Reno_Tarshil Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) Not really. Because the reality is you and your ilk ATTACK people not happy with the state of the game, whereas these people didn't start out attacking you, just expressing their displeasure of the game's current direction. At the end of the day, you guys are still the aggressors the majority of the time, while lobbing hypocritical insults at people who weren't looking to start crap with you in the first place. Hostile threads get hostile responses? Edited June 27, 2014 by Reno_Tarshil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Hostile threads get hostile responses? Perhaps people should ask themselves, when responding "What would Brian Boitano do?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Perhaps people should ask themselves, when responding "What would Brian Boitano do?" My point is if people want mature, polite and civil constructive discussions, name calling and labeling and being hostile is the opposite way to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfa Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Perhaps people should ask themselves, when responding "What would Brian Boitano do?" Who? Sorry, I don't watch Curling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 My point is if people want mature, polite and civil constructive discussions, name calling and labeling and being hostile is the opposite way to do it. Agree, of course. But sometimes people just want the corn to pop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Who? Sorry, I don't watch Curling. Curling? Well it is ice-related. See this Wikipedia article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlasmaJohn Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 That how it is in every mmo I've played. Summer time is vacation time and some players have lives and would rather spend those summer days doing summer stuff instead of playin an MMO. Yes there's usually a small dip during the Summer. What I'm seeing ain't small. Last year at this time there would be three Fleet instances on JC during the week. This year? Can barely keep two full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) Yes there's usually a small dip during the Summer. What I'm seeing ain't small. Last year at this time there would be three Fleet instances on JC during the week. This year? Can barely keep two full. Dude... check the trend view on torstatus for your server for the last three months. Nothing drastic has happened. Lower then last year?....yes... then again... last year we were still cooling down from the spike from 2.0... this year we have not yet received an expac to draw players back for some game time. Edited June 27, 2014 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangrar Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) Not really. Because the reality is you and your ilk ATTACK people not happy with the state of the game, whereas these people didn't start out attacking you, just expressing their displeasure of the game's current direction. At the end of the day, you guys are still the aggressors the majority of the time, while lobbing hypocritical insults at people who weren't looking to start crap with you in the first place. look I wanted to play nice, I did not disagree with anything you said EXCEPT the level of insults you have been using, thank you for lobbing me into the group of people who go "FU ***hole why don't you leave the game already?" even though I did not even mention that at all. Again, JUST BE NICE TO OTHER POSTERS and we will treat you nicely, if not then why are you surprised. Edited June 27, 2014 by Sangrar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 look I wanted to play nice, I did not disagree with anything you said EXCEPT the level of insults you have been using, thank you for lobbing me into the group of people who go "FU ***hole why don't you leave the game already?" even though I did not even mention that at all. Again, JUST BE NICE TO OTHER POSTERS and we will treat you nicely, if not then why are you surprised. I don't want to assume too much about your emotional state from your post, but it never hurts to remind people that when a troll makes someone angry, the troll counts that as a win. Don't let the trolls win. "That's my secret, Captain: I'm always angry." -- Bruce Banner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangrar Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) I don't want to assume too much about your emotional state from your post, but it never hurts to remind people that when a troll makes someone angry, the troll counts that as a win. Don't let the trolls win. "That's my secret, Captain: I'm always angry." -- Bruce Banner no I just used caps to emphasize the main point of the post, not angry, just trying to get a point across also, doesn't that quote kind of contradict what you said!? true but still Edited June 27, 2014 by Sangrar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 WoW does it. DDO and LotRO do it. SWG did it. What I am asking for is pretty common for how MMOs communicate to their players. What's laughable is that you think it is some huge ordeal. You're entitled to your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtkram Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 what if, instead of telling us what they're going to do when, they just outline their priorities. for example, a couple/few years ago EA said they wanted to compete with Zynga (because they made lots of money) and had a focus on f2p/subscription content of the sort Zynga was developing. now they say they're focused on players. i don't know if that's true, but if it is it gives us an idea of what they want to achieve without making any sort of specific claim they will have to back up in the future. andryah has said a couple times (just today i think) that this game doesn't really focus on pvp. it's a pve game with pvp attached. i would be inclined to think it's a stripped down sim game, where they focus on new hairstyles, and reskinning ops is added on, and pvp is kind of an afterthought. there is nothing in those 2 claims that defines what content will be released when, but i do think it would help if bioware were to state their goals in a similar manner. are they trying to develop a balanced game between cosmetics/RP -> pve -> pvp? or are they focusing on some of those more than others? there could be other elements to the game they're focused on that i'm not even thinking of. perhaps it's a priority to develop a place other than fleet for people to gather, or maybe they're trying to develop a system for like-minded people to meet each other easier, and the cosmetic/pvp/pve aspects are actually secondary to those goals. taking my word for it (which you're not, because the mods like deleting my posts for some reason) isn't a good way for players to form opinions. bioware should be leading this instead of narcissistic idiots with fluffed up egos (i'm referring to only myself, so that's not an attack on anyone else). a roadmap is great, and i think they should keep releasing those even if there are delays. people will complain either way, so saying they shouldn't communicate because people will complain about it is as dumb as expecting people to stop complaining. however, i really think it would help if they brought back the 'state of the game' updates jeff hickman did. or james ohlen could do one. and they could outline their priorities without making any commitments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnoblesse Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Sorry, but I cannot take that statement seriously. PvP players never cooperate enough, or long enough to "consolidate" together on a server successfully... for anything. Whether or not you choose to take his statement seriously isn't really relevant to the fact that it is, actually, 100% true. With little to no communication from BW about where things were going, things pretty much did happen exactly as he said. Teams/guilds were even cooperating/communicating enough to get cross region (NA/EU) ranked 8v8 matches going on the PTS. In the absence of cross server queuing, guilds did the best they could to get the closest thing possible when/where they could. Many of these matches can be found on YouTube still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RakghoulsRTrolls Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) Sorry, but I cannot take that statement seriously. PvP players never cooperate enough, or long enough to "consolidate" together on a server successfully... for anything. Back before any server consolidations or character transfers were live ------> Remember The Fatman... the player declared end-all be-all PvP server to self-address all the low server populations? It worked for a few months, and then they started eating each others own entrails and simply abandoned and went back whatever server and characters they had before hand. Which is probably why The Fatman did not survive the great server merge and consolidation to our current servers. What a bunch of misinformation. But knowing you you're just sitting at a GTN PvP'ing the market while alt-tabbed defending on these forums... We cooperated extensively when EAware offered PAID server transfers in preparation for 2.4, since the devs hailed that as "the PvP patch." Unfortunately they killed any hope left for PvP in this game when they announced that ranked 8s, a PvP system more dynamic and complex than 4s, would be replaced with ranked 4s. MANY guilds and players transferred to the it PvP server in order to make up for the lack of x-server, which was said to come with ranked 8s season 1. But neither ever came... Except the consolidation and cooperation of PvP'ers with 2.4 is child's play compared to what happened during the great server droughts of 2012. This was a multi-playstyle cooperative movement in order not just to save PvP and PvE, but to save the whole game. The Fatman never died because "we started eating each others own entrails," as you so eloquently put it. What a load of BS. The reason The Fatman died is because the devs decided to finally have their first round of forced server transfers. Knowing that players could finally go back to the first toons they left behind, they left en masse to prepare to go to their new servers, which would be way more populated as dozens of servers were consolidated by this massive overhaul of the population droughts. IIRC The Fatman didn't receive any transfers at all, and if so just a few servers, but that is nothing compared to what other servers received. Next time, instead of just focusing on your blind dislike towards the PvP community and SWTOR white knighting to justify yourself, look up the facts. They're archived all over the place. Even the PvP forums would be happy to educate you on The Fatman's downfall. It was due to EAware, not due to the community. Toodles. That how it is in every mmo I've played. Summer time is vacation time and some players have lives and would rather spend those summer days doing summer stuff instead of playin an MMO. And let me guess... during the Fall it's school! During the winter months it's the holidays! During Spring it's Easter break! Always an excuse. Edited June 28, 2014 by RakghoulsRTrolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I am working during the streams. Are they recorded and available for anyone to view later? http://www.twitch.tv/swtor/profile/pastBroadcasts Not all streams since the beginning are there, but the latest ones are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 More communication is always better than less in a business setting and as relates to your customer. Not really. When you tell something, they expect to be exactly like that. When something changes or get delayed (which happens in the world of <insert whatever> development), they start crying they were lied to, demanding refunds etc. Therefore, it is better to speak in non definite terms, like "soon", "we are working on it", "it is on the horizon", etc, so you do not put foot in your mouth. For most people, hearing this quote only few times is enough. But some people on this forum are expecting reply to every answer to every complaint they have, and they do not want to hear the "non-answer", which the community team cannot provide as to avoid the foot in mouth situation. Also, people expect the answer immediately, not recognizing that people at Austin are still employees, and answering to people is their job, and that they deserve to have free weekends, vacations, work hours, etc. Some of this could maybe be solved with a "Community moderators", people from fansites, or dedicated forum members (aka people who like this game and are not getting paid by EA), who would be given a small inside scoop to what is being worked on, so they could placate the forums when Community Team cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistols Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) What a bunch of misinformation. But knowing you you're just sitting at a GTN PvP'ing the market while alt-tabbed defending on these forums... We cooperated extensively when EAware offered PAID server transfers in preparation for 2.4, since the devs hailed that as "the PvP patch." Unfortunately they killed any hope left for PvP in this game when they announced that ranked 8s, a PvP system more dynamic and complex than 4s, would be replaced with ranked 4s. MANY guilds and players transferred to the it PvP server in order to make up for the lack of x-server, which was said to come with ranked 8s season 1. But neither ever came... Except the consolidation and cooperation of PvP'ers with 2.4 is child's play compared to what happened during the great server droughts of 2012. This was a multi-playstyle cooperative movement in order not just to save PvP and PvE, but to save the whole game. The Fatman never died because "we started eating each others own entrails," as you so eloquently put it. What a load of BS. The reason The Fatman died is because the devs decided to finally have their first round of forced server transfers. Knowing that players could finally go back to the first toons they left behind, they left en masse to prepare to go to their new servers, which would be way more populated as dozens of servers were consolidated by this massive overhaul of the population droughts. IIRC The Fatman didn't receive any transfers at all, and if so just a few servers, but that is nothing compared to what other servers received. Next time, instead of just focusing on your blind dislike towards the PvP community and SWTOR white knighting to justify yourself, look up the facts. They're archived all over the place. Even the PvP forums would be happy to educate you on The Fatman's downfall. It was due to EAware, not due to the community. Toodles. And let me guess... during the Fall it's school! During the winter months it's the holidays! During Spring it's Easter break! Always an excuse. Pretty much nailed it. The "user" you quoted has no idea about PvP woes or anything that happened on The Fatman, which in reading said users post, is pretty evident. PvP is dwindling on ALL PvP servers due to a combination of 1. years of bad PvP development and 2. poor management direction, of said gameplay aspect. It's not a secret to anyone, heck even the hardcore PvE base has seen a huge drop in subs. Development wise, this game has hit an all-time low. Simple truth of it, nobody at the helm cares about the health of gameplay in TOR anymore, no matter the aspect (minus the CM), and that is fact. Edited June 28, 2014 by Pistols Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 More communication is always better than less in a business setting and as relates to your customer. Entirely not true. More communication is never better than the right communication either. Especially in a business setting, communicating to customers has to be done correctly or you will face backlash when your previous information turns out wrong. We see it often across many MMO's. Statement A is made during production and testing of game content/changes before a release date is given. Closer to release Statement B is made that either contradicts Statement A in some form or another or fails to mention specific parts of Statement A for whatever reason. The forums explode because "promises" made in Statement A weren't kept (even though such specific promises were ever made) or because "B" didn't mention a specific item from "A" so that must mean it isn't there any more... When Statement C rolls out,just before release people are still peeved about "B" and start picking "C" apart in their fury over being "lied to" or whatever excuse is being used. So why would anyone ever give a statement that isn't anything more than generalities until the "facts" can be given? If you'd prefer the Dev team to tell you random crap that may or may not be factual, you are part of the problem because that information WILL be held as a promise of what is, beyond any doubt, going to happen by a vocal portion of the player base and used in arguments against the team and company for the life of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) Pretty much nailed it. The "user" you quoted has no idea about PvP woes or anything that happened on The Fatman, which in reading said users post, is pretty evident. PvP is dwindling on ALL PvP servers due to a combination of 1. years of bad PvP development and 2. poor management direction, of said gameplay aspect. It's not a secret to anyone, heck even the hardcore PvE base has seen a huge drop in subs. Development wise, this game has hit an all-time low. Simple truth of it, nobody at the helm cares about the health of gameplay in TOR anymore, no matter the aspect (minus the CM), and that is fact. PvP servers are dying because the players who populate them are anti-social trolls who think World PvP is pwning low level toons with their full PvP gear set 55 while screaming at them to "L2P". Not really sure what "hardcore PvE" is unless you consider the 1% of MMO gamers that tear through content so rapidly that they move on to another game like locusts. A "huge drop" in subs from a huge minority of people is still a tiny, tiny number. I'd like to know your source inside EA/BW since you seem to know all the facts. If you are going to hold up something as fact, you'd better show your work. Otherwise, like the entirety of the game forums, it is nothing more than one persons opinion. Edited June 28, 2014 by Grayseven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RakghoulsRTrolls Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I'd like to know your source inside EA/BW since you seem to know all the facts. If you are going to hold up something as fact, you'd better show your work. Otherwise, like the entirety of the game forums, it is nothing more than one persons opinion. Like yours? Because you've failed to provide any sort of sources for... A) PvP servers are dying because the players who populate them are anti-social trolls who think World PvP is pwning low level toons with their full PvP gear set 55 while screaming at them to "L2P". And B) 1% of MMO gamers that tear through content so rapidly that they move on to another game like locusts. A "huge drop" in subs from a huge minority of people is still a tiny, tiny number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Like yours? Because you've failed to provide any sort of sources for... A) And B) I figured if others were going to make wild unsubstantiated claims, I would do the same. The difference is that at no point did I state these were facts. They are merely my opinion. Huge, huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangrar Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I figured if others were going to make wild unsubstantiated claims, I would do the same. and boom goes the dynamite. well played Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Everything Pistols and I said was fact, not wild, unsubstantiated claims. It seems you, like the "user" Pistols pointed out, know absolutely NOTHING in regards to the PvP community and the hardcore/competitive community overall. You swung and missed again. If it is, indeed, fact then you can both show your proof. If you can't back up your facts, they are nothing more than supposition and opinion. Don't be mad because you fell for the bait. I have toons on Pot5, I PvP regularly, I progression raid...all of which gives me plenty of knowledge about what is going on. The majority have no problems. The minority that consider themselves to be the so-called "hardcore" are not the players development cycles are planned around. We are all competitive, so I'm not sure what community you are talking about there. We wouldn't keep playing the game if we weren't competitive...with ourselves or against others. Edit: Forums ate my post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantida Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 The game has become really stale for PvE players. And GSH, in my opinion, is just another template for cartel market transactions. I'm sure lots of people, including myself, might find it fun to decorate their houses and spend their CC's on items for it, but how sustainable is that? People are bored, and probably have been for a long time. there's othing wrong with what the OP has said. He's very accurate with his points. As for all the complaints of whiners in the forums about the game, if they didn't care about the game and wanted it to be a success, they wouldn't take the time to voice their concerns here. That's the whole point of a forum. Voice your concerns, issues, idea's. U don't just file them under trolls or whiners and disregard what they have to say. The lack of effort by BW is obviously popular. And if the game was as good as other people claim it to be, why would there be so much complaining about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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