Class balance - Dev feedback

[Brunner_Venda]

Since Bioware's combat team can't find their backsides with both hands, a flashlight, written instructions, and a map, it's up to us.

 

Rather than arguing about one person's suggestions, everyone add your own. Maybe if the devs see a pattern to this, they might find actually find two working brain cells amongst the half dozen of them and do something about it.

 

1. Which classes are overpowered? How would you fix it?

2. Which classes need the most help, and how?

[Lathrim]

Your thread is a fantastic method of not getting the developers' attention in the way one'd ideally want to. Insulting their intelligence will do no good to your goal nor your chances of being heard.

[Brunner_Venda]

Your thread is a fantastic method of not getting the developers' attention in the way one'd ideally want to. Insulting their intelligence will do no good to your goal nor your chances of being heard.

 

Being friendly has worked wonders so far.

[Lathrim]

Being friendly has worked wonders so far.

 

And that means uncalled-for hostility will be any different? Please.

 

Plus, since when does civility need any reason other than itself in order to be practiced?

[Brunner_Venda]

And that means uncalled-for hostility will be any different? Please.

 

Plus, since when does civility need any reason other than itself in order to be practiced?

 

The last two years have been hostile enough with their terrible decision making. At least I care enough to still be here, the rest of POT5 is busy playing Wildstar.

 

I'll start then:

 

TTK is too low.

Possible fixes:

1. The burst damage needs a nerf, it's been creeping up globally since 2.0.

2. The DCD's have to be improved across the board, and the CD's reduced. Why does undying rage still cost half health when juggs are running around with 30K self heals?

3. Health is too low in proportion to damage, nothing should be able to do over a third of your health in one hit.

 

Class balance is in the toilet, to the point where season 2 is a sad joke.

Possible fixes:

1. Assassins (especially deception) are scissors in a world full of paper, please fix one (non sage/inquisitor) class to be a counter. Just ONE. Preferably sniper, give them a purpose on a team.

2. Every OP is a healer in ranked. Why? Because the DPS specs are so far behind assassins and PT's, there's no point to bringing them except for maybe comedy relief.

3. Snipers are a non-factor in a competitive environment. I know these guys touched everyone in a naughty place post 2.0, but there has been a chain of nerfs since then, in addition to major buffs to other class DPS and survivability.

[Maudril]

Being friendly has worked wonders so far.

 

It took a while, but in case you haven't noticed the changes in 2.8 were very heavily feedback dependent. Look at Madness assassins and madness sorcs of the patch before. They took our suggestions in particular for the Wrath stacks and the Assassinate proc, and implemented the proc in a way that didnt interfere with Madness sins execute phase.

 

Being friendly has helped a lot more than bashing. When the next patch rolls around, give your feedback there. No class is now without a viable DPS spec, and the tank and healer balance has never been better.

 

So, be productive. Make some suggestions, call out what you see as underpowered and overpowered.

[Lathrim]

The last two years have been hostile enough with their terrible decision making. At least I care enough to still be here, the rest of POT5 is busy playing Wildstar.

 

I'll start then:

 

TTK is too low.

Possible fixes:

1. The burst damage needs a nerf, it's been creeping up globally since 2.0.

2. The DCD's have to be improved across the board, and the CD's reduced. Why does undying rage still cost half health when juggs are running around with 30K self heals?

3. Health is too low in proportion to damage, nothing should be able to do over a third of your health in one hit.

 

Class balance is in the toilet, to the point where season 2 is a sad joke.

Possible fixes:

1. Assassins (especially deception) are scissors in a world full of paper, please fix one (non sage/inquisitor) class to be a counter. Just ONE. Preferably sniper, give them a purpose on a team.

2. Every OP is a healer in ranked. Why? Because the DPS specs are so far behind assassins and PT's, there's no point to bringing them except for maybe comedy relief.

3. Snipers are a non-factor in a competitive environment. I know these guys touched everyone in a naughty place post 2.0, but there has been a chain of nerfs since then, in addition to major buffs to other class DPS and survivability.

 

What does TTK mean? I pretty much agree with everything you said here, just need to understand that one.

 

It took a while, but in case you haven't noticed the changes in 2.8 were very heavily feedback dependent. Look at Madness assassins and madness sorcs of the patch before. They took our suggestions in particular for the Wrath stacks and the Assassinate proc, and implemented the proc in a way that didnt interfere with Madness sins execute phase.

 

Being friendly has helped a lot more than bashing. When the next patch rolls around, give your feedback there. No class is now without a viable DPS spec, and the tank and healer balance has never been better.

 

So, be productive. Make some suggestions, call out what you see as underpowered and overpowered.

 

I agree that the tank/healer balance has improved, but I don't quite think it's where it should be. Tanks have always been underpowered in this game, and 2.8 is no exception to that.

[JP_Legatus]

I think TTK is fine. I liked this game better when TTK was lower, back before the massive healerbuff in the first expansion.

[Adovir]

TTK: time to kill

[MidichIorian]

Hmm, I think the balance is actually pretty decent at the moment. People are always complaining about Ranked being dead so who the hell cares about balance in it? And don't pretend that it's dead because we don't have balance. It's dead because it's a POS gametype that foremost the people who now are playing WS played.

It's impossible to draw any conclusions on balance from normal Arena when there are atleast three healers in every game so just get rid of that crap too.

[JediMasterSLC]

The last two years have been hostile enough with their terrible decision making. At least I care enough to still be here, the rest of POT5 is busy playing Wildstar.

 

I'll start then:

 

TTK is too low.

Possible fixes:

1. The burst damage needs a nerf, it's been creeping up globally since 2.0.

2. The DCD's have to be improved across the board, and the CD's reduced. Why does undying rage still cost half health when juggs are running around with 30K self heals?

3. Health is too low in proportion to damage, nothing should be able to do over a third of your health in one hit.

 

Class balance is in the toilet, to the point where season 2 is a sad joke.

Possible fixes:

1. Assassins (especially deception) are scissors in a world full of paper, please fix one (non sage/inquisitor) class to be a counter. Just ONE. Preferably sniper, give them a purpose on a team.

2. Every OP is a healer in ranked. Why? Because the DPS specs are so far behind assassins and PT's, there's no point to bringing them except for maybe comedy relief.

3. Snipers are a non-factor in a competitive environment. I know these guys touched everyone in a naughty place post 2.0, but there has been a chain of nerfs since then, in addition to major buffs to other class DPS and survivability.

 

I don't think TTK is that off. And deception sins are definitely not a problem (and no, I do not main deception, or even play it on my shadow). But undying rage should be un-nerfed, and sniper needs defensive buff at this point. And of course op heals should be nerfed and op dps buffed.

[GravitySabre]

Sent's are squishy and watchman is still a joke in pvp. By the time you setup damage you are dead.

 

And overall, resolve is a joke and needs to be re-worked. CC is out of control

Edited June 22, 2014 by GravitySabre

[acid_s]

god forbid for balance being set by QQ'ers arguing all day long with "bright" ideas like nerf guard or get rid of yolos.

 

want example?

 

TTK is too low.

 

did you even play 4v4? with tank and a healer? please nerf burst, improve DCD and heals, and tell me how we are supposed to play game with 2 dps, 1 tank and 1 healer.

 

lets see for other great ideas, from the same post:

 

1. Assassins (especially deception) are scissors in a world full of paper, please fix one (non sage/inquisitor) class to be a counter. Just ONE. Preferably sniper, give them a purpose on a team.

 

and yet he's QQing about juggs with their 30k heals, which is that ONE counter to sins.

 

3. Snipers are a non-factor in a competitive environment. I know these guys touched everyone in a naughty place post 2.0, but there has been a chain of nerfs since then, in addition to major buffs to other class DPS and survivability.

 

heh, snipers didn't received any nerfs, at least not a major ones. second best player on TOFN is sniper. snipers have PLENTY of DCD, and are on good spot right now. if you can't play yours, well, that only shows that we shouldn't put balance issues in hands players like you.

[Doomleeonn]

Well, about the balance in classes i have some ideas:

1- In my opinion, juggernault and jedi guard in their respective DPS skill tree is hitting harder than my sentinel focus.

Juggernault and Jedi Guard has to be a good tanker and a medium DPS, because they're not meant to be a DPS.

If u are solo fight with a juggernault/guard DPS and u using a pure DPS you'll lose with 90% sure (with equal gears)

 

2- The pure dps class in the game: sentinel and snipers are not hitting harder than they should in comparation of juggernaults/guards. Because they're FULL DPS, they cannot be healers or tankers.. THEY'RE DPS

 

3- Sentinel's are dying like crap in pvp.

 

I'll be waiting for a damage nerf on jugg/guard

Edited June 22, 2014 by Doomleeonn

[acid_s]

AHAHAHA xD nerf also mercs, PTs, sins, sorcs and ops, because they all have possibility to be a healer/tank! leave only true dps specs like marauders and snipers possible to do a dps! xD

[GravitySabre]

Pure DPS classes should always do more dps than hybrid classes that can off heal. Period.... facing a class that can equal or out dps you while doing some decent healing is ridiculous.

[Brunner_Venda]

god forbid for balance being set by QQ'ers arguing all day long with "bright" ideas like nerf guard or get rid of yolos.

 

want example?

 

 

 

did you even play 4v4? with tank and a healer? please nerf burst, improve DCD and heals, and tell me how we are supposed to play game with 2 dps, 1 tank and 1 healer.

 

lets see for other great ideas, from the same post:

 

 

 

and yet he's QQing about juggs with their 30k heals, which is that ONE counter to sins.

 

 

 

heh, snipers didn't received any nerfs, at least not a major ones. second best player on TOFN is sniper. snipers have PLENTY of DCD, and are on good spot right now. if you can't play yours, well, that only shows that we shouldn't put balance issues in hands players like you.

 

1. Yeah, group 4v4's frequently come down to the acid. The 4 DPS solos are way different though. How would you fix it?

2. Nothing is an effective counter to a good sin, and I complained about the 30 seconds of ED. That was insane, and it lasted for months. Now it's over the top, but not nearly as bad as it was.

3. Orbital nerf? Flash bang single target nerf? Those were pretty major.

 

Players like me? At least I know how to read patch notes.

[JediMasterSLC]

Pure DPS classes should always do more dps than hybrid classes that can off heal. Period.... facing a class that can equal or out dps you while doing some decent healing is ridiculous.

 

That is ludicrous. Dps specced healing classes rarely off heal in competitive play.

[acid_s]

1. Yeah, group 4v4's frequently come down to the acid. The 4 DPS solos are way different though. How would you fix it? -certainly not by nerfing dps and buffing DCD, as you suggested xD

2. Nothing is an effective counter to a good sin, and I complained about the 30 seconds of ED. That was insane, and it lasted for months. Now it's over the top, but not nearly as bad as it was. -yeah, over the top, when you 1v1 it even don't use every stack, and if you 1vX it only gives you few more secs. but hey, juggs doesn't have pretty stealth out of combat, as almost every melee class have.

3. Orbital nerf? Flash bang single target nerf? Those were pretty major. -flashbang maybe, but ranked aoe mezz was OP and everyone admit it. you pull out orbital nerf? really? let me remind you that this "nerf" allowed you to put OS to your rotation, because shorter cd...

 

Players like me? At least I know how to read patch notes.

 

answers in green

[JediMasterSLC]

1. Yeah, group 4v4's frequently come down to the acid. The 4 DPS solos are way different though. How would you fix it?

2. Nothing is an effective counter to a good sin, and I complained about the 30 seconds of ED. That was insane, and it lasted for months. Now it's over the top, but not nearly as bad as it was.

3. Orbital nerf? Flash bang single target nerf? Those were pretty major.

 

Players like me? At least I know how to read patch notes.

 

1. Sometimes, but not usually. Not unless the DPS suck relative to healers. What server(s) do you do 4s on?

2. Stop whining about sins. Madness >= deception now anyway.

3. Got em. Flash bang nerf was good, orbital nerf was asinine.

[JackNader]

My honest opinion..

 

Time to kill is now way too low. DPS has increased substantially over past few patches for a lot of class. This has occurred without any correction in PvP Damage taken / Damage inflicted / Healing received or Hit point adjustments.

 

Too many DPS classes now have access to too many control effects. This would be a non issue if the resolve system actually did its job. They can fix this with a complete overhaul to the way resolve works or go through all the DPS classes and get rid of slow / root / stun bloat. IMO Tanks should be the only specs loaded out the wazoo with controlling effects. It's their job to be annoying *****s after all.

Edited June 22, 2014 by JackNader

[JediMasterSLC]

Lots of exaggeration here. TTK is probably a lower than optimum, but it's certainly not "way too low".

[JackNader]

split more hairs please.

[SeanFM]

you pull out orbital nerf? really? let me remind you that this "nerf" allowed you to put OS to your rotation, because shorter cd...

The nerf to OS was due to PvE. That is completely unrelated to OS's uses in PvP. No one in their right mind ever uses OS "rotationally" because in PvP people can just run out of it. Believe it or not, the 60% nerf to OS's damage actually nerfed sniper's survivability in PvP. Snipers would put OS on top of themselves and melee enemies would have to decided whether they should attack the sniper anyway and eat the OS damage (which could tick for around 7k in engineering) or if they should attack a different target. This meant that snipers weren't always the 1st target to be focused in arenas because it was suicide for a melee team to just stand in the OS.

3. Got em. Flash bang nerf was good, orbital nerf was asinine.

I know why you say the flashbang nerf was good, because an instant aoe mezz with a 30m range was OP. But again it nerfed snipers' survivability. Before the nerf, if you had 2, 3 or 4 melee dps up your arse you could flashbang them all and have time to reposition. I wish they would reduce the range of flashbang and give back the aoe bit. At a time when snipers need more survivability it's annoying that they nerfed it

[JediMasterSLC]

The nerf to OS was due to PvE. That is completely unrelated to OS's uses in PvP. No one in their right mind ever uses OS "rotationally" because in PvP people can just run out of it. Believe it or not, the 60% nerf to OS's damage actually nerfed sniper's survivability in PvP. Snipers would put OS on top of themselves and melee enemies would have to decided whether they should attack the sniper anyway and eat the OS damage (which could tick for around 7k in engineering) or if they should attack a different target. This meant that snipers weren't always the 1st target to be focused in arenas because it was suicide for a melee team to just stand in the OS.

 

I know why you say the flashbang nerf was good, because an instant aoe mezz with a 30m range was OP. But again it nerfed snipers' survivability. Before the nerf, if you had 2, 3 or 4 melee dps up your arse you could flashbang them all and have time to reposition. I wish they would reduce the range of flashbang and give back the aoe bit. At a time when snipers need more survivability it's annoying that they nerfed it

 

This is truth, plz un-nerf OS. Yes, I think 10m range aoe flashbang would be better, but assuming 30m range, the aoe removal was good.