Sniper Specs in PvP

[Xuthal]

Hi there,

 

I have been trying to find the right information, however I always only found specific information about one of the 3 talent trees, never in comparison to one another.

So here is my question: In PvP, what is the benefit of going either way in the talent trees for a sniper? Marksman, Engineering and Lethality?

 

Right now I am lvl37 and I am using a full Lethality build and in warzones I usually come up first in damage, at least if I try. Sometimes only second, but then I probably had to defend some place not fighting a lot etc...

Still I'm asking myself what the other 2 trees would be useful for? Does Marksmanship give so much burst DPS that bursting anything down is gonna be much easier? Or does Engineering somehow provide other means to deal as much damage as lethality? Do either Marksmanship or Engineering provide better survivability?

Don't get me wrong, I tried looking into these things myself, but maybe I'm just missing something because I never really saw any arguments that would make me want to try the other builds.

Or are there even viable hybrid specs that make for an interesting mixed playstyle?

 

Also, as I am only lvl 37 right now, does the way the sniper plays right now change on lvl55 pvp?

[Hronych]

Pretty much all sniper spec are viable for PvP damagewise, even hybrid. What you really should care about is your survivability.

MM gives you better defenses and controls (Diversion, Knockback Ambush, lower cooldown on Entrench, roll-Entrench), also it provides higher maneuverability (Seek Cover) and deals decent burst.

Engi have nice burst, additional matter of control (Plasma Probe with pre-Interrogation Probe), good energy control, good maneuvers (double roll, double entrench, double adre/shield probes). Also u can catch some noob with insane rollbang burst.

Lethality is all about high sustained dmg and it has pretty poor survivability, as do hybrid.

[BaineOs]

When it comes to sniper pvp and the three specs, don't focus on just the damage but what else you can do with the class apart. Damage is not and never has been the full picture of the class, don't get me wrong I'm not saying to ignore damage completely but don't loose track of what your skills can do and how else can they be utilised..

 

In terms of pure survivability then Engineering is the standout winner for me, marksman snipers might disagree but then they're two very different specs.

 

In terms of how you play the class compared to lvl 55, yes there are a lot of differences. That's mainly due to the fact the sniper does extremely well in lowbie pvp. All classes do really in the right hands but it's more true for snipers. We get all the core skills at a very low level where the other classes will tend to bloom a lot later. This means that you'll be up against players without all the skills they would normally use to counter what you're doing.

 

Coupled together with a lot of players in lowbie are still learning the class and even more still learning how to play the warzones it means the change to level 55 pvp can be a bit depressing. Just remember you're still learning the class, don't go head first into situations you'd normally be able to survive in lowbie and gear up (with pvp gear), the rest will come.

[Xuthal]

Thank you for this very informative post of yours!

Of course it's not all about damage and of course I'm using my skills for utility as well. But I think Lethality does add quite some nice utility to the mix as well.

If I dot each and everybody stealther's will break out of stealth after cloaking due to the damage continuing to tick.

Also, corrosive grenade slows everybody by 30% of their movement speed permanently.

Perhaps dotting many people and having them all take damage continously somehow helps occupying the healers in a way they usually wouldn't (focusing on only one target that is being focused in a fight usually...).

 

Can you somehow describe how Marksmanship or Engineering help to do such things? What utility do they offer for pvp? I guess the plasma probe will help in situations where the enemy team needs to be blocked away from some place such as the hutt ball or tapping points etc.- what else is there?

 

And finally- I am reading that engineering might offer the highest dps output of all the specs. However you would need to use covered escape in a way that your target is hit by all 5 cluster bombs that are dropped due to the talent "Scatter Bombs". Is that even possible in pvp?? And if not, is damage output still decent? Or does this even add to the survivability of an engineering sniper because, if he's attacked he simply rolls away and if the melee opponent follows he'll have to run through the cluster bombs etc? Does the cluster bomb mechanic of engineering make engineering tougher to play in actual pvp than the other builds?

Edited July 17, 2014 by Xuthal

[chosonman]

I agree with my fellow snipers when they say Survivability. I think it is the most overlooked aspect of playing sniper. All 3 trees have great potential for damage, but which one it going to give you the best chance to live long enough to use their skill sets effectively?

[Jekan]

I'm going to chime in. I've switched from Lethality to Engineer in PvP and here's what I've noticed:

 

1) Actively defending (i.e. not being a guard, but actually being where the action is to defend a contested node), this spec is beast mode. I go far enough up marksman to get precision ambush and heavy shot. I now have debilitate, flashbang, IP + PP and heavy shot for CC. I also have ballistic dampers. I can do two shield probes back to back with EMP pulse. I held mid in civil war this morning 3v1 for 18 seconds, long enough for more reinforcements to arrive.

 

2) Damage output is decent. It's about 2/3 of what I can do with lethality. Best Engineering damage so far is about 700K and best for lethality was around 900K. Granted, to get super high numbers you need healers keeping you alive, no matter the spec.

 

3) Finishing off players: If by some chance after EP+CB+SoS+Wallbang your target is still alive, calculated pursuit with 4 free overload shots is usually enough to finish them off. I also find the insta snipe after cover pulse useful. LT+TA+CP+S+EP+SoS = usually dead or fleeing.

 

4) Energy management is no issue in lethality or engineering

 

It's a different play style than I'm used to, and I'm still getting the fine nuances down, but I'm finding it a blast to play in warzones.

[Mandor]

I've been playing my sniper extensively in PvP lately, mainly due to the lack of PvE content and the summer "low activity" period. I tend to change my build quite often trying to find the answer to the question the op asks.

 

The benefit from playing each spec can be divided into 3 sub-questions

1. What's my survivability against melee.

2. What's my survivability against ranged.

3. What's the overall utility I bring to the team.

The damage itself is not an issue for any sniper spec as the people mentioned in previous posts.

 

1) Lethality

Lethality has probably the biggest problems when defending against melee. I've found out that when I'm playing lethality, I run around chasing healers etc... and that leaves me vulnerable to jumps from warriors/knights. So the lethality snipers have to cope with that in addition to the usual stealth classes.

Lethality has the "disadvantage" of dots ticking on your enemy all the time. When defending from a melee class that means that the roots from cover pulse and leg shot are 2s. The slow from corrosive grenade is only 6s and the corrosive mine you leave when you roll is just good for another 2s while they get out of its radius.

Against ranged, lethality is probably the best of all 3 sniper specs. The fact that you only have to stay in one place for EP+SoS and that you can cleanse all dots with evasion gives you an edge against everyone, including all other sniper specs.

The utility from lethality spec is the offensive power of the corrosive grenade and the pressure your dots put on the healers (except operatives) and tanks. Shatter shot + dots + cull just annihilates enemy tanks.

 

2) Marksmanship

Against melee it's the second best spec. The additional slow to leg shot you can get from the debilitating shot talent, the knockback on ambush and the additional distance to cover pulse, plus the prolonged time of entrench mean that you can just sit in cover and dish out damage to your attacker while keeping him under control. When the attackers are more than one, it's another story

Against ranged you're pretty much a sitting duck. Mercs and sorcs can damage you as much as they want, then hide to heal themselves. If you have any combination of ranged enemies that includes a marksmanship sniper with diversion off cooldown you're pretty much gone in 3 seconds.

The real offensive benefit of the marksmanship snipers is the damage they do to operative healers and the ability to quickly change targets when your current one vanishes/hides etc. I usually respec to Marksmanship when I see that many operative healers are queuing at the time.

 

3. Engineering

Against melee the engineers are the best spec. Anyone that comes within 4m of you will suffer greatly.

Against ranged it's the complete opposite. Your plasma probe is easily avoided, your scatter bombs don't work at range and you have to rely on some clunky mechanic that requires you to use Quickshot to try and finish an opponent. Quickshot usage has always bothered me the most when playing engineer. Why on earth am I forced to use a skill that no other sniper spec uses in any form. Both Marksmanship and Lethality snipers will shred you to pieces as you don't have any means to counter Diversion or dot+LOS.

The great advantage of the engineer is the node guarding and personal protection against melee. You'll be really good in Arenas, Novare coast and Voidstar, have some limited usability in Ancient Hypergate and Alderaan(guarding) and completely useless in any form of Huttball.

When I play sniper in any spec, as soon as I see a plasma probe, I start hunting for the engineer. It's so easy to kill them at range and brings so much advantage to your team when they die that I don't think any excellence at node guarding can compensate the big mark you get when people see plasma probe in Voidstar

 

4) Hybrid (engineering/lethality)

Just a few words. It has insane burst, but your energy suffers so much when you can't finish channeling Cull or SoS that more often than not you'll be in a situation where you'll be starved for energy and forced to use rifle shot. It may only be a personal preference, but I prefer to use full lethality.

[Dartharding]

I also find different specs useful for different warzones. If the warzone is one were I am constantly moving around (like Hutball), I prefer a more mobile spec like Lethality (or Hybrid - lots of time to recharge while I am running around). With Marksman, I find I am left at ball spawn point trying to slow or defend the ball carrier - but then get left behind. In some of the other warzones, I can spec Marksman and usually plant myself in a good spot to hit most targets. As long as only one enemy (maybe 2) enemies notice me, I am usually pretty good with my CDs and roots.

 

Either way though, I find it a good idea and change locations everyone once and while. Anyone that stays still too long is bound to be noticed...especially since we are crouched. That only makes you a target...especially to Shadows/Assassins - I hate them (when entrench is not up).

 

I have not had great success in any spec in Arenas unless the enemy just doesn't realize they should kill the sniper first. I can usually survive a bit longer in Marksman...but that time is counted in a few seconds. Usually I like to make sure that my team knows they will target with me and they have about 5-10 seconds of free attacks on the enemy and they better make the most of them. Some folks swear by Engineering or lethality...but I find that even with the double CDs of Engineering and the kiting of Lethatity....I am still too squishy. I would like to hear other folks experience with the different specs in Arenas.

 

 

Corrvx - 55 Slinger / Cigfrain - 55 Sniper

[chosonman]

I also find different specs useful for different warzones. If the warzone is one were I am constantly moving around (like Hutball), I prefer a more mobile spec like Lethality (or Hybrid - lots of time to recharge while I am running around). With Marksman, I find I am left at ball spawn point trying to slow or defend the ball carrier - but then get left behind. In some of the other warzones, I can spec Marksman and usually plant myself in a good spot to hit most targets. As long as only one enemy (maybe 2) enemies notice me, I am usually pretty good with my CDs and roots.

 

Either way though, I find it a good idea and change locations everyone once and while. Anyone that stays still too long is bound to be noticed...especially since we are crouched. That only makes you a target...especially to Shadows/Assassins - I hate them (when entrench is not up).

 

I have not had great success in any spec in Arenas unless the enemy just doesn't realize they should kill the sniper first. I can usually survive a bit longer in Marksman...but that time is counted in a few seconds. Usually I like to make sure that my team knows they will target with me and they have about 5-10 seconds of free attacks on the enemy and they better make the most of them. Some folks swear by Engineering or lethality...but I find that even with the double CDs of Engineering and the kiting of Lethatity....I am still too squishy. I would like to hear other folks experience with the different specs in Arenas.

 

 

Corrvx - 55 Slinger / Cigfrain - 55 Sniper

 

I hear that a lot, I'm too squishy....

 

As far as surviving in arenas here's my advice.

-Stay back. Let the heavy armor, melee engage the enemy first (unless you're absolutely certain you're not going to be the one focused on first) Once your front line is engaged the chances of you being the target of their focus will be greatly diminished. After your front line is engaged pick 1 target of importance and focus on him till he dies.

-Stay in cover unless you absolutely need to get out. Even before your team engages you should be ready to duck to cover at a moments notice. This will prevent the other team from jumping into you or pulling you with harpoon.

-Entrench as soon as you get focus on. This will prevent the other team from stun locking you to death. I can't emphasis how important entrench is. It will save your life.

-The biggest threat to you is stealth. Even if you're behind your team you will be vulnerable to stealth so my best advice to you is, if you see stealth on the other team be in cover at all times and be ready to blow all your defensive cooldowns as soon as they open on you. If you can mitigate their opening burst he won't be able to compete with your sustained damage output.

-Use ballistic dampers and learn how they work. They reset every 6 seconds. So if you feel like you're taking too much damage use covered escape. It will not only get you out of focus fire it will reset your ballistic dampers and reduce damage taken.

Edited July 18, 2014 by chosonman

[BaineOs]

and completely useless in any form of Huttball.

Have to say I strongly disagree with that, extremely. With engineering you can do some stuff neither of the other two specs can. It's different I'll give you that but it's far from being useless in huttball. Please don't take it the wrong way but I get the impression you're looking at the spec from a pure dps point of view.

[Xuthal]

Alright...so thanks to everyone for the amazing feedback so far.

I have a question regarding what "Mandor" has said though:

Does everyone agree that basically the difference kind of lies in the fact that lethality is best vs range but sucks against melee, MM is kind of the jack of all trades without any particular strengths or weaknesses and engineering excells against melee however sucks at range?

 

I just want to get other point of views regarding that so I know if someone else figured something out regarding one of the specs which perhaps helps to compensate for the weakness of one of the specs so that eventually that would be the one which excells in PvP overall...because so far it seems to be depending on the situation which build is better but overall there is no clear "winner"?

 

And don't get me wrong, I do understand that this is probably what the devs are looking for when building the class and this is a state which is to be desired, however I thought that by eliminating PvE from the table there might be some advantages for one of the specs in overall.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Xuthal

[BaineOs]

To be honest you shouldn't go looking for the "best" spec you should be looking for the one you find the most fun, that'll have the biggest impact on your game more than anything else.

 

A huge word of caution regarding his comment about Engineering and Melee, it's effective yes but I don't believe any engineering sniper should rely upon it that much. Don't let it form how you play the spec, all I believe it does is take people away from how they should be using the spec. A lot of situations in pvp I also down to positioning, LOS works for us snipers too.

[ekolan]

3. Engineering

Against melee the engineers are the best spec. Anyone that comes within 4m of you will suffer greatly.

Against ranged it's the complete opposite. Your plasma probe is easily avoided, your scatter bombs don't work at range and you have to rely on some clunky mechanic that requires you to use Quickshot to try and finish an opponent. Quickshot usage has always bothered me the most when playing engineer. Why on earth am I forced to use a skill that no other sniper spec uses in any form. Both Marksmanship and Lethality snipers will shred you to pieces as you don't have any means to counter Diversion or dot+LOS.

The great advantage of the engineer is the node guarding and personal protection against melee. You'll be really good in Arenas, Novare coast and Voidstar, have some limited usability in Ancient Hypergate and Alderaan(guarding) and completely useless in any form of Huttball.

When I play sniper in any spec, as soon as I see a plasma probe, I start hunting for the engineer. It's so easy to kill them at range and brings so much advantage to your team when they die that I don't think any excellence at node guarding can compensate the big mark you get when people see plasma probe in Voidstar

 

I dont think anyone has pointed this out yet, so i'll go ahead and address it.. You left out the primary ability for this class, which is explosive probe. why?

 

IP > PP > EP > LS > SoS - incredible burst. Which you can follow with ambush, instant crit snipe, frag grenade Because well, why not?!?

 

The only thing overload shot is EVER used for is re-positioning imo. you have 4 free overload shots that you can use while running around. so why not use them in between whichever AoE you may want to use while running.

[MrGoldsilver]

The way i see it:

 

MM: Middle defenses, least mobility, meh AOE, great single target damage that can switch easily.

 

Eng: Best Defenses, middle mobility, good AOE, and good burst on long cooldown

 

Leth: Least defenses, most mobility, weak AOE, great single target sustained.

 

All three are viable for PvP, all three use different play styles, it just depends on how you want to play sniper.

 

(Sorry for the late post, my sub ran out during vacation)