Legacy Storage?

[Darth_Wicked]

There are already several means to do this in game. It's not like we're asking for something that is a foreign concept. When you hit 55 on an alt do you start with SM EV and work your way through every tier?

 

As a matter of fact, yes... In a way.

 

I ignore Campaign gear - unless I'm collecting the shells for that character - and op to craft Purple 66's and start from there. Depending on how much I fancy the character and the spec, I usually strive to have it using Purple 69's or 72's, before going to another character.

 

Regardless, I've pretty much given up on reusing mods, except on two characters that use Legacy shells I like.

 

I've played this game since launch, so if it's not the right game for me I'd say I've wasted a fair bit of time. Are you saying that if BW decides to implement this feature, which they've said they're considering, that it would all of a sudden not be the game for you? I see no issue requesting something, it's not as if I've been demanding or rude in my request. I don't understand your hostility.

 

I disagree with your assessment ≠ Hostility

 

Perfect sense.

 

Also, I never said or implied you're not entitled to request for something but last I checked, there's absolutely nothing that forbids me of presenting a counter-argument.

 

From the posts Eric has made it is a design decision still in flux, so to say it was ALWAYS designed to be a certain way would appear to be incorrect. They already have many means of gearing up a new 55 with legacy gear why would it be so crazy a thought to think that a Legacy storage would have a similar use? You can very easily have a full BiS PvP set, including Implants, Earpiece and Relics the moment you hit 55 is it completely unreasonable to have a similar means for PvE?

 

Because stuff that is bound to a specific character, namely specific mods, armor shells or weaponry... CANNOT be bound to your Legacy.

[Kirazy]

Buri, I don't BIS my alts with my main. What I do, however, is get them to an appreciable level of gear and then run the content themselves. Essentially I clear the initial gearing hurdles for my new characters, on my older ones. This in turn lets me gear our new characters quicker.

 

I'm not interested in gear grinding, it's a means to an end, I run content because I enjoy it and enjoy playing with friends.

[ivanhedgehog]

I am perfectly happy with the system as it stands, including how L. Storage looks to be shaping up - but if they did implement this sort of change, I would not have a problem with it. (Although as others have said there may be a legitimate concern that people would start rolling "Need" on absolutely everything in PUGs.)

 

I watched 2 level 55's argue over a lvl 50 green item in end of torvix the other day....really. its chump change vedor trash.....but they were at eachothers throats over it. people will abuse need/greed no matter what you do, dont use that as an excuse to stop doing something worthwhile.

[PavSalco]

Eric confirmed on today's stream that we can't put ANY bound item into the legacy storage.

[Darth_Wicked]

Eric confirmed on today's stream that we can't put ANY bound item into the legacy storage.

 

He had already confirmed yesterday.

[PavSalco]

He had already confirmed yesterday.

Yesterday all he said was that we couldn't put BoP items, so some people speculated that we would be allowed to put BoE items that were already bound.

[Darth_Wicked]

Yesterday all he said was that we couldn't put BoP items, so some people speculated that we would be allowed to put BoE items that were already bound.

 

Then it's not a BoE item anymore once bound to your character, is it?

[Kirazy]

Yesterday all he said was that we couldn't put BoP items, so some people speculated that we would be allowed to put BoE items that were already bound.

 

He said BOP. Everyone, rationally speaking, understood this to mean Bound, because there are no BOP items in inventory, ever, only on the ground. To presume this magically excluded BOE items that had become Bound, was weird desperate hope.

[Tsillah]

What I'd like to know if you can craft using mats directly from legacy storage like from current cargo space or if you have to take the mats out of the legacy storage before you can use em for crafting.

[eartharioch]

I have a question for people who have storage bays full of bound clothing. Why do you still have it if you don't use it anymore? All of my bound stuff I removed for better equipment I either sold or deleted. I am just curious as to why people hold onto this stuff.

 

In case I ever want to wear it [again] for the looks, especially if it's moddable. Just because *you* might not want to revisit an old look doesn't mean other people wouldn't. Also, many Bound items (Companion gear, old gear sets that are obsolete, or may become obsolete) are not replaceable, so deleting is permanent.

 

Ofc, using Legacy Storage for these items doesn't mean we need the ability for chars *other than the one to whom the gear is Bound* to be able to withdraw it. Using Legacy Storage (instead of Cargo Holds) for stuff I *may* want to use later, but don't need to access frequently, would be convenient.

 

And, ofc, I'm not arguing that Legacy Storage (at least my initial 80 slots) won't be useful or appreciated.

 

Just saying, there are valid reasons to store Bound gear that don't involve or require the ability to *transfer* gear to alts.

[Darth_Wicked]

What I'd like to know if you can craft using mats directly from legacy storage like from current cargo space or if you have to take the mats out of the legacy storage before you can use em for crafting.

 

They already answered that...

Alright folks, round 2! From what I can tell there were two big questions still on the table and here they are:

 

Can I place BoP items in my Legacy storage?

As of Game Update 2.9, you cannot place or "transfer" BoP items through your Legacy storage. I will say that this issue is something that we will continue to discuss internally and could potentially change in the future.

 

Can I access my crafting materials from Legacy storage?

Yes you can! The way it will work is that when you go to craft something, your materials will be pulled in this priority order: Inventory, Cargo, Legacy storage.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

-eric

Edited July 17, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[PavSalco]

Then it's not a BoE item anymore once bound to your character, is it?

It's not, but it used to be. People began to differentiate the bound items that were BoP from those that were BoE. They hoped that the legacy storage could do that too in order to allow their bound armor sets to be transfered to alts while keep forcing people to play the endgame content with alts to gather implants, earpieces and relics. But that was only a dream

[MeNaCe-NZ]

There are already several means to do this in game. It's not like we're asking for something that is a foreign concept. When you hit 55 on an alt do you start with SM EV and work your way through every tier?

 

Most do not know and I think what those against the use of legacy storage for all bound items and even using BoL to transfer bound items as can be done now is it makes it even worse for people running say level 50 content when they are level 50.

 

I personally believe if you couldn't transfer any mods etc. by BoL you would see more people running the level 50 content beyond the current classic operation weekly since there would be a small carrot in the form of gear there waiting ( and it's a lot more fun than bloody makeb ).

It may not be the answer to all the lack of people running the content but I would wager a lot more would if they ideally had to rather than just doing whatever possible ( KDY erk ) to unlock level 55 so they can then use the gear they have saved up as they do now.

 

In saying that I have no major issue with anything under level 50 being all BoL ( most of it is anyway I think ) since ideally that doesn't effect the elder game group content ( 50 onward ).

 

 

is it completely unreasonable to have a similar means for PvE?

Yes for the above reasons.

 

Also what is this all about gear grinding everyone goes on about? Does everyone truly need everything BiS/set bonus? No. 95% of people aren't going to run NiM content ( which IMO is where you actually NEED BiS / set bonus gear ). Knowing that then all you are really grinding for is comms to buy the gear and with the amount of classic/basic/elite and finally ultimate comms you can earn in a week ( along with the gear drops themselves ) makes it very fast to progress your gear, fast enough you can still probably happily skip SM 50 content and go straight to HM 50. There is no gear grind except really for the 180's to a degree due to limited ult comms and then the set piece gear from the HM 55 ops.

 

Also I wonder how many people complaining about now wanting to grind for gear happily grind dailies each day for credits. The most boring, monotonous crap you can possibly do people happily do but when it comes to maybe having to run level 50+ operations and flashpoints for gear that's the thing that is just too much? Right.

 

I think it humorous the amount of people you see doing EV HM just to get the weekly classic operation done and they choose that simply because it's fast and easy. You don't see KP runs really anymore and people are s*** scared of EC because it has "scary" mechanics they don't know. All this while people cry about needing new content ... kinda funny to me anyway since EC is great operation to run and even more enjoyable if you try run it as a level 50 with gear suited to a level 50 and then progress to the HM/NiM modes if you are brave enough accordingly.

You know ... kinda how it used to be before this BoL crap?

 

It's just like all the people cheesing mechanics or bypassing 50% of flashpoints just to get them done quicker etc. etc.

People just seem to be in some sort of mad rush for gear without having to stop and actually enjoy the game as designed and BoL transfers make that even worse e.g. veterans running FP/OP content etc. as fast as possible to get gear for their under leveled/strength alts and ruining the experience for first timers or people who haven't ran it a million times.

 

I get then there are only people interested in "progression" runs so again ... why do you need to send BoL items to alts? How do progression runners have time for alts? Very few would I would think if they are aiming to progress through all current progression content.

Currently if I read this correctly there are 16 people who have completed 16M DP NiM ( 1 guild ) and 40 people who have completed 8M DP NiM ( 6 guilds ). I could be wrong there but then I'm only going off those tables in the flashpoint/operation section as to who has/hasn/t completed it. Funny if it's true though because so many people talk about running NiM content etc. but if those are the case very few every truly complete it.

 

So yeah progression people should more than have their hands full trying to progress through that content than to worry about running other content and taking gear they don't need for an alt who hasn't earned it.

 

Compromise to me would be closing the BoL loophole and allowing people to send bound items they've actually had equipped for 2+ weeks continuously ( have it change to BoL after this time frame, 2 weeks seems a fair time frame for something to be equipped for before you would ideally unlock anything better ) meaning you can actually send items you yourself have used to legacy toons as opposed to things you've gone into content too easy for you and more or less ninja'd it from people who actually have use for it.

 

^^ This solution I would support. Be interesting to see how many of the pro - BoL/bound everything transfer people would support it because otherwise you're just lazy and I don't see how you can justify bound transfers beyond being lazy ( haven't seen many/any posts honestly and just say "I'm lazy and want to ninja gear and send to me toons" yet ).

 

Failing that close the BoL loophole and make everyone earn everything. It's not hard.

[Kirazy]

Menace, you keep arguing that the ability to move mods between characters with Legacy gear is a "loophole" or an undesirable effect.

 

How is that even remotely believable by this point? Like, what ELSE would you do with modable legacy gear? Outside of cases where you either share mods between characters, or transfer mods between characters?

 

I find it difficult to imagine that Bioware overlooked this in their original implementation and testing phase for the Legacy system, and has somehow remained ignorant that players are using the gear in this manner for the YEARS the system has been in place.

 

They have enlarged people's ability to do this, and made it significantly more accessible.

 

Your contention that the system is a "loophole" and "unintended and undesirable side effect" doesn't hold water.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

In case I ever want to wear it [again] for the looks, especially if it's moddable. Just because *you* might not want to revisit an old look doesn't mean other people wouldn't. Also, many Bound items (Companion gear, old gear sets that are obsolete, or may become obsolete) are not replaceable, so deleting is permanent.

 

See that can = another compromise I at least would support for the people who only want the gear for aesthetics and not for boosting under strength alts at the possible expense of others.

 

That would be making any/all gear BoL when it is only a shell ( with a dye mod added is allowed ). So you're lovely CM gear you wore a year ago that you don't use anymore but would like to send to a toon to wear as it would look good on them however still has 168 mods in it so is bound. You simply strip out the bound items, the shell becomes BoL and you put it in legacy storage for your toon to pickup.

 

This way the money sink for removing mods still exists too.

[MishraArtificer]

In case I ever want to wear it [again] for the looks, especially if it's moddable. Just because *you* might not want to revisit an old look doesn't mean other people wouldn't. Also, many Bound items (Companion gear, old gear sets that are obsolete, or may become obsolete) are not replaceable, so deleting is permanent.

This, right here.

 

I burned my Tionese commendations the day before 2.0 and Rise of the Hutt Cartel dropped on about 10 weapons I wanted to save for future characters, just in case they did allow the transfer of Bound items across your Legacy one day. It was just about the only thing you COULD do with Tionese comms by then, especially after seeing the exchange rate to Classic comms (what was it, 9 to 1?). Now, the mods in those weapons are practically useless now, as I can craft better ones, or even buy better ones with Planetary commendations, but their appearances have never been entirely copied. Some of the models have, but the color schemes they used...ugh.

[Darth_Wicked]

This, right here.

 

I burned my Tionese commendations the day before 2.0 and Rise of the Hutt Cartel dropped on about 10 weapons I wanted to save for future characters, just in case they did allow the transfer of Bound items across your Legacy one day. It was just about the only thing you COULD do with Tionese comms by then, especially after seeing the exchange rate to Classic comms (what was it, 9 to 1?). Now, the mods in those weapons are practically useless now, as I can craft better ones, or even buy better ones with Planetary commendations, but their appearances have never been entirely copied. Some of the models have, but the color schemes they used...ugh.

 

Which is why we have color dyes.

 

My most recent Mercenary on the Progenitor, using what would appear to be the Rakata Eliminator / Combat Medic armor set. The dye may differ ever slightly but comes close enough for me.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Menace, you keep arguing that the ability to move mods between characters with Legacy gear is a "loophole" or an undesirable effect.

 

How is that even remotely believable by this point? Like, what ELSE would you do with modable legacy gear? Outside of cases where you either share mods between characters, or transfer mods between characters?

 

I find it difficult to imagine that Bioware overlooked this in their original implementation and testing phase for the Legacy system, and has somehow remained ignorant that players are using the gear in this manner for the YEARS the system has been in place.

 

They have enlarged people's ability to do this, and made it significantly more accessible.

 

Your contention that the system is a "loophole" and "unintended and undesirable side effect" doesn't hold water.

 

 

Right so the multitude of bugs and issues that Bioware DON'T fix are only bugs and issues when they suit the people raising them? Or maybe they are all working as intended? As we know there are many from years ago ( have a read of the customer service threads or bug sections from time to time )

 

Why do you people continue to claim it's working as intended as opposed to yet something else that was an unintended consequence that they didn't bother fixing because it would cause more harm than good ( and hardly anyone truly complains about it until now ). What is worse some people think this is the direction that BW devs must be heading in ( allowing transfer of bound items ) - how stupid is that? If they wanted you to transfer bound items between legacy they WOULDN'T be bound items. They would be BOL heh. Is it really that hard to understand?

 

Money sink argument also as you say "holds no water" as if it was an intentional mechanism they would have just made it a set cost to make bound items BoL via an unlock or introduced something else to allow legacy transfers at X cost. The fact they hadn't even really thought it through as an option until late in the process for legacy storage and now they are saying NO means the concept of it being an intentional change for BoL gear allowing bound item transfer doesn't only hold water, it will hardly hold air.

 

It's something they erred on and didn't fix, like 100's of other issues in this game that aren't "game breaking".

 

What would you do with modable gear? Seems to me you would send the shells to your legacy toons so they could use it and then add mods etc.

 

What I wonder is also this ...legacy gear is quite non supported by BW now in later game etc. They add the odd piece in here and there ( and yes having realized their mistake with the BoL transfer and noting it was quite popular and good money sink added one more off hand item to round it out, doesn't mean they were intending this use for it all along ) and it's almost always reputation based here for higher end stuff. So when was legacy gear introduced in comparison to when the game went F2P and the CM came into dominant existence? Could it be the concept of legacy gear was meant to be far more fleshed out and thought through and there would be lots, lots more of it had the CM not come along? I mean perhaps all the stuff we see on CM now maybe have been a form a legacy gear had the game not gone F2P and that would have made the legacy gear have a much better use? ( I.e. get an awesome armor drop from an op that would look way better on your toon so you send the BoL shell you dropped to them - again never intending people to actually send the mods etc. )

 

I could be wrong but food for thought, not entirely sure on the whole timeline thing here but I would have thought if this whole BoL thing was an intended thing we would see a lot more BoL gear around ( but we won't as it impacts upon CM gear ).

 

Also I never said BW were ignorant of it for years, I'm saying like many things they haven't bothered to fix it as they have deemed it a) not worth the time trouble as in their eyes it doesn't do any major harm b) would cause too much of an uproar amongst the altoholics if they did change it. If you think they couldn't possibly have missed it in testing heh ... you don't play this game much do you? Anyone remember how successful the 16m GF was? OK that example could be argued not tested over server load so how about something else recent to my mind ( and others would have way better examples I'm sure ) in the awesome launch of the DF/DP ops on the live servers ... those were completely doable and well tested right?! Heh get real.

[Kirazy]

Right so the multitude of bugs and issues that Bioware DON'T fix are only bugs and issues when they suit the people raising them? Or maybe they are all working as intended? As we know there are many from years ago ( have a read of the customer service threads or bug sections from time to time )

 

Why do you people continue to claim it's working as intended as opposed to yet something else that was an unintended consequence that they didn't bother fixing because it would cause more harm than good ( and hardly anyone truly complains about it until now ). What is worse some people think this is the direction that BW devs must be heading in ( allowing transfer of bound items ) - how stupid is that? If they wanted you to transfer bound items between legacy they WOULDN'T be bound items. They would be BOL heh. Is it really that hard to understand?

 

Menace, lol. Why do we claim it's working as intended? Because we honest to God cannot come up with any other use case that would necessitate releasing a gear set that is modable and moves between characters.

 

What use case do YOU, PERSONALLY imagine a modable gear set that moves between characters as having that does NOT include sharing of mods/armorings/enhancements, or transfering of same?

[MishraArtificer]

Which is why we have color dyes.

 

My most recent Mercenary on the Progenitor, using what would appear to be the Rakata Eliminator / Combat Medic armor set. The dye may differ ever slightly but comes close enough for me.

...color dyes on WEAPONS?

 

Most of the old armor (except the T/C/R Agent sets) was hideous, but the weapons were pretty awesome. Not to mention MUCH more imaginatively named...but that's another story entirely. With the release of the Agile Recon set in this latest pack, my needs to have copies of that old Agent gear have been met, and now I have only my SECOND EVER armor set unlock in Collections. But the weapons have still not been rereleased.

 

That said, dyes on weapons would be perfect for me. The one model of rifle I'm after is still around on the Classic vendor, it's just in an absolutely HIDEOUS purple/yellow/brown color scheme (Campaign Supercommando, on Republic side) or mottled green and rust (Campaign Enforcer, on Empire side). Throw a black/black or even a white/red dye in that model, I'd be set.

Edited July 17, 2014 by MishraArtificer

[Darth_Wicked]

...color dyes on WEAPONS?

 

Ohhhhhhh. Apologies.

 

I was under the impression you were referring to armor sets. Ma bad.

[Anaesha]

I made a suggestion about adding dye mods to weapons but it got lost in the suggestions box......Maybe I'll go and find it.

[MishraArtificer]

Ohhhhhhh. Apologies.

 

I was under the impression you were referring to armor sets. Ma bad.

Yeah, I had a feeling that would happen the second AFTER I posted that, so I added to the post to clarify.

 

I think a certain Redditor whose name shall remain classified explained why weapons couldn't use dyes...something about the models being rendered differently, or something...

[Ratajack]

Menace, lol. Why do we claim it's working as intended? Because we honest to God cannot come up with any other use case that would necessitate releasing a gear set that is modable and moves between characters.

 

What use case do YOU, PERSONALLY imagine a modable gear set that moves between characters as having that does NOT include sharing of mods/armorings/enhancements, or transfering of same?

 

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember a dev post regarding legacy gear. If I remember correctly, the devs said they did foresee players putting mods into legacy gear and sending that gear to alts, but they did not foresee bound mods being placed into legacy gear and/or those bound mods being removed by the alt and placed into a different piece of gear the alt already had. When they realized this happening they simply allowed it to continue, rather than putting a halt to it.

 

I cannot find the exact statement, but I did find several links that would tend support my memory:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=454232

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=496053

 

http://www.*********.com/forums/mmo/star-wars-old-republic/swtor-exploits/348554-transfer-bm-wh-mods-between-alts-using-legacy.html

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Menace, lol. Why do we claim it's working as intended? Because we honest to God cannot come up with any other use case that would necessitate releasing a gear set that is modable and moves between characters.

 

Yet I managed to come up with a possible reason in a few minutes and that seems somehow far fetched to you compared to this being a working as intended change ( vs. them actually just allowing you transfer bound items heh ).

 

Whoever this we are you really need to put more effort into actually thinking as opposed to complaining it would seem.

 

What use case do YOU, PERSONALLY imagine a modable gear set that moves between characters as having that does NOT include sharing of mods/armorings/enhancements, or transfering of same?

 

I've outlined a couple of these now a couple of times so please actually READ before asking the same redundant questions over and over. That's about 3 of you doing so now directly to me without actually referring to my concept(s) / possible reason(s) and telling me why it is/isn't a stupid idea which could actually progress the debate instead o running it in the circles they seem to be going in as you all can't seem to ignore the points you have no answer for.

 

Knowing some of the monumentous bugs the game has come out with ( and stayed in for quite some time ) is it a push for them to have neglected to think that adding bound items to a BoL shell would have made the shell bound? You know kinda like when you add in rating 169 mods etc. the gear becomes 168? It obviously didn't but whether or not this was intentional or not is the debate at hand.

 

Anyway let me ask a few basic questions and maybe progress things further since I'm bothering to answer those that address questions to me directly but none of you seem to want to address my counter points.

 

1. If this BoL item transfer allowing bound mod etc. transfer was intended ... why haven't they made a better system? Or why didn't they make a better system to begin with? Yes it's a money sink but it's such a stupidly awful way of sending bound mods etc. that I personally find it hard to believe that this was the design choice ( where as simple X cost based on gear level rating to unbind it to BoL would be much smarter ).

 

2. Again if this was the intended concept and they were heading down this line of thought why have they said no to allowing bound item transfer? You could argue this thread has about 60-70% weighting FOR sending bound items between legacy so if it had the community support AND they were already wanting people to do this why now stop it?

 

3. CM Crystals cost CC's to unlock for legacy yet you can send those via the BoL "loophole" and not pay the CC as intended. Would you also say this was an intended measure? To allow people to not spend CC's?

 

Those are the main points I can think of against why this was never an intended concept anyway. I look forward ot your rebuttal/reply.