SW:TOR 4th biggest Sub MMO in the world

[Reno_Tarshil]

Can you "play" a character slot?

 

Yes, by playing a Character Slot you are playing it to make a new character.

[Jandi]

TL;DR I just feel that SWTOR is moving forward too slowly. Anyone can agree or disagree with that. Whether it's as fast as WoW or not doesn't change that feeling. Content releases are not regular and don't take all player groups into account leaving people wanting for more even if we just got a new update.

 

I did read it. The problem here is that you don't understand how long it takes to add stuff, and it's not just you. Most people have no concept of how long it takes to make things in an MMO. It's physically impossible to churn out stuff at the pace people seem to expect, it's ridiculous.

 

This isn't the The Sims where you just plop down walls and call it a house.

 

Someone has to design the zone, make textures for it, design new enemies, make textures and models for the new enemies, tune them, design boss mechanics that aren't just stupid tank and spank, make sure those mechanics WORK and cannot be exploited. Then someone has to test it, again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again. Then someone has to design loot tables. Then they have to tune and test it for 16man. Then they have to make SURE you can do it with any combination of classes. You HAVE to be able to complete an operation with 16 Bounty Hunters or Inquisitors. Then they have to write the dialogues and record them. Then they have to make it all fit with the Tier it's designed for.

 

The last boss of TFB probably took 6 months to do on it's own, and that is something most people cannot even comprehend. Now, take into account all the internal changes that have happened to the studio and the game itself.

 

If you're bored, play something else till new stuff comes along. No one is forcing anyone to keep their sub running if they don't play.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Jandi

[Draqsko]

If you're bored, play something else till new stuff comes along. No one is forcing anyone to keep their sub running if they don't play.

 

Wait a minute, I thought there was a BW employee putting a 9mm to the back of everyone's head and telling them that they can only play swtor.

[Jandi]

Wait a minute, I thought there was a BW employee putting a 9mm to the back of everyone's head and telling them that they can only play swtor.

 

They way some people talk, you can almost believe it.

[Tsillah]

I did read it. The problem here is that you don't understand how long it takes to add stuff, and it's not just you. Most people have no concept of how long it takes to make things in an MMO. It's physically impossible to churn out stuff at the pace people seem to expect, it's ridiculous.

 

This is not the problem. I may not know exactly but I do know it takes work to bring things into the game. That's a resource issue and my point has always been that they should have a bigger dev team. Also you don't know what it takes so you can't make any counterclaims either. So you're being ridiculous yourself for two reasons.

 

1) You assume I think it's easy to add content, which I never said

2) You make claims about how long it takes to add content without knowing yourself how long it takes.

 

This isn't the The Sims where you just plop down walls and call it a house.

 

Was there a point here?

 

 

Someone has to design the zone, make textures for it, design new enemies, make textures and models for the new enemies, tune them, design boss mechanics that aren't just stupid tank and spank, make sure those mechanics WORK and cannot be exploited. Then someone has to test it, again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again. Then someone has to design loot tables. Then they have to tune and test it for 16man. Then they have to make SURE you can do it with any combination of classes. You HAVE to be able to complete an operation with 16 Bounty Hunters or Inquisitors. Then they have to write the dialogues and record them. Then they have to make it all fit with the Tier it's designed for.

 

You do spend a lot of time explaining something to me that I already know. Why? I guess because you assume I don't get this because that's what you want to believe I think. It's not, however, and as stated above I never said it was easy to add content.

 

The last boss of TFB probably took 6 months to do on it's own, and that is something most people cannot even comprehend. Now, take into account all the internal changes that have happened to the studio and the game itself.

 

So where did you get this 6 months number or did you pull that number out of your ***? Honestly, I do know it takes time but I also know that if they put more resources in development (as in hiring some more people) they can do more. Surely with the millions they made last year they could choose to invest a bit more into content development?

 

If you're bored, play something else till new stuff comes along. No one is forcing anyone to keep their sub running if they don't play.

 

I am doing exactly that, but I do need to stay subbed to get my house unlocks, don't I?

 

Listen, you choose to put words into my mouth, that's your problem, but I will tell you that they can do better and for me I need them to do better. I don't expect them to listen to me, but if at some point I've had enough of waiting for them, they can't say I never warned them either.

 

I think it's bad resource management to invest the bare minimum into the future of the game. That's all. Companies like to keep it at a bare minimum because it maximises profit. If you think that they don't have enough profit margin to pay for some extra devs, then they got you where they want. I think that currently they are below par. I am asking them to bring it up to par, not to go above and beyond. I know that would be unrealistic.

[Aries_cz]

So where did you get this 6 months number or did you pull that number out of your ***? Honestly, I do know it takes time but I also know that if they put more resources in development (as in hiring some more people) they can do more. Surely with the millions they made last year they could choose to invest a bit more into content development?

 

Not sure about the final boss, but Nightmare Dread Guards (Ciphas, Hiierda, Kelsara) were PITA for even the best raiders in game for about a month I believe, which is much longer than most bosses last in any newer game.

 

And sadly, BioWare cannot put more money into it unless EA gives them more money. Because all money EA games make go into one big pot, and from that pot, it is redistributed to all the games that are in development or new content is built for.

Not to mention, hiring a good programmer, getting him up to speed on existing codebase, etc is not an easy or fast thing. And there is a limit on the number of programmers you can have before they start getting in each others way.

[Tsillah]

Not sure about the final boss, but Nightmare Dread Guards (Ciphas, Hiierda, Kelsara) were PITA for even the best raiders in game for about a month I believe, which is much longer than most bosses last in any newer game.

 

And sadly, BioWare cannot put more money into it unless EA gives them more money. Because all money EA games make go into one big pot, and from that pot, it is redistributed to all the games that are in development or new content is built for.

Not to mention, hiring a good programmer, getting him up to speed on existing codebase, etc is not an easy or fast thing. And there is a limit on the number of programmers you can have before they start getting in each others way.

 

Point is, none of us know. And you are right about the problem, but EA will not give any more budget to the SWTOR team unless there is enough customer feedback.

 

What I worry is that over time EA will just let go of SWTOR and let it get smaller and smaller, adjusting their budgets down as time progresses and income goes down for the game. I would want them to invest a bit more to facilitate a continued healthy game and game population. It would just be a shame if they let this game shrink too small when next year a new SW movie comes out that could be used as a boost for the game. Aside from the necessary breaks from the game, I have spent a lot of time in this game, but I had just taken a break from jan-april and after being away for that length of time and being bored so soon after is just disappointing.

[hadoken]

Point is, none of us know. And you are right about the problem, but EA will not give any more budget to the SWTOR team unless there is enough customer feedback.

 

What I worry is that over time EA will just let go of SWTOR and let it get smaller and smaller, adjusting their budgets down as time progresses and income goes down for the game. I would want them to invest a bit more to facilitate a continued healthy game and game population. It would just be a shame if they let this game shrink too small when next year a new SW movie comes out that could be used as a boost for the game. Aside from the necessary breaks from the game, I have spent a lot of time in this game, but I had just taken a break from jan-april and after being away for that length of time and being bored so soon after is just disappointing.

 

The problem is in the court of public opinion (outside this forum) the game has "failed" so EA will not dump significant money into it in order to make it better. They've been on maintenance mode for quite some time, really. Yea they do add new content, the vast majority is to the CM (where the vast majority of their profit comes from).

 

They aren't going to take a big risk and boost the development team to put more non CM content into the game. There's little chance they'll actually make money doing that, considering the trends.

[Tsillah]

The problem is in the court of public opinion (outside this forum) the game has "failed" so EA will not dump significant money into it in order to make it better. They've been on maintenance mode for quite some time, really. Yea they do add new content, the vast majority is to the CM (where the vast majority of their profit comes from).

 

They aren't going to take a big risk and boost the development team to put more non CM content into the game. There's little chance they'll actually make money doing that, considering the trends.

 

To me it's not black or white however. I am not asking them to take big risks, just to invest a bit more. I don't get why people keep thinking in all or nothing approaches. If they currently spend 50 million and bring in 165 million then I am not asking them to spend 150 million. I am asking them to invest 60-70 million, because they can and it will be for the benefit of this game and longevity. It could be true though that EA are not interested in that and just wanna milk it till it's dead. That's what it starts looking like now.

 

Thing is, I don't just wanna quit and leave without giving them a chance to do something about it. They may not care about just me, in fact I don't expect they do. But at the same time I do want them to at least think about this. I love SW and this game has been great in many ways, so I don't just want to give it up without saying a word. Maybe they are doing something in the background maybe it's maintenance mode till it dies. If that's the case though I guess it explains why I am losing interest in continuing to invest into it. My personal choice, I know. But I think there is room for discussion. I don't share this idea that if you have criticism that you must shut up and quit. Nothing gets better if there isn't criticism. The extremes people accuse me of are their own false interpretations. I am not expecting miracles, just a few notches better than it is now. This Stronghold expansion has been too long in the making, not because it got delayed, but because I feel the original planned release was already 2 months too late but as I said, that's my view and I can't say whether they care about how I feel about this, but at least they know.

[hadoken]

I'm looking forward to what 3.0 is about. That's going to confirm or change my opinion on what's going on with this game.

[Jandi]

This is not the problem. I may not know exactly but I do know it takes work to bring things into the game. That's a resource issue and my point has always been that they should have a bigger dev team. Also you don't know what it takes so you can't make any counterclaims either. So you're being ridiculous yourself for two reasons.

 

No, it's not a resource issue. You could throw a billion devs at it and make very little difference. Only thing resources do is enable you to do multiple project, not make them go faster after a certain point. You obviously understand less than nothing about making games. If you actually cared, at all (instead of just crying like a child) you would take the time to read interviews and articles about MMO development written by ACTUAL MMO devs.

 

1) You assume I think it's easy to add content, which I never said

2) You make claims about how long it takes to add content without knowing yourself how long it takes.

 

Since you get disappointed when stuff doesn't come out fast enough for you, it stands to reason that you do indeed think it's easy. The fact that you think throwing people at it helps makes it blatantly obvious that you don't have even the inkling of an idea about what is involved.

 

Figuring ballpark estimates is easy if you have a brain. WoW has had every resource they could possibly want for years. Are they pumping **** out on a schedule you would deem "acceptable"? NO. Do you honestly think they are intentionally holding things back? Seriously? Here is a fun fact, they have been working on the next expansion AFTER WoD for over a year now. Think about that for a moment.

 

Was there a point here?

 

Yes, and you obviously missed it.

 

] you do spend a lot of time explaining something to me that I already know.

 

You obviously don't, or we wouldn't have this conversation.

 

So where did you get this 6 months number or did you pull that number out of your ***? Honestly, I do know it takes time but I also know that if they put more resources in development (as in hiring some more people) they can do more. Surely with the millions they made last year they could choose to invest a bit more into content development?

 

See above. You could hire every single developer in the world and accomplish very litte. You understand nothing about this topic.

 

Listen, you choose to put words into my mouth,

 

Not once did I do that. Stop making **** up right now or I'll just put you on ignore.

 

I think it's bad resource management to invest the bare minimum into the future of the game. That's all. Companies like to keep it at a bare minimum because it maximises profit. If you think that they don't have enough profit margin to pay for some extra devs, then they got you where they want. I think that currently they are below par. I am asking them to bring it up to par, not to go above and beyond. I know that would be unrealistic.

 

http://www.gamedev.net/blog/355/entry-2250155-why-you-shouldnt-be-making-an-mmo/

 

Here, I'll even do your *********** work for you. READ IT.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Jandi

[Tsillah]

No, it's not a resource issue. You could throw a billion devs at it and make very little difference. Only thing resources do is enable you to do multiple project, not make them go faster after a certain point. You obviously understand less than nothing about making games. If you actually cared, at all (instead of just crying like a child) you would take the time to read interviews and articles about MMO development written by ACTUAL MMO devs.

 

More assumptions on your part. I know there's a limit to how many people can work on a given project before it becomes pointless. However, I don't think that's a limit they have reached. You seem to think you know they've reached that limit, I don't think you actually know that. Also by having more people you can work on MULTIPLE projects at the same time, thereby bringing out more different things at the same time. Amazing concept, I know.

 

Since you get disappointed when stuff doesn't come out fast enough for you, it stands to reason that you do indeed think it's easy. The fact that you think throwing people at it helps makes it blatantly obvious that you don't have even the inkling of an idea about what is involved.

 

That doesn't stand to reason. That's what you want to believe. And thanks for the exaggerations like "throwing people at it" and "blatantly obvious". Try not to mix what I said with what you want me to've said.

 

Figuring ballpark estimates is easy if you have a brain. WoW has had every resource they could possibly want for years. Are they pumping **** out on a schedule you would deem "acceptable"? NO. Do you honestly think they are intentionally holding things back? Seriously? Here is a fun fact, they have been working on the next expansion AFTER WoD for over a year now. Think about that for a moment.

 

I don't think your ball park figures are based on anything but your gut feeling, again because it's what you want to believe. I've seen other companies bring out more content than this game. According to your reasoning that would be impossible, which clearly it isn't.

 

For me their schedule is too slow. I don't think they do it on purpose...again that's you making non sequiturs. Honestly, try to stick what I actually say instead of making up things. Of course the people who control the budget DO purposefully hold back on spending, the SWTOR team is not making those decisions...but then I never said they did, now did I?

 

Yes, and you obviously missed it.

 

I clearly missed it. Probably, because it's about something I didn't actually say. Again.

 

You obviously don't, or we wouldn't have this conversation.

 

Actually the only reason we are having a conversation is because you seem to need to misrepresent what I say by putting words into my mouth.

 

See above. You could hire every single developer in the world and accomplish very litte. You understand nothing about this topic.

 

Thanks for the blatant ad hominem. You insist on my knowing nothing purely based on your wish that I don't understand it. I do understand it but you cleary don't understand what I am saying, again, probably because you don't want to.

 

Not once did I do that. Stop making **** up right now or I'll just put you on ignore.

 

I gave various examples of how you make up things. For example (again), I never said it was easy to develop content. Normally I am the one explaining that to people who think stuff is so easy. But this is simply because you are thinking in black and white terms. That's the only thing going on here. EA/BW can do better if they want to. It's not impossible as you seem to suggest. I am not asking for miracles.

 

Of course you want to put me on ignore, because you want to be right and want me to surrender and proclaim I was wrong and you are right. Not gonna happen. So ignore me if you will, doesn't change my life.

 

 

http://www.gamedev.net/blog/355/entry-2250155-why-you-shouldnt-be-making-an-mmo/

 

Here, I'll even do your *********** work for you. READ IT.

 

No need, you simply want to believe I don't get it but I do. I just simply don't accept that there is no room for improvement. That's just an idiotic stance to take. Of course they can do better. That doesn't mean that I think it's easy or cheap, but then with 165 million revenue something should be possible but we all know EA likes to keep the budgets small, that's a business choice, nothing else. I am asking them to revisit that choice, not that I think they'll listen.

[Kantaso]

Man I just started to get my feet wet with the Imperial side after doing 4 Reps and wow momma!!!! this is fun.

[Tsillah]

Man I just started to get my feet wet with the Imperial side after doing 4 Reps and wow momma!!!! this is fun.

 

Don't get me wrong. SWTOR is a great game and I had lots of fun with it so far.

 

I am just disappointed about the current speed of release of content and got myself suckered in a discussion that got way out of control. So let me apologise for that and keep enjoying the game

[Jandi]

No need, .

 

Lol you accuse me of pulling things out of my *** and then refuse to even look at what I point out to. How typical. Another dummy to the ignore list.

[Sarfux]

I am glad for SWTOR. The game will just keep growing and getting bigger as the new content comes in. It's a great game a deserves this spot. Great job developer team and I'm glad that you are making this game grow more and more. The game is doing great guys, as I said before and I hope this finally shows you proof of it. It will continue doing good and we will have keep getting so many things to do

[Tsillah]

Lol you accuse me of pulling things out of my *** and then refuse to even look at what I point out to. How typical. Another dummy to the ignore list.

 

I knew you'd bite.

 

This is my last reply to you on this matter, just to prove that you interpret instead of reading what it says.

 

I told you there was no need for me to read it. You therefore concluded that I didn't read it, but guess what...I did read it.

 

It's a nice blog from a GW2 dev and not BW so that already indicates you don't actually know how much time it takes BW to develop something. Thank you for proving my point there btw. Also the article doesn't contradict anything I've said interestingly enough and only confirms what I've been saying all along. Also GW2 is a completely different type of game but the general idea is there, but nothing specific. So excuse me for not accepting your interpretation of someone else's explanation as hard facts. I must be a dummy indeed to not recognise your authority in this.

 

But thank you for proving my point that you read what you want instead of what it says.

[Tsillah]

I am glad for SWTOR. The game will just keep growing and getting bigger as the new content comes in. It's a great game a deserves this spot. Great job developer team and I'm glad that you are making this game grow more and more. The game is doing great guys, as I said before and I hope this finally shows you proof of it. It will continue doing good and we will have keep getting so many things to do

 

I hope so too, but apparently I am an idiot far wanting it to grow just a little faster. Oh well.

[Aries_cz]

I hope so too, but apparently I am an idiot far wanting it to grow just a little faster. Oh well.

 

Oh you are not an idiot. We all want to see this game grow faster, but apparently EA does not see that and they don't care. Or they do care (because it could mean more money for them in long run), but new (skilled) people are hard to come by.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Aries_cz

[TUXs]

...but new (skilled) people are hard to come by.

Yeah, it's too bad they, Bioware, a division of Electronic Arts, which has been producing video games since 1982, have no idea where they could possibly look for "skilled" developers...maybe over time they'll build up their "skilled" contacts list, but right now, in this booming economy, I'm sure all the skilled people are busy on the next blockbuster game.

[TUXs]

I hope so too, but apparently I am an idiot far wanting it to grow just a little faster. Oh well.

Agreed! (not that you're an idiot, I mean on your desire)

[Aries_cz]

Yeah, it's too bad they, Bioware, a division of Electronic Arts, which has been producing video games since 1982, have no idea where they could possibly look for "skilled" developers...maybe over time they'll build up their "skilled" contacts list, but right now, in this booming economy, I'm sure all the skilled people are busy on the next blockbuster game.

 

Not saying they have no idea where to look, but that there may not be that many people fulfilling the requirements, or something...

[Anaesha]

Not saying they have no idea where to look, but that there may not be that many people fulfilling the requirements, or something...

 

It's a well known fact that getting work within the Game development industry is EXTREMELY hard especially if you're fresh out of collage and haven't been able to get real world experience in the field.

 

There could be dozens of talented people out there but because as you said they don't fit one requirement they are over looked.

 

P.s. Now a days just having the Degrees means nothing without the real world experience to back it up sadly.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Anaesha

[hadoken]

Yeah, it's too bad they, Bioware, a division of Electronic Arts, which has been producing video games since 1982, have no idea where they could possibly look for "skilled" developers...maybe over time they'll build up their "skilled" contacts list, but right now, in this booming economy, I'm sure all the skilled people are busy on the next blockbuster game.

 

Yea I like the implication that they're having a hard time finding people.

 

The answer is they have to look first.

[Aries_cz]

The answer is they have to look first.

 

What makes you think they are not looking? http://careersearch.ea.com/austin