

The credits through crew skills method is what I'd considerable reasonable. I could go over it again, but people don't really seem keen on listening to it.

[Darkheyr]

I could think of a few ways to tie the storylines of individual classes together. Multiples of the same, well, I suppose those wouldnt be directly translatable.

[TUXs]

I find it absolutely silly that people are now trying to say that the game is geared toward small groups when 8man and 16man content is the pinnacle of PVE content.

 

By the way, a group of 4 players could hit 50mil in 3 weeks, which is how much time we have left.

Are you suggesting that SWTOR caters to BIG groups? Like...8 people?

WZ's are limited to 4.

FP's are limited to 4.

Group finder (for 8 player Ops) can be queued solo.

[AlienEyeTX]

The credits through crew skills method is what I'd considerable reasonable. I could go over it again, but people don't really seem keen on listening to it.

 

Ain't nobody got time for that!

[Zoom_VI]

I'm pretty sure at this point the reason G-ships cost so much, and that their upgrades cost even more, is because BW wanted to make sure strongholds would keep people busy till 3.0. They don't want everyone getting through everything in the first week, then go back to complaining about content.

[Darkheyr]

The credits through crew skills method is what I'd considerable reasonable. I could go over it again, but people don't really seem keen on listening to it.

 

I listened. I replied.

 

It's still not anymore practicable on a large scale. Too many people saving, now.

[AlienEyeTX]

Are you suggesting that SWTOR caters to BIG groups? Like...8 people?

WZ's are limited to 4.

FP's are limited to 4.

Group finder (for 8 player Ops) can be queued solo.

 

You're obviously overlooking the open world... oh, never mind.

[Infernixx]

Are you suggesting that SWTOR caters to BIG groups? Like...8 people?

WZ's are limited to 4.

FP's are limited to 4.

Group finder (for 8 player Ops) can be queued solo.

 

When they make 4man Operations with BiS gear, then you can say that TOR is geared toward small groups.

 

PVP doesn't count, by the way, just to clear that up.

[Vandicus]

I'm pretty sure at this point the reason G-ships cost so much, and that their upgrades cost even more, is because BW wanted to make sure strongholds would keep people busy till 3.0. They don't want everyone getting through everything in the first week, then go back to complaining about content.

 

Hah, they actually thought that would stop people from having maxed Guildships at launch?

 

50 million credits is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

[Tsillah]

I'm sorry, but I find your statements hypocritical in the extreme.

 

You are fighting against my view here. You are also giving me advice.

 

Do you see?

 

Well it depends. I do not fight your view as such. That is the view that people should ask for advice instead of asking for a nerf. I do however fight you, but not because of that view.

 

I fight you because you are trying to be a missionary for your beliefs. That's not having an opinion but shoving one down other's throat...you call it trying to convince others.

 

So it's not your opinion but the shoving that I object to.

 

I hope that clarifies that. If you find that hypocritical still, that's ok but then I will accept that I am a hypocrite in your view. I will still think you've gone religious on this forum

 

Now let me be clear about one thing, I have no problem whatsoever with you arguing against me, or fighting my view, or giving my advice. I think it is 100% okay that you do so. This is a forum after all, and it is a platform for expressing one's opinions, and discussing viewpoints. It is right that you do so, and correct that you are saying these things to me.

 

Ok that's fair enough.

 

But I hope you realize how silly it is, to give someone advice that they shouldn't give advice. To argue against someone and say that they should not argue. To tell someone their view is wrong, and that they should let others have their view unimpeded.

 

Well as I said, it depends a bit on what you talk about. Now if you say that your need to convince others is actually your viewpoint then yes I do object to the opinion that you think you should try to do this.

 

I never said you shouldn't argue but I did say that I found it interesting that someone who wants people to take advice wants to force that concept on them. That's no longer following advice, that's doing what you're told and I am not big on that.

 

But hey, all in all you're ok as a sparring partner, I will say that