Whats the problem with legacy storage having BoP items (not relics implants and ear)

[vailingfob]

Could someone please tell me the problem with having BoE items in the legacy storage ie (head, chest, hands, belt, bracers, legs, feet,main hand and offhand). It just seems like it would be a convenience feature rather then an advantage. Why should we have to use legacy gear we don't like the look of? For example i could put all my sentinels gear in Gree legacy gear i don't like and use it on my marauder. So i don't see the big deal of being able to have gear i like be used on more then 1 character.

 

 

Ok so what i really wanted to talk about in this thread is the transfer of items which you can all ready transfer with bad looking legacy gear (that's just my opinion on most legacy sets) ie (head, chest, hands, belt, bracers, legs, feet,main hand and offhand) so not mounts ect. So i will edit it to say what i mean. Also i don't get how it makes people more inclined to ninja when they already get 4 free legacy sets in the mail on each character. As someone has already said you could have them let you transfer gear once you unlock it through collections they wont lose anything. For the people talking about class missions, unque items (class or faction specific) and nim and pvp mounts ect they should make these things not be able to be transferred. Btw i only said BoP because Bioware said it and it was late ^^

 

 

Edited July 18, 2014 by vailingfob

[BuriDogshin]

Could someone please tell me the problem with having BoP items in the legacy storage(

 

That's easy. You cannot put them in LS because your characters never have any BoP gear. "BoP" (Bind on Pickup) is an attribute that only exists on un-owned items that no one has picked up yet. Those items become "Bound" as soon as a toon takes possession of it, and is at that point indistinguishable from any other "Bound" item.

 

So let's be clear: there are only five binding-kinds of items players can possess:

 

1. Never bound items (like mats and reusable stims),
   
2. Bound-to-Legacy (BoL) items,
   
3. Bind-on-Equip (BoE) items that have never been equipped,
   
4. Bound-to-Op-Group Items (which become Bound after two hours), and
   
5. Bound Items,
   

 

So if the question is "Can I put BoP in Legacy Storage?," the answer to that is "No, that is impossible by definition."

So what items are you really asking to be able to put there?

Edited July 17, 2014 by BuriDogshin

[thewitchdoctor]

He is referring to the Dev post today that BoP items, at least at launch in 2.9, cannot be placed in LS.

 

I am sure Eric meant 'formerly BoP and now bound' items, but the post did say BoP. So, that is what it is there.

 

The post: BoP Items in LS.

Edited July 17, 2014 by thewitchdoctor

[thewitchdoctor]

Could someone please tell me the problem with having BoP items in the legacy storage (not relics implants and ear).

It just seems like it would be a convenience feature rather then an advantage. Why should we have to use legacy gear we don't like the look of? For example i could put all my sentinels gear in Gree legacy gear i don't like and use it on my marauder. So i don't see the big deal of being able to have gear i like be used on more then 1 character.

 

I would imagine it is coding.

 

I bet your Arkanian Supercommando Implant has the same exact 'bound' code that your cool-looking level 32 green unmodded chestpiece has. So the issue is how do you distinguish a non-relic, implant or earpiece from any other bound item. And I bet it is overcoming THAT which is what is on their discussion table and not whether it is too advantageous for players or not.

[Nickious]

I would imagine it is coding.

 

I bet your Arkanian Supercommando Implant has the same exact 'bound' code that your cool-looking level 32 green unmodded chestpiece has. So the issue is how do you distinguish a non-relic, implant or earpiece from any other bound item. And I bet it is overcoming THAT which is what is on their discussion table and not whether it is too advantageous for players or not.

 

I don't really think they care if the player has an advantage in game or not via BoP retrieval of items because Eric said they were still evaluating the possibility of doing so.

 

The main issue is the game probably can't distinguish a bound CM item from a bound non CM item. Bioware sures as hell wouldn't want to lose money on collections by a person making a copy of an armor, stuffing it in the LS, and ignoring the collection cost to get it for every character.

 

I'm sure they don't like the fact CM crystals can have their collection cost negated by legacy weapons as is.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Nickious

[errant_knight]

He is referring to the Dev post today that BoP items, at least at launch in 2.9, cannot be placed in LS.

 

I am sure Eric meant 'formerly BoP and now bound' items, but the post did say BoP. So, that is what it is there.

 

The post: BoP Items in LS.

 

I'd hoped for this, but I didn't actually expect it. It would have meant that new characters could get all their gear from old ones.

[Kirazy]

I'd hoped for this, but I didn't actually expect it. It would have meant that new characters could get all their gear from old ones.

 

This is what people seem to miss: that already happens.

 

I had hoped they would permit non-BOL items to be shared in the Stronghold storage, so that I could customize the appearance of my characters with greater freedom. Presently I have a truly obscene number of legacy sets (considering I can generate 4 every time I make a character... for free) and use them at all levels of play to move gear around and allow me to make alts over and over without having to build out new sets of gear every single time.

 

But it restricts me only to those sets that are bound to legacy. The options, visually, for sets that I find appealing are few where BOL sets are concerned. And even then only parts of some sets I find attractive. I would LIKE the ability to move gear between characters that looks the way I want it to; only that involves non-BOL gear.

[BuriDogshin]

I don't really think they care if the player has an advantage in game or not via BoP retrieval of items because Eric said they were still evaluating the possibility of doing so.

I think they said they were evaluating it to cover their bases in case they change their minds, but won't.

There is a reason top-tier PvE gear (186 at present) has AFAIK never been craftable or tradeable.

[vailingfob]

That's easy. You cannot put them in LS because your characters never have any BoP gear. "BoP" (Bind on Pickup) is an attribute that only exists on un-owned items that no one has picked up yet. Those items become "Bound" as soon as a toon takes possession of it, and is at that point indistinguishable from any other "Bound" item.

 

So let's be clear: there are only five binding-kinds of items players can possess:

 

1. Never bound items (like mats and reusable stims),
   
2. Bound-to-Legacy (BoL) items,
   
3. Bind-on-Equip (BoE) items that have never been equipped,
   
4. Bound-to-Op-Group Items (which become Bound after two hours), and
   
5. Bound Items,
   

 

So if the question is "Can I put BoP in Legacy Storage?," the answer to that is "No, that is impossible by definition."

So what items are you really asking to be able to put there?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZrzg62Zj0

[Rafaman]

A splinter thread to the main thread already... yeah this one hit a nerve.

 

Lets just call them bound items shall we? That will avoid the confusion.

 

Is it really hard to get relics, implants or whatever in this game? No. Is it inconvenient to earn these pieces of gear? Well... if you want to earn them, no.

 

We don't need legacy storage to add another easy button.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Rafaman

[Jerba]

I don't think it is so much a technical limitation; instead they just don't want to negatively impact the game economy by it. I find it really strange why you want to place BoP items in your legacy bank in the first place. After all, the main reason why items are BoP is because they are specific to one character and not intended to be mailed. Otherwise, the devs would have made them BoL in the first place. There are numerous items that are intentionall BoP and should not be able to be mailed:

• Character-specific rewards, like the Ranked PvP Rancor, weapons/armor from class quests, free XP boosts. Also, non-repeatable quest rewards where you have to choose one of multiple items would be seriously messed up. Think of the customizations for your first companion when you leave the starter planet for example.
  
• Faction-specific items, like the Imperial/Republic social mark, social armor specific to a faction and the old Korrealis speeders
  
• Cartel-market items: Those should stay at the character who bound them, since it would seriously mess up the Collections system if we could mail them.
  

So far, I haven't really heard any justified reasons why we should be able to mail BoP items. Sure, people want to transfer mods without having to pay the mod-swapping cost (which is there for a reason btw), and they want to be able to mail earpieces/implants/relics. (BTW, all endgame mods are technically BoE and not BoP, so you could not send them dirctly via a BoP Legacy Bank anyway)

Sure, I can understand those reasons, and I think those won't impact the game economy too much. (As long as you can only send mods, and not armor shells, since those also show that a character has run a specific content.) However, these two use cases IMO do not make up for all the trouble caused by allowing BoP items to be sent, so I don't mind if I will only be able to send unbound and BoL items via the Legacy Bank.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Jerba

[TheBBP]

I am torn on BoP items being able to be transferred via legacy storage. On one hand, it would be cool. I have some stuff that could use spreading around. On the other hand, do we really need to give more fuel to ninja looters to need on everything that drops?

[Kirazy]

I don't think it is so much a technical limitation; instead they just don't want to negatively impact the game economy by it. I find it really strange why you want to place BoP items in your legacy bank in the first place. After all, the main reason why items are BoP is because they are specific to one character and not intended to be mailed. Otherwise, the devs would have made them BoL in the first place.

 

Except BOL did not exist at launch and BOP/BOE were the only binding types for several major patch numbers.

[Kirazy]

I am torn on BoP items being able to be transferred via legacy storage. On one hand, it would be cool. I have some stuff that could use spreading around. On the other hand, do we really need to give more fuel to ninja looters to need on everything that drops?

 

Ninjalootingisnotpossibleinthisgame,ohmy****inggod. You have dice rolls! You have loot that is only lootable by those involved in the mob kills! If I am running content, and I need a particular piece of gear (I determine whether I need it or not, thank you very much, you do not play my game for me) I will need it. I worked just as hard for that gear as they did. Perhaps even harder, since most of the people you hate who roll need for alts are better geared, and more skilled at their character. If someone else needs it, they can roll need to. I don't care if they "need it more". That's a subjective qualification.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Kirazy

[Khevar]

I don't care if they "need it more". That's a subjective qualification.

I am not the least bit surprised to see you clamoring for the removal of BoP restrictions, while ALSO having a rather selfish view of loot rules in this game.

[Kirazy]

I am not the least bit surprised to see you clamoring for the removal of BoP restrictions, while ALSO having a rather selfish view of loot rules in this game.

 

I pass on 99% of the drops in a raid, thank you kindly. Just because I defend a particular view of need/greed that permits people to need for characters they aren't playing that very second doesn't mean I need on every single piece of gear that drops. I run operations far more often than I get a character to 55 and need to gear it, thanks.

 

As it happens, I used to hold your position in regards to need/greed, that you should need for the character you're playing. That changed, when it was argued that the player who needed, though not technically needing the gear themselves for that character, never the less contributed to the operations group, and in fact played a pivotal role in our completing the objectives.

 

Your position removes any incentive for a player to run an operation with an already optimized character. Which players help most PUG operations succeed.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Kirazy

[Manweth]

Certain gear MUST NOT BE TRADED BETWEEN CHARACTERS.

 

Such as my hardly won Dread Masters Mask from Hateful entity.

 

Or NiM drop mounts. And we can already cheese the system for real gear aside from relics,, implants and earpieces. And you can at least grind for those.

 

 

srsly, There are not that many BoP items left in the game aside from token gear.

[Banegio]

This is what people seem to miss: that already happens.

 

I had hoped they would permit non-BOL items to be shared in the Stronghold storage, so that I could customize the appearance of my characters with greater freedom. Presently I have a truly obscene number of legacy sets (considering I can generate 4 every time I make a character... for free) and use them at all levels of play to move gear around and allow me to make alts over and over without having to build out new sets of gear every single time.

 

But it restricts me only to those sets that are bound to legacy. The options, visually, for sets that I find appealing are few where BOL sets are concerned. And even then only parts of some sets I find attractive. I would LIKE the ability to move gear between characters that looks the way I want it to; only that involves non-BOL gear.

 

"that already happens" with a price.

 

Letting LS to be used like BOL shell without the cost of mod extraction will massively devalue BOL items (may even totally render them redundant). Or over pricing LS to maintain the current economy. Or introduce more gambling credit sink...

[Kirazy]

Certain gear MUST NOT BE TRADED BETWEEN CHARACTERS.

 

Such as my hardly won Dread Masters Mask from Hateful entity.

 

Or NiM drop mounts. And we can already cheese the system for real gear aside from relics,, implants and earpieces. And you can at least grind for those.

 

 

srsly, There are not that many BoP items left in the game aside from token gear.

 

Generally speaking, I'm only interested in the ability to move non-BOL shells between characters. Let us examine Bioware's history of gear shells to date:

 

In the beginning:

- Gear shells were locked to class for certain appearance types.

- Gear shells were locked to armor rating, heavy medium and light armor.

- Gear shells were locked to your character.

- Very few shells were customizable.

 

Then came:

- Adaptive armor, eliminating the need to be concerned about whether gear was for your type.

- Cartel Market gear releases that were adaptive, usable on any class, and essentially identical to the class restricted gear.

- Imperial gear wearable by Republic players, and vice versa thanks to Cartel Market releases.

- Bound on Legacy, which allowed shells to be moved, to include their contents, between characters.

 

What does this mean? They have progressively removed restrictions from gear enabling greater and greater control over character customization and appearance. They may as well go the last step and make CM gear BOL, but they won't because they monetized account-wide unlocks.

 

I don't care about moving Relics, implants, earpieces and other one-off items. I want shells to move.

[Kirazy]

"that already happens" with a price.

 

Letting LS to be used like BOL shell without the cost of mod extraction will massively devalue BOL items (may even totally render them redundant). Or over pricing LS to maintain the current economy. Or introduce more gambling credit sink...

 

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT BOL ITEMS ARE ALREADY DEVAULED AS ****? How do you not understand this? Every single new character I make I receive FOUR ENTIRE LEGACY SETS. I can mail those to another character, delete the character I got them on, make a new one, and repeat the process!

 

I have actually done this because I adore the Imperial Battle Ace (parts of it, anyways) so intensely much that I stick it on Companions as well.

 

The only novel BOL items left are the Mainhand/Offhand, and Gree comes up often enough that before long you'll have multiple sets of each. I'm close, personally.

 

And, history lesson time: BOL sets, when originally implemented were class-restricted and cost more than 1m credits.

 

Then came the Gree legacy sets which were about 1/10th the cost and universal.

 

Then came the Starfighter rewards, which are free and infinite.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Kirazy

[chillshock]

So:

 

BoP items (items that have been bound when aquired) cannot be placed in LS. Ok. Like Raid-Loot. Fine, I can relate that these should remain with the character who acquired it. (otherwise you'd end up having "omni-need" on all items in fps and ops: "for my alt!")

 

How about bound BoE like Cartelmarket stuff or crafted items?

 

Unbound items, I'd be severly lacking stuff if they didn't go in there.

[Kirazy]

otherwise you'd end up having "omni-need" on all items in fps and ops: "for my alt!")

 

This is already the state of the game. Allowing most bound items into the LS would not change much in that regard.

[slafko]

Is it really hard to get relics, implants or whatever in this game? No.

No?

 

These are the requirements:

 

1) Kill boss with an ops group.

2) Pray the boss drops the token you need.

3) If he does, pray you win a roll against 7 or 15 other players.

4) If you do, pray that ops leader doesn't have a change of heart and awards it to his guildie.

5) Get locked out from the operation for a week.

6) Repeat.

 

 

You're right. Easy by design.

[thewitchdoctor]

You're right. Easy by design.

 

Well, that's if you only do it via ops. But unless you MUST have 186 relic, implant, and earpiece, you can also have them crafted. And at least on Shadowlands, the prices for MMGs are dropping hard. (Under 450k last I looked).

 

So, I think you are both 'right' here. Perhaps it ... depends on a certain point of view! (Cross off the Make an Obi-Wann reference Weekly!)

[TheBBP]

Ninjalootingisnotpossibleinthisgame,ohmy****inggod. You have dice rolls! You have loot that is only lootable by those involved in the mob kills! If I am running content, and I need a particular piece of gear (I determine whether I need it or not, thank you very much, you do not play my game for me) I will need it. I worked just as hard for that gear as they did. Perhaps even harder, since most of the people you hate who roll need for alts are better geared, and more skilled at their character. If someone else needs it, they can roll need to. I don't care if they "need it more". That's a subjective qualification.

 

You just reinforced why the ability to transfer BoP gear is a bad idea. Thank you sir.