Over three thousand years before the rise of Darth Vader...

[Jrr_hypernova]

still better than star trek where a borg cube goes from being a civilization crushing warship to a easily outmaneuvered and outgunned joke depending on who's wrote the episode

[theSCARAYone]

Comparing star wars to real life really doesn't work. It's a sci-fi fantasy and can be however it's writers want it to be.

[Hebruixe]

This is not a hate rant or anything, just some observations. One of my long standing pet-peeves with the game is the setting.

 

So, the game is set somewhere around three thousand years before the events of the Star Wars movies, yet the technology is still the same. The weapons, the ships, the cities, even the fashion are the same as that in the movies. Look at how far (real) human technological advancement has progressed in the last three thousand years—even in the last fifty—and yet the design of battleships, even handguns, in the Star Wars universe has not changed in thousands of years. I think it would have been cool if the game was set as the many races had advanced into space travel, or just discovered laser technology, etc. Anything that would have made the game feel like it was a long, long time before the rise of Darth Vader.

 

That said, I’m not gonna stop playing!

 

Anyway, what is your take?

 

Easy there, young padawan. Logic leads to nerd rage, which is the path of the dark side.

[tausra]

The Emperor was a huge fan of "Classical" style from the Old Republic and sith empires. It goes along with him being a massive historian and researcher into the era (For POWER! of course). So, he used his considerable influence to bring the style and aesthetics of his empire more in line with his favorite time period. A real world example would be the fact that in many cities, Judicial buildings, churches and colleges all are built in the image of the classic Greek style.

[OddballEasyEight]

Star wars is a fantasy setting (really, look it up) and one of the mainstays of most fantasy settings is that the technological level never changes much.

Just look at tolkiens Middle-earth. Thousands upon thousands of years of history and yet everyone still uses the same sort of technology.

 

Besides, once you develop the technology to travel faster than light and more, you've pretty much peaked.

The only ones that have gotten further are the celestials who could move planets around freely within the galaxy to set up solar systems and the like (for example the correllian system was assembled by them).

 

Instead, there are "waves" or "trends" in star wars technology where things get forgotten and then invented again. Like personal shields, which were common during the KotOR era, but then forgotten again since the use of said shields meant that combat favored close combat and slug throwers instead of blasters and thus the need for shields dissapeared. And then blasters became common again and so on. [1]

 

One thing you'll notice in SW:TOR tho, is that alot of things are generally larger. Personal ships are larger and bulkier than the ones in the movies. Blasters are generally larger and bulkier than in the movies.

Lightsabers too.

Alot of the armour seems to be as well. Superficially, alot of the trooper armour sets look similar to clone/storm troopers, but if you compare them side by side you'll notice that the ones in SW:TOR are alot thicker.

[OddballEasyEight]

I'll chop this quote up a bit to adress the parts individually.

 

Wow, a lot of really great comments here. Thank you!

 

Now, back on my soapbox!

 

So, as a Science Fiction fan, I can accept the plausibility of technology reaching a plateau, but what about the designs? I mean, the starships all look the same over the 3000 year period. Don’t you think the design would have changed. Real-life Automobile engines haven’t changed that drastically over the past few decades (minus some technology) yet we aren’t driving around cars that look like a 1973 Corvette. (Can you guess why I used that car as an example?)

 

This is a 1070 dodge challenger. This is a 2014 dodge challenger.

This is a SW movie era freighter ship. This is a SW:TOR era freighter ship.

 

Both similar but different. See what I mean?

There is of course a real life explanation why they look similar, but since you're asking for in-game ones, I'd say that the same company designed both and they have a certain "style" to uphold.

 

And what about fashions? I mean, the military uniforms don’t change in 3,000 years? What about the “vest and white shirt” of the Smuggler, ala Han Solo? I’m aware that fashions usually come around again, but when was the last time you saw anyone wearing a toga?

 

Actually people do wear togas in modern times. And I'm not talking about college frats here.

From wikipedia: The toga is also used by peoples that can claim descent from Romanized Punics, such as the Arabized Berbers of Tripolitania in Libya, a prominent example being its use by Muammar Gaddafi.

 

Besides, the "vest and white shirt" you claim smugglers wear, is pretty rare in the game actually.

Take a look at the smuggler designated clothing in the game. You'll notice that there are not very many vests and white shirt combos there. Only 5 IIRC.

Besides, they are sufficiently different to not look like "the same fashion".

I mean, just have a look at how suits have changed over the years. It could easily be called "the same fashion" but there are pretty large differences.

 

Anyway, how would some of you handle/explain/change these aspects?

 

Again, this isn’t a rant. I love the game. Just trying to stir up a little conversation.

 

The explanation is this: For technology, there's only so many ways to design a ship, a blaster, a speeder etc. Trends will come and go and things will look similar.

Same thing with fashion.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

.......................There is a reason why the Middle Ages are also known as the Dark Ages,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

This is incorrect.

 

Dark Ages are pretty much anything from the Romans leaving Britain up until the Norman Invasion.

 

Not an American are you ?

Edited July 25, 2014 by ThorgrimLutgen

[hadoken]

This is incorrect.

 

Dark Ages are pretty much anything from the Romans leaving Britain up until the Normal Invasion.

 

Not an American are you ?

 

The invasion of normal people? That sounds terribly boring.

[OddballEasyEight]

The invasion of normal people? That sounds terribly boring.

 

*Giggle*

[ThorgrimLutgen]

Bah for forgetting to proof read !

[TravelersWay]

The explanation is this: For technology, there's only so many ways to design a ship, a blaster, a speeder etc. Trends will come and go and things will look similar.

Same thing with fashion.

 

^This. How long ago was the wheel invented? Once a certain technology "reaches perfection" so to speak, there is no need for it to change, and in fact it cannot change because it has reached its end state. A wheel can only get so round.

Edited July 25, 2014 by TravelersWay

[Malastare]

It's been said before, but I'll add my voice to the chorus:

 

Star Wars has a better fit with standard Fantasy tropes than it does with Sci-Fi tropes. As such, it adopts the normal tech-stagnation that is endemic to Fantasy universes. No, it doesn't make a tremendous amount of sense, but that is the genre. You can justify it somewhat with various discussions about the linkage of advancement to population density (and the low population density of space...) or to the diminishing returns of technological advancement, but the end result still requires some acceptance of generalized stagnation.

 

The EU has attempted to evolve this in some cases into a weird hybrid stagnation/dark-age sort of thing, implying that earlier races had much more advanced toys, but they were destroyed/lost/hidden/buried-in-a-desert. Just like stagnation, this sort of makes sense, and sort of doesn't.

 

Finally, a historical nitpick that is somewhat on-topic:

 

Civilizations rise and fall. There is a reason why the Middle Ages are also known as the Dark Ages. We've learned that the old Egyptians had far superior medical knowledge that was lost for many centuries.

 

I always chuckle a bit at discussions of the Dark Ages. The knowledge from the Dark Ages wasn't lost. It was simply saved somewhere else. Most of that knowledge was adopted into Arabian and Byzantine culture, but that didn't really reach into Europe. It's important to remember that the Dark Ages were only "dark" for a majority of Europe. It was a golden age for Arabia. China and India didn't even get the memo. The truth is that the idea of the "Dark Ages" isn't as concrete as people expect. They weren't particularly dark. It is more correctly seen as a period of time when southern and western Europe weren't technological leaders in the world. I suppose if your world-view requires Europe to be the premiere location in the world for all things, then the "Dark Ages" might be a suitable name for the time.

 

Now, the interesting point here is that it does at least form a realistic, proven model for a number of societies entering a tech stagnation (or even regression) while other societies continue to flourish. At the same time, it does also show just how hard it is to destroy knowledge. Even the so-called "Dark Ages" only lasted a few centuries, and the SW galaxy requires accepting technological stagnation on a multi-millennial scale.

 

TL;DR: SW is closer to Fantasy, not "hard" Science-Fiction. It's fantasy in space, but still fantasy.

[PorsaLindahl]

Star wars is a fantasy setting (really, look it up) and one of the mainstays of most fantasy settings is that the technological level never changes much.

Just look at tolkiens Middle-earth. Thousands upon thousands of years of history and yet everyone still uses the same sort of technology.

 

Besides, once you develop the technology to travel faster than light and more, you've pretty much peaked.

The only ones that have gotten further are the celestials who could move planets around freely within the galaxy to set up solar systems and the like (for example the correllian system was assembled by them).

 

Instead, there are "waves" or "trends" in star wars technology where things get forgotten and then invented again. Like personal shields, which were common during the KotOR era, but then forgotten again since the use of said shields meant that combat favored close combat and slug throwers instead of blasters and thus the need for shields dissapeared. And then blasters became common again and so on. [1]

 

One thing you'll notice in SW:TOR tho, is that alot of things are generally larger. Personal ships are larger and bulkier than the ones in the movies. Blasters are generally larger and bulkier than in the movies.

Lightsabers too.

Alot of the armour seems to be as well. Superficially, alot of the trooper armour sets look similar to clone/storm troopers, but if you compare them side by side you'll notice that the ones in SW:TOR are alot thicker.

 

 

I asked a similar question back in beta, and the general explanations were very similar to this. Basically stating that Star Wars is Science Fantasy, not Science Fiction.

 

 

Keep in mind that in about 3000 years, Dr. Doofenschmirtz will create the blueprints for his "Ultimate Destructonator Ray" to be installed into a moon-sized base station (originally planned to be named "The Mooninator"). So if you ever happen to own property on Alderaan, take out a huge insurance policy.

 

Edited July 25, 2014 by PorsaLindahl

[Tolunart]

I always chuckle a bit at discussions of the Dark Ages. The knowledge from the Dark Ages wasn't lost. It was simply saved somewhere else. Most of that knowledge was adopted into Arabian and Byzantine culture, but that didn't really reach into Europe. It's important to remember that the Dark Ages were only "dark" for a majority of Europe. It was a golden age for Arabia. China and India didn't even get the memo. The truth is that the idea of the "Dark Ages" isn't as concrete as people expect. They weren't particularly dark. It is more correctly seen as a period of time when southern and western Europe weren't technological leaders in the world. I suppose if your world-view requires Europe to be the premiere location in the world for all things, then the "Dark Ages" might be a suitable name for the time.

.

 

Yep, historically speaking, white people have held the belief that the only history that really matters is their own. Consider that Columbus "discovered" America, an Italian mapmaker named it, and various European nations colonized it. There were already people living there for thousands of years before this, and during our takeover the white folks killed most of them and drove the rest from their ancestral homes, but that doesn't really matter, because they weren't white people.

 

Disclaimer: I'm one of those white people, but while this was happening my ancestors still lived in Europe. I've been told that one of my more recent ancestors was native to this continent, but I don't claim any ancestral right to the land. We're essentially occupying invaders.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Tolunart

[Lorrimar]

This is not a hate rant or anything, just some observations. One of my long standing pet-peeves with the game is the setting.

 

So, the game is set somewhere around three thousand years before the events of the Star Wars movies, yet the technology is still the same. The weapons, the ships, the cities, even the fashion are the same as that in the movies. Look at how far (real) human technological advancement has progressed in the last three thousand years—even in the last fifty—and yet the design of battleships, even handguns, in the Star Wars universe has not changed in thousands of years. I think it would have been cool if the game was set as the many races had advanced into space travel, or just discovered laser technology, etc. Anything that would have made the game feel like it was a long, long time before the rise of Darth Vader.

 

That said, I’m not gonna stop playing!

 

Anyway, what is your take?

 

I haven't read this whole thread, so I am unsure if someone mentioned it or not, but check out the Foundation series by Isaac Asimov. It's all about how technology can ebb & flow in a universe. I always took the star wars universe to be much like that. Through various wars & other actions things have caused technology to advance & then degrade over thousands of years multiple times.

[DarthDymond]

I haven't read this whole thread, so I am unsure if someone mentioned it or not, but check out the Foundation series by Isaac Asimov. It's all about how technology can ebb & flow in a universe. I always took the star wars universe to be much like that. Through various wars & other actions things have caused technology to advance & then degrade over thousands of years multiple times.

Well, the Foundation series' Trantor (sp?) Was the basis for Coruscant, so sounds as good as any theory.

[Khevar]

Well, the Foundation series' Trantor (sp?) Was the basis for Coruscant, so sounds as good as any theory.

I love those books! I should probably read them again -- it's been over 15 years for me, and I only remember the story in broad strokes.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Khevar